Not Sure If Anyone Here Can Help...

[FayeW]

This is my first post on this board, and I'm not sure if it is the right place to be because I am not sure if this is classified as a disability, per se.

My 14 yr old daughter has ADHD, however she does very well with her medication and we have seen a huge improvement in her overall well being in the last year. However, she has some other social or emotional problems, not really sure how to classify it, but she seems to have alot of fear and anxiety, and I don't know how to help her. Her anxiety seems to stem from new situations. She doesn't handle change well at all, and was very worried about starting high school this past September. I pick up her best friend every morning so the two of them can walk into the school together, and she seems to have adjusted, but a couple of times I had to take her back to school by herself to pick up something she forgot at her locker and to drop off something to a teacher, and she was nearly paralyzed with fear at having to go in to the school alone. I forced her to do it, thinking that once she did it the first time and saw that everything was fine, she would be okay, but the second time was just as bad.

Today we were at the grocery store and I asked her to go about 50 feet down the same aisle to grab some milk and again she became distraught and begged me not to make her do it. I asked her what was wrong and she was afraid she would see somebody she knew (this has been an ongoing problem for her, running into friends at the mall and being terrified to speak to them.) Again, I made her do it and tried to talk with her about it after but she is furious with me and feels she can't trust me.

I don't know what to do. At 14, I think that she needs to learn how to cope with basic things, like being able to go into a store and pick up some milk. Most of the kids in her grade are taking the city busses to school and in another year or two she will be able to get a part time job and be able to get her driver's license. She seems fine if she is out with her friend at the mall and they stop and order a drink or fries at the food court, but I want to help her get over these fears because they are paralyzing her.

I hope that someday she will see that I am not trying to be cruel to her, I am trying to do what's best for her by helping her overcome this (repetition and familiarity) but I don't know if I am doing the right thing. She did see a psychologist for about 8 months but it didn't really help because she wasn't honest with the doctor. She would over exaggerated any of the negative things and completely ignore all the good, positive stuff (she told her psychologist that she spent hardly any time with friends outside of school and I reminded her that she had either had friends over or been to their houses at least once a week for about 6 weeks in a row. She also completely failed to mention that she had started taking horseback riding lessons and had been taking them for about 5 months!). The psychologist can't help her if she isn't honest with her, and it seemed like she only wanted to dwell on the bad stuff (fight with a friend, etc).

Does anybody have any experience with something like this? I am just really scared for how she is going to function independently as an adult if she is held hostage by fear about everyday things.

 

[kaffinito]

The only thing that I can say to you - and this is from personal experience - is that it takes time. I spent most of my young adulthood paralyzed by fears of one sort or another. I was also having a lot of difficulty focusing and just being "present" in my own life. It seemed to me that a lot of my life was in a foggy hazy state, where I either wasn't aware of what was going on around me, or didn't understand what was going on around me. Those latter times caused me a lot of fear. We all fear what we don't understand.

I had a few friends too, and I also had parents who pushed me to be more like other kids. They wanted me to be more independent and more capable of doing everyday small things. They never understood, and I couldn't either, why the little things we do in life would cause me a lot of fear and anxiety, and later on panic attacks.

It took me a long time to understand that what I really feared was not the odd social situation, or the life situation that I didn't know how to do, but the fear itself. Fear can paralyze you if you let it. Once you begin to understand that it's really just a fear of the fear, then you can begin to do the small things.

I was also ADHD as a kid, although back in those days no one knew about that. And, as it turned out, I was also autistic. I didn't even know I was autistic until I was taking a scored test to see if my oldest son was autistic, and I scored a lot higher on the spectrum than he did!

Part of what your daughter might be going through is just normal teenage stuff. The "happy hormones" play havoc on our brain chemistry.

This part is meant in a nice way, so I apologize in advance if it sounds snarky. But why not back off and let your daughter grow and mature at her own pace? She just might need some space and room to grow in her own way into her own person.

Also, a brief comment on honesty. It takes a lot of trust to be able to be fully honest with a mental health professional. Maybe your daughter was not sure of the person she was seeing, and so only gave a partial truth. How many of us gives the whole honest truth to someone when they don't even know them? Also, please keep in mind that we all have own own truths, and that her truth is not going to be the same as your truth. Truth can be as subjective as beauty.

Hope this helped in part. And I hope I didn't sound too rude or too snarky. I don't mean to offend, just to give you some insight as to possible reasons for your daughters change in attitude and mood.

Best of luck to you!

 

[FayeW]

Thank you kaffinitio, I did not find your post rude or offensive at all! It really helped me because it sounds like you were exactly like my daughter. I think you could really help me to understand what my daughter is going through.

She had a situation with a couple of former friends, and she was absolutely obsessed with it. When she went to her therapist that is all that she would talk about, she was completely fixated on it. She really loved her therapist, and kept asking to go back, but I think mostly it was because she could devote the entire hour to the "drama" of this friend situation, because I had gotten fed up with it months before.

I told her today that I understand that her fears are very real to her, but that they are also unfounded, and that I was just trying to help her so that she wouldn't be held hostage by these irrational fears. I asked her to think of the worst thing that would happen, and figure out how she would deal with it so she would be prepared. That technique has worked for her in the past.

I guess what I am afraid of is that if I indulge by going in to the school with her,etc that I am doing her an injustice, and just making it harder for her to deal with the real world situations later on. I don't want to handicap her by allowing her to be so dependant on me that she can't or won't function independantly.

Am I making any sense? I just want to make the right choices to help her later on. I don't want to enable her and make it worse.

ETA: What you described as feeling like you were in a haze and not really present in your own life is exactly what my daughter described to me. How or when did that feeling subside? What helped you?

 

[debbi801]

Has she been dx'd with any type of anxiety disorder? You mentioned that she was on meds for the ADHD, is she on any meds or getting any therapy for her fears and anxiety?

If so, has her therapist mentioned that this was a good way to help her overcome these fears? My concern is that you could possibly be making things worse while trying to make them better. If she's not getting therapy for this, I would start off by doing so.

It is so hard to know what is the best line of attack. My 6 yr old DS is dx'd with Asperger's Syndrome, and he has huge anxiety issues. We just started him on meds to help a bit while we work on therapies, trying to change his school,e tc. His anxiety was debilitating to him prior to meds and they really seem to be helping him cope. But even now, I never know what might set off an anxiety attack. And, something that doesn't bother him today, might seriously bother him tomorrow. So, I can understand totally where you're coming from.

 

[FayeW]

Has she been dx'd with any type of anxiety disorder? You mentioned that she was on meds for the ADHD, is she on any meds or getting any therapy for her fears and anxiety?

If so, has her therapist mentioned that this was a good way to help her overcome these fears? My concern is that you could possibly be making things worse while trying to make them better. If she's not getting therapy for this, I would start off by doing so.

It is so hard to know what is the best line of attack. My 6 yr old DS is dx'd with Asperger's Syndrome, and he has huge anxiety issues. We just started him on meds to help a bit while we work on therapies, trying to change his school,e tc. His anxiety was debilitating to him prior to meds and they really seem to be helping him cope. But even now, I never know what might set off an anxiety attack. And, something that doesn't bother him today, might seriously bother him tomorrow. So, I can understand totally where you're coming from.

No, no diagnosis, but she was seeing a therapist for awhile. The reason I started taking her to the psychologist was because I wanted her to learn some coping strategies for her anxieties. The problem was that she wouldn't do the "homework" i.e. practice the coping techniques, keep the journal etc. All she wanted to do was talk about this fight she had had with her former best friend. I felt like we weren't getting anywhere and she was just obsessing on the friends. The therapist wasn't giving us any feedback on what we could do to help her, and she wasn't learning the coping strategies. There has been so much improvement in the last year, but then new fears seem to crop up.

 

[bookwormde]

It would probably be good to get a competent clinician to check her “style” of social skills (innate, theatric or intellectual). If it is either of the latter 2 she may have a few of the neurovariant characteristics that are part of the Autism spectrum. This would immediately explain her anxiety. If this is the case just you and her understanding and becoming educated about this variation will help a lot. While the anxiety may be a situation unto itself (either from physiological or environmental factors), there is a reasonable chance that when combined with the ADHD diagnosis (which is often a coincident factor or a misdiagnosis of the executive function issues that are coming along with autism spectrum characteristic) that she may be somewhere on the sub clinical level of the Autism spectrum (it is very common for clinicians to miss this in girls).

I would suggest reading Tony Atwood’s book The Complete Guide to Aspergers (available on Amazon for about $25). Even if she does not have spectrum characteristics it give a good perspective on neurological variations, which causes issues with the interface into neurotypical society.

The good news is if the anxiety it is a co morbidity of Autism spectrum it can be greatly reduced in a short period of time by the use of proper supports and social skills training. It would also be very helpful information for any competent therapist since there are very different therapy techniques for individuals with spectrum characteristics.

bookwormde

 

[asdmomx3]

Wow. Thank you Kaffinito, so much for your insight. I was getting ready to respond myself to this mom and read yours and learned a lot! I have 3 children with autism, 10, 8 & 6 and one child (4) not on the spectrum. Hearing that perspective from someone who knows is really helpful.
Thank you for sharing!

 

[mechurchlady]

It could be SID also. Bookworm has good advice. First you have to know all of your daughter's quirks such as SID or one of many other disorders aka quirks. You cannot solve a problem until you know the facts. It is like having a sore spot on a foot. Is it an allergic reaction, a seam on the shoe, did you forget to rinse the laundry, or maybe a bad habit? Putting a band aid on the sore will not solve the problem. You need to know the cause of the problem.

I recently figured out that I have SID. I have had it all my life but never knew why I was so different. I just paid the bills today and was 12 days late. I can tell you that all the screaming, possible loss of heat and light, and encouragement did not get me to do the bills. I just could not do it because it overwhelms me and the fear of things going wrong like the bank site turning off after 10 minutes of inactivity. YOU CANNOT MAKE ME DO THE BILLS.

That said I can tell you that if a person has a fear then you can do harm to their psyche, moral, and mental well being plus not help the situation. It takes baby steps. The fear to an outsider may be deemed not possible, illogical, ludicrous, or crazy but to the person with the fears them fears are real. I have panic attacks over my computer fritzing on me but to other people they are like um you got to be kidding as it is just a computer and you can get online elsewhere.

You have to work slowly on building her social skills. I do not handle change at all but with time I cotton on to new ideas and people. It takes time for me to adjust. My sworn enemy is now my chat buddy. My obnoxious neighbor is ok. I hated the new game changes but now have adjusted. For those of us who do not handle change well we need time to slowly adjust.

Negativity is another SID thing for me and my mother also helped on that. I can remember so many sins against me. I have been working for years to fight my gloomy gus attitude. I complain and whine and gripe a lot even though I know I should count my blessings. This is a trait that is normal for people at times but could be a sign of SID or some other quirk. It takes self awareness and training and a lot of reinforcement from friends. I have had friends help me by refocussing a discussion away from my negativity and have asked me what is good today. I have to remind myself to talk about good things.

Lying to a psychiatrist is not true. She is focusing on negative stuff as that is her nature. Having friends over once a week is not that much especially to a teen girl who hears about the parties and stuff that other teens do. I say I have no friends but there is Calvin and my online friends but for me I have none. For people that are pessimists they see and list first the bad stuff then the good. She was honest because to her she has few friends compared to the cheerleaders at school for example. I bet the negative stuff is bothering her and she wants to tell the Psychiatrist about those things as us negative people tend to want to talk about the stuff that hurts us.

OMG you got a teen aged daughter. That in itself is a whole mess that can cause gray hairs. The teen girls I see online are so peer conscious, melodramatic, over react to the slightest dissing, self conscious, and often do not realize that they are too young to be date hunting and boy crazy.

I hope nobody yells at me for my opinions. I do think the first step is to get to the root of her problems. Then sort out what is typical teen aged girl stuff and what is from her quirks. A defiant teen should be made to march into school but a teen with SID or anxiety problems may need mom to take her 95% of the way the first time then slowly back off as the teen gets comfortable.

Your daughter can go to a public place with her friend, take care of her hygiene, is getting educated, can read and write, and will in time be able to live on her own or in a group home. WHAT A GREAT MOM TO GET A KID THAT FAR. Look at other kids with disabilities and then your daughter. See how she is so independent and how far she can still go. You have done a great job with your daughter and count your blessings, name them one by one. I love that song, count your blesssings.
Congratulations on a great kid.

 

[asdmomx3]

Faye,

I have 3 children on the autism spectrum, ages 10, 8, 6, so we're not in the teen age years yet. I know your daughter does not have Autism but there are many similaries in the adhd/autism disorders. I was just going to share with you about something we've recently looked into and are doing -- RDI - Relationship Development Intervention by Dr. Alan Guttstein. It is designed for children with autism however, some of the things you mention really rang true with what i've heard him lecture about -- the uncertainty and fear of your surroundings, etc. and how to help them get over it. I don't know if it will help but thought I'd mention it.

I don't know if you've ever looked into this or not - its a common route for children with autism but changing diets can make a difference if your daughter has allergies to certain foods. And I don't mean the normal allergic reactions -- these are reactions you can't see, and usually told only by blood tests. But one of our sons is actually allergic to wheat, corn and dairy -- he had no outwards signs of the allergies. After we removed these foods from his diet, he became more social and actually started to "get" social skills we had tried, without success, to teach him previously.

Hope this helps!

 

[FayeW]

Thanks for all the helpful advice, I will definitely look into some of these books that have been recommended.

I am going to give a little more detail into some other things we have noticed over the years. For one, she has horrible penmanship. She has a very odd way of twisting her hands when she holds things like her hairbrush, etc. so it's almost like she has problems with dexterity or fine motor movements, but she doesn't really because she can type and use scizzors just fine, do crafts and things. When she was younger, she would often hold her arms stiffly, and hold her hands with her fingers stiff and straight together, but bent at the knuckles almost like paws. Imagine a prairie dog sitting up on it's hind legs...that's what she looked like.This was mostly if she was in a situation where she was the center of attention, like getting called up to receive an award from the teacher, etc.

Do the motor movements or hand gestures mean anything to anybody? Are they indicative of anything?

 

[mechurchlady]

It could be any of a myriad of things.

http://www.sensorysmarts.com/signs.html
This site lists and talks about SID which is sensory issues which can involve many things of which a few your daughter has but not enough for me to say definitely that is it as it could be a lot of things. This is why she needs to get a proper diagnosis. Some doctors just slap some letters on a kid and that solves the problem like ADD and ADHD or even autism. A little kid may avoid eye contact with an ugly scary doctor or a kid who had allergies might be deemed as having exzema and low attention span.

I am a person who does not like doctors.

 

[bookwormde]

Fine motor skills deficits and reduced coordination and dexterity are a couple of the common spectrum characteristics which often self resolve or improve quickly with OT therapy. One other thing to look for in this area is that a lot of individuals do not have a left/right innate preference (descrimination) so when beginning something completely new may try to do non “right handed”. This is also the reason that many spectrum individuals have a hard time telling right from left. Of course there can be other things that can cause the characteristic you describe so it really takes a full evaluation to get a correct picture.

By the way welcome to the disabilites community board

bookwormde

 

[kaffinito]

I told her today that I understand that her fears are very real to her, but that they are also unfounded, and that I was just trying to help her so that she wouldn't be held hostage by these irrational fears. I asked her to think of the worst thing that would happen, and figure out how she would deal with it so she would be prepared. That technique has worked for her in the past.

I guess what I am afraid of is that if I indulge by going in to the school with her,etc that I am doing her an injustice, and just making it harder for her to deal with the real world situations later on. I don't want to handicap her by allowing her to be so dependant on me that she can't or won't function independantly.

Am I making any sense? I just want to make the right choices to help her later on. I don't want to enable her and make it worse.

ETA: What you described as feeling like you were in a haze and not really present in your own life is exactly what my daughter described to me. How or when did that feeling subside? What helped you?

Faye,

You are making perfect sense, and your daughter is lucky to have such a caring and concerned mother! First off, to the person who has those fears, the fear is not unfounded. It is very real to them, as you have acknowledged. Saying that her fears are unfounded is another way of dismissing them as unimportant. Perhaps if you give her fears the weight and importance that they deserve (being that they are hers) they might subside.

As far as your daughter being dependent on you, maybe that's what she needs right now. She is just entering the decade of the "happy hormones" and let me tell you that you are blessed that your daughter trusts you enough to depend on you! I have to be honest to, that my parents helped me through life for a very long time.

One of my proudest days was when, at the age of 40, I was able to figure out how to get car insurance. I was so proud of that insurance certificate that I showed it to a lot of people, before I figured out that they might think that that was odd behavior. I'm still very proud of doing that, because for years my Dad had to help me purchase it. I just couldn't seem to get the hang of buying it. So you see, a little dependence now might go a long way towards heading off future dependence. My parents pushed me a lot and I just ended up getting worse.

As far as the haze goes. It finally went away about 10 years ago and I have been scrambling since then to catch up with life. I'm really functional now, and it's very hard to tell that I am anything other than "normal" Little things give me away sometimes, but I am very careful to try to act/speak/write just like everyone else. I think part of the haze had to do with my being bi-polar, and part had to do with my being autistic.

I am going to give a little more detail into some other things we have noticed over the years. For one, she has horrible penmanship. She has a very odd way of twisting her hands when she holds things like her hairbrush, etc. so it's almost like she has problems with dexterity or fine motor movements, but she doesn't really because she can type and use scizzors just fine, do crafts and things. When she was younger, she would often hold her arms stiffly, and hold her hands with her fingers stiff and straight together, but bent at the knuckles almost like paws. Imagine a prairie dog sitting up on it's hind legs...that's what she looked like.This was mostly if she was in a situation where she was the center of attention, like getting called up to receive an award from the teacher, etc.

Do the motor movements or hand gestures mean anything to anybody? Are they indicative of anything?

As far as penmanship goes, mine is really awful too! I can't hold the pen right, I hold it and write like a left hander with my right hand. I've tried, but I can't hold it the way you're supposed to. I'm an artist, so I have no problems with other fine motor skills either. I do not have the arm movements, but I do have a habit of rubbing my fingernails together, almost like flicking them. When I get really agitated, especially when I have an off day, I do sometimes rock and flap. It's horribly embarrassing though, and I really try hard not to do that in public.

However, those things that you have noticed do not indicate anything to me other than a personal quirk. Especially since she has ADHD, the prairie dog arm gestures might be her way of focusing in on the person who is engaging her. It might have been her way of not "losing" what the person was trying to convey to her. It might also have been her way of holding herself in check. For example, to hold myself in check, I sit on my hands. That keeps me from clicking or from rocking.

Just be patient with her, and know that you are doing all of the right things as a mother. None of us want to see our children upset or suffering, and none of us wants to see our kids backslide into younger behaviors. Please try to understand that her world is changing rapidly, and that a lot of those changes are happening inside of her. Maybe let her go back to that therapist, and let her talk about her breakup with her friend. That seems to have had a tremendous impact on her, and maybe she should spend more time working her way through that episode so she can understand what it really means to her. Sometimes an event doesn't really mean what we think it means, right? Keep your chin up!

 

[disneydeb]

it almost sounds like she's having panic attacks and agorophobia, i would get her checked for this first, the other thing you can do is role playing where she can practice with you before she has to do something she perceives as unpleasant . hope this helps.

 

[ktwheelz]

FayeW,
I'm sorry to hear that your daughter is struggling. I'm a psychology major in my last year of undergrad and have many friends who have dealt with similar issues. I was wondering if it might help if you could find a mental health professional who takes an eclectic approach to treatment (that is to say that they use a variety of methods)? That way, they could start by meeting your daughter wherever she is (more of a client-centered philosophy) and gradually work toward a more cognitive-behaviorally-based treatment (the homework, journaling,etc.)
Also, you may want to look into a treatment called systematic desensitization that would help your daughter overcome her fears in a gradual, rational, and positive manner.
I hope this helps!
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions!
-ktwheelz