Not educating child

[herdtoDisney]

I don't think I was clear. I was asking how being asked to submit yearly homeschool evidence or yearly test scores could be compared to multiple random 2am welfare checks that the post I quoted was describing. I don't think they are at all comparable.

There is a big difference between a parent making a portfolio, and a child having to take yearly state tests geared to a curriculum he/she most likely doesn't follow! These are two different things.

 

[rhino78]

As soon as you prove to me using studies and statistics that homeschoolers don't need any form of oversight. I am not wasting that kind of time on what YOU want to me to do just so you can continue to attemtp to use what I am saying agianst me. I just don't care that much about your opinion. I'm not in 7th grade anyomore. This is the LAST time I am responding to you. It is pointless.

To me ONE child not being educated is too many, and if a simple submission of test scores or other evidence can help prevent that, then I don't understand why it is such a big deal UNLESS you have something to hide.

I think you have this whole thing backwards. To me, it makes no sense to go after homeschooling parents who might not be educating their children when we know it happens in public school all the time. Don't you think the government should fix that first?

It's a much bigger crime that kids GRADUATE from high school who can't read. Let's take care of that before we start chasing shadows. It doesn't make any sense to try and fix a problem we don't know exists instead of focusing on the ones we do know.

As for studies and statistics, just minimal searching turned up half a dozen studies that found homeschooled children generally score better on SAT and ACT that their public school counterparts. One had over 20 thousand kids in it.

 

[punkin]

Then you have a very poor example of a school, and I would definitley be worknig to change that. It has not been my experience at all with public schools.

The school keeps winning awards though....

 

[knitster]

I think you have this whole thing backwards. To me, it makes no sense to go after homeschooling parents who might not be educating their children when we know it happens in public school all the time. Don't you think the government should fix that first?

It's a much bigger crime that kids GRADUATE from high school who can't read. Let's take care of that before we start chasing shadows. It doesn't make any sense to try and fix a problem we don't know exists instead of focusing on the ones we do know.

As for studies and statistics, just minimal searching turned up half a dozen studies that found homeschooled children generally score better on SAT and ACT that their public school counterparts. One had over 20 thousand kids in it.

Exactly!

 

[skater]

I think you have this whole thing backwards. To me, it makes no sense to go after homeschooling parents who might not be educating their children when we know it happens in public school all the time. Don't you think the government should fix that first?

It's a much bigger crime that kids GRADUATE from high school who can't read. Let's take care of that before we start chasing shadows. It doesn't make any sense to try and fix a problem we don't know exists instead of focusing on the ones we do know.

As for studies and statistics, just minimal searching turned up half a dozen studies that found homeschooled children generally score better on SAT and ACT that their public school counterparts. One had over 20 thousand kids in it.

This is what I've been trying to say - thanks for saying it better than me! In fact, I once spoke with a man who grades the writing portion of the SAT. He said that homeschoolers are expected to score higher than public schooled children and if they don't, its a handicap. I'm not sure if that's true, but it was interesting. Again, I'm not bashing public schools - I think education success has more to do with parents than anything else. Still, I believe homeschooling works very well with families who care about their children.

 

[princessmom29]

I think you have this whole thing backwards. To me, it makes no sense to go after homeschooling parents who might not be educating their children when we know it happens in public school all the time. Don't you think the government should fix that first?

It's a much bigger crime that kids GRADUATE from high school who can't read. Let's take care of that before we start chasing shadows. It doesn't make any sense to try and fix a problem we don't know exists instead of focusing on the ones we do know.

As for studies and statistics, just minimal searching turned up half a dozen studies that found homeschooled children generally score better on SAT and ACT that their public school counterparts. One had over 20 thousand kids in it.

I have never actually met one of those mythical high school grads, students who actually GRADUATED, not got a certificate or dropped out, that cannot read. I live in Alabama, admittedly not the best state for education, and we require a basic skills test to graduate. You CANNOT get a high school diploma without demonstating basic language, reading, math, science, and social studies knowledge. If you really cannot read, there is NO WAY you could pass that test unless you cheated. I have said it before and i will say it agian. I think ALL students, homeschool, public school, private school, wherever they are educated need to be evaluated in some way to ensure they are indeed getting an education. Problems that show up need to be fixed. Fixing the problems of public school students would first involve fixing thier parents in many cases. Thier total lack of envolvment and negative attitude toward schools and education in general does little to help thier children. Until thier parents care about thier education, nothing will change. No one seems to be willing to admit that this is a large part of the problem however. Until we are willing to admit that the schools are NOT entirely at fault and look at a holistc solution that includes the family, it will not change no matter WHAT we do within the schools.The other large part of the public school problem is NCLB and the unrealistic expectations it puts forth. A child with an IQ of 50 will never be proficient in algebra, yet schools are expected to have EVERYONE perform on grade level. They are set up to fail. They teach to the test in a vain attempt to make it to the unattianable.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I am not sure I understand the liberties you would be losing if a state started mandating some oversight. I read your states requirements for home schooling and it appears Virginia home schoolers already fall under the oversight that has been advocated in this thread but that you are claiming is unconstitutional. The superintendent of the school district even has final say to accept the evaluation of home schooled children.
It seems to me you are arguing what you think should be rather than what has been ruled by the supreme court. I am not interested in debating theories either which is why I asked some of the posters to show me where these constitutional rights for home schoolers have been ruled on.

I never claimed oversight wasn't necessary.

I simply claimed that mandated testing wasn't the only way nor is their constitutional backing that it is the only way.

To the underlined, if you had read the statute, you would have read that is ONLY for the 4th option. It isn't for the 2nd option. This portion of the statute I posted is only for the annual reporting of progress.

What is also missing is the portion of the statute where I decide HOW I wish to declare my homeschooling. There is an exemption that is available and protected by the first amendment. Absolutely no reporting required. For my own reasons, I have not gone with that exemption. But it certainly is available AND constitutionally protected. For them to remove it would require an uphill battle that would likely be lost. So no..it isn't what I "think". It is what I "know".

And since all 50 states are different..that is what I "know" for the two states I have resided in. So early hypotheses that testing will soon happen all over are simply not true.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I have never actually met one of those mythical high school grads, students who actually GRADUATED, not got a certificate or dropped out, that cannot read. I live in Alabama, admittedly not the best state for education, and we require a basic skills test to graduate. You CANNOT get a high school diploma without demonstating basic language, reading, math, science, and social studies knowledge. If you really cannot read, there is NO WAY you could pass that test unless you cheated. I have said it before and i will say it agian. I think ALL students, homeschool, public school, private school, wherever they are educated need to be evaluated in some way to ensure they are indeed getting an education. Problems that show up need to be fixed. Fixing the problems of public school students would first involve fixing thier parents in many cases. Thier total lack of envolvment and negative attitude toward schools and education in general does little to help thier children. Until thier parents care about thier education, nothing will change. No one seems to be willing to admit that this is a large part of the problem however. Until we are willing to admit that the schools are NOT entirely at fault and look at a holistc solution that includes the family, it will not change no matter WHAT we do within the schools.The other large part of the public school problem is NCLB and the unrealistic expectations it puts forth. A child with an IQ of 50 will never be proficient in algebra, yet schools are expected to have EVERYONE perform on grade level. They are set up to fail. They teach to the test in a vain attempt to make it to the unattianable.

Funny--I have never met a homeschooler graduate homeschool who couldn't read.

And for an actual public school student, there have been documented cases. Whether or not they cheated, who on earth knows. But one was a football player who went on to the NFL. His name escapes me, but it was tossed out on some other thread a while back.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_n12_v44/ai_8010811/
Dexter Manley.

From that prior thread--it seems that "tutoring" "helps" football players in those situations.

Perhaps we should ban football programs since they had one who managed to escape uneducated.

 

[Nancy for Disney]

Yes all calls are investigated and a home visit with contact of all children involved is made within 24 hours. Even the ones that come in with only a lisence plate number or a street number with no names

Sorry, I know we are getting off topic but....

Wow, still amazed. CPS will go out even if the concern is that the dad was 20 minutes late dropping of the kid after visitation? Even if the concern was the father wants the kids to flush the toilet every other time during his weekend visits and now when they are forgetting to flush the toilet when they are with their mother? How about that the parent is leaving the kiddo to be watched by someone the grandparent doesn't know but they are aware of no problems this person has had in caring for the child? A CPS worker will go out on that?

In my state we do go out if we only have directions or a license plate. We don't require names, just a way to locate the child.

 

[princessmom29]

There is a big difference between a parent making a portfolio, and a child having to take yearly state tests geared to a curriculum he/she most likely doesn't follow! These are two different things.

good standarized tests are NOT geared to a particular curriculum. They are designed to test grade level standards ALL students should meet, even homeschool students. They would measure thier progress just as they would for any other student on any of the many curricula used in different states.

 

[book_junkie]

I have never actually met one of those mythical high school grads, students who actually GRADUATED, not got a certificate or dropped out, that cannot read.

I have (both different people, graduates holding diplomas not able to read a basic "learning to read"/ reader book nor able read on the level supposedly needed to pass the high school exams), and I'm in Texas, where we have state mandated skills exams as well. And not just athletes, either.

 

[Disneynut5]

Without reading pages and pages of this thread - here is my take. If your state allows unaccredited private schools to exist with no state oversight, then homeschoolers should also enjoy the same freedom. If John Doe can set up a school and teach other people's children with no state regulations, then one should be able to do the same with their own children. This is the case in Texas where I live and homeschool.

Every form of education - private, homeschool, or public will have failures and children who fall through the cracks. But studies show that homeschoolers consistently do better than public school children as a whole. Colleges are even starting to recruit homeschool students because they have a lower rate of dropping out of college once they begin.

I also believe in total parental rights - the state should have no right to tell me how to raise or educate my child. For this reason I do not support any laws that force regulations on homeschooling. I also do not support other laws that undermind parental control such as mandatory vaccinations or allowing medical procedure without parental knowledge and consent.

I am blessed to live in the great state of Texas where homeschoolers and private schools face no state regulation. I would not want to live anywhere else!

 

[knitster]

Without reading pages and pages of this thread - here is my take. If your state allows unaccredited private schools to exist with no state oversight, then homeschoolers should also enjoy the same freedom. If John Doe can set up a school and teach other people's children with no state regulations, then one should be able to do the same with their own children. This is the case in Texas where I live and homeschool.

Every form of education - private, homeschool, or public will have failures and children who fall through the cracks. But studies show that homeschoolers consistently do better than public school children as a whole. Colleges are even starting to recruit homeschool students because they have a lower rate of dropping out of college once they begin.

I also believe in total parental rights - the state should have no right to tell me how to raise or educate my child. For this reason I do not support any laws that force regulations on homeschooling. I also do not support other laws that undermind parental control such as mandatory vaccinations or allowing medical procedure without parental knowledge and consent.

I am blessed to live in the great state of Texas where homeschoolers and private schools face no state regulation. I would not want to live anywhere else!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaamen! I could not have said it better myself!

 

[npmommie]

Without reading pages and pages of this thread - here is my take. If your state allows unaccredited private schools to exist with no state oversight, then homeschoolers should also enjoy the same freedom. If John Doe can set up a school and teach other people's children with no state regulations, then one should be able to do the same with their own children. This is the case in Texas where I live and homeschool.

Every form of education - private, homeschool, or public will have failures and children who fall through the cracks. But studies show that homeschoolers consistently do better than public school children as a whole. Colleges are even starting to recruit homeschool students because they have a lower rate of dropping out of college once they begin.

I also believe in total parental rights - the state should have no right to tell me how to raise or educate my child. For this reason I do not support any laws that force regulations on homeschooling. I also do not support other laws that undermind parental control such as mandatory vaccinations or allowing medical procedure without parental knowledge and consent.

I am blessed to live in the great state of Texas where homeschoolers and private schools face no state regulation. I would not want to live anywhere else!