Not educating child

[Lisa loves Pooh]

My question was sincere and since people keep quoting what is or is not constitutional I thought that maybe someone in this thread had some facts and could help.
I Googled as you suggested (was the "knock your self out" necessary?) and from what I can see many states do have laws that regulate home schooling including testing and the supreme court has ruled that it is constitutional.
No one has said home school should replicate public school only that there is a chance for abuse like the OP talked about.

Sorry--I wasn't intending to be snarky. "Knock yourself out" wasn't meant to be disrpectful, though I can certainly see how it can be.

I just got into a discussion regarding all of that topic on another thread and don't have the time or energy for that cerebral of a discussion.

The thing about testing is that there are 50 states with 50 different sets of laws. In states where testing is not the ONLY method of checks and balances, it will never be.

We can't be so militant in requirements at the expense of liberty to protect everyone without just cause.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

health care , education, nursing homes, hospice care, day cares. ALL subject to random inspection. You cannot take a baby home from the hospital without a car seat. The hospital MUST check it. I personally think it is a GREAT idea to insure proper living environment before the child goes home as well. Itwould prevent a LOT of child deaths.

Licensed facilities?

Private homes are not licensed and not subject to additional scrutiny as a condition of citizenship.

And not all hospitals "check". They just want you to have one. But they don't typically have licensed car seat safety experts (whatever they are called) to back sure baby is strapped in correctly or that the base is correct in the car.

Public facilities that cater to the public are not citizens. You cannot compare the two when it comes to unwarranted visits for a home visit.

Your posts are getting stranger and stranger with the lengths you will allow the government to go to to ensure that a child is safe.

FTR--I report what I see, if I see it. I have called 911 and followed a vehicle that had their children in an unsafe situation in their vehicle. In that moment, the children were in danger.

I would not support a daily certified inspection of how we are all restrained in my vehicle as a condition of the privilege of driving. Not enough resources and very unnecessary in the grand scheme.

If I am not mistaken--you were on the co-sleeping thread as well. I believe you (and if it isn't--I apologize) had nothing against those who co-slept but are screaming from the hill tops that it is unsafe in all circumstances. I understand more clearly now about where you stand on matters when it comes to child rearing.

Would you be in favor of testing for competancy before allowing to have children at all?

 

[dis-happy]

health care , education, nursing homes, hospice care, day cares. ALL subject to random inspection. You cannot take a baby home from the hospital without a car seat. The hospital MUST check it. I personally think it is a GREAT idea to insure proper living environment before the child goes home as well. Itwould prevent a LOT of child deaths.

You could have a home birth and not worry about what the hospital says about car seats.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Really? Was the Patriot Act repealed and no one told me?

Okay--except for that...

 

[Wadekind]

Sorry--I wasn't intending to be snarky. "Knock yourself out" wasn't meant to be disrpectful, though I can certainly see how it can be.

I just got into a discussion regarding all of that topic on another thread and don't have the time or energy for that cerebral of a discussion.

The thing about testing is that there are 50 states with 50 different sets of laws. In states where testing is not the ONLY method of checks and balances, it will never be.

We can't be so militant in requirements at the expense of liberty to protect everyone without just cause.

I am not sure I understand the liberties you would be losing if a state started mandating some oversight. I read your states requirements for home schooling and it appears Virginia home schoolers already fall under the oversight that has been advocated in this thread but that you are claiming is unconstitutional. The superintendent of the school district even has final say to accept the evaluation of home schooled children.
It seems to me you are arguing what you think should be rather than what has been ruled by the supreme court. I am not interested in debating theories either which is why I asked some of the posters to show me where these constitutional rights for home schoolers have been ruled on.

 

[knitster]

Shall we debate the constitutional validity if the patriot act? That'll be fun!

Lisa said everything I was going to say, so I won't restate it. I will, however, say, that I give birth at home, therefor, the government doesn't get to tell me what I can cannotdo with my child. And my car seat standards far exceed those set forth by the government.

 

[herdtoDisney]

Asking for a test once or twice a year is an unnecessary burden? Really? An unnecessary burden on everyone is when any child goes into adulthood undereducated.
When someone chooses to educate on their own it should not exempt them from proving they are actually doing it. We demand accountability from public and private schools why not for home schools? I am not saying you shouldn't home school. I am saying I won't take just your word that your child is being educated. People do lie, the OP's situation reinforces this for me.

In my state, the guidelines say that the parent makes a portfolio with samples of work. That is 'proof'. The state does not get to decide what goes in it or 'approve' it or not.

Whether or not YOU take my word is irrelevant. I'M the parent and I paid for the educational materials, so I don't owe you anything

And sadly, there are children who DID take plenty of standardized tests, that went into adulthood uneducated

 

[herdtoDisney]

health care , education, nursing homes, hospice care, day cares. ALL subject to random inspection. You cannot take a baby home from the hospital without a car seat. The hospital MUST check it. I personally think it is a GREAT idea to insure proper living environment before the child goes home as well. Itwould prevent a LOT of child deaths.

Maybe we should just microchip the babies, like we do with dogs Who gets to decide what a 'proper living environment' is? That is a pretty broad standard. What if someone had an issue with YOUR living environment?

And you can leave the hospital without a carseat if you aren't driving-people do live near hospitals! You need the carseat if you are leaving in a CAR. But people do use other ways to get home you know.

 

[Wadekind]

In my state, the guidelines say that the parent makes a portfolio with samples of work. That is 'proof'. The state does not get to decide what goes in it or 'approve' it or not.

Whether or not YOU take my word is irrelevant. I'M the parent and I paid for the educational materials, so I don't owe you anything

And sadly, there are children who DID take plenty of standardized tests, that went into adulthood uneducated

Your state does require you to teach certain subjects. Asking that your child be evaluated to show that they have been taught these subjects and is competent is not unreasonable.

 

[herdtoDisney]

Your state does require you to teach certain subjects. Asking that your child be evaluated to show that they have been taught these subjects and is competent is not unreasonable.

My state does not require the CHILD to be evaluated, like I said above-my state has the parent make a portfolio with samples of the work, of the required subjects. The purpose of the portfolio is to show that the child is being educated, which is the law. Not to prove competency.

And actually, I DO think it is unreasonable to evaluate the child and to show competency. Who gets to decide what competency is and when it should occur? If I have chosen to take on the responsibility of educating my own child, then I get the right to decide that. If I want the state to decide that, then I send my children to public school to be educated (which I have, like I mentioned).

 

[skater]

Why in the world would you do that? Why not just give him more examples of the skills he has NOT mastered rather than haivng him redo problems he got RIGHT?

Sorry - I worded it wrong - he only has to re-do the problems he got wrong .

 

[skater]

Exactly, It is sad but true that parents are often the LAST to recognize that something isn't right becuase they don't want to believe that it could happen to THIER child. I have seen situations similar to more often than I care for. The school says there is something going on and the child needs to be tested. Mom promptly pulls them out to homeschool becuase the school couldn't possibly be right, and they know their child better than anyone at school possibly could. THEY don't see it, but it is there nonetheless. Fast forward to high school or college and the parent is finally forced to admit there is a problem, years too late.

This is not what I've seen played out. Also, the BOE staff who oversee homeschoolers in my county are very impressed with most families they review. Colleges we've spoken to are excited about homeschoolers. I just don't think you have enough facts to back up your claims.

 

[Wadekind]

My state does not require the CHILD to be evaluated, like I said above-my state has the parent make a portfolio with samples of the work, of the required subjects. The purpose of the portfolio is to show that the child is being educated, which is the law. Not to prove competency.

And actually, I DO think it is unreasonable to evaluate the child and to show competency. Who gets to decide what competency is and when it should occur? If I have chosen to take on the responsibility of educating my own child, then I get the right to decide that. If I want the state to decide that, then I send my children to public school to be educated (which I have, like I mentioned).

Then in the OP's case the child would be out in the cold unless someone called protective services.

 

[Nayan]

And actually, I DO think it is unreasonable to evaluate the child and to show competency. Who gets to decide what competency is and when it should occur? If I have chosen to take on the responsibility of educating my own child, then I get the right to decide that. If I want the state to decide that, then I send my children to public school to be educated (which I have, like I mentioned).

I agree. I was a total numbskull when it comes to math, I went to public school and never got the help I needed. It wasn't until I quit school and began to study for my GED that I got a teacher who was patient enough to work with me and made sure I "got it". Some kids do "get it" and some don't. If I had to take a competency test I would have surely failed. How many kids in school fail every day? My son has so many resources available to him that if he has a question about anything he can find the answer. Sure wish I had it when I was in school.

 

[skater]

So how exactly is asking for ONE report a year on a child's homeschool education at all equivilent to that?

There is oversight.

 

[skater]

Really? Was the Patriot Act repealed and no one told me?

Good one!

 

[punkin]

I agree. I was a total numbskull when it comes to math, I went to public school and never got the help I needed. It wasn't until I quit school and began to study for my GED that I got a teacher who was patient enough to work with me and made sure I "got it". Some kids do "get it" and some don't. If I had to take a competency test I would have surely failed. How many kids in school fail every day? My son has so many resources available to him that if he has a question about anything he can find the answer. Sure wish I had it when I was in school.

Let me describe how school works around here (particularly for math). Step one: teacher introduces topic; Step two: teacher assigns homework; Step three: parent teaches material to child so she can do the homework; Step four: Teacher tests child. We have fabulous test scores in our district due to an extremely educated and involved parent body...but hey, our kids are tested up the wazoo.

 

[skater]

Let me describe how school works around here (particularly for math). Step one: teacher introduces topic; Step two: teacher assigns homework; Step three: parent teaches material to child so she can do the homework; Step four: Teacher tests child. We have fabulous test scores in our district due to an extremely educated and involved parent body...but hey, our kids are tested up the wazoo.

And really, no matter what kind of education you choose for your child, he will do better with parental involvement. That's the key because no one cares as much about your child's education as you do (in most cases).

 

[princessmom29]

There is oversight.

I don't think I was clear. I was asking how being asked to submit yearly homeschool evidence or yearly test scores could be compared to multiple random 2am welfare checks that the post I quoted was describing. I don't think they are at all comparable.

 

[princessmom29]

Let me describe how school works around here (particularly for math). Step one: teacher introduces topic; Step two: teacher assigns homework; Step three: parent teaches material to child so she can do the homework; Step four: Teacher tests child. We have fabulous test scores in our district due to an extremely educated and involved parent body...but hey, our kids are tested up the wazoo.

Then you have a very poor example of a school, and I would definitley be worknig to change that. It has not been my experience at all with public schools.