NO MORE free valet parking for DVC members.

[Sammie]

Magical Express being free is about as free as Free Dining, believe me the guest is paying for it. It is just marketed as "free".

 

[DRT-eagle]

If the valet parking is worth $12, then a week stay on my points would be $60 less and fees on my points would be $0.25 less per point. I doubt we will see that decrease. If you valet once a day and it takes 20 minutes to retrieve and store the car, the next cost is about $6 fully burdened on a valet employee. Nice markup. Way to take away a cheap benefit and make it a profit center for the other resort guests.

 

[CarolAnnC]

You won't see a decrease in dues because of valet as you were not paying for it in your dues to begin with.

With costs rising for everything that dues does include, an increase in dues will be no surprise to me. If valet was included, had they not switched to pay by use, then they would have risen even more....

 

[Dean]

If the valet parking is worth $12, then a week stay on my points would be $60 less and fees on my points would be $0.25 less per point. I doubt we will see that decrease. If you valet once a day and it takes 20 minutes to retrieve and store the car, the next cost is about $6 fully burdened on a valet employee. Nice markup. Way to take away a cheap benefit and make it a profit center for the other resort guests.

IF DVC member dues had been paying for the option previously then there should be a line item debit on the balance sheet going forward, the cost was not $12 until this change though. However, the info several have gathered is that there was previously no charge for the service to DVC members though going forward there would have been the full cost charged to membership plus any admin costs plus the 12% DVCMC add on. However even if there was full charge previously, your numbers are flawed in that only a relatively small percent of owners used the service routinely and the cost was $10 per day at the time of budget implementation, so you'd have to adjust your representation to a much smaller number of maybe 3¢ a point (your thinking but adjusting for the DVCMD add on and price differences).

 

[jade1]

IF DVC member dues had been paying for the option previously then there should be a line item debit on the balance sheet going forward, the cost was not $12 until this change though. However, the info several have gathered is that there was previously no charge for the service to DVC members though going forward there would have been the full cost charged to membership plus any admin costs plus the 12% DVCMC add on. However even if there was full charge previously, your numbers are flawed in that only a relatively small percent of owners used the service routinely and the cost was $10 per day at the time of budget implementation, so you'd have to adjust your representation to a much smaller number of maybe 3¢ a point (your thinking but adjusting for the DVCMD add on and price differences).

What a long, but great thread actually. I would have much preferred to pay 3 cents a point and kept it, even though we currently use ME. Does ME have a similar set up coming on the horizon? I think they may be trying to make parking difficult and valet expensive (in a we have 48 square miles undeveloped unlike NY city kind of way), so when the ME charges hit-folks may still want to stay with it? IF ME contract comes up, and everyone needs to start paying-are we currently paying anything towards it in dues, or will this be a huge (much bigger than valet) dues increase, and therefore be pay as you go? If it's even close to a car rental (5 of us) we will rent a car, and subsequently miss the valet perk. But we will be back to US or Clearwater on the weekends-which we do miss also-hey maybe that's why the week day points are going up as well-crafty.

 

[Dean]

What a long, but great thread actually. I would have much preferred to pay 3 cents a point and kept it, even though we currently use ME. Does ME have a similar set up coming on the horizon? I think they may be trying to make parking difficult and valet expensive (in a we have 48 square miles undeveloped unlike NY city kind of way), so when the ME charges hit-folks may still want to stay with it? IF ME contract comes up, and everyone needs to start paying-are we currently paying anything towards it in dues, or will this be a huge (much bigger than valet) dues increase, and therefore be pay as you go? If it's even close to a car rental (5 of us) we will rent a car, and subsequently miss the valet perk. But we will be back to US or Clearwater on the weekends-which we do miss also-hey maybe that's why the week day points are going up as well-crafty.

The 3¢ guess is a rough approximation of the previous costs and situation. Going forward, it might be a little more, say 5-7¢ per point and I would not personally want to have the increase even though I occasionally used the service. What would have been best though, IMO, is had DVC asked the membership what they wanted with a cost attached AND a representation of what the fees would have been like otherwise. For example, the fees for next year might go up say $1 a point even with free valet not being added in. I chose not to believe in the conspiracy theory, YMMV.

 

[jade1]

The 3¢ guess is a rough approximation of the previous costs and situation. Going forward, it might be a little more, say 5-7¢ per point and I would not personally want to have the increase even though I occasionally used the service. What would have been best though, IMO, is had DVC asked the membership what they wanted with a cost attached AND a representation of what the fees would have been like otherwise. For example, the fees for next year might go up say $1 a point even with free valet not being added in. I chose not to believe in the conspiracy theory, YMMV.

Thanks Dean, the 3 is now 5 to 7 and will soon be back to 25 cents (or more), so that part is not really worth contemplation IMO, was more interested in your thoughts about ME though if you don't mind, or is that what you meant by "the fees may go to $1 next year"? The loss of valet came out of left field IMO, and none of us were educated on the issue going in, it would be nice to know more about ME and what may transpire.

 

[Dean]

Thanks Dean, the 3 is now 5 to 7 and will soon be back to 25 cents (or more), so that part is not really worth contemplation IMO, was more interested in your thoughts about ME though if you don't mind, or is that what you meant by "the fees may go to $1 next year"? The loss of valet came out of left field IMO, and none of us were educated on the issue going in, it would be nice to know more about ME and what may transpire.

The loss of valet was a surprise acutely but if you think in the big picture it was not a surprise this was taken away. The truth is it likely should never have been free if you think about the economics and certainly should have not been free once the program were outsourced. ME is not free, it's simply paid for by someone else as a marketing tool. At some point it's likely that the cost for ME will be shifted toward the consumer. It has been pointed out that "ME" was always free, however, there was a previous bus service run by the same company (Mears) that did have a cost associated to the consumer.

 

[MELSMICE]

ME is not free, it's simply paid for by someone else as a marketing tool. At some point it's likely that the cost for ME will be shifted toward the consumer. It has been pointed out that "ME" was always free, however, there was a previous bus service run by the same company (Mears) that did have a cost associated to the consumer.

Definitely correct........it should just be worded as "ME is a service that is "included" in the cost of your WDW vacation."

Just like "free dining" is not really free (as has been stated previously).

Nothing is ever free - the costs are just passed along somewhere else down the line.

 

[Paging Tom Morrow]

The loss of valet was a surprise acutely but if you think in the big picture it was not a surprise this was taken away. The truth is it likely should never have been free if you think about the economics and certainly should have not been free once the program were outsourced. ME is not free, it's simply paid for by someone else as a marketing tool. At some point it's likely that the cost for ME will be shifted toward the consumer. It has been pointed out that "ME" was always free, however, there was a previous bus service run by the same company (Mears) that did have a cost associated to the consumer.

I assume that Disney did some sort of analysis that returned this simple fact: If Disney were to bus their guests from MCO to WDW, the average profit per guest would increase enough to pay for that busing service and increase additional profits.

Until that analysis shows that it doesn't, I wouldn't expect for Disney to make ME a pay-per-use service.

Granted, DVC guests are unique, particularly those staying in 1, 2 or 3-bedroom villas. With a full kitchen available, the chances of those guests eating somewhere profitable for Disney decreases. In my opinion, it's probably even more profitable for Disney to offer ME to these guests as ME service means those guests aren't stopping at a supermarket and bringing food to prepare for themselves and thus will purchase food from Disney.

(Yes, I know of multiple food delivery services, but it's my experience that most don't take advantage of this service.)

 

[jade1]

Granted, DVC guests are unique, particularly those staying in 1, 2 or 3-bedroom villas. With a full kitchen available, the chances of those guests eating somewhere profitable for Disney decreases. In my opinion, it's probably even more profitable for Disney to offer ME to these guests as ME service means those guests aren't stopping at a supermarket and bringing food to prepare for themselves and thus will purchase food from Disney.

(Yes, I know of multiple food delivery services, but it's my experience that most don't take advantage of this service.)

I would think the opposite, if they (DVC guests) have a car-they may still just cook in the room, as you pointed out Garden Grocer etc are set up for planners/veterans such as DVCers. I don't think they want us to have a car persay, but if ME becomes billable-there will be more cars. I would think encouraging car rental (charging for ME) at non DVC resorts would result in much more offsite travel/shopping/dining.

 

[Brian Noble]

I think Ken's on target here. ME isn't a perk. It's a profit center. Someone who takes ME would find it much more difficult to get offsite to eat, shop, visit an attraction, etc. Instead, every moment between leaving the airport and returning to it is spent with Mickey, and therefore so is every penny of vacation dollars.

 

[jade1]

Definitely correct........it should just be worded as "ME is a service that is "included" in the cost of your WDW vacation."

Just like "free dining" is not really free (as has been stated previously).

Nothing is ever free - the costs are just passed along somewhere else down the line.

Certainly agree as well, and that's exactly what happened with valet. The contract came up, prices went up, and the decision was made to not pass that expense on. Simply wondering if anyone knows the ME situation, are we paying anything toward ME now through dues, if so how much? If we all have time to sit here typing for weeks about a change nobody really knew how much it was costing, why can't we educate ourselves before a change...for a change. Maybe ME will always stay "included", but we thought that about valet as well.

 

[mommacat56]

What would have been best though, IMO, is had DVC asked the membership what they wanted with a cost attached AND a representation of what the fees would have been like otherwise. For example, the fees for next year might go up say $1 a point even with free valet not being added in..

I don't know if this was already raised in this thread or not (sorry if it has), but I agree that the member/owners should have been polled and allowed the opportunity to vote just like any other condo association prior to any change (outsourcing) of goods, suppliers, or services, especially since this change occurred in the middle of the current contract year already covered by a dues schedule adopted last year going forward. I'm sure it's legal (it's probably in the fine print somewhere), but it's really disheartening to the owners, who feel (like me) that they should be treated a little bit better than the average visitor to BWV, otherwise, why own if there isn't something to set us apart? How expensive is it now in terms of dues? I realize not all of use it (I rarely do), but I have no problem paying a little bit more in dues for all of us to feel just a little more special. I use the ME too, and if the valet parking issue is allowed to stand unopposed, it will be next as a "pay as you go" service. Isn't there any way to keep these services free to owners and shift the brunt of the costs to non-owners (increase the price of valet services and charge for ME)? Our dues associated with these sevices should be little affected this way. Just a thought...M

 

[tjkraz]

Until that analysis shows that it doesn't, I wouldn't expect for Disney to make ME a pay-per-use service.

Disney could still be competitive even with some token fee in place. If they charged, say, $10 per guest round-trip, the prices would still be very competitive compared to a car rental or town car service. Disney claims that more than 2 million guests per year are using DME. They could add a nice little bump to the bottom line with some minimal fee.

I'm sure there are very valid arguments against charging for DME but I'm still a bit surprised they haven't begun charging already.

 

[Dean]

I assume that Disney did some sort of analysis that returned this simple fact: If Disney were to bus their guests from MCO to WDW, the average profit per guest would increase enough to pay for that busing service and increase additional profits.

Until that analysis shows that it doesn't, I wouldn't expect for Disney to make ME a pay-per-use service.

Granted, DVC guests are unique, particularly those staying in 1, 2 or 3-bedroom villas. With a full kitchen available, the chances of those guests eating somewhere profitable for Disney decreases. In my opinion, it's probably even more profitable for Disney to offer ME to these guests as ME service means those guests aren't stopping at a supermarket and bringing food to prepare for themselves and thus will purchase food from Disney.

(Yes, I know of multiple food delivery services, but it's my experience that most don't take advantage of this service.)

I would assume they checked it out thoroughly as well and that the cost justified the benefit in their eyes. Less cars and overall more time=money spent at Disney venue's including shopping, restaurants, parks, etc.

Certainly agree as well, and that's exactly what happened with valet. The contract came up, prices went up, and the decision was made to not pass that expense on. Simply wondering if anyone knows the ME situation, are we paying anything toward ME now through dues, if so how much? If we all have time to sit here typing for weeks about a change nobody really knew how much it was costing, why can't we educate ourselves before a change...for a change. Maybe ME will always stay "included", but we thought that about valet as well.

Actually the price for valet would have gone from free to $12 per car per day, that's a big jump. The questions about this are why was this the situation and what transpired in between that forced this decision. I previously posted on some of the possibilities and they basically come back to contracts and contract negotiations between the Disney resorts, DVC and the valet vendor without many real details being available.

I don't know if this was already raised in this thread or not (sorry if it has), but I agree that the member/owners should have been polled and allowed the opportunity to vote just like any other condo association prior to any change (outsourcing) of goods, suppliers, or services, especially since this change occurred in the middle of the current contract year already covered by a dues schedule adopted last year going forward. I'm sure it's legal (it's probably in the fine print somewhere), but it's really disheartening to the owners, who feel (like me) that they should be treated a little bit better than the average visitor to BWV, otherwise, why own if there isn't something to set us apart? How expensive is it now in terms of dues? I realize not all of use it (I rarely do), but I have no problem paying a little bit more in dues for all of us to feel just a little more special. I use the ME too, and if the valet parking issue is allowed to stand unopposed, it will be next as a "pay as you go" service. Isn't there any way to keep these services free to owners and shift the brunt of the costs to non-owners (increase the price of valet services and charge for ME)? Our dues associated with these sevices should be little affected this way. Just a thought...M

Somewhat earlier in this thread I posted HOW I would have handled it assuming a short notice change had to occur, I won't go back through that. IMO, there really are 2 main issues at work here. One is the choice itself which I really don't see how anyone can legitimately argue with, the other is the method and there is a lot to take issue with on HOW it was done. However to deal with your posted issues, while it might be in the middle of the DVC budget year it may not be in the middle of the contract for the valet. I don't know the resort fiscal year nor the contract cycle and both would be applicable to any evaluation of this decision as would any terms that might be included in the contract that could change the costs midstream. For example, they could have tied the free DVC member valet to volume or revenues and fell below a specified threshold.

A point I made earlier is that a a given resort cannot do everything pay to play nor everything included, the question is WHERE do you draw the line. Even most ALL INCLUSIVE resorts charge for some items on top of the AI fees. Considerations include the cost, % of members using the option, any volume savings and the ease of charging for it appropriately. IMO, valet comes down on the wrong side of including it in ALL areas. It is relatively expensive, it is used by a minority, there is LIKELY little or no volume discount and it is easy to discern who to charge and how to charge. Internet is likely the next closest item and it is vastly different within the terms I used to evaluate this issue and summarized above.

One fundamental difference that some of us have with some on the other side is this. I paid for a timeshare for a place to stay. I expect it to be kept to a certain standard and managed appropriately. I DO NOT feel they need to continue to compete for my affection beyond doing that job well. Obviously anything they can offer will be great but I will consider it gravy and not part of "what I paid for". I think this is a basic difference between the two sides of many of these type of debates.

Basically the question related to the removal of free valet comes down to VERY simple terms. Am I going to pay for my own valet or am I going to ask others that don't use it to pay for it. Given the ONLY benefit to me for others to pay for it is a reduction in my costs at their expense, I can see no legitimate way to ask them to do so. Now if a week for each instance became $20 per vehicle when the cost was shared rather than $84, I would vote to include it as a line item instead of pay to play.

 

[dizkneedoll]

Just got back from a week at WDW. One of our evenings we valet parked at the Boardwalk. I could not believe the difference. There was hardly a car in sight ... in the past you could barely make your way to the valet stand. On return I have to say that was the fastest we have ever gotten a car back in years. I really do feel sorry for the guys/gals who work valet as they must be seeing a huge cut in their income thru lack of tips.

 

[kindra657]

When analyzing the way disney has made their vacations "more affordable" and very "all inclusive" in keeping guests completely on-property, I sometimes wonder if all of the things they have done, they done so as to get people (especially new disney vacationers and dvc members) used to certain style of vacationing in disney and now that they have us hooked, they will slowly take the wonderful perks away. For example, when we first began vacationing to wdw, the dining plan included the appetizer and the gratuity. We got used to dining at disney's restaurants and when they changed the ddp, we continued to use it and began paying the higher costs and receiving less (less food and less quality). Also, IMO, the food has become very standardized across the board.
Another part of our wdw vacationing that we have grown to love and become accustomed to is NOT driving while on vacation. We enjoy using the ME service, the luggage service, and the on-property transportation. If disney slowly took those things away, we would still want them because these are the things we've become accustomed to and disney knows that we will pay another 3% of our vacation to have it.
For many of you, valet parking (especially at bwv) has become a part of your vacationing and I wonder if disney assumes that people will continue the service even with an added cost.
Many different businesses and industries are practicing this: give less and charge more (airline baggage fees....) I just hope that the big wigs in the disney company stop behaving selfishly, realize that Walt wouldn't be making poor guest-relation decisions such as these, and also come to realize that dvc members are loyal costumers and very important to the continued success of wdw.

 

[Dean]

When analyzing the way disney has made their vacations "more affordable" and very "all inclusive" in keeping guests completely on-property, I sometimes wonder if all of the things they have done, they done so as to get people (especially new disney vacationers and dvc members) used to certain style of vacationing in disney and now that they have us hooked, they will slowly take the wonderful perks away. For example, when we first began vacationing to wdw, the dining plan included the appetizer and the gratuity. We got used to dining at disney's restaurants and when they changed the ddp, we continued to use it and began paying the higher costs and receiving less (less food and less quality). Also, IMO, the food has become very standardized across the board.
Another part of our wdw vacationing that we have grown to love and become accustomed to is NOT driving while on vacation. We enjoy using the ME service, the luggage service, and the on-property transportation. If disney slowly took those things away, we would still want them because these are the things we've become accustomed to and disney knows that we will pay another 3% of our vacation to have it.
For many of you, valet parking (especially at bwv) has become a part of your vacationing and I wonder if disney assumes that people will continue the service even with an added cost.
Many different businesses and industries are practicing this: give less and charge more (airline baggage fees....) I just hope that the big wigs in the disney company stop behaving selfishly, realize that Walt wouldn't be making poor guest-relation decisions such as these, and also come to realize that dvc members are loyal costumers and very important to the continued success of wdw.

I almost mentioned this earlier. At work we have MJO's (Major Job Objectives), once we have staff in the habit of doing things a certain way, we move on and adjust those objectives to shape behavior in other areas.

 

[Tara]

Just thought I'd report that I had no issues with using my TIW card for valet parking. In fact, every time I valeted, the attendant asked if I was a TIW cardholder.