no more free esta!!!!!

[crabbie1]

Well You live and learn. I have had an email confirming I am allowed entry under the visa programme.So at least I can enter.Cost me though-bloomin robdogsOn another note my DB has decided after reading hundreds of posts on hundreds of forums and the official US site about moral turpitude he is NOT going to go through with his visa application. I am worried sick about it but they are nothing but money scammers(that was from a US official). He has a Dui which finishes next month never had any other problems with the police so is not gonna pay out another £250 for a medical/blood test and courier service after already spending over £200 I also searched and apparently anyone with a DUI conviction doesnt need to answer yes on the esta form. He phoned someone today and his esta has been approved and the guy said not to worry.When he gets to the states they will not even bat an eyelid as they have no access to british records unless a person is a known murderer/terroroist etc. One forum said that a guy was asked why he had a visa and the security guy laughed and said it was ridiculous when he said it was for a single DUI. He also said "Has george bush ever been arrested for a DUI"
After all the stress and bad luck we have both had I didnt want to risk it but after DB speaking to some officials in the US today it has reassured us. Im just worried that is the esta enough to secure entry because anyone could say they have no moral turpitude issues but could be lying.Hard decision for us.As 99% of people have said dont worry im trying not to but until we land and go through the grillin i wont relax.
Does anyone know if the esta would flag up any issues or is there still a risk that DB may get stopped? I know some of you will say I should get a visa to be on the safe side but with only 10 weeks to go he was told it can take up to three months to sort and as nothing has started yet.They didnt scan his passport nothing.Just said standard procedure for all DUI to attend a medical and gave his passport back. This should have been done first in my eyes instead of a 3 hr expensive train journey $140 visa fee +£1.20 a min which cost us £24 to get through to them. He has emailed them today to say to send his forms back as he is not going to proceed.Hope they will and dont send copies off to the us

 

[2Tiggies]

Glad you're feeling better today.

ESTA's don't guarantee anyone entry into the US. It means that they have approved the fact that you don't require a visa. But that goes for everyone and it says so on the official site so don't worry.

Who did your DB speak to (the officials you mentioned)?

 

[crabbie1]

I dont know as Im at University he just said he had spoken to someone in border contol

 

[paulfoel]

Always wondered what moral turpitude is?

 

[2Tiggies]

Wikipedia says:

Moral turpitude is a legal concept in the United States that refers to "conduct that is considered contrary to community standards of justice, honesty or good morals."[1]

The concept of moral turpitude escapes precise definition but has been described as an "act of baseness, vileness or depravity in the private and social duties which a man owes to his fellowmen, or to society in general, contrary to the accepted and customary rule of right and duty between man and man." [2] Until recent times, a man engaged in homosexual behavior was considered engaging 'criminal behavior involving moral turpitude'. [3] The classification of a crime or other conduct as constituting moral turpitude has significance in several areas of law. First, prior conviction of a crime of moral turpitude (or in some jurisdictions, moral turpitude conduct, even without a conviction) is considered to have a bearing on the honesty of a witness and may be used for purposes of witness impeachment. [4] Second, moral turpitude offenses may be grounds to deny or revoke a professional license such as a teaching credential, [5] license to practice law, [6] or other licensed profession. Third, it is of great importance for immigration purposes, as only those offenses which are defined as involving moral turpitude are considered bars to immigration into the U.S. [7]

Does that help, Paul?

 

[crabbie1]

Just thought I would show this.Makes me feel better
Given that the Foriegn Affairs Manual (here:http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf) states that drunk driving is not a crime of moral turpitude, and the ESTA from only asks about crimes of moral turpitude, does that mean that travellers who have had a single conviction for a drunk driving offence are still eligable to travel under the Visa Waiver Programme? There is a lot of conflicting information available on this subject.

US Customs Answer:
Thank you for contacting Customs and Border Protection's Customer Info Center. In reference to your question, CBP's information on visitors with drunk driving offenses are rather consistent. As stated on our web site at https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/736, "The U.S. does not deny entry to persons with a "Driving Under the Influence" (DUI) conviction. " It further states that multiple convictions for this and/or other misdemeanors could deem a traveler inadmissible into the US. Since, as you pointed out, a drunk driving offense is not a crime of moral turpitude, it should not be included in your ESTA application.

 

[kristieuk]

Fantastic news! Sorry, I replied to the Visa thread before reading this. Just wanted to add that I hope you have a very relaxing run up to your trip, and the holiday of a lifetime

 

[2Tiggies]

I would also feel better after reading that. TBH, I seem to think it has come up on a thread/s in the past, but as it doesn't affect me I haven't paid much attention.

I am so glad you found that and that you are feeling better. There is something about a feeling of relief that just cannot be described!

 

[Netty]

Sorry Alyson, I have only just had the chance to sit down after work and read this thread.I wish I had read it earlier to put your mind at rest.
A woman I know had a DUI conviction a couple of months before she was due to go to Florida, she also had to go on a course for the conviction. she asked the police if she needed a visa and they said yes, anyway she didnt bother, went to Florida and had no problems whatsoever at US immigration. another woman I know was arrested for hitting out in self defence on a night out, she also had no probs going to Florida.
So as you have now found out on the foreign affairs manual-you have nothing to worry about!!!

 

[disneydaft]

Tell him not to risk it now. Had he not applied for a visa at all he would almost certainly have got in without a single problem. However the US government now have his details and know that he has a criminal conviction. He will get stopped at immigration.
Wether or not he would still get in or not is another issue.

 

[crabbie1]

Tell him not to risk it now. Had he not applied for a visa at all he would almost certainly have got in without a single problem. However the US government now have his details and know that he has a criminal conviction. He will get stopped at immigration.
Wether or not he would still get in or not is another issue.

Thanks for that He has not continued with the application and they have to have a signature from him to do anything. Im sure they are not going to send his documents over and say "you cant come in " when he has physically emailed and phoned boarder control and they told him not to worry. We have been told to print off the email from them and take it with us.DUI is not moral turpitude .I was feeling ok till I read this.
Can I just ask disneydaft-how do you know this???

 

[thestevied]

I've just done mine and my wifes esta application using the link from the 'how to esta' sticky and it has all worked fine... no charge either. Hope I have done the right thing now!

 

[disneydaft]

Thanks for that He has not continued with the application and they have to have a signature from him to do anything. Im sure they are not going to send his documents over and say "you cant come in " when he has physically emailed and phoned boarder control and they told him not to worry. We have been told to print off the email from them and take it with us.DUI is not moral turpitude .I was feeling ok till I read this.
Can I just ask disneydaft-how do you know this???

They don't have to send anything over as they are all the same department. The information that your husband gave in his application will be on the immigration computers when his passport is scanned in Florida the details will pop up on their screens.

 

[kristieuk]

Yes but the point is, Border Control are saying a one of DUI is not an offence of moral turpitude, and therefore is not 'declarable'. The question isn't 'have you ever had a criminal conviction', it is 'have you been arrested or convicted for an offence of moral turpitude'. If Crabbie is being told it does not have to be declared, it means they can both travel under the Visa Waiver programme and don't need to apply for Visas. The fact that there is half an application floating around doesn't mean anything since new information has come to light which means it isn't needed anymore. I don't think I have this all wrong

 

[disneydaft]

Yes but the point is, Border Control are saying a one of DUI is not an offence of moral turpitude, and therefore is not 'declarable'. The question isn't 'have you ever had a criminal conviction', it is 'have you been arrested or convicted for an offence of moral turpitude'. If Crabbie is being told it does not have to be declared, it means they can both travel under the Visa Waiver programme and don't need to apply for Visas. The fact that there is half an application floating around doesn't mean anything since new information has come to light which means it isn't needed anymore. I don't think I have this all wrong

All i'm saying is that he will get stopped & questioned at immigration as to why he needed an application in the first place. Remember it is down to the immigration officer on the day wether or not you get in.
Besides the ops reply to the email does not mention not needing a visa only that you will dot be denied entry.

You are better getting it all in order before you go.

 

[katiec]

I'm sorry - I havent read the whole thread - but have read the last few about DUI and Visa Waiver.

I AM NOT ADVOCATING YOU TRY TO HIDE CONVICTIONS OR ANY OTHER INFORMATION FROM THE US AUTHORITIES - this goes against everything I stand for and do.

However, you have to think to yourself - "How would a US Immigration officer know about my conviction"
The Americans do not have access to our PNC system, so unless your name comes up on a watch list - there is usually no way they would know about any convictions.
The airlines have to send the US authorities a list of names of all passengers on each flight and they cross reference this with their "watch list".

As I have already said, I AM NOT advocating people try to hide their convictions AT ALL, goes well against my morals, but realistically, if you have a caution for criminal damage or similar, this would not be of any interest to the Americans.

They are looking for people with Sexual/GBH etc convictions, and there are ways of letting the US authorities know who these people are.

 

[crabbie1]

All i'm saying is that he will get stopped & questioned at immigration as to why he needed an application in the first place. Remember it is down to the immigration officer on the day wether or not you get in.
Besides the ops reply to the email does not mention not needing a visa only that you will dot be denied entry.

How do you know he will definatley get stopped? You are the only one on here and everyone else we have spoken to who has said that???You still didnt answer my question as to how you know all this???? Do you work for the US embassy and can I just say that the US customs and border control are not the same people at all. The US embassey in london have far more important things to do then send a half finished and withdrawn application to some guy on the late shift at MCO!!!!
If the US embassey had already alerted the border patrol of his passport number, name,DOB, address ad nauseum then his esta application would have been rejected.
None of your comments have been positive like all my other collegues on here and I would rather take the word of the US border control than yours sorry about that .

 

[2Tiggies]

All i'm saying is that he will get stopped & questioned at immigration as to why he needed an application in the first place. Remember it is down to the immigration officer on the day wether or not you get in.
Besides the ops reply to the email does not mention not needing a visa only that you will dot be denied entry.

You are better getting it all in order before you go.

If they didn't process his application, which they didn't, they won't have his details. Did they take a passport number and all kinds of other info at the interview? The Embassy won't turn people away for applying for a visa because they don't need one. The Visa Waiver is just that: you don't HAVE to have one, but anyone can apply. The man has spoken with CBP officialsl. They are the ones he has to deal with on the other side and they said it's fine.

 

[disneydaft]

The US embassey in london have far more important things to do then send a half finished and withdrawn application to some guy on the late shift at MCO!!!!
If the US embassey had already alerted the border patrol of his passport number, name,DOB, address ad nauseum then his esta application would have been rejected.
None of your comments have been positive like all my other collegues on here and I would rather take the word of the US border control than yours sorry about that .

You seem to only be beleiving what you want but I'm only trying to help. Nobody has to send any half finished applications anywhere. Its all on the US immigration computers. What do you think they do with the information on the forms when you apply for a visa. It gets put on the computer system.

There was a post on the other uk forum a while ago with someone in the same position applying for a visa then changing their minds. I'll find a link.

My posts aren't negative I'm being realistic and offering advice. It's only a couple of hundred pounds out of a 4 or 5 grand holiday.

If they didn't process his application, which they didn't, they won't have his details. Did they take a passport number and all kinds of other info at the interview?

All that information is in the application. Hi application was processed as he was called for interview.

 

[disneydaft]

I've remembered it was actually an online newspaper article. It was a woman who's son was in the same position having applied for a visa then used the visa waiver.

I'm still looking for the link.