No Debates About The Illegal Immigrants Issue?

[ducklite]

I have a question regarding the idea of granting guest worker status. What happens after they come here with a guest worker status and then disappear? How do we keep track of these people so that they must renew their status or go home? Just a question. It sounds almost impossible to police. We can't even keep track of people who enter the country from other places on a temporary basis.

In my perfect world they would have to be sponsored by an employer, and that employer is under the obligation to make sure they leave at the end of their visa term. If they do not, the employer would be held accountable and face stiff penalties. This accountability will make employers think twice about finding employees within the current labor pool, even at a higher cost, and careful about who they hire under a guest worker program as well.

Anne

 

[Mskanga]

Also the INS requires an address where they would be living and the name of a person that they would be living with until the process is over , preferably a US citizen or someone who is legal. The problem is that most of the times these people move and never notify the INS of where they go and since they have no taxes to pay and no SS# ( at least not a legal one ) they get "lost".
Have you ever seen the movie "green card" with Gerard Depardieu ? The INS agents kept chasing him and paying him surprise visits , I thought for the longest time that they would do that to me too, LOL. Not that I would have cared but I was scared to death during the pre-liminary time that they would find something wrong and deny my application. I didn't know much about the INS then but I was scared to death of them!

 

[momof2inPA]

Well, most would consider me a liberal, and I'm 100% against illegal immagration. It needs to stop and it needs to stop now. Companies that hire and house illegals need to be fined and/or shut down.

What I'm not sure of is how to handle those already here. My gut instinct is to send them ALL back, but that's easy to say to a anonomus "them". When you are talking about individual families, especially with children it gets harder. I'm not saying we shouldn't send a lot of illegals back, I'm just saying it's not the black and white issue it seems to be. When dealing with people, it's always shades of grey.

I live in an area with a high number of illegals from Mexico and central/south america. My school system has an enrollment that is 60% hispanic, and a majority of those speak English as a second language. No, I'm not in a boarder state. I live in the the suburbs of Chicago. So this entire mess directly affects me and my family. Be sure I'll be watching the Congress very closely on this issue, and will vote accordingly when the time comes.

I'm liberal, as well. The Democratic Party just sent me a survey where I was supposed to rank what issues were important to me. Illegal immigration wasn't even a choice, so I wrote it in.

They screw up the entire supply and demand system for our labor pool. So many of the working poor who have fallen off the unemployment rolls would step in to fill the lower paying jobs if the illegals were sent back and the employers were substantially penalized. Heck, more service employers might even be forced to offer health care-- shocking. I'm more than willing to pay more for services if I know a U.S. citizen will be providing them and reaping the benefits of U.S. employment.

Send all the illegals back, build a wall, let the market stabilize before we determine how much we need to increase legal immigration. Make sure all legal immigrants and employers are complying with our employment laws/rules. NO GUEST WORKERS!!!!!!

 

[BriarfoxinWA]

I'm liberal, as well. The Democratic Party just sent me a survey where I was supposed to rank what issues were important to me. Illegal immigration wasn't even a choice, so I wrote it in.

They screw up the entire supply and demand system for our labor pool. So many of the working poor who have fallen off the unemployment rolls would step in to fill the lower paying jobs if the illegals were sent back and the employers were substantially penalized. Heck, more service employers might even be forced to offer health care-- shocking. I'm more than willing to pay more for services if I know a U.S. citizen will be providing them and reaping the benefits of U.S. employment.

Send all the illegals back, build a wall, let the market stabilize before we determine how much we need to increase legal immigration. Make sure all legal immigrants and employers are complying with our employment laws/rules. NO GUEST WORKERS!!!!!!

OK how about NO FOOD FOR YOU! I wasn't going to get into this can of worms because there is no easy answer - but think about this....probably 95% of ALL of the food (vegetables, tree fruit, etc) in the US is harvested by minority workers. I'm sure a huge number of these people are illegal. Oh sure they provide SS#'s but they are mostly stolen or fake. If you take all of these workers out of the system - I'd bet you any amount of money that crops would rot in the field...Why? Because even our poor legal US citizens living on unemployment and/or Welfare will not stoop to picking apples for minimum wage... Bottom line is that most of these illegal immigrants are doing jobs that the rest of us WON'T do.

 

[Feralpeg]

OK how about NO FOOD FOR YOU! I wasn't going to get into this can of worms because there is no easy answer - but think about this....probably 95% of ALL of the food (vegetables, tree fruit, etc) in the US is harvested by minority workers. I'm sure a huge number of these people are illegal. Oh sure they provide SS#'s but they are mostly stolen or fake. If you take all of these workers out of the system - I'd bet you any amount of money that crops would rot in the field...Why? Because even our poor legal US citizens living on unemployment and/or Welfare will not stoop to picking apples for minimum wage... Bottom line is that most of these illegal immigrants are doing jobs that the rest of us WON'T do.

Maybe. Maybe not. I'd like to give American workers the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

 

[BriarfoxinWA]

I live in a predominately agricultural area, believe me if there were enough legal US Citizens wanting to work in the fields we would not have a problem here with illegal immigrants - there would be no jobs for them.

 

[CapeCodTenor]

OK how about NO FOOD FOR YOU! I wasn't going to get into this can of worms because there is no easy answer - but think about this....probably 95% of ALL of the food (vegetables, tree fruit, etc) in the US is harvested by minority workers. I'm sure a huge number of these people are illegal. Oh sure they provide SS#'s but they are mostly stolen or fake. If you take all of these workers out of the system - I'd bet you any amount of money that crops would rot in the field...Why? Because even our poor legal US citizens living on unemployment and/or Welfare will not stoop to picking apples for minimum wage... Bottom line is that most of these illegal immigrants are doing jobs that the rest of us WON'T do.

Can you provide a source for your number? Because I just did a quick google and came across this....

-- Illegal immigrants can be found working in many sectors of the U.S. economy. About 3 percent work in agriculture; 33 percent have jobs in service industries; and substantial numbers can be found in construction and related occupations (16 percent) and in production, installation and repair (17 percent).

from NPR
I did the highlight. So, according to this only 3% of illegal immigrants work in agriculture, not 95%. What I don't understand is, what part of ILLEGAL don't some people get?

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

They screw up the entire supply and demand system for our labor pool. So many of the working poor who have fallen off the unemployment rolls would step in to fill the lower paying jobs if the illegals were sent back and the employers were substantially penalized.

Thank you... My fellow liberals...let your heart bleed for your fellow Americans and legal residents FIRST.

Everytime I see posts about how people who aren't here are entitled to come for a better life I want to choke. What's the commerical? Two's company, three hundred million is a crowd? Do you want to just drop the borders and say come on down/up/across? Without enforcement that's what you are doing. The kids make enforcement sad but I think a reasonable but thoroughly harsh compromise would be to allow parents to put their US Citizen children in foster care. Drain on the system? Yes. Likely to happen regularly? No.

The one thing I can't figure out is how I'm the descendant of an illegal immigrants. None of my ancestors entered the country contrary to the laws of the United States. Odds are a big chunk predated those laws.

 

[disneyaggie]

Oh, here's one! Below is part of an article from the Dallas Morning News. Seems 1500 kids decided to leave class to protest. What the heck? Here's the clincher: the school district isn't sure if they should get punishment for ditching class! What's wrong with that picture? They had all day Saturday and Sunday to "do their thing" but NOOOOO, they decide to miss school! It is hitting the fan on talk radio about this! Here is the article. Enjoy.

_______________________

More than 1,500 Dallas high school students walked out of their classes Monday morning to protest what some say are government proposals that target undocumented immigrants in the United States.

Students abandoned classes at Sunset and Molina high schools and the Townview Magnet Center. Many assembled around 11 a.m. at Kiest Park to rally against the legislation.

“I’m from here, but my dad (and) my mom are illegally here,” said Molina 10th-grader Jorge Martinez. “They work hard and deserve to be legal residents.”

Some 30 Dallas police patrols, along with DART and Dallas Independent School District officers, watched over the gathering.

“We are here to mainly safeguard the youth,” Officer Les Willie said.

DISD spokeswoman Ivette Cruz Weis said the district would have buses to return them to school once the rally is over.

Weis said about 1,000 students from Molina, 500 from Townview and an undetermined number from Sunset participated in the event.

Dallas police Senior Cpl. Max Geron said once the department learned of the protests, officers helped escort the students safely to their designated gathering places.

Geron said the largest student gatherings were at Kiest Park and City Hall, but a smaller group left Thomas Jefferson High School in northwest Dallas and assembled at Bachman Lake Park. He wouldn't say how many officers were on hand to maintain safety at the rallies, but said the department had "sufficient resources" to handle the crowds.

"The students were peaceful and cooperative with officers, and didn't cause any problems," he said. "You really can't prevent them from peaceably assembling."

The group that went to City Hall briefly tied up several nearby streets, but Geron said none of the protests caused any major traffic delays.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

Why, exactly, would the schools send busses to pick them up? Wouldn't truant officers be more appropriate?

 

[disneyaggie]

Why, exactly, would the schools send busses to pick them up? Wouldn't truant officers be more appropriate?

Yup!

Oh, the news just said that all of the students will get an unexcused absense. Big deal.

 

[Mskanga]

I hope that is an unexcused absence.......

 

[caitycaity]

I'd bet you any amount of money that crops would rot in the field...Why? Because even our poor legal US citizens living on unemployment and/or Welfare will not stoop to picking apples for minimum wage... Bottom line is that most of these illegal immigrants are doing jobs that the rest of us WON'T do.

this is exactly the point though - if illegals are not in the country willing to do the work for bellow minimum wage then employers will have to raise wages for american workers (and potentially even benefits). illegal immigrants working in this country HURT OTHER AMERICANS.

it is basic economics.

 

[BriarfoxinWA]

this is exactly the point though - if illegals are not in the country willing to do the work for bellow minimum wage then employers will have to raise wages for american workers (and potentially even benefits). illegal immigrants working in this country HURT OTHER AMERICANS.

it is basic economics.

And it's basic economics then that all of our basic needs, food, clothing, housing will rise in price. Most small business owners are barely making a living and can't afford to pay their workers more if they wanted to.

 

[caitycaity]

And it's basic economics then that all of our basic needs, food, clothing, housing will rise in price. Most small business owners are barely making a living and can't afford to pay their workers more if they wanted to.

i would happily pay more. furthermore, we are already paying that price in other ways - like subsidizing illegals public education, healthcare, etc.

if small business owners can't afford to pay legal workers minimum wage they should be out of business anyways. that's the law.

 

[disneyaggie]

You may want to book mark this one . . . I guarantee you it may happen . . .

So the Senate Judiciary Committee (or whoever the government body was) just said that it would not be a felony to be here illegally (which has already been in place), so I can guarantee you some attorney will represent some drug pusher who will try to play the card of, "Well gee, if they are here illegally (against the law, folks), then why is my pushing drugs not o.k.? That's discrimination".

Mark my words. Sad, but true.

 

[MommyPoppins]

There was a debate several months ago.


The sides were divided.

1) our country our rules

2) how could we not let them in our country and "save' them.

I say unless you plan on opening your doors to personally house those whom you allow to cross illegally--it is fullish to allow this "leak" to continue.

Immigration laws have changed over the years and unless you are 100% Native American..your ancestors came here "illegally". So it is silly to suggest deporting anyone b/c then the entire country practically would have to be deported.

I'm all for facilitating legal means to help people. But Good Lord--I can't just go sneak into any country I choose to and expect to live for any length of time without getting busted and deported per their immigration laws.

Enough is enough. The country is ever changing. Laws evolve per the needs of the society.

Why must the US forever have an open door--remember that budget deficit? With or without the war--we cannot afford to be this way forever. And way back when--when people came here--they pursued the american dream. They busted their butts. They were not lazy. While some who cross are the same way..many are not and it leaches off of our system.

We complain about the sterotype of our own citizens birthing babies to stay on welfare---well not everyone does that. Yet it is suggested we stop allowing them to leach off the system...when they have done nothing illegal (yeah--remember women's rights--women have a choice). Those who go on disability when they may have some if not all their ability. This is law breaking, is it not? Of course--and people hate it.

Yet any person who crosses the border--oh poor things...we have to help them. It's so bad at home. We should give them a gift basket with their medicaid card, food stamps, and wic checks.

Nothing like the new American dream. No hardwork--just a handout.

I don't get it.

Don't forget you can actually get cash from the government too.

DH and I were just talking about this the other day. It is SOOOOOOOOOO frustrating, we hate it when people are like,"They just want a better life, its hard where they come from, everone deserves a better life." That's a load of CRAP! Them just being here and living in a shack in the USA instead of where ever they came from is a better life. They want to leach off the government because, well that's okay. Since they aren't white(because europeans can't live here illegally) the government just gives them hand out after hand out. Around here there are more hispanics than anything anymore and while I realize that they aren't all illeagel, it's maddening none the less when standing in line behind them at walmart with their 2 baskets full of grocerys, paying with their foodstamps and loading those grocerys up into their new SUVS and big trucks.

 

[Feralpeg]

Maybe it's all a plot by the Mexican government. If they send enough people here into every part of the country, they can eventually bring about a coup and take over. It seems like we are doing our best to make it easy for them.

I hate to sound like a hard-hearted person, but why is it our responsibility to take care of all the poor and down-trodden in the world? Gosh, there are lots of poor folks who would love a chance at a better life. Should we say, find a way to get here and we'll take you in and hand things to you? I bet there are a ton of people in Africa that would love to be here if they only knew and could find a way here. Sorry, but I think be slaughtered by guerrillas is a lot worse than what is happening to folks in Mexico. We just can't be the savior for the whole world. Not unless we want to watch this country fall apart. I wish there was a magic solution, but there isn't. At some point, we have to say charity begins at home.

 

[LakeAriel]

Don't all you Bush supporters know why he has such a liberal (gasp) stance on immigration? His brother Jeb's wife was born in Mexico. George Bush is a hypocrit!

 

[In a hurry]

Technically, even the 100% Native Americans came from somewhere! Just because someone arrived first doesn't give them forever rights to the land. (Just ask those Native Americans!)

We can't afford to save the world when we have children/elderly starving in the US. There are many people here legally that are choosing amongst housing, food, or meds.

There have to be laws, and they need to be enforcable!