NJ - Education Crisis

[bballmom56]

You do understand that when they say 4% raises were given that it does not mean that TEACHERS get a 4% raise across the board, right? 4% is spread across the entire pay guide and includes secretaries, nurses, custodial staff, etc. People see 4% and they assume that every employee got a huge raise when in fact, most never see anywhere near 4%. My last raise worked out to 1.035% although the newspaper claims I got 4%.

Well it's still more than my DH got - a college professor with a PhD at a private college for 20 years. He makes far less than some of the faculty with the same longevity and less credentials at our public HS. All employees at the college got 0, and now all state funding has been cut. He pays $700/month for our health insurance (which the public school teachers do not) and over $600/month for his retirement (which the public school teachers do not).

I just did a quick check of the public payroll and about 40 out of 140 of our HS teachers make over $80,000 with a master's degree and less than 20 years experience. I'm not feeling too much sympathy for them.

 

[wdwfan16]

All the Governor has done is shift the burden of the deficit onto local municipalities. He has not created jobs, has not increased revenue, and has not come up with a viable plan to help NJ residents afford to continue to live in the state. He not only cut the educational state aid but also the municipal state aid. Count on huge property tax increases. There is no quick fix magic bullet for this problem. Christie is just playing with smoke and mirrors.

Oh, and for the record, I am untenured and I pay almost $1400/month for family medical/dental benefits. How many private sector jobs require an employee to work for 3 years before family coverage is part of their salary package?

I have been paying our health insurance for 15+ years. We are now at $1K per month. There is no dental, RX or well visits included in that premium.

ETA: Pay raises of only 1%. I wish we got that. I took a paycut of 11% and DH took a paycut of 13%. We are at different companies. Now they want us to pay more so others can have for free what we pay 100% for ourselves? We also pay 100% of our own retirement, no pensions here.

 

[Cindy B]

Yes and our salary is reflective of that. I think people forget that we make much less than people in private sectors and part of the way we make some of that money back is through benefits. If I were to make career choices all over again and had seen this coming, would I have been a teacher? Probably not. And unfortunately, as college students start to pick their majors, they are going to be asking themselves if it is even worth it. Which could result is bad teachers, which results in poorer education to your children. When you peck away at the bottom of the totem poll eventually the whole thing is going to come crashing down. And I don't know who thinks districts have 12 VPs. We have about 1300 kids in our high school and only have 2 VPs, that's 650 kids/VP.

My sons high school has one principal and 12 VPs. They consider the dept heads VP's so they maintain the title and (salary) that goes with the title. So there is one principal, 3 grade level vice principals and the remaining are dept head with VP titles.

The high school has about 4000 kids too. The district size has 19 schools and about 15,000 students totals.

 

[lsyorke]

Finally, a little fiscal responsibility. Now, let's see how the local districts respond.

The local districts will raise property taxes and we'll pay anyway. The difference is that the towns can do whatever they want with no oversight. Christies 2.5% cap for local taxes will never happen.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

The local districts will raise property taxes and we'll pay anyway. The difference is that the towns can do whatever they want with no oversight. Christies 2.5% cap for local taxes will never happen.

This is certainly a possibility. If it happens, you will see even more of the wealthy leave the state. These tax cuts came mostly from wealthy communities.

NJ was a haven for the wealthy 20 years ago. The wealthy are now leaving in droves. What happens to the state when they are back at 30 year ago levels? Most of the taxes are paid by the top 10%...

 

[sssteele]

I worked in PA schools for 35 years, and the recent wave of "unfunded mandates" from the federal government (especially IDA and "No Child Left Behind") has made local school budgets mushroom, along with health benefits and a deficit in the teachers' retirement system. Are "artificial turf sports fields still being installed in NJ like they seem to be in PA? I'm of the opinion that public schools must return to doing what their original mandate provided for - education, not sports and other extra-curricular activities. I know that these activities serve many purposes, but should the be provided at taxpayer expense?

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

I worked in PA schools for 35 years, and the recent wave of "unfunded mandates" from the federal government (especially IDA and "No Child Left Behind") has made local school budgets mushroom, along with health benefits and a deficit in the teachers' retirement system. Are "artificial turf sports fields still being installed in NJ like they seem to be in PA? I'm of the opinion that public schools must return to doing what their original mandate provided for - education, not sports and other extra-curricular activities. I know that these activities serve many purposes, but should the be provided at taxpayer expense?

I think all sports should be cut - think of the savings in coaches, uniforms, travel, etc. Along with the band.

Want to play a sport? Join a team outside of school or go to a private school.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I think all sports should be cut - think of the savings in coaches, uniforms, travel, etc. Along with the band.

Want to play a sport? Join a team outside of school or go to a private school.

I think that local communities should make these decisions.

 

[storzo]

You do understand that when they say 4% raises were given that it does not mean that TEACHERS get a 4% raise across the board, right? 4% is spread across the entire pay guide and includes secretaries, nurses, custodial staff, etc. People see 4% and they assume that every employee got a huge raise when in fact, most never see anywhere near 4%. My last raise worked out to 1.035% although the newspaper claims I got 4%.

I don't know how it works in your district but in mine when it said teachers got a 4% raise, they got a 4% raise. Secretaries have their own bargaining unit and their own contract and negotiate their own raises as do the custodians.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

Is everyone looking at the right statistic? There is a stat for % of aid cut, but the line you really should look at is the % of overall budget cut. I'm finding almost all of those at 4-5%.

Yes I am confused by this as well, where I student taught they are cut 5% (but this is a SMALL district of only 1 k-8 school) and then where my daughter will be attending in the fall was cut 5% (a little bigger, about 5 k-5 schools, middle school, and a high school). Both Monmouth County. So is that bad?

 

[TeresaNJ]

I'm thrilled. Governor Christie was elected to fix things in this most corrupt state, and he's doing it. Kudos to him.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Okay, so I just had a conversation with a school administrator here in NJ. He said that the cost of education started to really rise when we had to take on so many additional porgrams to help disadvantaged children (ESL, learning disabled, etc.). His take, remove those programs, or force the parents of those children to pay for their children's additional needs, and the cost of mainstream education in American schools could be cut significantly.

In other words, it seems that a disproportionate percentage of the funds ends up being applied to the aid of the few - children who were not a part of mainstream education a few decades ago.

So, I don't have a special needs child. I did, but we got professional help for him outside of school. We never used school resources (didn't trust them, to be honest). Our son has now moved past those developmental issues, and we have stopped paying for those sessions, but most families push that burden off onto the schools.

My question - should the entire populace be responsible for the care and feeding (and education) of a special needs child, even when our country is about to collapse financially? Should this responsibility be shifted back onto the family? Are we kidding ourselves, thinking that we can solve every problem for every person?

 

[pixiedust23]

I'm thrilled. Governor Christie was elected to fix things in this most corrupt state, and he's doing it. Kudos to him.

You wouldn't be saying this if you had a child in the NJ public school system. The public school education quality is about to go down. As for turf fields, yes they are being installed like wildfire. Unfortunately the people who don't get to make decisions and are not using budget money inappropriately are the ones, who are going to be hit hard: custodians, security, secretaries, and teachers.

 

[gina2000]

I don't know the answer to your question. I do know that schools have been forced to take on huge responsibilities for special needs students without the proper funding allocation.

Another situation schools are facing is the Abbott district dilemma. Several districts are receiving hundreds of million of dollars of aid in the hope that this will make a difference educationally. As a society we want equal opportunities for all, but when it begins to eat into a middle class school district's ability to educate, then it may be time to reevaluate.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

You wouldn't be saying this if you had a child in the NJ public school system. The public school education quality is about to go down...

I couldn't disagree more. School systems in other states spend 30%-40% less per student with better results.

Whatever happens, happens. We (my wife and I) will pick up the slack. I have never relied on the government for anything - including education. The tax and spend is killing our country and has to stop. If it doesn't, you will wish that it had - because a complete collapse of our economy will lead to revolution and widespread violence...

 

[eliza61]

There is a huge amount of waste in many, if not most or all, of our school districts and it is disturbing. I'm very curious to see how the schools are going to handle this, maybe they will stop the waste and tightened the purse straps like the rest of us do

I wouldn't mind that argument if he hadn't also given the casinoes in atlantic city a 330 million dollar tax credit. The casinoes have been getting tax credits since they opened on the lousy excuse that they hire but Atlantic city has not benefited one iota from the casinoes. So if they want trim the budget it be nice if they made the big companies pay up also.

He's also cutting funding to state colleges. so you'd better have big bucks if you want your kids to go to college in NJ. The first thing colleges do when they lose funding is not practice "fiscal responsibility" as people like to say but they cut aide and scholarships.

Overall not looking good for public school kids.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...Overall not looking good for public school kids.

Looking a whole lot better than it would in we keep going down this road that we are on. Our only hope is to stop spending more money than we have.

 

[eliza61]

Looking a whole lot better than it would in we keep going down this road that we are on. Our only hope is to stop spending more money than we have.

Agreed but why is it so one sided. why is he rolling out tax credits for people making over $440K a year? why are the casinoes get more tax credits if the budget is so bad? Why do they get tax credits but I don't get my property tax rebate this year

Under the proposal, no one will get a property tax rebate check this year to combat New Jersey's property taxes, the highest in the nation at an average $7,300 per household. When rebates return in the spring of 2011, senior citizens, the disabled and low-income wage earners will get a tax credit rather than a rebate check, and will get less than they received last year.

The proposal also "freezes" a rebate program that allowed low-income senior and disabled citizens to lock into property tax rates when they enroll in the program. Those already in the program will continue to keep those rates but no one else is allowed to join.

seems like the low income citizens must be the ones who pay the piper.

Rich folks will simply send their kids to private school (ie Christie) so of course it looks good to them.

 

[scanne]

I'm in a K-8 district as a music teacher.
My job is in jeopardy if the budget doesn't pass.

We're losing over $1million in funds from the state. This translates to laying off all teacher aides, cafeteria help, part-time teachers and 11-15 full time TENURED teachers, elimination of sports, music, extra-curricular programs like homework club, National Junior Honor Society and more.

I've been teaching in my district for 12 years. I am devastated at the prospect of losing my job because it's going to mean that we're going to have to sell our house or go into foreclosure/bankruptcy or move out of state (which I'm not opposed to, but I have two young children with friends here and they'd be heartbroken) or collect unemployment or get some kind of job that would cover our bills. Forget vacations, eating out, gifts for the kids, birthday parties....I mean things we take for granted will now be things we struggle to do.

Christie should cut salaries of the top paid people in his office AND tax their earnings. Why do the middle class suffer for their greed!?!?

The children of the state of NJ are going to be in larger classes, which will not be a good thing. They will lose the opportunity for sports and music programs that allow students to reach goals and even earn college scholarships for their abilities.

Don't think "oh 5% is not a lot." It's a lot and enough to make education in the state plummet!

It is really, really disheartening, frusturating and so, so sad.

 

[MM27]

I don't know how it works in your district but in mine when it said teachers got a 4% raise, they got a 4% raise. Secretaries have their own bargaining unit and their own contract and negotiate their own raises as do the custodians.

I explained how my district and many others in the state do their contracts. 4% does not mean every teacher gets that amount. People use that 4% to support their opinion that teachers always get great deals. The truth is, many people don't know how schools really work. 4% is the total when all is said and done. Even if you are only looking at teachers, there are some that get larger percentages than others on new contracts because they increase some steps more than others. My district, on our last contract, increased the starting salary so those people on the lower steps got the highest percent increases. The people that have been there fore 25+ years got the smallest increase. The BOE figures those people aren't going anywhere so they use the money to attract new teachers.

Christie doesn't care about public education in NJ. His own kids go to private school.