News Round Up

[rteetz]

2017 is gearing up to be a big year in the Orlando theme park market...

On Disney you have Toy Story Land and Avatar preparing to launch.

Universal has Volcano Bay, Jimmy Fallon, and Fast and Furious.

I am curious to know what effect, if any, China will have on Universal's Orlando investments. Disney's investments dropped like a rock as Shanghai spending revved up. Now Disney is finishing up their Shanghai work, and are preparing to dump big money into WDW and Disneyland which have been their growth drivers. Universal has been pouring the cash into their Orlando parks is only now starting their China park, not to mention their extremely aggressive Japanese upgrade plan they're beginning. I wonder if they're going to pull up for a while.

This does seem like a really bad time to stop their big projects though. Disney is starting to get serious on both coasts with 6 themed lands openeing between the two coasts. It'll be interesting to watch.

It'll also be interesting to watch as they're really catching onto this fad of IP themed lands.

The next 3-5 years are going to be huge in Orlando.

 

[skier_pete]

2017 is gearing up to be a big year in the Orlando theme park market...

On Disney you have Toy Story Land and Avatar preparing to launch.

Universal has Volcano Bay, Jimmy Fallon, and Fast and Furious..

So why aren't people ripping Universal apart for taking out existing rides and replacing them. Fast and Furious and Jimmy Fallon both replacing existing attractions. Disney would be getting ripped for that.

(Not saying Universal SHOULD be ripped for it, I just think there is a different standard held by theme park fans for Universal versus Disney. If Disney pulled the bullcrap that Universal did with the Hogwart's Express - making a ride that forces you to upgrade your park ticket to ride - they would be crucified on here - yet when Universal does it, they are just being "competitive".

 

[wareagle57]

Talk about a ride concept destined to become dated really soon. Maybe it'll be a ride easy to replace or with interchangeable features.

No more so than Ellen/Bill Nye.

 

[rteetz]

So why aren't people ripping Universal apart for taking out existing rides and replacing them. Fast and Furious and Jimmy Fallon both replacing existing attractions. Disney would be getting ripped for that.

(Not saying Universal SHOULD be ripped for it, I just think there is a different standard held by theme park fans for Universal versus Disney. If Disney pulled the bullcrap that Universal did with the Hogwart's Express - making a ride that forces you to upgrade your park ticket to ride - they would be crucified on here - yet when Universal does it, they are just being "competitive".

I did see some people on Twitter complaining about the jimmy Fallon attraction. One person compared it to frozen in Norway and universal Twitter replied to that with some comment like let it go or something along those lines.

 

[luisov]

No more so than Ellen/Bill Nye.

And we know where the Ellen attraction stands right now

 

[jlundeen]

And we know where the Ellen attraction stands right now

Hey, I got a nice nap last week on that ride...

 

[rteetz]

Castle forecourt construction

http://www.wdwmagic.com/attractions...-cinderella-castle-forecourt-construction.htm

 

[LittleDreamer]

Jimmy Fallon attraction confirmed for universal Orlando. Opening in 2017, Twister closes November 2, 2015.

There have been recent rumors that NBC is very concerned about Jimmy Fallon's partying ways; to the point they are considering an intervention. If they are planning on making him a face of the network stories of his antics could cause problems.

So why aren't people ripping Universal apart for taking out existing rides and replacing them. Fast and Furious and Jimmy Fallon both replacing existing attractions. Disney would be getting ripped for that.

I think this is just a matter of perception. Disney has a much stronger legacy and people seem to form stronger attachments to Disney attractions. I think Forbidden Journey was really the first one to achieve this attachment for a wide enough audience (I would say Spiderman but due to it's dated look I think people see it as a technical milestone instead of a classic ride). With WDW the perception is that they have so much land, why couldn't they build it elsewhere. Where as in DL it's just seen as Walt's Park and changes are seen as losing Walt. When it came to changing almost all of DCA I didn't really hear much complaining but maybe I just wasn't listening.

 

[rteetz]

There have been recent rumors that NBC is very concerned about Jimmy Fallon's partying ways; to the point they are considering an intervention. If they are planning on making him a face of the network

I haven't seen those rumors. I am a fan of Fallon and like him better than the rest of the late night people. I don't know how I feel about an attraction tho.

 

[rteetz]

New Aulani merchandise

http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/bl...se-collections-at-aulani-a-disney-resort-spa/

 

[skier_pete]

Universal has a constant issue with "timelessness". Pretty much anything they build feels dated within 10-15 years. Islands of Adventure was a bit of a stab at trying to eliminate that feel, and I guess some of the lands work well that way - but even something like "Toon Lagoon" has a bit of a cheapness to it. Harry Potter land might be the first time that they really nailed something that'll be timeless, though I would maybe argue that Suess Landing also has that. Even "Transformers" seems very dated to me, even though I know it's only a year old. The "Transformers" movies seem irrelevant in 2015.

Anyways, the Universal Studios park in particular struggles with this constantly. Answering my own question - the main reason why no one minds that FatF and Fallon are going into existing attractions is that no one really considered Twister or Earthquake (or whatever it is) something that HAS to stay.

What I find funny is that not having been to US park since 1997 - not only will the park be entirely new to me when we go next time, there will be many rides that were there and GONE before we came back. I was actually sort of looking forward to seeing Twister, but it looks like if we go late next year we will miss it completely, but instead we won't see the Fallon thing because it won't be open. With luck we will have FatF open by then. (Another IP that feels like it's getting past its prime just in time to get a ride of its own.)

 

[Whatsthegoodword]

So why aren't people ripping Universal apart for taking out existing rides and replacing them. Fast and Furious and Jimmy Fallon both replacing existing attractions. Disney would be getting ripped for that.

(Not saying Universal SHOULD be ripped for it, I just think there is a different standard held by theme park fans for Universal versus Disney. If Disney pulled the bullcrap that Universal did with the Hogwart's Express - making a ride that forces you to upgrade your park ticket to ride - they would be crucified on here - yet when Universal does it, they are just being "competitive".

I agree with the sentiment here, but this is actually a problem for Universal, and a very good thing for Disney World. WDW is a cultural institution. It retells us the stories of our childhood, and many that we will never tire of. That's why WDW, and Disney as a whole, are as powerful as they are. ...it's also why we freak out when they take a piece of our childhood (for me, 20,000 Leagues and Mr. Toad) and dispose of it.

At the end of the day, Universal is a glorified Six Flags. They appeal to the thrill seeker, and grab hold of whatever is popular for the moment in pop culture - no matter how crass it is - and build an attraction. Twister? REALLY?? Or, they pick up the cultural leftovers after Disney sets the pace: Dudley Do-Right, Dr. Seuss. WWoHP is the first thing they have ever built that is not disposable, although really they followed the same formula there as well. I think that finally, they found a winner though in the case of Harry Potter. ...and even then only after Disney (mistakenly) passed.

Look - now Disney is beating Universal at their own game. Take Marvel for example. Not too long ago, that was Universal's strong suit. Disney owns it now - and not only did they buy the rights, but they are making household names of second and third tier Marvel characters that Universal probably never thought of. I suspect that's the next step at MGM after Star Wars & Toy Story: Marvel. By then they'll know who of their IPs has sunk into the cultural consciousness, and who hasn't...

 

[rteetz]

I agree with the sentiment here, but this is actually a problem for Universal, and a very good thing for Disney World. WDW is a cultural institution. It retells us the stories of our childhood, and many that we will never tire of. That's why WDW, and Disney as a whole, are as powerful as they are. ...it's also why we freak out when they take a piece of our childhood (for me, 20,000 Leagues and Mr. Toad) and dispose of it.

At the end of the day, Universal is a glorified Six Flags. They appeal to the thrill seeker, and grab hold of whatever is popular for the moment in pop culture - no matter how crass it is - and build an attraction. Twister? REALLY?? Or, they pick up the cultural leftovers after Disney sets the pace: Dudley Do-Right, Dr. Seuss. WWoHP is the first thing they have ever built that is not disposable, although really they followed the same formula there as well. I think that finally, they found a winner though in the case of Harry Potter. ...and even then only after Disney (mistakenly) passed.

Look - now Disney is beating Universal at their own game. Take Marvel for example. Not too long ago, that was Universal's strong suit. Disney owns it now - and not only did they buy the rights, but they are making household names of second and third tier Marvel characters that Universal probably never thought of. I suspect that's the next step at MGM after Star Wars & Toy Story: Marvel. By then they'll know who of their IPs has sunk into the cultural consciousness, and who hasn't...

Now I have never been to universal but I actually have to disagree that they are a glorified six flags. I think 5-10 years ago definitely they were a glorified six flags. But you now have to look at what has happened since then and who their owners are. Comcast is a major cable company and understands they nose to put money into their parks in order to make money. Previous universal owners did not care for the parks as much leading to the reputation you have of universal parks. Comcast saw just how much the parks mean in the terms of revenue and are using that to their advantages. Harry Potter is really what changed universal and how many people look at them. Universal just revamped their entire City Walk, is building hotels as fast as they can, Kong is coming, Volcano Bay is coming, and then there are plenty of rumors for a third park. Universal/Comcast is on record saying they are going to be doing major things for the next five years at least.

Yes Disney owns Marvel but Universal owns the park rights east of the Mississippi. That means Universal can build what they want with the characters under the contract including using the new movies. Universal is currently redoing their Hulk coaster, and there are plenty of rumors for a avengers attraction coming soon.

 

[eXo]

2017 is gearing up to be a big year in the Orlando theme park market...

On Disney you have Toy Story Land and Avatar preparing to launch.

I am beginning to doubt we have Toy Story land by 2017. Late 2018 seems much more likely. Does anyone here honestly think they can have the slinky dog coaster, a second or third ride as well as all the merch, food, and support buildings done in only 2 years? That seems a bit... ambitious... especially when we are talking about Disney here.

 

[rteetz]

I am beginning to doubt we have Toy Story land by 2017. Late 2018 seems much more likely. Does anyone here honestly think they can have the slinky dog coaster, a second or third ride as well as all the merch, food, and support buildings done in only 2 years? That seems a bit... ambitious... especially when we are talking about Disney here.

I think they can do it. Disney can be fast when they want to just look at DVC construction or the flex theater. The slinky coaster is relatively off the shelf with just a specially designed ride vehicle, the spinner attraction is supposed to be the same as mater's in carsland. I'm looking at late 2017 early 2018.

 

[eXo]

At the end of the day, Universal is a glorified Six Flags. They appeal to the thrill seeker, and grab hold of whatever is popular for the moment in pop culture - no matter how crass it is - and build an attraction. Twister? REALLY?? Or, they pick up the cultural leftovers after Disney sets the pace: Dudley Do-Right, Dr. Seuss. WWoHP is the first thing they have ever built that is not disposable, although really they followed the same formula there as well. I think that finally, they found a winner though in the case of Harry Potter. ...and even then only after Disney (mistakenly) passed.

Look - now Disney is beating Universal at their own game. Take Marvel for example. Not too long ago, that was Universal's strong suit. Disney owns it now - and not only did they buy the rights, but they are making household names of second and third tier Marvel characters that Universal probably never thought of. I suspect that's the next step at MGM after Star Wars & Toy Story: Marvel. By then they'll know who of their IPs has sunk into the cultural consciousness, and who hasn't...

The number of problems and giant assumptions here are mind boggling.

A "glorified six flags"? Your disney fanboyism is showing, zip up your fly. Have you ever been to a Six Flags? It has zero themeing. Zero. The technology at a 6 flags is limited to roller coaster, spinning ride, and kids ride. Throw in an elevated swing and maybe a superman drop tower, and there ya have it.

The idea that Universal is only for thrill seekers is incredibly misplaced. The only thrill ride at USF is Rockin Roller Coaster. That's it. The Mummy and Escape From Gringotts are pretty mild rides. No worse than Big Thunder. Over at IOA you have the Hulk, Dragon Challenge, and Doom Drop. Forbidden Journey has a somewhat high height requirement, but isn't exactly a "thrill ride" by any stretch of the definition. The height is due to the seat size and motion of the KUKA arm. Every single other ride is perfectly fine for an adventurous 5 year old (I know, because my 5 year old has done it all). I actually made a list of all the rides that she could do before I took her last time, and was surprised myself how much there was for her age.

You laud Disney for making names out of second and third tier Marvel characters? I hate to break it to you, but Universal ONLY owns the rights to rides on the eastern half of the US. They can't just go and make a marvel movie and build a ride based on it. You seem to think that Universal could have made Guardians of the Galaxy or something else to add value or redefine Marvel characters. Disney isn't "beating them at their own game". Universal can't make marvel movies and never could.

The biggest weakness at IoA is Toon Lagoon. Marvel Island, Seussland, JP, HP, and even the remnants of the Mythic area all stand strong. Over at USF things do change on a regular basis. It's called "a different business model". The irony is, the one ride that would likely cause the biggest uproar if it got pulled is E.T. One of the weakest rides there. But it is important to folks because many of them rode it as kids. As soon as people grow up and put their rose colored glasses on, everything from their past becomes an untouchable idol. Disney faces this for two prime reasons. One, they have been around so long. Two, more of their rides are designed for mass family throughput. While a 5 year old CAN ride a ton of stuff at Universal, many may choose not to. I love Disney and all, but there was a time when the rides over relied on sitting in a boat\buggy and moving slowly through a dark ride. It was safe, easy to replicate, and any age or size could ride it.

Let me wrap it up like this. If Small World was built tomorrow, what would the world's response to it be? Hint: negative. It's popular because people grew up on it, and introduce their kids to it, and then they grow up on it. For adults who ride it for the first time, there is an assumed value attached to it due to its age. In other words - it gets a free pass. Universal doesn't rely on that. They rebuild. They aren't trying to create an alter to your childhood where you can go back and ride a really dated Jaws or King Kong ride just because you did as a kid. Their busines smodel is to reinvent and keep giving families new reasons to come back

 

[eXo]

I think they can do it. Disney can be fast when they want to just look at DVC construction or the flex theater. The slinky coaster is relatively off the shelf with just a specially designed ride vehicle, the spinner attraction is supposed to be the same as mater's in carsland. I'm looking at late 2017 early 2018.

I would say it was too soon for anyone, even Universal. Diagon Alley took three years and that seems to be about he same size as Toy Story land. Believe me - I'd love to see it in 2017, but I am tempering my expectations.

 

[DDLand]

So why aren't people ripping Universal apart for taking out existing rides and replacing them. Fast and Furious and Jimmy Fallon both replacing existing attractions. Disney would be getting ripped for that.

(Not saying Universal SHOULD be ripped for it, I just think there is a different standard held by theme park fans for Universal versus Disney. If Disney pulled the bullcrap that Universal did with the Hogwart's Express - making a ride that forces you to upgrade your park ticket to ride - they would be crucified on here - yet when Universal does it, they are just being "competitive".

I can't speak to your exact concern from experience, because I try to be forward thinking, but I'd say there are a few things...
1) When Universal replaces something they replace it in a timely manor. People still remember Horizons, World of Motion, and Pleasure Island. While I personnly don't subscribe to the notion Disney is really bad about this unless there's a reason, some do. The thought that a classic could go away and not be replaced for a lengthy period of time scares people.
2) Universal is great about always replacing classics. Disney has occasionally shuttered and not replaced. This further creates distrust.
3) Universal always replaces with amazing attractions. Some people look at the NF or Frozen trades we made and are unsatisfied. While that doesn't represent the majority of guests, the fan community surely finds them of equal or lower quality to previous offerings.
4) WDI is very proud (some may call it snobby, though is it snobby when it's true?) about their design, artistic, and story choices. They sell their lands as all reinforcing one story arc that will excite and delight. When they then turn around and shoehorn attractions that don't fit in that stinks, and really upsets fans. Whereas Universal is less militant about their design. People are willing to accept inconsistencies because they don't sell themselves as any different. *

I don't know if I've captured most of the sentiments or opinions, but I do think this is a large part of it. Also Disney is older, and many of the attractions people grew up with are really special. That makes people ultra protective.

*I will qualify that as saying the times are changing and Universal is going more into Disney's turf. Imagine putting a Shrek attraction in HP. That would create enormous outcry.

 

[rteetz]

I would say it was too soon for anyone, even Universal. Diagon Alley took three years and that seems to be about he same size as Toy Story land. Believe me - I'd love to see it in 2017, but I am tempering my expectations.

But diagonalley included a train and a major attraction. Toy story is just off the shelf type rides that's why I think it could be done.

 

[skier_pete]

A few lively conversations going on. Though I am not a big-time Universal fan - they are way more than a glorified Six Flags. The point they hit the big time to me was Islands of Adventure. In some ways - they out-did Disney there,

BUT - that said it is a focus on thrill rides - regardless of what @eXo says. Perhaps your 5-year old will go on all those rides, but my 12-year old who just got the courage to go on Dinosaur won't. We're just planning a trip to Universal, because up until now she wouldn't go on at LEAST half the rides there. (I'm not completely sure she'll go on half the rides now.)

Disney IMO is making an error in getting away from tying it's rides to IPs, because it DOES make it harder to make a ride "timeless". Though sometimes they succeed anyways. It's much easier to do that with things that are evergreen - such as many of the Disney cartoons are. The fact that they could build a new ride based on a 75 year old movie is astounding. UNiversals oldest stuff is from what the nineties now?

Back to Toy Story Land - I think it is completely possible they could have it completed by the end of 2017 - but Disney's track record of late has not been so could with a fast turnaround like this. The one indication that may say it's coming quick is that they are claiming they will start Star Wars land construction in 2016. If that's the case, there's going to be even less going on in that park a year from now - and they may need that new land quick to not have interest in DHS fall into a sinkhole. That park is going to take a massive attendance hit with all this construction combined with the opening of Pandora over at DAK. However, what is described in Toy Story land is a NOT a concept with as much detail or as much space as say a Carsland or StarWars land.