News: Disneyland Hotel Villas to have Resale Restrictions

[BWV Dreamin]

Riviera resale is priced like Beach Club, a similarly located resort with much smaller rooms, no views, and ~30 fewer years. So I will just say i disagree.

Just saw a RR resale contract 275 pts. pass ROFR at $115/pt.….

 

[wilkydelts]

Riviera is not holding its resale value. It is already less than Grand Floridian and Polynesian on average. Both those resorts have less years and one is all studios.

 

[Nursemanit]

Riviera is not holding its resale value. It is already less than Grand Floridian and Polynesian on average. Both those resorts have less years and one is all studios.

Is it walking distance to a theme park ? Are all resorts equal in value ? THe price is not the question it is the drop in value from purchase to sale.


If you buy Poly direct today as many did last month at $250 you will get around $152 if you sold it that drop is more than Riv

VGF is holding better than RR

SSR is doing way worse losing almost 50% so is it the restrictions? Oh wait there are none

I wanted ( and use to argue the same point ) that restrictions would tank the value but Math .....

 

[RoseGold]

It wouldn't have mattered if VGC had resale restrictions, nobody was buying it as SAP. It won't matter for VDH either.

I still think this could be a good buy if you want to buy direct, restricted points but maintain resale value. I'd pick it over RIV for sure.

 

[wilkydelts]

Is it walking distance to a theme park ? Are all resorts equal in value ? THe price is not the question it is the drop in value from purchase to sale.


If you buy Poly direct today as many did last month at $250 you will get around $152 if you sold it that drop is more than Riv

VGF is holding better than RR

SSR is doing way worse losing almost 50% so is it the restrictions? Oh wait there are none

I wanted ( and use to argue the same point ) that restrictions would tank the value but Math .....

Using a sold out resort to make your "math" argument is the most flawed logic ever. The fact is you get more years and a more recently built resort when you buy Riviera but resale is currently going for the price of Beach Club that only has 19 years left. That is not holding its value.

 

[zavandor]

If you buy Poly direct today as many did last month at $250 you will get around $152 if you sold it that drop is more than Riv

VGF is holding better than RR

SSR is doing way worse losing almost 50% so is it the restrictions? Oh wait there are none

You're comparing the Poly "Sold out" price to the RR active sale price. Once a resort sells out, DVC immediately increase the the price by a lot, to discourage more sales. They still sell some, but with a huge premium. RR is still in active sales and the resale price has already dropped to $115/pt, it might shows already an effect caused by the restrictions.
But the real question is what will happen in 10 years time, when a lot more resale contracts will hit the market.

 

[Nursemanit]

You're comparing the Poly "Sold out" price to the RR active sale price. Once a resort sells out, DVC immediately increase the the price by a lot, to discourage more sales. They still sell some, but with a huge premium. RR is still in active sales and the resale price has already dropped to $115/pt, it might shows already an effect caused by the restrictions.
But the real question is what will happen in 10 years time, when a lot more resale contracts will hit the market.

That has no relationship to the equation

If you go to Disney and say I will give you 217 per point for Poly - they will say no it is 250. And 10k points were sold at that price - so it is not unrealistic.

The math still stands

 

[Nursemanit]

Using a sold out resort to make your "math" argument is the most flawed logic ever. The fact is you get more years and a more recently built resort when you buy Riviera but resale is currently going for the price of Beach Club that only has 19 years left.

As I said - SSR has more years than beach club and yet drops 50% on resale - so it may be the location and not the restrictions cause the resorts to drop and that is why RR does better than SSR but worse than VGF

Sold out or sales price makes no difference as long as people are buying the resort at the sold out price like they are with most of them. Like it or not that is the direct price - you can’t get direct points for 217 at poly

 

[Ruttangel]

So, if DVC bought a resale RIV or VDH in ROFR does that allow them to sell it back direct without restriction, just add it to a pool of points and move on? Any legal issues for them to conside?

 

[intamin]

So, if DVC bought a resale RIV or VDH in ROFR does that allow them to sell it back direct without restriction, just add it to a pool of points and move on? Any legal issues for them to conside?

Correct, they resell those points without any restrictions. No legal issues. I imagine this is a big reason why they put the restrictions in place to begin with TBH. It essentially gives them a much bigger profit margin when they ROFR their own properties.

 

[Sandisw]

Using a sold out resort to make your "math" argument is the most flawed logic ever. The fact is you get more years and a more recently built resort when you buy Riviera but resale is currently going for the price of Beach Club that only has 19 years left. That is not holding its value.

Here is all we know about RIV. I think it’s doing pretty well considering it is a one resort only product. It commands more than several resorts out there, that can trade, and given that every Resort out there has fallen in the past 4 months since ROFR stopped…even VGF has been reported at $130…lower than some RIVs that have sold…I don’t think we can look at lower RIV and pretend that is the only one that is lower.

I tried to buy over 6 contracts recently there for less than $120…they ranged from 75 to 100 points…got turned down for all…and they all ended up selling for more than $130…so, it is doing fine for an active sales resort…based on history, we would expect about a 30% discount between direct active sales and resale prices until it sells out….it’s not far off that right now.

Right now, it’s still selling, on average within $10 -$15/point less than some of the PVB, BLT, CCV, Poly and VGF sales we are seeing…VGF has took a pretty big tumble in the resale market since it went back into active sales….down over $30/ point since prior to March 2022.

Now, we certainly don’t know what will happen in 5 years when more contracts are for sale, and fewer sellers may need to bring money to the table,

I readily admit that it might command a bit more without restrictions, but I do not think the restrictions were the price killer that most of us, including me, thought it would be before it started selling….people Are willing to pay in the $130s for it…which, at least IMO, is pretty good since I paid $162 direct for it in 2019.

I will say you can’t use BCV…that is a unique resort and commands what it does because it is, quite frankly BCV…and people want it.

BRV is the same length, similar point charts, and yet it sells below BCV and RIV. So, I think that there are many factors that go into resale pricing that you can’t say it’s just X. Or Y.

 

[tom1944]

I strongly believe as more resorts come online with the same restrictions as Riviera we will see all of this balance out.

As I said earlier if Poly2 is a new association with resale restrictions I will look at Riviera differently than I do now.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

Using a sold out resort to make your "math" argument is the most flawed logic ever. The fact is you get more years and a more recently built resort when you buy Riviera but resale is currently going for the price of Beach Club that only has 19 years left. That is not holding its value.

No don’t you see clearly CCV was holding its value incredibly well in mid 2020 when it was $195 new but then when they raised the price to $225 a week later it held its value terribly.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

That has no relationship to the equation

If you go to Disney and say I will give you 217 per point for Poly - they will say no it is 250. And 10k points were sold at that price - so it is not unrealistic.

The math still stands

No one is arguing your ability to do division , the logic behind the math is the issue here.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

I strongly believe as more resorts come online with the same restrictions as Riviera we will see all of this balance out.

I think that will be true to some extent in 10-15 years, but there will still be a substantial premium (when considering years left on the contract) for the resorts that let you stay in multiple locations.

 

[RoseGold]

So, if DVC bought a resale RIV or VDH in ROFR does that allow them to sell it back direct without restriction, just add it to a pool of points and move on? Any legal issues for them to conside?

Yes, that's the point of the whole thing.

It's also kind of why Disney ROFRs so much OKW, and it's overpriced in resale. Disney extends it and sells it direct.

 

[take36]

Riviera is not holding its resale value. It is already less than Grand Floridian and Polynesian on average. Both those resorts have less years and one is all studios.

We Disney fans love new and shiny and will jump to the next new and pretty thing Disney offers unless it has that iconic and nostalgia factor. Riviera simply isn't on the level of GFlo and Poly despite its point chart. Gondolas vs monorail/walk/boat, nostalgia, and iconic status. Most DVC/disney fans if given the choice one resort to stay for the rest of their lives or free DVC points are going to pick GFlo and Poly over RR. RR has its diehard fans but the people buying resale have much to consider with the restrictions especially if they are first time buyers.

 

[Sandisw]

I think that will be true to some extent in 10-15 years, but there will still be a substantial premium (when considering years left on the contract) for the resorts that let you stay in multiple locations.

Not for SSR, AKV, and OKW…those are selling for less, in some cases, much less….but then doesn’t that support maybe one thing?

Just like it does with direct sales…restrictions in and of themselves, are simply one feature in choosing what to buy and that every resort has pros and cons that go into setting its price.

RIV sold really well against VGF direct when it’s price was less…now, they reversed it and VGF is doing better…relatively as sales are not great.

It would seem we might be all able to agree that every resort has something that leads people to walk away from it.

 

[I Run Long]

I thought the same way as you but if the new Poly resort is its own association with restrictions I will review the point chart and seriously consider buying the points needed for alternate year stays there and Riviera.

I can use my SSR resale points the off years.


I am 65 but my daughter will be on every contract.

I think the Poly will be a new association - should that be the case, I would still wait until contracts for the new Poly show up on the resale sites and buy it then if I wanted it. But I can certainly see why it would work for you. My kids don't want to be on our contract since they don't want to be saddled with dues they potentially can't afford - at least right now. That, of course, could change and if it does I'll add them. If they are interested in other resorts that are restricted then that's up to them to purchase them - not me. If I win the lottery - all bets are off!

 

[wilkydelts]

@Sandisw - I did not say that Riviera is tanking or bottoming out, I said it is not holding its value and relative to newness and years remaining on the contract it is not holding what should be the "value"

@Nursemanit - you just keep fighting those windmills, the rest of us will be alright