New Security Measures At The Parks

[kamik86]

I'm the first to admit I don't know what I'm talking about. But as I was reading these posts I began to wonder if someone could retrofit a bubble gun or buzz blaster into a weapon? There must be some reason why WDW would make these decisions. It's hurting their bottom like to restrict the sale of these toys, so there must be some logic behind it.

Along the same line, if we saw an adult in a Disney costume use a door into a restricted area we would think nothing of it. Yet it could be disasterous if it was not an authorized person. There are reasons why these decisions are made. I'm not sure what they are, but it's not my business to know.

If someone wants to enough you can retrofit anything into a weapon. Not necessarily a traditional gun but a weapon would be easy enough.

 

[Jennasis]

See I find this sentiment a bit dangerous. History has shown that those "in charge" or the "experts" don't always have the best interests of the population in mind. I'm very glad people have ask why and questioned the government, corporations, etc.

I feel that there is no way to ever be truly safe from everything and that at some point you need to just live your life and hope your not in the wrong place at the wrong time when one of these bad things happen. Yeah you can completely change how you do everything and reduce the risk, but the risk is already statistically so small is it really worth it?

I don't consider any of these changes to be changing the way I do everything or impacting my life in any way. If the time comes that I changes are enacted by my vacation destination that cause me to feel differently then we'll see what happens.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

twomisfits -I am disabled and I disagree. Statistics show I am more likely to be shot in the US ( guns allowed) than in the UK (no guns) - I need no further information to draw my conclusions.

Sorry, but this just isn't true.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

Wrong - quote from UK crime stats "Homicide Index is covered by the de-designation of all data based on police recorded crime". Not now based on convictions and hasn't been for over 10 years It also now includes (murder, manslaughter and infanticide). This is when someone is killed without plan ie a fight/ a car crash where rules broken - speeding ect thus should in fact bump up the uk stats.

But you need to understand the definition of police recorded crime in the UK. The way it's been explained to me is that isn't every crime they investigate. It is every one the prosecute, and the prosecution standards are very different than the US. It takes a lot more proof to have someone arrested and prosecuted.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

I think the appropriate term is sheeple.

ITA. The Ben Franklin quote upthread definitely applies. We should never just follow along and trust that the "experts" or "people in charge" know better than we do and have our best interest at heart. History has proven that untrue too many times.

 

[kamik86]

I don't consider any of these changes to be changing the way I do everything or impacting my life in any way. If the time comes that I changes are enacted by my vacation destination that cause me to feel differently then we'll see what happens.

Yes but history has also proven that people are smart enough to take away freedoms just a little at a time until people think that is just the way things are and accept them.

Maybe these changes aren't a big deal and aren't ones to really fight over. To me they aren't. However they are worth questioning why. I think as a society that people should always ask themselves why things are being done.

• Is this truly being done for security?
• Is this a disney CYA (cover your behind) so that if something does happen they don't get sued because "why didn't they DO something after someone tried to bring in a gun"? - Since I could argue the security they had was ok, someone tried to bring in a gun, they didn't bring in a gun.
• Is this something disney wanted to do anyway but found an excuse to do so? - I don't think so in this case
• Is this Disney bowing to public pressure to appear to be doing something? - How many threads have we seen asking about security in the past few weeks?

 

[mackay_j]

Yes but history has also proven that people are smart enough to take away freedoms just a little at a time until people think that is just the way things are and accept them.

Maybe these changes aren't a big deal and aren't ones to really fight over. To me they aren't. However they are worth questioning why. I think as a society that people should always ask themselves why things are being done.

• Is this truly being done for security?
• Is this a disney CYA (cover your behind) so that if something does happen they don't get sued because "why didn't they DO something after someone tried to bring in a gun"? - Since I could argue the security they had was ok, someone tried to bring in a gun, they didn't bring in a gun.
• Is this something disney wanted to do anyway but found an excuse to do so? - I don't think so in this case
• Is this Disney bowing to public pressure to appear to be doing something? - How many threads have we seen asking about security in the past few weeks?

This isn't some big government conspiracy - It's a Theme park nobody is being forced to do anything or go along with any new rules, no-ones liberty is being squashed here - It,s not like its being carried out at a school, hospital or any other place you must attend- If you don't like the new rules - spend your money somewhere else. I am actually starting to find this thread quite funny - think about it - It a theme park lol

 

[SparklePixie]

I'm the first to admit I don't know what I'm talking about. But as I was reading these posts I began to wonder if someone could retrofit a bubble gun or buzz blaster into a weapon? There must be some reason why WDW would make these decisions. It's hurting their bottom like to restrict the sale of these toys, so there must be some logic behind it.

Along the same line, if we saw an adult in a Disney costume use a door into a restricted area we would think nothing of it. Yet it could be disasterous if it was not an authorized person. There are reasons why these decisions are made. I'm not sure what they are, but it's not my business to know.

If someone is truly intent on causing harm, they will find a way, no matter what security measures may be in place.

 

[mackay_j]

But you need to understand the definition of police recorded crime in the UK. The way it's been explained to me is that isn't every crime they investigate. It is every one the prosecute, and the prosecution standards are very different than the US. It takes a lot more proof to have someone arrested and prosecuted.

I think you have misinterpreted what you were told. Believe me I know this - Here goes I will keep it basic but factual- It is not every time they get a call (report) as you can imagine some of the calls we get are even hoaxes- however, it is also not when a prosecution takes place. We don't go around ignoring dead victims just because we can't find the murderer lol. It is when a decision that a crime has been made and has to be investigated. Do you get it now! I really can't make it any simpler. There is not a mountain of stab/ gunshot victims sitting somewhere unaccounted for, as we cannot release the bodies to have a funeral until the the cause of death is established - Once that is documented - they count in the stats.

 

[blondietink]

If someone is truly intent on causing harm, they will find a way, no matter what security measures may be in place.

This!

 

[JaxDad]

If someone is truly intent on causing harm, they will find a way, no matter what security measures may be in place.

Ultimately, when someone does cause harm, others are also held responsible, legally and financially, for not anticipating and preventing the harm in the best way they could have reasonably done so. If the person(s) responsible for the safety of the millions of people visiting the theme parks received a warning about potential threats, what should they do? If they maintain the status quo and something happens consistent with the potential threat, would they say "Oh well, it really didn't matter what I did?" After such an event, what would law enforcement and the horde of personal injury lawyers say? I'm pretty sure they would say something like, "You were warned about this potential threat. What did you do differently to reduce risk for you customers?"

 

[lugnut33]

I sent my daughter to Sweden for her senior year in high school and I felt like she was way more safe there than if I had sent her away to live in Orlando (a concealed carry state).

That said, I'm still looking for more updates from people in the parks. Interesting to know they are up to 4 scanners now at MK.

 

[Planogirl]

This might only be about a themepark but that is what we're here to discuss. Taking away toy guns doesn't affect me at all but I find it odd and wonder what the point is. I also wonder what will indeed be next.

 

[wfjny]

Sadly, I am drawn into this conversation like a train wreck.

First, when it comes to guns, I believe Disney’s policy was at some point along the lines of don’t ask, don’t tell. If your weapon was concealed on you (not in a bag, but on your person), there was no signage telling you not to bring it. However, if it was noticed (and therefore clearly not concealed), then you would be asked to lock it up, or asked to leave. Again, Disney security used to have lockers. I do not know what their stance is today (or in the past few years). However, I have noticed people carrying in the parks in the past.

However, many people, even those authorized to carry a weapon for a variety of reasons, do not carry inside of Disney. Several reasons, including too many people, and in a place where everything is fake, you do not know what your backstop is, or unwilling/unable to travel with a handgun. That brick wall is fake, there are no stones in the castle (all fiberglass), etc. You do not want to shoot and find out your bullet went thru what you thought was a solid rock wall. Not to mention, when it is 100 degrees out and 90% humidity (or was it 90 degrees and 100% humidity), even a small weapon can be hard to conceal.

For those NCIS fans out there, there is Gibb’s rule number 9, always carry a knife. We are not talking Crocodile Dundee here, but many people (including me) always carry a pocket knife. It is the Eagle Scout in me, be prepared. The use of metal detectors now changes things.

The fact that these were installed very quickly in multiple parks (Disney, Universal, Sea World) owned by multiple companies, in multiple locations (Orlando, Hollywood) is somewhat indicative of a change in the security posture. I do not know if there was a specific threat, but clearly they all decided to respond the same way to something very quickly.

As people have mentioned, this is private property. It is also not a necessity. You have a choice how to spend your entertainment dollars, and I suspect most people will not be changing their plans.

Sadly, if you are not already aware, all of this security is in the end only for show. There are several different types of incidents that can happen, and this additional security only addresses one. It prevents an argument inside the park becoming a gun fight.

If someone wanted to kill a bunch of people, guess where they can get a large number of people? Get everyone who is lined up for security checks. I stood on-line for almost an hour at the Jet Blue security line in JFK. Hundreds of people, none of whom are armed because they are about to go thru security. Same at the NFL games. Now the same is true at all the theme parks.

In the end, I think you alone have to decide where you want to spend your entertainment dollars. Disney has made several changes over the past few years. Everything from removing the Disney Parks logo on their napkins, to changing the fastpass system, to raising ticket prices multiple times. Each time, I have heard people say “Well this is it, I am never going back!” Disney seems to have been posting record attendance quarter over quarter since 2013. Well, Disney does not actually post their numbers, but people have a good idea from some antidotal evidence as well as information provided by Disney’s investor relations.

I myself said it just last year as I had to wait in line for over an hour at customer relations to get our Annual Passes straightened out, after being told at the hotel we were “Good to Go” but being rejected after waiting for a while at the gate. Then we went four more times…

The point being, Disney will continue to do what they do, because frankly it is working. They are getting more and more visitors. They are increasing their revenue, and in many places, lowering their costs (look at some of the maintenance, or their contracting out of IT personnel). They may lose a few customers, but they are picking up more than they are losing.

 

[Jennasis]

Of course those intent on causing harm may find a way...but does that mean we should do nothing?

 

[Gracie09]

Of course those intent on causing harm may find a way...but does that mean we should do nothing?

seriously. Maybe we should remove napkin holders as you can hit someone on the head with them. Strings on balloons can be used to strangle someone. etc etc. There is absolutely no reason to carry a gun into Disney World. There is security all over the place, uniform and otherwise. Just because there is not big sign outside saying its not permitted doesn't mean it is. Even before this change guns and weapons were always listed on the list of prohibited items. They should not have to have a list of every conceivable prohibited item at the entrance.

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/faq/parks/restricted-personal-items/

 

[amylevan]

Of course those intent on causing harm may find a way...but does that mean we should do nothing?

I think it means that there should always be a risk versus reward discussion on every decision that is made "for our safety". And maybe there was, and maybe there is a serious risk with significant credibility that forced these decisions into place. I don't know and likely won't ever know. But I still feel it is our job to question and seek and not just accept that the authority in question is making the right decision. When we stop doing that, we start losing our freedoms.

And yes, I know that Disney is private property and they can do whatever they want and we can choose to go elsewhere and it really isn't our "freedom" at stake. I'm just speaking in generalities about the "does that mean we should do nothing" question.

 

[Jennasis]

I think it means that there should always be a risk versus reward discussion on every decision that is made "for our safety". And maybe there was, and maybe there is a serious risk with significant credibility that forced these decisions into place. I don't know and likely won't ever know. But I still feel it is our job to question and seek and not just accept that the authority in question is making the right decision. When we stop doing that, we start losing our freedoms.

And yes, I know that Disney is private property and they can do whatever they want and we can choose to go elsewhere and it really isn't our "freedom" at stake. I'm just speaking in generalities about the "does that mean we should do nothing" question.

That's the thing...question and seek all you want, but pretty sure nobody is going to tell you or me why. Not Disney. Certainly not the government. At least, not the whole truth. So what do we do then...when we get answer we don't like, or no answer at all? For Disney, you can just not go anymore. On the grander scale...I dunno?

 

[eeyoreandtink]

I think you have misinterpreted what you were told. Believe me I know this - Here goes I will keep it basic but factual- It is not every time they get a call (report) as you can imagine some of the calls we get are even hoaxes- however, it is also not when a prosecution takes place. We don't go around ignoring dead victims just because we can't find the murderer lol. It is when a decision that a crime has been made and has to be investigated. Do you get it now! I really can't make it any simpler. There is not a mountain of stab/ gunshot victims sitting somewhere unaccounted for, as we cannot release the bodies to have a funeral until the the cause of death is established - Once that is documented - they count in the stats.

So you are a member of law enforcement in the UK? You say "we" like you know first hand. Also, what statistics are you referring to when you say "the stats" and who is publishing them? What criteria are they using to gather their data?

 

[HopperFan]

What I do know what Disney uses.... there are tracking devices in those magic bands. When my DH & DD rode the Dwarf train, there was a video of them on that ride and they did not scan their bands after the ride. Disney does not need facial recognition software, they know where you are all the time in the parks.

No they don't. Magic bands are not a requirement. Off site guests use plastic tickets, unless they choose to purchase a magic band.

Not sure but I thought it was strange how there was a video of their train ride when it was not a fast pass nor did he or she scanned period. There is a tracking device in the magic bands.

I recall reading in the stores the. Distances for the RFID capabilities in the bands versus the RFID in plastic tickets. It seemed to me it was quite a bit longer for the bands to 'enhance the visit' I personally will not use them. Use the regular ticket and keep in my RFID protected wallet.

Yes, you are tracked while wearing the bands. You aren't when using plastic tickets, which many guests still use instead of bands.

Just to clarify:

MagicBands have two versions of RFID in them. Passive and Active. The passive is the chip that needs almost direct touching to scanners for tickets, FP+, charging, dining plan, room key, gate operation. The active is the chip that needs to be in close proximity so that is where the ride photos come into play. This chip is only in MB because it needs a battery. This is the chip Disney will use more in the future for interactive experiences, knowing approximately where you are for working crowd flows etc. Complicated usage but will pay off in long run. Predict in future guests wearing these will receive more spontaneous offers of FP+, discounts at restaurants needing to be filled etc. Offering bonuses to those who wear may increase the usage of the MB by offsite guests.

Hard Tickets have only the Passive RFID chip in them. So they can not pick up where you are, so you can't get ride photos unless you tap. These will not help Disney in the "tracking" process. This will not help the guest in receiving any special offers.