New Security Measures At The Parks

[JLTraveling]

I just read the entire thread, and I have a serious question for those of you with the "security at any cost" mindset. An overarching theme in your arguments seems to be, if it saves just one person's life, it's worth any hassle/headache/violation of civil liberties. But where does it end for you? What's your line in the sand, personally? Right now, it's new metal detectors. What if they move up to full body scanners? TSA grope-downs? Strip searches? Body cavity searches? Forcing everyone to walk around the parks naked, wearing/carrying nothing but a Magic Band?

I know, I know. "It's hyperbole. Disney would never do that! You're just trying to incite fear!" But let's take a step back to September 10, 2001. What if someone had informed you on that day that you would have to go through a bag check, and possibly a metal detector, just to walk into the Magic Kingdom? Or take your shoes off and possibly be groped just to get to a gate at the airport? Then some very bad people did some unthinkable things, and suddenly our civil liberties were unimportant, in the name of "safety." But people had their limits. I remember having this exact debate about bag checks back then. Some people argued that it wouldn't make us much, if any, safer, and a whole lot of people claimed that it would. "Besides," went the argument, "it's not really invasive. It's not like a metal detector." Ditto at airports. Back then, it was, "so the government is taking over airport security. It'll be more streamlined, probably safer, but it's basically still like it was before. It's not like we have to take off our shoes or get patted down or anything." Then someone tried to blow up a plane with his shoes (and was unsuccessful, by the way). "Well, we have to catch people who try to blow up their shoes. I have no problem walking through security barefoot." And liquid bans and nude-o-scopes and groping...as each reduction in civil liberties became the new norm, people became more and more willing to accept the next.

So the past 14 years have PROVEN that it's a slippery slope. That's not hyperbole or drama or fearmongering. It's reality. And I'm genuinely curious as to where the line is that you will not cross, no matter what? Is there a line? After all, each of the steps I outlined in my first paragraph would theoretically make it a little harder to bring in weapons, and so make us a little safer. Why not go for broke?

I am reminded of the wise words of Benjamin Franklin. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

[DVCPAT]

I just read the entire thread, and I have a serious question for those of you with the "security at any cost" mindset. An overarching theme in your arguments seems to be, if it saves just one person's life, it's worth any hassle/headache/violation of civil liberties. But where does it end for you? What's your line in the sand, personally? Right now, it's new metal detectors. What if they move up to full body scanners? TSA grope-downs? Strip searches? Body cavity searches? Forcing everyone to walk around the parks naked, wearing/carrying nothing but a Magic Band?

I know, I know. "It's hyperbole. Disney would never do that! You're just trying to incite fear!" But let's take a step back to September 10, 2001. What if someone had informed you on that day that you would have to go through a bag check, and possibly a metal detector, just to walk into the Magic Kingdom? Or take your shoes off and possibly be groped just to get to a gate at the airport? Then some very bad people did some unthinkable things, and suddenly our civil liberties were unimportant, in the name of "safety." But people had their limits. I remember having this exact debate about bag checks back then. Some people argued that it wouldn't make us much, if any, safer, and a whole lot of people claimed that it would. "Besides," went the argument, "it's not really invasive. It's not like a metal detector." Ditto at airports. Back then, it was, "so the government is taking over airport security. It'll be more streamlined, probably safer, but it's basically still like it was before. It's not like we have to take off our shoes or get patted down or anything." Then someone tried to blow up a plane with his shoes (and was unsuccessful, by the way). "Well, we have to catch people who try to blow up their shoes. I have no problem walking through security barefoot." And liquid bans and nude-o-scopes and groping...as each reduction in civil liberties became the new norm, people became more and more willing to accept the next.

So the past 14 years have PROVEN that it's a slippery slope. That's not hyperbole or drama or fearmongering. It's reality. And I'm genuinely curious as to where the line is that you will not cross, no matter what? Is there a line? After all, each of the steps I outlined in my first paragraph would theoretically make it a little harder to bring in weapons, and so make us a little safer. Why not go for broke?

I am reminded of the wise words of Benjamin Franklin. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

The government isn't forcing you to buy park admission to Disney World.

 

[mackay_j]

JL Traveling -I don't know what airports you go through but both my dd and I cannot go through the body scanners so have to have a pat down search (we are well traveled throughout the western world) - I have never felt like I have been groped and I can assure you if I it appeared in any way that my dd was been treated with anything but the up-most respect I would have created hell. I have no issue with airport security and I am very happy to accept it in its current state. As I would be in the parks if they had to tighten up.

 

[disneyfan55]

I just read the entire thread, and I have a serious question for those of you with the "security at any cost" mindset. An overarching theme in your arguments seems to be, if it saves just one person's life, it's worth any hassle/headache/violation of civil liberties. But where does it end for you? What's your line in the sand, personally? Right now, it's new metal detectors. What if they move up to full body scanners? TSA grope-downs? Strip searches? Body cavity searches? Forcing everyone to walk around the parks naked, wearing/carrying nothing but a Magic Band?

I know, I know. "It's hyperbole. Disney would never do that! You're just trying to incite fear!" But let's take a step back to September 10, 2001. What if someone had informed you on that day that you would have to go through a bag check, and possibly a metal detector, just to walk into the Magic Kingdom? Or take your shoes off and possibly be groped just to get to a gate at the airport? Then some very bad people did some unthinkable things, and suddenly our civil liberties were unimportant, in the name of "safety." But people had their limits. I remember having this exact debate about bag checks back then. Some people argued that it wouldn't make us much, if any, safer, and a whole lot of people claimed that it would. "Besides," went the argument, "it's not really invasive. It's not like a metal detector." Ditto at airports. Back then, it was, "so the government is taking over airport security. It'll be more streamlined, probably safer, but it's basically still like it was before. It's not like we have to take off our shoes or get patted down or anything." Then someone tried to blow up a plane with his shoes (and was unsuccessful, by the way). "Well, we have to catch people who try to blow up their shoes. I have no problem walking through security barefoot." And liquid bans and nude-o-scopes and groping...as each reduction in civil liberties became the new norm, people became more and more willing to accept the next.

So the past 14 years have PROVEN that it's a slippery slope. That's not hyperbole or drama or fearmongering. It's reality. And I'm genuinely curious as to where the line is that you will not cross, no matter what? Is there a line? After all, each of the steps I outlined in my first paragraph would theoretically make it a little harder to bring in weapons, and so make us a little safer. Why not go for broke?

I am reminded of the wise words of Benjamin Franklin. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

[disneyfan55]

Thank you! And also Disney maybe needs to rid their movies of guns and violence and not make hundreds of millions on that. But when kids come off of 'shooting ride' be forbidden from wanting a similar harmless toy. Wonder when the shooting gallery will be boarded up?

 

[Laz]

"Can people wear that full burka thing to Disney?"

I saw a woman in burka-like swimming attire at Typhoon Lagoon. It looked like a loose fitting wet suit with a veil. Of course her husband was wearing a speedo.

 

[JLTraveling]

DVCPat and mackay_j, why the non-answer answers? I never said anyone was forced to buy a ticket anywhere. And I understand the majority of people are perfectly happy with airport security as it exists now. I'm curious what people's individual lines in the sand are, which if Disney crossed, that person would no longer choose to buy a ticket to Disney. Or if those lines even exist anymore at all. Not trying to say anyone's point of view is right or wrong, just curious what those points of view are.

 

[mackay_j]

shooting galleries disappeared a long time ago from children parks in my country - only water cannons now about.

 

[mackay_j]

JL Traveling -I answered you - If disney ends up like airports I would be ok with it- needs must

 

[JLTraveling]

So for you, body scanners and pat downs are ok. Fair enough. What if they moved to strip searches? Would that be ok, or would that be the line you wouldn't cross? Does your answer differ if we're talking about airports vs. Disney? Not trying to call you out, just trying to understand people's mindsets going forward--how much they are really willing to endure. For myself, I don't fly anymore. Not worth going through the TSA. There's nowhere I want/need to go that I can't get to by car, bus, train, or ship. So my line in the sand is body scanners and pat downs. I don't like the metal detectors, I think they're stupid and don't make us a bit safer, but I'm willing to endure the show to go to the theme parks. And I kinda hate myself for that, because it's strongly opposed to my general beliefs about taking a stand for civil liberties.

 

[disneyfan55]

So for you, body scanners and pat downs are ok. Fair enough. What if they moved to strip searches? Would that be ok, or would that be the line you wouldn't cross? Does your answer differ if we're talking about airports vs. Disney? Not trying to call you out, just trying to understand people's mindsets going forward--how much they are really willing to endure. For myself, I don't fly anymore. Not worth going through the TSA. There's nowhere I want/need to go that I can't get to by car, bus, train, or ship. So my line in the sand is body scanners and pat downs. I don't like the metal detectors, I think they're stupid and don't make us a bit safer, but I'm willing to endure the show to go to the theme parks. And I kinda hate myself for that, because it's strongly opposed to my general beliefs about taking a stand for civil liberties.

You sound so like the way many feel about all the new security. Seems security becomes what the last terrorist decided and doesn't really make anyone safer. Just look at the fail rate of TSA. And as others have noted there are vast areas at WDW where there is no screening and what. Will come there. I do have a problem with them having it both ways. No problem making lots of $$ on shooting movies or rides but the little toy a child will want. Forget it.

 

[mackay_j]

JL Traveling - I could not imagine not wanting to travel the world to see the amazing sites and cultures that are out there- I see this from an opposite standpoint - by doing these checks they are protecting my civil liberties and allowing me the opportunity to travel about feeling that certain levels of security are in place (I accept they will never be fail safe). As for what I would deem to be acceptable to enter a theme park I think common sense prevails people will not tolerate security above what they feel is desirable - as you point out body scanners is your limit for me these and pat downs don't bother me - had to always have them as no metal detectors for me. My sand line would be general strip search- but legally this would not be able to happen so what the point of your question

 

[mackay_j]

"Off duty baltimore cop just killed a man with a toy gun" (fox news today)- so they cannot always tell the difference. Kids never end up carrying the things they buy about all day - at some point mum or dad will end up holding them. No guns makes it easier to manage the parks- no brainer really. Its not like there is not enough stuff at disney to entertain the little darlings and if they are not for sale in any shops then the kids won't ask for them anyway. If they still do a firm no should do the trick!

 

[Xennia]

I wonder if they're going to allow adults to wear costumes for MNSSHP.

http://www.chipandco.com/new-security-measures-show-up-at-the-disney-theme-parks-225589/

I have a close friend in the Disney headquarters. If you are dressing like a character in full costume they will turn you away. If you are dressed themed or your own version and not like Disney parks costumes you are ok. My friends and I dress up every single time and we were concerned about this.

 

[amylevan]

"Off duty baltimore cop just killed a man with a toy gun" (fox news today)- so they cannot always tell the difference. Kids never end up carrying the things they buy about all day - at some point mum or dad will end up holding them. No guns makes it easier to manage the parks- no brainer really. Its not like there is not enough stuff at disney to entertain the little darlings and if they are not for sale in any shops then the kids won't ask for them anyway. If they still do a firm no should do the trick!

You do realize the guy was trying to rob the cop with the toy gun right? I'll go out on a limb and say that's a bit different than walking around a park with a POTC gun.

 

[mackay_j]

Yes

You do realize the guy was trying to rob the cop with the toy gun right? I'll go out on a limb and say that's a bit different than walking around a park with a POTC gun.

Yes, thank you for emphasizing that he was in fact in very close range to the toy gun and still couldn't tell the difference (I missed that in my above post)so how can any officer watching from a window or via camera be expected to tell the difference ie if a dad is walking about with a toy gun - say kids at toilet/ shop/ ride with mum - leaving dad on his own - As I said a no brainer

 

[Magpie]

"Can people wear that full burka thing to Disney?"

I saw a woman in burka-like swimming attire at Typhoon Lagoon. It looked like a loose fitting wet suit with a veil. Of course her husband was wearing a speedo.

Ah, the burkini! Despite being invented for Islamic women, I first heard of it about 15 years ago on a Christian homeschooling board. The women on that board were quite excited about it, and were ordering them, both for modesty reasons and because it reduced the need to use chemical sunscreens.

Given the veil, the woman you saw may have been Muslim, or she may have had a medical reason for not wanting sun exposure.

Islamic men are not supposed to wear speedos. Modesty rules apply to both genders. It's possible (if they were Islamic) that the husband is not as religious as his wife (and possibly not religious at all).

 

[JLTraveling]

JL Traveling - I could not imagine not wanting to travel the world to see the amazing sites and cultures that are out there- I see this from an opposite standpoint - by doing these checks they are protecting my civil liberties and allowing me the opportunity to travel about feeling that certain levels of security are in place (I accept they will never be fail safe). As for what I would deem to be acceptable to enter a theme park I think common sense prevails people will not tolerate security above what they feel is desirable - as you point out body scanners is your limit for me these and pat downs don't bother me - had to always have them as no metal detectors for me. My sand line would be general strip search- but legally this would not be able to happen so what the point of your question

Who said I don't want to travel the world? I have, pretty extensively, and I plan to do more in the future. But why should I get on an airplane to do so? Ships travel to all corners of the globe, and from there, it's easy enough to pick up a train. I do have the luxury of being a 100% telecommuting writer, so I can travel for months on end as long as I have internet connectivity. And I realize that not all have that option, and might be willing to submit to more security procedures at the airport in the interest of time.

I wouldn't be so sure that strip searches wouldn't be legally allowed. Today, of course not. But an awful lot of things are legal today, in the interest of "security," that weren't legal a few years ago. Wiretapping, anyone? The Patriot Act? What's to stop legislators from going on TV with a bunch of rhetoric about how "studies" have "proven" that strip searches "stop terrorism"? And then all of a sudden there's a huge public demand for strip search legislation, and it sails through with bipartisan support in the name of safety. I'll stop before I get accused of turning this political, but my point is that we as a country continue to accept more and more egregious civil liberty violations in public places that we would have found unfathomable 15 years ago. And that scares me a lot more than the infinitesimal risk of falling victim to a terrorist or a mass shooter. Clearly an unpopular opinion though.

 

[Capang]

Wow I took a few days off from the dis and found this thread when I came back. Disney is being proactive. They are an icon of the western world. They need to protect themselves and visitors. They may not be able to prevent violence but they can take steps to minimize and deter anything that could happen. My guess is that we will never truly know what steps they have employed to increase security (or why). If they added metal detectors they probably employed several other changes behind the scenes that we will never know about. I'm stumped why people are so outraged about costumes but I admit I have never been to a mnsshp. I remember reading a no costume rule for adults several years ago. Maybe I am mistaken there. I'm glad Disney is increasing security. Terrible things can happen anywhere. I always hoped that Disney security is top notch. I will not mind a few extra minutes at the gate on my next trip.

 

[DVCcurious]

I never mentioned profiling.... yes, I did mention lone men as an example.

Ok...

"you keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means".