New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[pyrxtc]

We have to wait until all the details of the new booking policy are known to really understand the impact. At this point, I'm not even sure that DVC has thought it through.

I definitely expect that they will not allow any cancellations at the beginning of the reservation without canceling the entire reservation and making a new one. (So the released days would go to a waitlist if there was one). No exceptions.

If they allow cancellations at the beginning of the reservation, the day by day calling (that they say they want to decrease or eliminate), will just start 7 days earlier than it did under the old system. All they will have done is increase the workload for MS. (There will be more reservations made and canceled only to end up with the same thing). They won't allow that (or won't as soon as they figure out what is going on). Too bad for those who may have a legitimate reason for canceling a day at the beginning. I agree with Dean that DVC just won't get into deciding who is truthful and who is not.

Other questions they'll need to answer officially and consistently -

1. If the first day I want isn't available, can I still reserve the next days (up to 7) that are available? If I can't, can I go on the waitlist on the first day I call for my whole vacation? What if my vacation is more than 7 days?

2. What if the first day and days 4 -5 are available, but not days 2 & 3? Can I reserve the days that are available? Can I waitlist for just the days that are not?

3. etc. ( I can think of many, many more)

I also think the change makes it easier for those who rent speculatively.

Theoretically, this cannot happen since noone is able to book those days 2&3 yet. Either all the rooms are booked for your whole vaction or the ones towards the end are still open becasue it will be a few days before someone can book them.

i.e. ..... I want January 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 - I call on january 1st to book. either all of them will be open or they will not have an opening until January 2nd or third. the 4th and 5th cannot even be booked yet unless they are staying the 2nd and 3 also which would book up those nights too. There would be no middle of the stay waitlists unles you are not taking advantage of your 11/7 month windows. And if you are not doing that, then it will basically work exactly like the old system.

 

[jdg345]

Theoretically, this cannot happen since noone is able to book those days 2&3 yet. Either all the rooms are booked for your whole vaction or the ones towards the end are still open becasue it will be a few days before someone can book them.

i.e. ..... I want January 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 - I call on january 1st to book. either all of them will be open or they will not have an opening until January 2nd or third. the 4th and 5th cannot even be booked yet unless they are staying the 2nd and 3 also which would book up those nights too. There would be no middle of the stay waitlists unles you are not taking advantage of your 11/7 month windows. And if you are not doing that, then it will basically work exactly like the old system.

But someone that called December 30th might have booked through the 5th, and then released two days in the middle to stay somewhere else. So you could have a case where the 1st was available, the second and third were not, and then the 4th and 5th were available. It all depends on how MS decides to let the reservation be changed.

 

[pyrxtc]

As far as the proffessional renters go, is there a way that you have to keep the name of the person checking in as the original one on booking or the reservation gets dropped and a new ressie must be made.

example - I book a room under Liz Landers, but plan on renting out that room on Ebay or another such site for that week. I cannot change the booking name liz Landers, I have to be present to check-in even if I rented it to Betty John. betty john cannot chek-in wihtout me there. If I want to change the name for check-in to Betty John, I need to cancel the ressie and make a new one from scratch hoping that the days I want are still available.

It's already not possible to have to seperate rooms under the same name so I would have to be visiting the world at the same exact time under my DH's name so we could check-in both rooms or would ahve to live very close to meet the renters there to check-in for them and gosh forbid if they want the dining plan then they will be paying for me too. And also may not be able to fit their whole party in their room sicne I will count as one adult towards that.

That would keep a lot of people from renting out busy weeks, it may also put a lot of people's points in holding for last minute cancelations that they can't rent out but those cancelation will make people on the waitlist very happy.

 

[pyrxtc]

But someone that called December 30th might have booked through the 5th, and then released two days in the middle to stay somewhere else. So you could have a case where the 1st was available, the second and third were not, and then the 4th and 5th were available. It all depends on how MS decides to let the reservation be changed.

It can't happen since you are calling at your 11 month window and can only make ressies for your home resort. Like I said after that priority time, then it could happen.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Theoretically, this cannot happen since noone is able to book those days 2&3 yet. Either all the rooms are booked for your whole vaction or the ones towards the end are still open becasue it will be a few days before someone can book them.

i.e. ..... I want January 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 - I call on january 1st to book. either all of them will be open or they will not have an opening until January 2nd or third. the 4th and 5th cannot even be booked yet unless they are staying the 2nd and 3 also which would book up those nights too. There would be no middle of the stay waitlists unles you are not taking advantage of your 11/7 month windows. And if you are not doing that, then it will basically work exactly like the old system.

Theoretically, because of the staggering of vacation bookings now I do believe it could happen.

 

[LisaS]

But someone that called December 30th might have booked through the 5th, and then released two days in the middle to stay somewhere else. So you could have a case where the 1st was available, the second and third were not, and then the 4th and 5th were available. It all depends on how MS decides to let the reservation be changed.

When the member releases 2 days in the middle, it would also release the 4th and 5th because those nights would have to be set up as a new reservation. If this was all happening at the start of the 11-month window for the night of the 1st, then it is too early to rebook the 4th and 5th, or the 2nd and 3rd for that matter.

 

[DVC Grandpa]

In an explanation of the new booking policy, I found this statement on another website.

.....“This change begins to bring DVD’s policies more in line with those of other time shares, which allow owners to book in advance of their arrival date rather than their departure date”.

Why would Disney compare DVC with “other timeshares”, DVC should be the premier property and leader, one that others would emulate, not the other way around.

I would hope this statement doesn’t reflect Disney’s thinking but perhaps it’s a direct quote, it did not give a source of the quote.

 

[jdg345]

As far as the proffessional renters go, is there a way that you have to keep the name of the person checking in as the original one on booking or the reservation gets dropped and a new ressie must be made.

example - I book a room under Liz Landers, but plan on renting out that room on Ebay or another such site for that week. I cannot change the booking name liz Landers, I have to be present to check-in even if I rented it to Betty John. betty john cannot chek-in wihtout me there. If I want to change the name for check-in to Betty John, I need to cancel the ressie and make a new one from scratch hoping that the days I want are still available.

It's already not possible to have to seperate rooms under the same name so I would have to be visiting the world at the same exact time under my DH's name so we could check-in both rooms or would ahve to live very close to meet the renters there to check-in for them and gosh forbid if they want the dining plan then they will be paying for me too. And also may not be able to fit their whole party in their room sicne I will count as one adult towards that.

That would keep a lot of people from renting out busy weeks, it may also put a lot of people's points in holding for last minute cancelations that they can't rent out but those cancelation will make people on the waitlist very happy.

Actually, you can create reservations for one person, Liz Landers, Betty John, Jack Frost, and Jose Cuervo. That's (4) Reservations right there. When you 'sell' those weeks, you just *add* the names of the parties on ... you don't need to remove them techically. The restriction would be that someone in the rental party would get excluded; however, I can't imagine many renters would care as long as the primary/secondary were listed. Plus, at checkin, you can change *anything*. "Oh, sorry, Liz Landers couldn't make it so I invited my Cousin, Frank Footer, instead. Can you change that please?".

 

[Dean]

But doesn't this now create an easy scenario for speculative renting? Let's say it's that much easier to get the time period you want, longer stay. What's to stop someone with a few thousand points from making 4, 5, or more reservations for that same period? With day by day, these folks too had to call day by day and try to grab what they needed. If this does make it easier, then these folks are going to have a field day and the only way to get prime weeks at prime locations will not be via DVC, it will be via eBay.

I don't think so. Someone willing to put the type effort in to reserve for spec renting will be sitting on the phone at 9 am every day. Plus you can only reserve or modify one reservation at a time so if you call at the same time, the most they're likely to get is 1 unit ahead of you. Besides, you're assuming that spec renting isn't OK, if I rent, I want the most return for my points and if that's reserving first then renting, so be it.

You can speculate about that if you wish, but I doubt DVC will permit it. My sense is that they will allow one transaction per 7-day period.

I don't see how they could. I'm sure one can book as many options as they have points for.

Then doesn't this make it touch to book things like NYE when the week before is likely going to be completely booked based on those that booked Christmas? On #2, it's possible depending on how they allow changes, etc. I can see people booking 7-10 days and then deciding that they want to switch resorts somewhere midstay.

The question is "does it matter". The answer is not really except to the individual. With ANY and EVERY change there will be losers and winners no matter how good or reasonable the change is. One just has to figure out when you need to call to get what you want. In large part this is related to how they handle cancellations and changes and while there may be some info currently, we don't really know where the dust will settle. Assuming you want NYE you'd have to decide how badly you want it. Do you want it bad enough to reserve starting Xmas day? If not, you'd have to decide what risks YOU were willing to take in getting what you want or not realizing that the specific choices might affect your chances of success and thus you might NOT get what you want. A large part of my thinking is this is OK that some will be worse off than before.

By earlier, do you mean the day (or days) before? Again we go back to those who have more points having an advantage. For example, Thanksgiving week it's usually pretty easy to grab Fri/Sat night before, but that Sunday is pretty tough and it gets tougher the closer you get to Thanksgiving Day. Those with more points can just book from Friday and lock themselves in. If you can't waitlist for the beginning days, then those same folks also have an advantage as they can extend their stay day-by-day by closing the 7 day ressie (making it one day) and then booking 7 more for a total of 8. Rinse, lather, repeat -- and now you have 10, 14, or more days which you can link together. And, ironincally, DVC didn't reduce day-by-day calling for this member anyways.

Theoretically but I think it's reasonable to assume that there will be some type of limitations that will limit this type of approach. If not, it may actually be more work. Just remember that every time you change you run the risk of actually losing your reservation. Plus if there's a wait list, you'll likely lose it there as well, not it doesn't matter if it's a cancelation and rebooking or not.

 

[danielle782001]

Putting opinions about the actual policy change aside...PLEASE....

Is it the majorities opinion that you have better shot at getting what you want if you plan to arrive on a Friday or Saturday?

I am not looking to twist the system for some evil benefit...I am just looking to be able to book a vacation for my family and have a shot at getting what we want...We usually do the 7-night stay and will have to use points on the weekend no matter what, so is it in our best interest to book from Friday to Friday?

 

[jdg345]

It can't happen since you are calling at your 11 month window and can only make ressies for your home resort. Like I said after that priority time, then it could happen.

Okay, so let's try this differently.

I arrive on the 1st, so I book Jan 1 through 7.
I call next day and remove the 5th and 6th, because I'll be staying somewhere else. If I'm worried about not getting the 5th/6th, I can book the 2nd through the 6th at the new resort (assuming I have the points) and then adjust it accordingly dropping the 2nd-4th. Or I can just book both 7-day ressies day one (again, assuming I have the points) and adjust them the following day.

You arrive on the third. The 3rd and 4th are booked, but the 5th and 6th are now available. But the 7th is booked.

There is nothing in the POS that would prevent me from cutting out days in the middle of a reservation.

 

[jdg345]

When the member releases 2 days in the middle, it would also release the 4th and 5th because those nights would have to be set up as a new reservation. If this was all happening at the start of the 11-month window for the night of the 1st, then it is too early to rebook the 4th and 5th, or the 2nd and 3rd for that matter.

Do we know for a fact it would release the 4th and the 5th? There's nothing in the POS that says the stay has to be continuous that I've seen. Sure, you're opening up the chance of MS messing up the reservation, but they do have the capability to cut stuff up and rebook it without it triggering a waitlist. Others have cancelled/rebooked on the fly to reutilize points (Changing a ressie using Current points to Borrowed points so the Current can then be banked, for example).

 

[TheDISneyFamily]

I just got back from being out of town for the weekend and I'm trying to catch up on what I've missed over here. Wow! This is big news! I haven't read through this entire thread, but my 1st impression is I AM NOT HAPPY! Our home resort is BWV and we've gotten spoiled with the Boardwalk view. Our stays are almost always more than 7 days - this new booking policy will be even more of a pain for us than having to call day by day!!! I suppose if I get to reserve the 1st 7 days and then have to call each day after that to get the rest of my reservation, I can live with it. BUT, if there's a chance that I won't get all of my dates even at the 11-month window because of this new policy

 

[jdg345]

I don't think so. Someone willing to put the type effort in to reserve for spec renting will be sitting on the phone at 9 am every day. Plus you can only reserve or modify one reservation at a time so if you call at the same time, the most they're likely to get is 1 unit ahead of you. Besides, you're assuming that spec renting isn't OK, if I rent, I want the most return for my points and if that's reserving first then renting, so be it.

Agree, they would have normally be on the phone day by day at 9am. This just makes it easier for them, they only need to call one day to lock it all in.

I don't see how they could. I'm sure one can book as many options as they have points for.

Agreed.

The question is "does it matter". The answer is not really except to the individual. With ANY and EVERY change there will be losers and winners no matter how good or reasonable the change is. One just has to figure out when you need to call to get what you want. In large part this is related to how they handle cancellations and changes and while there may be some info currently, we don't really know where the dust will settle. Assuming you want NYE you'd have to decide how badly you want it. Do you want it bad enough to reserve starting Xmas day? If not, you'd have to decide what risks YOU were willing to take in getting what you want or not realizing that the specific choices might affect your chances of success and thus you might NOT get what you want. A large part of my thinking is this is OK that some will be worse off than before.

That's just it, people that wanted it badly have to change their resources. In the past, they would focus their efforts on day-by-day booking to give themselves the best chance. Now, instead of time, they may have to use point resources to give themselves the best chance.

Theoretically but I think it's reasonable to assume that there will be some type of limitations that will limit this type of approach. If not, it may actually be more work. Just remember that every time you change you run the risk of actually losing your reservation. Plus if there's a wait list, you'll likely lose it there as well, not it doesn't matter if it's a cancelation and rebooking or not.

I'm pretty sure you can rebook without triggering a waitlist, as mentioned above when changing the 'type of points' used for a reservation.

 

[Dean]

There's a fine line between discouraging abuse and limiting the freedom and flexibility for regular people. Not sure where that line is, exactly

Agreed, but I'll go a step further. Just because the majority of the members or even DVC itself doesn't like a given option or approach really has no meaning. Even one who bought specifically to rent out has rights and options.

For all the comments about "gaming" the system: Most DVCers just want to be able to go on vacation when their time off/flights allow. It's not a matter of trying to get one over on somebody else, it's a matter of trying to make their life work.

I think that's one of the fallacy's of the system. Each and every reservation is one that someone else won't get. And while while I understand that emotionally it matters to many the reason for the reservation, it really doesn't to the system or at least it shouldn't as long as one is within the rules of DVC and the laws of the state in question, usually FL for DVC.

I also agree with you about the flexibility. That was one of the major selling points for us when we decided to buy. If our flexibility in length of stay goes away, we will want out. And come to think of it, I've never made a DVC ressie without changes either.

And this will be an option, this may not work for some and they may elect to vote with their feet. Such is the case with any and every change.

 

[Dean]

Agree, they would have normally be on the phone day by day at 9am. This just makes it easier for them, they only need to call one day to lock it all in.

It makes it easier for everyone though it might alter your chances of success. IMO, it actually benefits a subset of "regular" member while affecting someone doing spec renting very little.

That's just it, people that wanted it badly have to change their resources. In the past, they would focus their efforts on day-by-day booking to give themselves the best chance. Now, instead of time, they may have to use point resources to give themselves the best chance.

OK, I've already stated there will be winners and losers and that IS OK. I feel that overall there will be more winners than losers but we'll have to see. I think you can expect a modification that effectively makes any change a cancelation and rebooking but there are ways to handle this as well.

 

[jeankeri]

I could see this as being an advantage/stress reducer for those booking at their non-home resorts at the 7 month mark (having already booked at their home resort so they know they have somewhere to stay ). I would not want to be risking a split stay if I could not get all nights changed on that kind of reservation.
The other thing that this policy will encourage is more weekend bookings. Is this to MS's benefit or detriment ? I would think benefit. It would force members to add weekend days to book later days earlier. You could (in theory) cancel the first day of your vacation and add it onto the end to not lose the points.
I'm in the camp of not liking the system. Having travelled over Thanksgiving and booked BWV rooms in the past, day-to-day was fine with me. I see more stress in planning vacations with this new policy.

 

[Dean]

Okay, so let's try this differently.

I arrive on the 1st, so I book Jan 1 through 7.
I call next day and remove the 5th and 6th, because I'll be staying somewhere else. If I'm worried about not getting the 5th/6th, I can book the 2nd through the 6th at the new resort (assuming I have the points) and then adjust it accordingly dropping the 2nd-4th. Or I can just book both 7-day ressies day one (again, assuming I have the points) and adjust them the following day.

You arrive on the third. The 3rd and 4th are booked, but the 5th and 6th are now available. But the 7th is booked.

There is nothing in the POS that would prevent me from cutting out days in the middle of a reservation.

This has always been possible but difficult and risky to do. Even splitting an existing reservation into 2 is quite difficult in many situations. This is one area where DVC can alter the rules on their whim and without notice.

 

[Bopsmom]

From my understanding...You can book as few days as you want up to 7 days...So you can call at 11/7 months and book a five day trip from the day you plan to arrive in Disney..They are not forcing you to stay 7 or on weekends...You are free to book 5 and not call day-to-day..Just call from arrive date.

You don't have to book 7 days.

The point is, that if you are booking less than 7 days, then you might have a lesser chance of getting a room because someone who _did_ book 7 days got the room before you because they are arriving at least a day before you.

I think a lot of it will have to do with what the "typical" (i.e. most common) 7 day stay is. Is that Sat-Fri? If so, and you want to book less than 7 days and not start on a Saturday, you might have less rooms available to you for your stay. Even if you are booking 7 days, but not the "typical" days, you may find no availability for the first portion of your planned stay.

Thank you both for clearing that up. I guess that makes things better , but I still am not sure I like the changes. I will have to wait and see.

If the flexibility goes away, which was the main reason DH bought DVC, than I guess there will be a pretty large Boardwalk contract going up for resale.

I want my D-V-C

 

[LisaS]

Do we know for a fact it would release the 4th and the 5th? There's nothing in the POS that says the stay has to be continuous that I've seen. Sure, you're opening up the chance of MS messing up the reservation, but they do have the capability to cut stuff up and rebook it without it triggering a waitlist. Others have cancelled/rebooked on the fly to reutilize points (Changing a ressie using Current points to Borrowed points so the Current can then be banked, for example).

You can't have a reservation with a "hole" in it. If you start with a reservation for Jan 1 - 7 with conf # 12345 and you cancel 2 days in the middle, say Jan 4th and 5th, but you want to keep the nights of Jan 6th and 7th, those have to be set up as a new reservation with a new conf # because you will be checking out on Jan 4th and checking back in on Jan 6th. If you are doing this prior to Feb 6th (11 months prior to Jan 6th), you shouldn't be allowed to create that new reservation.

So I believe pyrxtc is correct. If you are booking a new reservation on your earliest possible day, if day 1 is available then the remaining days will be available. We should not see this particular problem of getting the first day and the 3rd day but not the second day.