New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[squirrlygirl]

I'm just happy to hear that NOBODY will get a room.....so I'll have no trouble whatsoever!

If enough people complain, I bet we'll eventually see the 4-night minimum (IIRC that's what it is) imposed.

I don't understand how upset people are-if your special room at your special resort on your special night is already booked at 11 months, then that means that someone else who also owns at that resort is already booked there. Which means under the old system you could've snagged a room in the middle of them booking their day-by-day vacation, which isn't really fair to that other person.

 

[beacher]

I've read this entire thread and tried to keep an open mind, but I'm squarely against this change. I have 600 points at BCV and BWV and two of our three trips per year have utilized the scarce room types - SV in early Dec and 2B2Q at BCV. Interestingly, we just purchased our first non-DVC timeshare last week after a sales presentation (Marriott Frenchman's Cove) and told the sales rep that one of the things we liked best about DVC vs. Marriott's system was the absence of risk with the DVC system. I have called D-B-D at 11 months to secure the scarce room types and it never entered my mind that I wouldn't get one - and never did it happen. The counter argument at Marriott was that we actually purchased a specific room type - the 3BR - so we are not competing for a room type like we are in DVC's purely points-based system.

This is why I don't understand the comment (from DVC?) that this makes their system more similar to other timeshares - at other timeshares your purchase determines the room size / category, not the amount of points you intend to use for that one trip. Personally, I'm glad DH and I are starting to branch out from DVC into other timeshare programs. I think this change and its implementation are an indication of DVC's regard for its membership and the future doesn't look bright.

 

[snackyx]

Second, that the key to the flexibility of DVC is the cancellation policy. If DVC significantly changes that policy (as some have suggested it should), this would signficiantly reduce the value of DVC to many. I have NEVER made a DVC reservation that has not involved the cancellation of at least one night.

-- Suzanne

Wow. I have been a member since January 1992 and have lost count of the number of trips we have made--close to 40. I can think of ONE trip where we changed an arrival. Period.

 

[tjkraz]

I have called D-B-D at 11 months to secure the scarce room types and it never entered my mind that I wouldn't get one - and never did it happen.

Then that lends credence to my suspicion that this is a non-issue even with the change.

If demand outpaced supply right at 11 months--even for the smaller room categories--it stands to reason that you would have encountered difficulties booking day-by-day at some point. The fact that you haven't suggests that the vast majority of DVC members are not filling resorts to the brim 335 days out as some have suggested.

 

[NejTheLion]

Wow. I have been a member since January 1992 and have lost count of the number of trips we have made--close to 40. I can think of ONE trip where we changed an arrival. Period.

It may not happen to everyone, but it has happened to us as well. When we book a vacation 11 months in advance, we have no idea what will be going on with work 11 months out. We try to fly down to FL on a Friday, but sometimes, that just isn't possible. So, we have cancelled the first night of our booking from time to time. And the same applies to the end. We plan to fly home on Monday, but sometimes, we have to be back at work then, so we have to change our checkout date to Sunday.

Not trying to manipulate the system or anything. In fact, we've only ever booked based off of our checkout date. Never done day-by-day because it wasn't necessary for the time of year we go to WDW.

We are a little concerned now since we almost always book 10+ nights, but again, if we stick with our typical non-busy times, it hopefully won't hurt us to wait until that 3rd day to book 10 nights.

We are very concerned that the cancellation flexibility will go away. I thought someone else had an excellent idea - make a 30-day window where no changes may be made to reservations. It won't hurt people who have to cancel a day or two for legitimate reasons and should keep others from manipulating the system.

It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out, and we can't WAIT to hear DVC's reasons for not announcing this change in advance

 

[beacher]

Then that lends credence to my suspicion that this is a non-issue even with the change.

If demand outpaced supply right at 11 months--even for the smaller room categories--it stands to reason that you would have encountered difficulties booking day-by-day at some point. The fact that you haven't suggests that the vast majority of DVC members are not filling resorts to the brim 335 days out as some have suggested.

I do hope you are correct, but now I have a perceived risk that by starting the ressie on a Sunday I may find certain room types already taken by folks arriving Fri or Sat.; that risk is what I thought I had avoided by buying where I wanted to stay. At best I'm more stressed about the call but still get the ressie, at worst my fears come true. Truthfully, we were just talking about trying for our first GV ressie at BWV for December 2009 and inviting a large family group... I will now hold all mention and enthusiasm about a GV until I actually secure it. If I don't get lucky and have to go with 2 smaller rooms then no one will be disappointed except me.

 

[mello]

The thought that people are suggesting to MS to not allow a change to your reservation without cancelling is just frightening to me. I bought DVC because of the much touted flexibility. If I had wanted the traditional timeshare I would have bought that (and I never would have).

You summed up well what I tried to get at in another post.

My thought is that most ressies won't be affected by this change. The main problem is for those wanting to book certain room types and/or during certain times at certain resorts. And yes, it could affect me in the future, because I'm just a small potatoes owner, and I may want to go during F&W or Christmas week. BUT that said, there will always be a way to manipulate any system, and there will always be those who exploit the advantage they have. Regardless of the system that's in place, imposing more and more regulations to try to stop them does nothing but limit the normal owner's flexibility. That's why these suggestions are worrisome.

I'm also a bit concerned about the 7-day standard with the new system. If they are heading in the direction of a standard weekly timeshare, as some have suggested the 7-days may indicate, that would be worrisome indeed. We did not buy a standard weekly timeshare and we don't want one either.

In short, I'm not as concerned about exactly what reservation system is in place, and who is or is not taking advantage of it, as I am concerned that the system remains flexible in terms of when, where, and how long we can stay, making last-minute changes (or indeed, any changes) of dates or guest names & numbers, etc. If the flexibility of DVC goes away, then so will our interest in owning DVC.

 

[dianeschlicht]

One phone call 11 months from my checkin day just does not work for me for 3 of my 4 trips a year. Since we go for 12 nights in May, 10 nights in August, and 12 nights in October, it will get complicated for us. So do I call and request a 7 night stay, then three days later call back, drop 4 days off of that reservation and now book a 7 night stay and link the 2 reservations together?? That would cover my 10 night stay. While sometimes it wouldn't matter, but it will matter when it comes to my 12 night stay in a standard room at the BWV in October. For the harder to get accommodates, this will be complicated even to us using our home resort 11 month advantage. We have 6 trips planned for 2009 and while January is done, I really don't look forward to booking the rest of them. Hopefully more clarification will come before September when I need to book my spring trip at the 7 month window. I'm so glad I don't stay during big holidays (Easter/Christmas/NYE), but was hoping to stay at the BWV during early December next year after a cruise. Guess I'll need a strategy to figure out how to get my SV BWV room at the 11 month window. In the past I did call D-B-D for the harder places during the busier times.

See, your scenario is exactly what bothers me as well. We rarely stay for just a week. We are more 10-12 day planners. The outcome of this could be that we actually DECREASE the number of days we will be at Disney. I'm not going to bother with it if I can't get the extra 4-5 nights added to my preferred reservation. Instead, I'll end up banking the points, or worse (can't believe I'm saying this) be forced to rent or transfer them. I can see Disney actually losing business over this.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I just wanted to add that I don't think it would be very easy or very wise for DVC to not allow changes without total rebooking. DVC has always been known for its flexibility. If they do that, there wont be much flexibility, and the resales values will start plummeting, and that will ultimately effect the original sales values as well. As someone else said...I didn't buy a 1 week timeshare, and I don't want one. The whole reason for buying DVC for us (besides being at Disney) was that it was flexible to the unit size and length of time. This new policy makes it much less flexible.

 

[Dean]

The thought that people are suggesting to MS to not allow a change to your reservation without cancelling is just frightening to me. I bought DVC because of the much touted flexibility. If I had wanted the traditional timeshare I would have bought that (and I never would have).

Actually many changes now are supposed to be a cancelation and rebooking though DVC is hit or miss in their application. I guess this is one of my pet peeves, one I've tried to get across to this group over the years, that you DID buy a timeshare. It may have been different in your mind but in the big scheme it really isn't other than that each and every timeshare is different from each other and they all change over time. You made assumptions that may not have been true about DVC and were not truly protected. To me a minimum LOS and a streamlined reservation system were/are inevitable outcomes and I'm surprised it took this long. When I've posted that something had to happen eventually a number have stated it would never happen because it's DVC. I guess they'll listen better next time.

 

[mello]

Agreed, but I'll go a step further. Just because the majority of the members or even DVC itself doesn't like a given option or approach really has no meaning. Even one who bought specifically to rent out has rights and options.

I think that's one of the fallacy's of the system. Each and every reservation is one that someone else won't get. And while while I understand that emotionally it matters to many the reason for the reservation, it really doesn't to the system or at least it shouldn't as long as one is within the rules of DVC and the laws of the state in question, usually FL for DVC.

And this will be an option, this may not work for some and they may elect to vote with their feet. Such is the case with any and every change.

On the one hand it sounds as if you're in favor of less regulations (which aim to thwart commercial renting). To attempt a paraphrase: everyone who bought, for whatever purpose, has the right to use their ownership as they see fit, regardless of what everyone else (other owners & DVC) think about it.

But on the other hand, it sounds as if you would welcome, or at least not be bothered by, such increased regulations. Or would you be one of those voting with your feet?

Not trying to be argumentative! Just trying to understand, because your opinions usually seem so well thought out. I'm really trying to see all the sides on this, and I'm not really sure where I stand on it yet (except to say that in life in general, I am not usually in favor of more rules and regulations for most things, unless the reasons are extremely compelling, and I'm not real sure they are in this case).

 

[dianeschlicht]

So how would this scenario work????

Say I want to stay for 10 nights. I want to arrive on a Tuesday in a 1 bedroom at OKW and book a week, and then I want AKV concierge starting on the following Wednesday for 3 nights. I can't book the concierge when I call for the first week of my trip, and if I wait until the 11 month window for my Wednesday stay, it will likely be already booked early by someone staying the whole week. Can I get a "leg up" by dividing my original ressie? In other words, could I book the first three nights of my OKW ressie and then call bacl and book the last 4 nights of OKW and add the 3 nights of AKV that are within 7 days? I know that sounds convoluted and confusing, but why not???

This is a vacation I just planned to book, and the new policy makes me pretty sure I'm not going to get the AKV-CV portion of it. I really want to use up my remaining AKV points for the year so I don't have any banked '09 points from AKV. I want to make a bigger AKV reservation in 2011, so I want to bank '10 points into '11 and borrow '12 points from my AKV contract. For that reason, I don't want to have to bank the 42 '09 points I have left in that contract. Booking the Conceirge level for 3 nights on the end of my December '09 trip would take care of them and I'd only have 3 points to worry about losing or transfering or whatever.

 

[Dean]

On the one hand it sounds as if you're in favor of less regulations (which aim to thwart commercial renting). To attempt a paraphrase: everyone who bought, for whatever purpose, has the right to use their ownership as they see fit, regardless of what everyone else (other owners & DVC) think about it.

But on the other hand, it sounds as if you would welcome, or at least not be bothered by, such increased regulations. Or would you be one of those voting with your feet?

Not trying to be argumentative! Just trying to understand, because your opinions usually seem so well thought out. I'm really trying to see all the sides on this, and I'm not really sure where I stand on it yet.

Actually either as long as they are consistent with the POS as written and FL law and not with the intent of socially engineering the reservations system. For example, the POS specifically allows renting as does FL law and there is a previously vague statement about commercial renting recently more defined as in excess of 20 reservation a year (a reasonable definition IMO). The statements in the POS stating one should buy for personal use are not as many here would like to believe. It is merely a statement of expectation, not of limitation. Thus one shouldn't expect to buy and rent for profit but if you can, this wording does not prevent it. Also realize that it is my opinion that DVC cannot "legally" under FL law prevent a member from doing something they are doing. So keeping these statements in mind, here are a few thoughts.

So if they institute a minimum stay, make each change a full cancelation, require only one reservation per week per member or anything else you can think of, it will affect members differently. And for the most part, there will be some that are helped and others than are hurt. So just because a change hurts someone doesn't make it a bad change overall.

IMO, where you stand comes down emotion or reason, whether you are a states rights or federalist, ultimately whether you believe in capitalism or socialism. Ask yourself how you feel if a single owner reserves 19 weeks during the highest demand week of the year specifically to rent out and you'll have your answer where you stand. Do you simply wish they wouldn't do it or does it make you mad and want a rule to prevent it (extreme example to make the point).

 

[toesmom]

I have existing 7 night reservation in our family name at SSR for february 2009.

I want to try to change last 2 nights for BWV Boardwalk view studio.

best way before was to wait until 7 months and call.

Now I can't do that. Actually I can, but there's a good chance that a family may have booked the BW view room before I even have the chance at the 7 month window. So to get around that...

Can I do it this way...

Change existing reservation into friend's name to be later changed back into our family name at the end of the bookings.

Book in July under mine and dh name for BWV BWview studio for 7 nights only planning to keep last 2 nights. Of course book for arrival date of original reservation, planning to only keep last 2 nights (we have enough points to do this).

Then drop 1st 5 nights on 2nd ressie at BWV. Wait past 30 days of course (ok for my banking points deadline), keeping only the days I originally planned anyhow.

Then drop last 2 nights on 1st reservation at SSR.

Then change name on 1st reservation back to ours.

Then we'll have 5 days SSR and 2 days BWV in our name.

I know I can't have 2 reservations for same days under my name, but if I wait for arrival date for last 2 nights, I bet for that time period, they won't be available.

I know it's confusing, but can I do it this way? Can you tell I really prefer the previous booking system?

 

[jarestel]

As DVC grows and we see more waitlisting as well as "small" add-ons at resorts just for the purpose of booking hard-to-get time periods, I suppose a change to the booking system was more or less inevitable.

Example: Member X, on vacation from Sunday-Friday, books 2 days at Resort A, but due to shortage of points or availability, Member X changes to Resort B for a day or two and then returns to Resort A to finish out the trip. This necessitates 3 full cleanings within a time period that should only require 1 full cleaning. With the shortage of housekeepers and the associated housekeeping problems at WDW, it seems a waste of resources to continue along this path. Though it can be disappointing for some to lose out on prime reservations, consolation can be gleaned from contributing to an overall workload decline for housekeeping along with a drop in the associated costs of the extra cleanings. And as far as I can see from reading these boards, many members are interested in slowing the increase in dues payments.

As far as spec renters go, it has been my experience that every negative impact to members' wants & wishes has been blamed on spec renters for as long as I can remember. However, DVC has in place a process to identify and discourage members who engage in large amounts of spec rentals. The rental Bogeyman has been dispatched so let your minds not be troubled by spec rentals.

I suspect that DVC wishes to discourage short stays at resorts not encourage them, so I wouldn't hold out much hope that the check-in policy will be reversed. As others have said, as long as the rooms are full, DVC doesn't much care which particular members are occupying them. Nobody is going to let points expire just to make a point, so DVC will get their warm bodies either through member reservations or rentals.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Actually many changes now are supposed to be a cancelation and rebooking though DVC is hit or miss in their application. I guess this is one of my pet peeves, one I've tried to get across to this group over the years, that you DID buy a timeshare. It may have been different in your mind but in the big scheme it really isn't other than that each and every timeshare is different from each other and they all change over time. You made assumptions that may not have been true about DVC and were not truly protected. To me a minimum LOS and a streamlined reservation system were/are inevitable outcomes and I'm surprised it took this long. When I've posted that something had to happen eventually a number have stated it would never happen because it's DVC. I guess they'll listen better next time.

But Dean, then you are saying that what other timeshare are doing is the way that all timeshare should do it and I don't buy it - and since I never had an interested in the traditional timeshare I really mean that I didn't buy it. I sat thru DVC's presentation at DL less than a month ago. They stated that they looked at other timeshares and picked out things but then listened to what their guests wanted......and that included flexibility. When other timeshares sell to you you know you're getting a certain week etc. DVC said you got flexibility. I think that saying that you bought a timeshare and you should live with it is a constricted view. If it was just an assumption on my part, well then shame on me.....but a very strong part of DVC's presentation was on the flexibility and that seemed to be confirmed by the members, and I don't consider that an assumption.

 

[tjkraz]

...if I wait until the 11 month window for my Wednesday stay, it will likely be already booked early by someone staying the whole week.

I just want to throw out that THIS is the exact point where I think some are making a bit of a logic error in evaluating the new system.

The assumption always seems to be that reservations will stick to some sort of Sunday-based schedule (Sunday to Thursday, Sun to Fri, Sun to Sat, etc.) That's not necessarily true.

All it takes is someone staying LONGER than a week or LESS than five nights (both of which can, do and will continue to happen often) to disrupt that perception. In your case, if a guest books AKV Concierge for Sunday to TUESDAY, he'll be vacating a room just in time for you to arrive on Wednesday. From a booking standpoint, there is no way for anyone to book that room prior to 11 months out on WEDNESDAY.

Even if we accept that most DVC stays begin on a Sunday, there remain many which are less than 5 nights and many that are longer than 7 nights. It's those short and long stays which will feed the ability for members to book mid-week arrivals.

 

[jarestel]

I sat thru DVC's presentation at DL less than a month ago. They stated that they looked at other timeshares and picked out things but then listened to what their guests wanted......and that included flexibility.

There is a tremendous amount of flexibility within the DVC system, but flexibility should not be construed to mean that you are guaranteed a reservation whenever you want it. As it has always been, reservations are "based on availability".

 

[mikki.young]

I haven't read every page of this discussion. It is frustrating that more and more we hear about changes, sometimes quite significant, from sites like this or from Tim's excellent newsletter.

I am not sure what I think to this change. Maybe good, maybe not. Maybe no real difference. Time will tell and it may be a different answer for different people and their circumstances.

I did hear on another site that someone had also been told by CMs today that the waitlist rules had also changed. Apparently the waitlist has to be for the whole of your stay and not part of it. For people who book longer stays (like those of us from the UK) if this is true I suspect it means the end of the waitlist for us. I can not see three weeks or therabouts all coming available at one time wheras the day by day waitlist or few days waitlist did give you a chance. Has anyone here heard about that possible change and if it is true what do you think?

 

[mello]

Actually either as long as they are consistent with the POS as written and FL law and not with the intent of socially engineering the reservations system. For example, the POS specifically allows renting as does FL law and there is a previously vague statement about commercial renting recently more defined as in excess of 20 reservation a year (a reasonable definition IMO). The statements in the POS stating one should buy for personal use are not as many here would like to believe. It is merely a statement of expectation, not of limitation. Thus one shouldn't expect to buy and rent for profit but if you can, this wording does not prevent it. Also realize that it is my opinion that DVC cannot "legally" under FL law prevent a member from doing something they are doing. So keeping these statements in mind, here are a few thoughts.

So if they institute a minimum stay, make each change a full cancelation, require only one reservation per week per member or anything else you can think of, it will affect members differently. And for the most part, there will be some that are helped and others than are hurt. So just because a change hurts someone doesn't make it a bad change overall.

IMO, where you stand comes down emotion or reason, whether you are a states rights or federalist, ultimately whether you believe in capitalism or socialism. Ask yourself how you feel if a single owner reserves 19 weeks during the highest demand week of the year specifically to rent out and you'll have your answer where you stand. Do you simply wish they wouldn't do it or does it make you mad and want a rule to prevent it (extreme example to make the point).

Well, in this example, I'd say the single owner is a greedy capitalist, and I'd say those who want to make rules to prevent it are busybody socialists! Not sure where that puts me politically (maybe I'm a closet Libertarian?!) The bottom line for me is, I really don't care too much what everybody else does, as long as they aren't thwarting my vacation plans. And I must say, so far I've been thwarted far more by new rule changes than I have been by point renters. In fact, come to think of it, I've been helped along in my vacation plans by point renters. Wonder how that stacks up with others' personal experiences???