New policy for reservations based on check IN date

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Sure you will ... people will just book day-by-day a week in advance, that's all. All this does is complicate the system -- I really don't see how it fixes anything. :confused3

If you think there is a level playing field under the new rule, you aren't understanding it, plain and simple. Keep reading.
 
I am extremely disappointed in this change. I would much prefer the day-by-day booking in order to ensure or at least have a better chance of securing the type of room I want.

With a greater chance of my "needed" type of accomodation already gone or only partially available, this is going to play heck once we start having to waitlist for sections of our stay.

I too will be emailing MS to voice my disappointment.
 
If you think there is a level playing field under the new rule, you aren't understanding it, plain and simple. Keep reading.

Please see my other posts ... I definitely like the other system better and consider it as being much more 'fair'. ;)
 
I think there has been a fair amount of dissatisfaction voiced over the growing need to do day-by-day bookings to compete with those who have already embraced the process.

I disagree - all anyone has is anecdotal evidence. My point is that we have a system which has worked for over 16 years and it was changed with no notice or explanation.

On the surface the new system seems like a no-brainer; seven phone calls reduced to one, less on-hold time, lower phone costs, lower staffing costs, etc. IMO, it's only when we start discussing how people could manipulate and abuse the new system that it begins to tarnish a bit.

We have NO evidence to support that the number of phone calls will be reduced sevenfold. In fact, for those who reserve longer stays, the potential number of calls could even increase.

My point was simply that the two different systems are both in use within the industry. This isn't something that DVC cooked-up on their own--both systems are tried-and-true. And I think there's evidence to suggest that the new system is more member-friendly.

What evidence do you have that suggests the new system is more "member friendly"? Some of the timeshare programs you are touting also have minimum stays - are you suggesting DVC should move in that direction too? Does that play a role in the "different systems"? There are also many, many (a MAJORITY) of timeshares that use a week based system. Maybe DVC should also implement that system too - without consulting with it's membership?

Well, I'll politely disagree a bit on the "hysteria" front. It seems like there has been ample speculation over how future bookings will be impacted by those trying to manipulate the new rules.

I guess it depends on how little credit you want to give to DVC members who have received ZERO information about a program totally revamped from anything they have used for years. Hysteria, IMO, is a harsh description of the legitimate concerns raised by DVC owners as a result of the changes implemented without notice by DVC today. In addition, DVC Member Services, the only source for explanation of the new program, has been completely inconsistent in it's response to the same questions asked by members all day.

The reaction which has been expressed on this site today to a situation completely foreign to ANY member has been far from hysterical. In my eyes it has been a responsible introspective discussion of the ramifications of the new policy and has been completely repsonsible in light of the lack of ANY explanation from DVC. This is not a discussion of any rumor about possible new resorts or point charts or resort names - it is a discussion about a new policy implemented by DVC without notice and without consistent explanation. The discussion has been anything BUT hysterical even though it will affect every DVC member.

You can't have it both ways - either DVC has handled this in a completely responsible fashion and has disseminated complete and consistent information to members and those members have then behaved hysterically ... OR ... DVC has dropped the ball and forced the membership to speculate how the new policy will affect them.

I've seen no hysteria to date though whether anyone else agrees or not. I have seen many DVC owners looking for information which has not been forthcoming from DVC in any way.
 

I've seen no hysteria to date though whether anyone else agrees or not. I have seen many DVC owners looking for information which has not been forthcoming from DVC in any way.

There's no hysteria here!

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I am extremely disappointed in this change. I would much prefer the day-by-day booking in order to ensure or at least have a better chance of securing the type of room I want.

But don't you have a BETTER chance now of getting the room you want?

Let's say you want to stay March 1-5.

Under the old system you book the first night on April 2 (theoretical check-out day for first night.) Under the new system you book the first night on April 1 (11 months from check-in.)

Under the old system you book the second night on April 3. Under the new system you book the second night on...April 1.

Under the old system you book the third night on April 4. Under the new system you book the third night on...April 1.

I understand that some members will have access to the same dates before you will via their "+7" booking rights, but it seems extremely unlikely that you would already be completely locked-out at 9am 11 months before your arrival date.

And on the off-chance that this were true, there are simply too many people competing for the same dates so SOMEBODY will have to be shut-out. Is it any more fair for someone in the midst of a day-by-day booking to end up with gaps in the middle of their trip because they didn't get to the phone right at 9am (or 6am Pacific time?)
 
But don't you have a BETTER chance now of getting the room you want?

Let's say you want to stay March 1-5.

Under the old system you book the first night on April 2 (theoretical check-out day for first night.) Under the new system you book the first night on April 1 (11 months from check-in.)

Under the old system you book the second night on April 3. Under the new system you book the second night on...April 1.

Under the old system you book the third night on April 4. Under the new system you book the third night on...April 1.

I understand that some members will have access to the same dates before you will via their "+7" booking rights, but it seems extremely unlikely that you would already be completely locked-out at 9am 11 months before your arrival date.

And on the off-chance that this were true, there are simply too many people competing for the same dates so SOMEBODY will have to be shut-out. Is it any more fair for someone in the midst of a day-by-day booking to end up with gaps in the middle of their trip because they didn't get to the phone right at 9am (or 6am Pacific time?)

Like you said though, members who booked prior to April 1st may have taken up all the rooms already, especially in the highly sought after categories. And for special dates like Thanksgiving and Christmas, those that plan to arrive earlier would definitely have an advantage with the new system. Folks arriving Monday and staying for a week (Thanksgiving, for example), would likely tie up the most sought after rooms for those arriving Tuesday or Wednesday of the same week.

At least with the old system, the playing field was level ... whoever got through the MS Call fastest gets the room. With the new system, you might not even have a chance.

Put another way:

With the old system, at 9am, you know there are rooms available 11 months out for whatever you want -- the question is are you fast enough to get them?

With the new system, at 9am, everything you want might already be gone.
 
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Like you said though, members who booked prior to April 1st may have taken up all the rooms already, especially in the highly sought after categories. And for special dates like Thanksgiving and Christmas, those that plan to arrive earlier would definitely have an advantage with the new system. Folks arriving Monday and staying for a week (Thanksgiving, for example), would likely tie up the most sought after rooms for those arriving Tuesday or Wednesday of the same week.

At least with the old system, the playing field was level ... whoever got through the MS Call fastest gets the room. With the new system, you might not even have a chance.

Put another way:

With the old system, at 9am, you know there are rooms available 11 months out for whatever you want -- the question is are you fast enough to get them?

With the new system, at 9am, everything you want might already be gone.

Since "real" numbers are impossible to produce, let's at least use an illustration.

Take Thanksgiving for example. Let's say there are 500 rooms. 550 people want to book Thanksgiving night right at 11 months.

Old System: It's a free-for-all at 9am (6am Pacific, Lord knows what time overseas) with 500 getting their reservation and 50 getting nothing. Some of those 50 are almost certainly people who have Wednesday and prior already booked, but are now left with holes in their trip.

New System: All-or-nothing. Those arriving earlier in the week will have an advantage, but at least their entire trip is secure. Those who start calling that morning will have less inventory remaining, but will also be able to secure their entire trip if they do get a room.

I'm really struggling to decide which is better. I think the possibility that people may call 11 months out and not be able to continue booking their trip as planned (old system) is really awful.

All things considered, the old system may be fairer (first-come, first-served), but I still think it leaves a lot to be desired when people are held captive by their telephone every morning for a week. And even then they live under the constant threat of ruining their planning if they can't make it to the phone for some reason.

However you slice it, when demand exceeds supply, someone is going to be shut-out. Is it better that we shut-out the party who has not yet begun to book, or potentially a member in the midst of booking? :confused3
 
Why change the system if it isn't broke? DVC seems to make snap decisions before thinking about all the possible circumstances. I don't know which system will be more beneficial for 11 or 7 month booking windows. I do know that I have always gotten the dates we wanted the old way. I hope this doesn't change that.
 
Since "real" numbers are impossible to produce, let's at least use an illustration.

Take Thanksgiving for example. Let's say there are 500 rooms. 550 people want to book Thanksgiving night right at 11 months.

Old System: It's a free-for-all at 9am (6am Pacific, Lord knows what time overseas) with 500 getting their reservation and 50 getting nothing. Some of those 50 are almost certainly people who have Wednesday and prior already booked, but are now left with holes in their trip.

New System: All-or-nothing. Those arriving earlier in the week will have an advantage, but at least their entire trip is secure. Those who start calling that morning will have less inventory remaining, but will also be able to secure their entire trip if they do get a room.

I'm really struggling to decide which is better. I think the possibility that people may call 11 months out and not be able to continue booking their trip as planned (old system) is really awful.

All things considered, the old system may be fairer (first-come, first-served), but I still think it leaves a lot to be desired when people are held captive by their telephone every morning for a week. And even then they live under the constant threat of ruining their planning if they can't make it to the phone for some reason.

However you slice it, when demand exceeds supply, someone is going to be shut-out. Is it better that we shut-out the party who has not yet begun to book, or potentially a member in the midst of booking? :confused3

I agree. I just joined a few weeks ago and have yet to take a trip, but one of my concerns was the day-by-day booking.

Lets say I have a 5-day trip that I want to take. Under the old system I would book day by day (for the busy periods). Suppose I get a high-demand room for the first night, then the second night, but I call on the 3rd day and it's taken. I call on day four and can get the room again, but day five is gone when I call, as well. Under the old system I would have to waitlist and hope for those two days (days 3 and 5), and/or wait until the 7-month window for another resort, which would make me move four times during my stay.

I understand that some people will work the system, there always are. But the fact that someone may "take" my room because their stay started before mine doesn't sound right to me. They were there first.

Now I know DVC isn't a hotel room, but in the spirit of argument, let's say it is. If I were to book a room for New Years Eve in Times Square, I wouldn't call up the hotel and book night by night; I would book a stay. If I did try to book night by night, I highly doubt that they would link the reservations together. Why should DVC be any different? So why should someone who is starting their vacation after me get a chance at the room I'm staying in the previous night because they got MS on the line before I did?

I'm not saying the old system allowed people to work the system in a different way, but I do think it helped some while hurting others.
 
I agree with tjkraz on one point. If these rooms/nights are so in demand, then DVC should reallocate points. Simple economics should dictate that and I would think that it would be in DVC's best interest to do so because I would think that a system that levels demand year round would be the most efficient.

I can see where people do not like the new system. For me, it's a wash. I am one of those that is just as happy at SSR or OKW or BCV or whatever. Plus, to me (I know I am in the minority here) things like Concierge are a waste of points - (Please note: I am not saying it is a waste of points for everyone, because we all have different tastes, just saying how it is for me). It's Disney, it's all great.

I will probably never call day-by-day because it is too much of a hassle, but I do admire those of you dedicated enough to do so and I do think that this will impact you. However, I can see the other side of the fence as well, especially when BLT comes in. This could go either way:

Old System:

Me: Hi MS, I'd like to reserve my week at BLT.

MS: Well I can only get you 5 of those nights because we are full up 2 of those nights with people doing 1-night stays for MNSSHP, so you are out of luck.

New system:

Me: Hello MS, I'd like to reserve my week at BLT.

MS: Sure.

Next person: Hello MS, I need a 1-night stay at BLT followed by 6 at OKW.

MS: Sorry.


Is it more fair for one or the other? Different shades of grey...
 
Can some one advise me what date to book for dec 6 2009 now they have changed the system::yes:: :)
 
MS said this info will be out in the next issue of Disney Files, which might mean they are testing it out,since we just recieved the last one
 
I am a relatively new member who is about to try a GV at OKW for 5 weekdays. I see that I am now at disadvantage to those who have enough current year point to book and then add a day and then chop the front off. The weekend point users will also have an advantage if they start there reservations on a weekend when OKW GV reservations are much more available.

This is new policy is definitely a disadvantage if you book only a few days because everyone booking a longer reservation beginning before and overlapping yours has a preference to those days.

I do not think that this was well though trough and certainly should have been publicly announced before implementation.

The first few days are going to be great but once the week ahead reservation start to stack up is when the nothing available at 9:00 am is going to start for short term high demand reservations.

The fix of not letting there be changes to reservations to overcome the front end chopping strategies destroys one of the best features of DVC, its flexibility. With the way airline prices and schedules are changing this flexibility is crucial.

The other more convoluted fix is to keep the day by day for the known popular times and categories and do the 7+ system for the other reservations. This could keep the level playing field for the most competitive reservations and still reduce the CM load for the bulk of the reservations.

I think that there may be a partial fix by not allowing front-end chop offs for say week or 2. This would not solve the problem of people with 400+ home resort points but they are few (unfortunately I would guess some of the serial point renters who would still have an advantage).

I guess the bottom line is that the value of my DVC contract just went down for me with this change and the inequities that is embodies.

Also I was planning on buying a few points (40-60) in the unannounced BLT DVC and later doing the same at BCV but with this change and the great disadvantage it put short stay people at during high demand time I am canceling that plan and will probably not buy any more points.

I guess I will email this to DVC, but I suspect that there email box is overflowing

bookwrmde
 
I do appreciate all the discussion from tjkraz on the applications of the new system.

I do want to address your question that was something along of the lines of is it better to call the old way at 9am and be shut out possibly in the middle of your reservation?

Well, you could be shut out with this new system, too...but possibly even before you have a chance to call.

I think people understand first come, first serve. If you don't get on the phone early enough for whatever reason, that's the breaks and it's your own fault.

With this new system, it's not anything a member chose to do...other than check in on a later date than someone else. That member may well have NO days available when they call on their first day.

That situation is concerning.

Will it happen all the time? No, I really don't think so.

But we've already all brought up the multiple times of year and multiple types of units for which this system will make it even harder than it already is to get a unit. Meaning you may be on the waitlist a lot more often right at the 11 month window.

I think we all can agree that there are times you know the waitlist will come into play. And we know that AKV concierge, for example, will always sell out in minutes. But the fact that it could be sold out days in advance before your own 11 month window opens, before you have even have a chance to try for it...that's the concerning part of this new system.
 
I think we are (DISers) all better off.

Only we know about the change, and we're what? 5% of DVC Owners?

The other 95% don't know about this, and when they finally find out, it will be too late for that particular reservation. And will they even begin to do the Macevellian calculations and contortions about pre-booking and rolling add-ons with front end cancellations we have discussed?

I think this system is unfair and skewed, but we 5% seem to be the winners!
 
I really wonder if it was meant as a "soft opening" approach for their reps to get used to the system before they throw it out there and get inundated with calls. Many businesses will implement stuff like this with an announcement a week later saying "on such and such date we made changes....." It is still somewhat unfair to people who are waiting for their checkout dates, but makes sense to me.

Doc, do you think this also might be a byproduct of changing to the new booking systems to match CRO? Maybe it was built into the new software and the old software just was not designed for this?

As I stated before, I don't think it is a perfect system, but looking at the MS perspective, I am sure it is a lot less aggravating than having so many people calling day by day to book reservations. It seems here on the Dis and other boards members are told "day by day is the only way to go". With the reports of busy signals and not getting through to a rep for 45 minutes, this should hopefully reduce some of the stress being put on MS, especially during peak seasons.
 
With the old system, at 9am, you know there are rooms available 11 months out for whatever you want -- the question is are you fast enough to get them?

With the new system, at 9am, everything you want might already be gone.

That's the best summary of the problem that I've seen so far. Exactly right.
 
Since "real" numbers are impossible to produce, let's at least use an illustration.

Take Thanksgiving for example. Let's say there are 500 rooms. 550 people want to book Thanksgiving night right at 11 months.

Old System: It's a free-for-all at 9am (6am Pacific, Lord knows what time overseas) with 500 getting their reservation and 50 getting nothing. Some of those 50 are almost certainly people who have Wednesday and prior already booked, but are now left with holes in their trip.

New System: All-or-nothing. Those arriving earlier in the week will have an advantage, but at least their entire trip is secure. Those who start calling that morning will have less inventory remaining, but will also be able to secure their entire trip if they do get a room.

I'm really struggling to decide which is better. I think the possibility that people may call 11 months out and not be able to continue booking their trip as planned (old system) is really awful.

All things considered, the old system may be fairer (first-come, first-served), but I still think it leaves a lot to be desired when people are held captive by their telephone every morning for a week. And even then they live under the constant threat of ruining their planning if they can't make it to the phone for some reason.

However you slice it, when demand exceeds supply, someone is going to be shut-out. Is it better that we shut-out the party who has not yet begun to book, or potentially a member in the midst of booking? :confused3
It is not true at all that under the new system you'll be able to secure your entire trip if you do get a room. You could still have days within the maximum week that previously sold out. That scenario is even LIKELY with AKV concierge.
 
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