New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[RobDoc]

... Doc, do you think this also might be a byproduct of changing to the new booking systems to match CRO? Maybe it was built into the new software and the old software just was not designed for this?

...

Nope - the CRO system doesn't have any 11 month or 7 month priority to worry about and does not limit reservations to 7 days. If you want a 10 day reservation thru CRO, you can make it all at once - with either a phone call or online. DVC members can do neither.

DVC has permuted the original policy in a number of ways with this change.

 

[Inkmahm]

I think we all can agree that there are times you know the waitlist will come into play. And we know that AKV concierge, for example, will always sell out in minutes. But the fact that it could be sold out days in advance before your own 11 month window opens, before you have even have a chance to try for it...that's the concerning part of this new system.

Exactly. The level playing field for a chance at those few rooms is gone. What was a bad situation is now much much worse for booking concierge.

 

[Beth]

We live an hour from WDW, and our average stay is 2 nights.

In 11 years as members, our longest stay has been for 5 nights - and we've done that only twice - once at HH, and once at OKW.

The ability to book one-night-stays was of great appeal to us when we bought into the plan. We go over quite often for just one night, to enjoy a nice meal and "just get away."

This new policy will DEFINITELY impact us - and I don't like it, at all.

I wonder if this would impact future sales to locals, as well?

For the last 5 years, we have gone over on Thanksgiving night - after eating with the family - and stayed through Sunday. I have great concern that that particular reservation may be very difficult to get with this new policy.

I've never written DVC before - in 11 years - but I think I would like to, this time. To whom do we send our concerns?

TIA...
~Beth

 

[Steamboat Girlie]

My question is about a reservation greater than 7 days. It seems that you will still have to book day by day when booking a ressie greater than 7 days. Am I correct in thinking this?

 

[CarolMN]

......
And on the off-chance that this were true, there are simply too many people competing for the same dates so SOMEBODY will have to be shut-out. Is it any more fair for someone in the midst of a day-by-day booking to end up with gaps in the middle of their trip because they didn't get to the phone right at 9am (or 6am Pacific time?)

This is ultimately a values question and we are not going to agree. (Perhaps it is because you own at SSR and I own at BWV? ) The problem I have is that "Big Brother" DVC has selected the winner for us and my values say that is wrong. I say let the individual members select who wins - by their willingness to call or not call.

Since "real" numbers are impossible to produce, let's at least use an illustration.

Take Thanksgiving for example. Let's say there are 500 rooms. 550 people want to book Thanksgiving night right at 11 months.

Old System: It's a free-for-all at 9am (6am Pacific, Lord knows what time overseas) with 500 getting their reservation and 50 getting nothing. Some of those 50 are almost certainly people who have Wednesday and prior already booked, but are now left with holes in their trip.

New System: All-or-nothing. Those arriving earlier in the week will have an advantage, but at least their entire trip is secure. Those who start calling that morning will have less inventory remaining, but will also be able to secure their entire trip if they do get a room.

I'm really struggling to decide which is better. I think the possibility that people may call 11 months out and not be able to continue booking their trip as planned (old system) is really awful.

All things considered, the old system may be fairer (first-come, first-served), but I still think it leaves a lot to be desired when people are held captive by their telephone every morning for a week. And even then they live under the constant threat of ruining their planning if they can't make it to the phone for some reason.

But the ability to call is controlled by the member. Why should DVC "protect" certain members from personal inconvenience? (at the expense of others, I might add).

......However you slice it, when demand exceeds supply, someone is going to be shut-out. Is it better that we shut-out the party who has not yet begun to book, or potentially a member in the midst of booking?

Why is my vacation that starts a few days earlier (for the same number of nights and room) more worthy than yours? Again, a values question!

I think jdg345 really sums it up nicely!

....With the old system, at 9am, you know there are rooms available 11 months out for whatever you want -- the question is are you fast enough to get them?

With the new system, at 9am, everything you want might already be gone.

If the new policy stands, I do not think it should apply during the home resort booking advantage. Booking a reservation at your home resort should continue to be based on first come, first served (IMHO).

That would take care of all the concerns about the specialty booking categories. It would also be "simple" enough for us members to understand.

 

[WolfpackFan]

It sounds to me that DVC is doing all it can to reduce costs at MS with this move. Fewer phone calls means fewer CM's. Plus I also think this could be one of many steps that simplify bookings that will eventually end up with on-line booking. Think how much money that would save DVC. Personally I would much rather do day-by-day booking and have more of a level playing field. It's going to be interesting to see how it works in two weeks when I call to get a ressie for a 1BR at HHI next June. Day by day I wouldn't be concerned about availability but all of a sudden I am concerned.

One comfort is the ability to abuse the new system is really only available to folks with shorter reservations. If you have a 6 or 7 day reservation, you wouldn't get much benefit. I wonder what percentage make 3-4 vs. 6-7 day reservations. Also, you've got to have the points to make those extra days and then cancel. How many folks have those extra points and are willing to do this I wonder?

 

[horselover]

However you slice it, when demand exceeds supply, someone is going to be shut-out. Is it better that we shut-out the party who has not yet begun to book, or potentially a member in the midst of booking?

Call me naive & simplistic, but maybe if management or whomever makes such decision would consider increasing the inventory for DVC members (especially during peak times like X-mas) instead of holding back so many rooms for cash reservations it would help alleviate the situation. Considering that they are selling like crazy with more & more members joining I can only see things getting worse not better. IMHO.

 

[TenThousandVolts]

This is ultimately a values question and we are not going to agree. (Perhaps it is because you own at SSR and I own at BWV? ) ...

tjkraz owns at BWV also

 

[snackyx]

To combat "abuse" of the system any reservation made where THE FIRST DAY OF THE TRIP OR MORE is cancelled should have the entire reservation cancelled. That person should then go back into the system and take their chances with whatever inventory is available at that time. Those who want to "game" the system, as detailed in previous posts within this thread, would effectively have that "playing the system" element removed. No doubt--there will be legitiment times when an honest reservation has to cancel the first day of a trip, but I think the number of those instances is a fraction of the people who would make bogus early reservations and cancel the front portion to keep the highly desired "back" portion of the reservation.

 

[LisaS]

My question is about a reservation greater than 7 days. It seems that you will still have to book day by day when booking a ressie greater than 7 days. Am I correct in thinking this?

Sorry if I've missed it in all the replies here but do we have a definitive answer to this question? Let's say I want to book a 10-night stay for the nights of Oct 1 - 10. I can book the first 7 nights on Nov 1st. Can I call back on Nov 2nd to add the night of Oct 8th or do I have to wait until Nov 8th to add that night plus my remaining 3 days (Oct 8, 9, 10)?

 

[tjkraz]

This is ultimately a values question and we are not going to agree. (Perhaps it is because you own at SSR and I own at BWV? ) The problem I have is that "Big Brother" DVC has selected the winner for us and my values say that is wrong. I say let the individual members select who wins - by their willingness to call or not call.

But the ability to call is controlled by the member. Why should DVC "protect" certain members from personal inconvenience? (at the expense of others, I might add).

Why is my vacation that starts a few days earlier (for the same number of nights and room) more worthy than yours? Again, a values question!

I think jdg345 really sums it up nicely!



If the new policy stands, I do not think it should apply during the home resort booking advantage. Booking a reservation at your home resort should continue to be based on first come, first served (IMHO).

That would take care of all the concerns about the specialty booking categories. It would also be "simple" enough for us members to understand.

A few comments:

1. Please don't assume that I have really made up my mind here as to what is "right" and what is "wrong." I'm just "thinking out loud", trying to spur debate and get people to look at the situation from both sides. I think some may be taking the approach of "all change is bad" without really examining the issues.

2. On the issue of fairness / values / selecting the winner, hasn't DVC been influencing that for years? Aren't they already "protecting" people who have the locale and career which enables them to be on the telephone for 20 minutes at 9am up to 7 days straight?

What about members who live in England or California or Alaska? What about members who are doctors or teachers with limited telephone access at 9am on weekdays?

Aren't these members already victims of DVC's East Coast bias which effectively "protects" those in the Eastern time zone who are retired, non-working or have careers that don't restrict telephone access?

3. TenThousandVolts is right--I also own points at the BoardWalk.

 

[Goofy's apprentice]

Keep in mind that no matter what system exists there will be loopholes. Too much energy closing loopholes, opens others, disadvantages some and helps others. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that any system can be entirely fair to everyone as other posters have noted already....

Remember the days when multiple reservations and waitlists were possible? If you wanted BCV or BWV during Food and Wine, and you had enough points you tried to accumulate enough multiple reservations until one came through with all your days. I admit, I did it. How was that fair to everyone? I was holding rooms I know I wouldn't use...They closed that possibility. I survived and even still have success in getting what the reservation I want. So clearly, I was clogging the system unnecessarily...

Due to work commitments I will often have to adjust my vacation by a day or two. At 11 months for this fall I reserved for a vacation starting on a Tuesday for a week. Work commitments changed and I had to cancel the Tuesday and Wednesday...perfectly legitimate but this suggested loophole would have me suspected of abusing the system. And yes, it is the busy first week of November, which I managed to switch to BWV using waitlists...

Saying that, I really appreciate these boards because every change is analysed to the minutist detail and you get to hear everyone's viewpoint.

Keep the discussions going !

 

[CinderellaPug]

Wow!!!

All these changes are fascinating. I am not sure how all these changes will affect us yet because I think it is too early to say. However, I would like to comment on how this information has been distributed.

As a DVC owner at BWV, I am disappointed there has not been greater communication for these changes. According to an earlier post, DVC will have an article detailing the changes in the Fall issue of Disney Files. I believe that is insufficient. Wouldn't posting something on the member website would be a much more timely way of distributing information on these changes?

I am sure there are many DVC members who do not read these boards and still might not have any idea that anything is different.

CP

 

[TisBit]

Keep in mind that no matter what system exists there will be loopholes. Too much energy closing loopholes, opens others, disadvantages some and helps others. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that any system can be entirely fair to everyone as other posters have noted already....

Remember the days when multiple reservations and waitlists were possible? If you wanted BCV or BWV during Food and Wine, and you had enough points you tried to accumulate enough multiple reservations until one came through with all your days. I admit, I did it. How was that fair to everyone? I was holding rooms I know I wouldn't use...They closed that possibility. I survived and even still have success in getting what the reservation I want. So clearly, I was clogging the system unnecessarily...

Due to work commitments I will often have to adjust my vacation by a day or two. At 11 months for this fall I reserved for a vacation starting on a Tuesday for a week. Work commitments changed and I had to cancel the Tuesday and Wednesday...perfectly legitimate but this suggested loophole would have me suspected of abusing the system. And yes, it is the busy first week of November, which I managed to switch to BWV using waitlists...

Saying that, I really appreciate these boards because every change is analysed to the minutist detail and you get to hear everyone's viewpoint.

Keep the discussions going !

I agree that there is often a knee jerk reaction to the idea of change, in any fashion. Some would say it that the ones that fight this change are the ones already "working" the system with day by day bookings anyway.

With the new system there will be loopholes, with the old system there were loopholes, there is no perfect system out there. I don't necessarily disagree with the change, I can see a management perspective of keeping costs down by eliminating many of the day by day bookings that tie up the call center and require more employees. Yes, there will still be those that are working the system, but for the greatest part of the DVC community (those especially that don't look at the tips and tricks here on Dis) there will not be a lot of change or they may feel better because they have a better chance against the "experts".

As far as those that feel that disney is saying one vacation is more important than another, I don't see that....and I feel that the reverse argument could be made. Maybe they do value a "full" vacation and don't want members who are trying to go to have so many holes in their vacation. Maybe the idea of first come first serve is just that, the people who arrive first are given a priority for their length of stay vs someone who arrives later.

 

[jdg345]

I am a relatively new member who is about to try a GV at OKW for 5 weekdays. I see that I am now at disadvantage to those who have enough current year point to book and then add a day and then chop the front off. The weekend point users will also have an advantage if they start there reservations on a weekend when OKW GV reservations are much more available.

This is new policy is definitely a disadvantage if you book only a few days because everyone booking a longer reservation beginning before and overlapping yours has a preference to those days.

I do not think that this was well though trough and certainly should have been publicly announced before implementation.

The first few days are going to be great but once the week ahead reservation start to stack up is when the nothing available at 9:00 am is going to start for short term high demand reservations.

The fix of not letting there be changes to reservations to overcome the front end chopping strategies destroys one of the best features of DVC, its flexibility. With the way airline prices and schedules are changing this flexibility is crucial.

The other more convoluted fix is to keep the day by day for the known popular times and categories and do the 7+ system for the other reservations. This could keep the level playing field for the most competitive reservations and still reduce the CM load for the bulk of the reservations.

I think that there may be a partial fix by not allowing front-end chop offs for say week or 2. This would not solve the problem of people with 400+ home resort points but they are few (unfortunately I would guess some of the serial point renters who would still have an advantage).

I guess the bottom line is that the value of my DVC contract just went down for me with this change and the inequities that is embodies.

Also I was planning on buying a few points (40-60) in the unannounced BLT DVC and later doing the same at BCV but with this change and the great disadvantage it put short stay people at during high demand time I am canceling that plan and will probably not buy any more points.

I guess I will email this to DVC, but I suspect that there email box is overflowing

bookwrmde

This goes back to what Doc mentioned earlier, and others have said as well. The new system favors those with more points, especially those that did Fri/Sat reservations. If they don't allow you to cut off/modify reservations, then those arriving Friday/Saturday are going to have an advantage and it will be much harder to get Sunday-Thursday stays. Perhaps this is something Disney was trying to do? Get more people to stay at the higher weekend point cost?

The thing I don't like about the new system is that you could be shut out before you even had a chance. At least the old way, everyone had a shot at 9am.

 

[jdg345]

I do appreciate all the discussion from tjkraz on the applications of the new system.

I do want to address your question that was something along of the lines of is it better to call the old way at 9am and be shut out possibly in the middle of your reservation?

Well, you could be shut out with this new system, too...but possibly even before you have a chance to call.

I think people understand first come, first serve. If you don't get on the phone early enough for whatever reason, that's the breaks and it's your own fault.

With this new system, it's not anything a member chose to do...other than check in on a later date than someone else. That member may well have NO days available when they call on their first day.

That situation is concerning.

Will it happen all the time? No, I really don't think so.

But we've already all brought up the multiple times of year and multiple types of units for which this system will make it even harder than it already is to get a unit. Meaning you may be on the waitlist a lot more often right at the 11 month window.

I think we all can agree that there are times you know the waitlist will come into play. And we know that AKV concierge, for example, will always sell out in minutes. But the fact that it could be sold out days in advance before your own 11 month window opens, before you have even have a chance to try for it...that's the concerning part of this new system.

This is exactly my biggest issue with it as well. The old way, everyone had a shot. This new way, because someone has a larger point bank and is going to arrive Fri/Sat, you get shut out before you even had a chance. Imagine Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years Weeks. The latter two being easiest to manipulate by those with large Point Banks.

I wonder if they'll even let you waitlist if the first days of your reservation are already taken? If not, then someone booking Christmas could easily lock up the entire week with two reservations and then just modify the second to encompass New Years as well.

The old way just seemed more fair.

 

[jdg345]

I really wonder if it was meant as a "soft opening" approach for their reps to get used to the system before they throw it out there and get inundated with calls. Many businesses will implement stuff like this with an announcement a week later saying "on such and such date we made changes....." It is still somewhat unfair to people who are waiting for their checkout dates, but makes sense to me.

Doc, do you think this also might be a byproduct of changing to the new booking systems to match CRO? Maybe it was built into the new software and the old software just was not designed for this?

As I stated before, I don't think it is a perfect system, but looking at the MS perspective, I am sure it is a lot less aggravating than having so many people calling day by day to book reservations. It seems here on the Dis and other boards members are told "day by day is the only way to go". With the reports of busy signals and not getting through to a rep for 45 minutes, this should hopefully reduce some of the stress being put on MS, especially during peak seasons.

This is hard to say. If they don't make any other changes, what's to stop someone from calling a week earlier so that their last day is the first day they *really* wanted; and then calling day by day to change that reservation? We may end up with the same number, if not more, day-by-day reservations, they're just going to start a week earlier (or maybe even earlier than that) -- you can start 2 weeks earlier to make sure you 'beat' those starting a week earlier. It has the potential to become a horrible mess.

 

[jdg345]

Nope - the CRO system doesn't have any 11 month or 7 month priority to worry about and does not limit reservations to 7 days. If you want a 10 day reservation thru CRO, you can make it all at once - with either a phone call or online. DVC members can do neither.

DVC has permuted the original policy in a number of ways with this change.

Main Entry: per·mute
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): per·mut·ed; per·mut·ing
Etymology: Middle English, to exchange, from Anglo-French or Latin; Anglo-French permuter, from Latin permutare, from per- + mutare to change — more at mutable
Date: 1878
: to change the order or arrangement of; especially : to arrange in all possible ways
— per·mut·able \-ˈmyü-tə-bəl\ adjective

 

[jdg345]

We live an hour from WDW, and our average stay is 2 nights.

In 11 years as members, our longest stay has been for 5 nights - and we've done that only twice - once at HH, and once at OKW.

The ability to book one-night-stays was of great appeal to us when we bought into the plan. We go over quite often for just one night, to enjoy a nice meal and "just get away."

This new policy will DEFINITELY impact us - and I don't like it, at all.

I wonder if this would impact future sales to locals, as well?

For the last 5 years, we have gone over on Thanksgiving night - after eating with the family - and stayed through Sunday. I have great concern that that particular reservation may be very difficult to get with this new policy.

I've never written DVC before - in 11 years - but I think I would like to, this time. To whom do we send our concerns?

TIA...
~Beth

DVCMemberSatisfactionTeam@disneyvacationclub.com

 

[jdg345]

If the new policy stands, I do not think it should apply during the home resort booking advantage. Booking a reservation at your home resort should continue to be based on first come, first served (IMHO).

That would take care of all the concerns about the specialty booking categories. It would also be "simple" enough for us members to understand.

This is a WONDERFUL idea! It still hurts those booking/swapping at 7 months, but, at least Home Resort Priority feels a little more ... Priority-ish.