New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[Cruiser1969]

Here is how the popular times will have to work.

I want to do a vacation December 25 to January 1. So, here is how I have to do it.

On January 19 I call MS. Book 7 days from December 19 to checkout on December 26.
On January 20 I call MS. Extend my 7 day stay to now checkout on December 27. Then I cancel my December 19 reservation.
On January 21 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 28. Then I cance my December 20 reservation.
On January 22 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 29. Then I cancel my December 21 reservation.
On January 23 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 30. Then I cancel my December 22 reservation.
On January 24 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 31. Then I cancel my December 23 reservation.
On January 25 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on January 1. Then I cancel my December 24 reservation.

I will print this out and hang it on my fridge for handy reference

If MS thought they were busy before . . .

 

[doconeill]

Here is how the popular times will have to work.

I want to do a vacation December 25 to January 1. So, here is how I have to do it.

On January 19 I call MS. Book 7 days from December 19 to checkout on December 26.
On January 20 I call MS. Extend my 7 day stay to now checkout on December 27. Then I cancel my December 19 reservation.
On January 21 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 28. Then I cance my December 20 reservation.
On January 22 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 29. Then I cancel my December 21 reservation.
On January 23 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 30. Then I cancel my December 22 reservation.
On January 24 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 31. Then I cancel my December 23 reservation.
On January 25 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on January 1. Then I cancel my December 24 reservation.

I now have what I really wanted. This is going to be very complicated to get done, but it's going to have to be that way. Now, the biggest challenge is making sure you have enough points to book 7 days worth of stay if you only want to do this for a stay shorter.

I don't like it, but there is still a way to get the popular times or popular locations.

But, as I explained in my earlier post, someone could start doing this earlier than you and tie up the room so that you can't book it even at the start. It becomes a "me first" game. This is why there needs to be some sort of control or penalty, where one was not needed before.

 

[ScottakaMickey]

You've totally explained how it can be done, thanks! That's assuming MS will let you drop that first night without making a brand new reservation.

Yep. That is the key. I do think you'll need to make the new one first, primarily to make sure you get that day, then cancel the other.

 

[jdg345]

But, as I explained in my earlier post, someone could start doing this earlier than you and tie up the room so that you can't book it even at the start. It becomes a "me first" game. This is why there needs to be some sort of control or penalty, where one was not needed before.

Exactly! Using this type of system, you can effectively start to book December 2010 today, right now.

 

[DanenRox]

Despite loving Disney madly, I am aware that their motivations are financially based. The new system is absolutely skewed to benefit those who hold larger amounts of points. The solution for the little guy...buy more points. It's really too bad because DVC was marketed as an affordable opportunity for every family...this reservation scenerio would seem to create different levels of ownership....'gaurenteed reservations, good chance for reservations, good luck with reservations. For what it's worth I've emailed MS.

 

[kikiq]

Exactly! Using this type of system, you can effectively start to book December 2010 today, right now.

How? 11month for anyone would be Jan/Feb2009.

 

[jdg345]

Here's the Email address for anyone else interested in sharing your opinions with MS:

DVCMemberSatisfactionTeam@disneyvacationclub.com

 

[jdg345]

How? 11month for anyone would be Jan/Feb2009.

By doing what doconeill suggested here: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=25789700#post25789700.

Let's say for example that I wanted to book December 25th through the 31st.

I call on the 19th and book 19th through 25th with the plan of calling day by day and adjusting until I end up with the 25th through the 31st.

Now, let's say you want the same dates and you know I'm going to do that, so you call on the 18th and book the 18th through the 24th. Now when I call on the 19th, I don't have any availability that day because you snapped up the last day yesterday.

So now I need to call on the 17th to beat you out of calling on the 18th.

In the end, this only complicates things as it will still lead to day-by-day booking imo. We would both have the same shot on the 18th (me making a change and you making an initial reservation), but since it's usually quicker to change a ressie than to create a new one, the advantage is still mine.

Rinse, lather, and repeat. It all comes down to how early people will feel they need to start this game.

Frankly, I like the old way better ... the only way to really 'fix' this would be to make it so that a length of stay change would force a cancellation and rebook, but there are plenty of reasons that this may be needed, especially when someone is travelling via air. If you need to arrive a day later or cut a day short for work reasons, you either need to risk losing the whole reservation or you essentially forfeit points. Yuck.

 

[TDC Nala]

well, the problem I have with it is that I want to book something for which the booking date based on checkout is February 1, 2009. The booking date based on checkin is January 30, 2009.

I will be in Australia through February 3 and can't call until then. What are the odds I will get anything? It's a 7 month reservation as I don't have the points to book my home resort and need something with less points.

 

[maciec]

OMG! They better come out with some details soon before I pass out from dizziness .

 

[RobDoc]

Use years have nothing to do with when you can book a ressie, it's always 11 months from your check in day, unless this changes back to check out day

True - Use Year has nothing to do with when you can make a reservation - BUT - in this case, Johnny Fedora was using an example of a member who will need to use points from two different contracts to make a the reservation. Unless a transfer is done - which generally slows down the process - the member will need to reserve some days from the first contract and the rest from the other and there will be two different reservations and two different confirmation numbers. While MS will link these together allowing a seamless stay with only one registration/check-in process, under the new policy the entire reservation cannot be reserved with one phone call when two contracts must be used. If 7 days are wanted and the first contract has only enough points for 4 days, the member will need to wait until 11 months from the 5th day to complete the reservation - so multiple phone calls will still be needed. ... and in this scenario it's possible that there could be no availability when the member calls back for the 5th, 6th and 7th nights of the stay - depending on the circumstances of the reservation (dates, resort, villa type).

Under the old rules, the member would be able to reserve the entire reservation with one call 11 months from the departure date or reserve day-by-day using both contracts as needed.

 

[jdg345]

well, the problem I have with it is that I want to book something for which the booking date based on checkout is February 1, 2009. The booking date based on checkin is January 30, 2009.

I will be in Australia through February 3 and can't call until then. What are the odds I will get anything? It's a 7 month reservation as I don't have the points to book my home resort and need something with less points.

You can always make someone an associate on your account and have them make the ressie for you.

 

[DVC Mike]

Well, I personally think this change is less "fair" than the previous system, which although somewhat cumbersome, did level the playing field.

I also think DVC really screwed up with their implementation of this change. As usual, poor training for MS and no advance communication to members.

In any case, I'm sure I'll find ways to use the new system to my advantage and get the reservations I want. I just don't think every DVC member will understand how to do so.

 

[tjkraz]

Here is how the popular times will have to work.

I want to do a vacation December 25 to January 1. So, here is how I have to do it.

On January 19 I call MS. Book 7 days from December 19 to checkout on December 26.
On January 20 I call MS. Extend my 7 day stay to now checkout on December 27. Then I cancel my December 19 reservation.
On January 21 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 28. Then I cance my December 20 reservation.
On January 22 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 29. Then I cancel my December 21 reservation.
On January 23 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 30. Then I cancel my December 22 reservation.
On January 24 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on December 31. Then I cancel my December 23 reservation.
On January 25 I call MS. Extend my new 7 day stay to now checkout on January 1. Then I cancel my December 24 reservation.

I now have what I really wanted. This is going to be very complicated to get done, but it's going to have to be that way. Now, the biggest challenge is making sure you have enough points to book 7 days worth of stay if you only want to do this for a stay shorter.

I don't like it, but there is still a way to get the popular times or popular locations.

The linchpin to this is, of course, the theory that demand is such that every single room in the resort/class you are seeking will be gone if you wait until January 25th. I'm not sure I buy that.

If the booking system is so out of whack that demand is excessively high for certain times of the year, then the next change DVC needs to make is with the point charts. Bumping early-December up a season or two would probably do wonders for people booking those dates.

There is no perfect system. If asked for an opinion, I would probably favor the old system by a very, VERY small margin. Still I'm looking forward to not having to make multiple calls to book a single trip and not having to wait on hold for 20 minutes each time to speak to a rep.

Other timeshares have based bookings on check-in date and I'm not aware of their owners clamoring for changes. I'm inclined to take a wait and see approach rather then buy into the hysteria.

 

[ScottakaMickey]

The linchpin to this is, of course, the theory that demand is such that every single room in the resort/class you are seeking will be gone if you wait until January 25th. I'm not sure I buy that.

If the booking system is so out of whack that demand is excessively high for certain times of the year, then the next change DVC needs to make is with the point charts. Bumping early-December up a season or two would probably do wonders for people booking those dates.

I have never seen a poll for this question, but with the "old" system how many days past January 26 were people able to book a reservation starting on December 25? Not counting the cancelations that do occur, but just by calling DVC some date after the 26th of January were people able to book for Christmas day. I don't think it's too far past that date, so to me the date is very very popular.

The other category that this affects even more are the GV's and AK Conceirge rooms, which already demand an 11 month booking during most of the year, and typically don't take a full 7 day vacation, they do, but most I've read only do AK Conceirge for a much smaller number of days.

Do you really think bumping up the points required to book high demad will actually reduce the demand for those times. I think all that would do is sell more points for Disney as people really do want to travel during those times. Yes, for me higher points for those times, would give me more value for my points, as I typically go during the off times.

 

[RobDoc]

...
Other timeshares have based bookings on check-in date and I'm not aware of their owners clamoring for changes. I'm inclined to take a wait and see approach rather then buy into the hysteria.

For over 16 years, DVC has based bookings on check-out date and I'm not aware that their owners clamored for changes - but it appears we now have changes being forced upon us without any explanation and inconsistency in the way it has been presented to owners thus far.

I would not call the response by members thus far hysteria - but I would describe DVC's behavior to date as arrogant. Why not at least have something posted - with typical Disney "spin" - on the member's site to coincide with MS implementing the new policy. The site still states the reservations may be made 11 months from departure date. Even the MS reps have been inconsistent today in their response to reasonable questions by members wanting information - some reps have stated that if a stay more than 7 days is wanted, additional days may be added in subsequent, sequential days while other reps have insited that no days may be added for another week.

Why can't this rushed policy at least be presented in a consistent manner by the only source of information for members at this time since DVC has chosen not to provide any details in writing - either by email, website or official document?

 

[tjkraz]

I have never seen a poll for this question, but with the "old" system how many days past January 26 were people able to book a reservation starting on December 25? Not counting the cancelations that do occur, but just by calling DVC some date after the 26th of January were people able to book for Christmas day. I don't think it's too far past that date, so to me the date is very very popular.

I don't think that Christmas week is as popular as you suggest. New Year's Eve is VERY popular, but not that entire week since the points are so high.

But that's splitting hairs because there certainly are periods with excessively high demand. In my mind, the question is really one of how wide that gulf is right at 11 months.

Will BWV Standard View for December be available at 7 months? No way.

Will BWV Standard View for December be available exactly at 11 months? Absolutely--at least with day-by-day bookings.

Will BWV Standard View for December be available at 10 1/2 months? That's where we start to get into the gray area.

The perception seems to be that certain room classes are booking up right at 11 months and this staggered reservation system will mean that some of those classes will already be completely unavailable at 11 months. That's where I'm unwilling to drink the kool aid.

The other category that this affects even more are the GV's and AK Conceirge rooms, which already demand an 11 month booking during most of the year, and typically don't take a full 7 day vacation, they do, but most I've read only do AK Conceirge for a much smaller number of days.

The GVs are certainly in demand, but the vast majority of the year they aren't being booked solid 11 months to the day.

AK Concierge is difficult to discuss simply because it was so ill-conceived from the start. Even under the old day-by-day system there was a very, very high chance that someone calling at 9:10am wouldn't be be locked-out of the size room they had already booked for 2-3 nights. No booking system is going to "fix" AKV conceirge.

Do you really think bumping up the points required to book high demad will actually reduce the demand for those times. I think all that would do is sell more points for Disney as people really do want to travel during those times. Yes, for me higher points for those times, would give me more value for my points, as I typically go during the off times.

Supply and demand says it would help.

The entire reason for the point system is to balance demand. If the comments here are accurate, resorts are nearly full for early December 11 months out to the day. Why in the world do those dates remain classified as the lowest point cost of the year?!?!

At the other end of the spectrum you've got the month of May where you pretty much have your choice of resorts at 7 months. Rooms cost about 30% more points in May than early December.

 

[tjkraz]

For over 16 years, DVC has based bookings on check-out date and I'm not aware that their owners clamored for changes...

I think there has been a fair amount of dissatisfaction voiced over the growing need to do day-by-day bookings to compete with those who have already embraced the process.

On the surface the new system seems like a no-brainer; seven phone calls reduced to one, less on-hold time, lower phone costs, lower staffing costs, etc. IMO, it's only when we start discussing how people could manipulate and abuse the new system that it begins to tarnish a bit.

My point was simply that the two different systems are both in use within the industry. This isn't something that DVC cooked-up on their own--both systems are tried-and-true. And I think there's evidence to suggest that the new system is more member-friendly.

...but it appears we now have changes being forced upon us without any explanation and inconsistency in the way it has been presented to owners thus far.

I would not call the response by members thus far hysteria - but I would describe DVC's behavior to date as arrogant. Why not at least have something posted - with typical Disney "spin" - on the member's site to coincide with MS implementing the new policy. The site still states the reservations may be made 11 months from departure date. Even the MS reps have been inconsistent today in their response to reasonable questions by members wanting information - some reps have stated that if a stay more than 7 days is wanted, additional days may be added in subsequent, sequential days while other reps have insited that no days may be added for another week.

Why can't this rushed policy at least be presented in a consistent manner by the only source of information for members at this time since DVC has chosen not to provide any details in writing - either by email, website or official document?

Well, I'll politely disagree a bit on the "hysteria" front. It seems like there has been ample speculation over how future bookings will be impacted by those trying to manipulate the new rules.

As for the communications--or lack thereof--certainly I'm in total agreement there. If we give DVC the benefit of the doubt, I think they assumed that the changes would be universally embraced by members. For whatever reason, I don't think they were prepared for all of the "what if" questions that have been tossed at them today.

However, the lack of any sort of statement on the member website is completely inexcusable.

 

[huey578]

Ok maybe I'm too new of a member (Oct 2008) to know any better but I like the new system but going to take a wait and see attitude until we get the official word from DVC.

 

[Inkmahm]

I booked today may 20 - 27. But, I wanted 4 nights in a studio and 3 nights in a one bedroom so that not to use so many points. She let me book it for 7 nights in a studio, but would not let me book the last 3 night one bedroom even though she stated it was available. she stated it is a separate reservation and that I had to call back on the 24th and change the reservation to the one bedroom for those last 3 days. does it make sense? If they were available, the one bedrooms for the last 3 nights, shouldnt she have booked them. Also, she kept looking to see if available. I did not understand since I was one of the first people to find out about the change in booking since I called right at 9:00, just to book the night of may 20 for next year. So for people who divide their stay to save points, you have to call back.

What if you had wanted the first 3 nights in a one bedroom and the last 4 in a studio? Would you have had to book all 7 in a one bedroom and then switch the last 4 to a studio later? What if you had to borrow points to make the reservation and then had points that you couldn't return to a future year from the change to a studio from the one bedroom?
This new policy really makes no sense at all to me.