New pavilion coming to Epcot and it's not a real country

[beer dave]

Ahhhh... too much PI talk. Agreed with above-- My trips were about two equal attractions--- all of the parks,...... and PI. I must say, I was there at the end, and I can attest to the local and rif raf take over of certain areas of PI. Of course it was mostly still extremely fun, except maybe for BET, but I remember the disappointment I would feel when I would see the same people, occupying the same seats, month after month, year after year, at the AC. Now manequins, that was a riot. Pretty sure not very disney.

 

[Laketravis]

Name another (arguably) top ten, amazingly profitable, corporate brand that lets properties like River Country just rot so close to their signature facilities that there are amateur "ghost hunter" videos made by 16 year-olds who just cut over a few yards from the resort path.

We're not talking about the old abandoned Corningware factory your great-great granddad worked in you drive by once in awhile. At least take the old signs down for crissakes....

^ That.

 

[Planogirl]

Name another (arguably) top ten, amazingly profitable, corporate brand that lets properties like River Country just rot so close to their signature facilities that there are amateur "ghost hunter" videos made by 16 year-olds who just cut over a few yards from the resort path.

We're not talking about the old abandoned Corningware factory your great-great granddad worked in you drive by once in awhile. At least take the old signs down for crissakes....

Urban explorer do those videos too and the best of those is far from 16 years old.

It does look trashy and speaks to being....cheap?

 

[OldsDr]

...

Now Pleasure Island is different. Maybe you have some good stories? Or does what happens in Pleasure Island stay in Pleasure Island? I think Disney realized it was not a good match for Disney. There are plenty of nightclubs and over 21 places. The area had issues.

So none of these things are negatives, they are all actually positives!

If PI not being a good fit for Disney was the true reason for shutting it down, when it could actually be avoided by those who did not like it. I would argue that they would not allow an Outdoor bar right outside Disney Quest and Food and Wine has to be stopped too.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

That's all well and fine...

But you're still skipping the very important (but apparently not considered) point that your tickets... Certainly your Hotel rooms...even your airline tickets...have all been price adjusted upward over time to include things that are now closed and weren't replaced.

Even if redundant/out of date...subtraction is NEVER good for the customer on vacation. Not once.

Disagreed. When something is inappropriate, redundant, or dated, subtraction is a POSITIVE for the customer! River Country was doomed, Discovery Island was lame and NOT a theme park like AK which is a thousand times better. And subtraction is also about that Disney principle of constant change. Onward and upward.

I think the problem with PI was that the original experience changed as it grew more popular. Issues in PI and drunks outside became a problem, from what I have heard from family that live nearby. Maybe it would be nice in a perfect world, but I don't think Disney is the place for a PI in this day and age. Let that be at Universal which caters to an older crowd anyway, and in surrounding Orlando. I think - but I am not a party loud club person anyway - that Disney Springs is going to be perfect. I liked DTD and the music, I am going to love DS. BTW did you notice they are going to have a good quality hat store! I love it!

 

[Yellowstonetim]

If PI not being a good fit for Disney was the true reason for shutting it down, when it could actually be avoided by those who did not like it. I would argue that they would not allow an Outdoor bar right outside Disney Quest and Food and Wine has to be stopped too.

Even if people could avoid a strip club unless they wanted to visit, it still wouldn't be a good fit for Disney. Brings a whole new angle to "costume characters, though!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Disagreed. When something is inappropriate, redundant, or dated, subtraction is a POSITIVE for the customer! River Country was doomed, Discovery Island was lame and NOT a theme park like AK which is a thousand times better. And subtraction is also about that Disney principle of constant change. Onward and upward.

I think the problem with PI was that the original experience changed as it grew more popular. Issues in PI and drunks outside became a problem, from what I have heard from family that live nearby. Maybe it would be nice in a perfect world, but I don't think Disney is the place for a PI in this day and age. Let that be at Universal which caters to an older crowd anyway, and in surrounding Orlando. I think - but I am not a party loud club person anyway - that Disney Springs is going to be perfect. I liked DTD and the music, I am going to love DS. BTW did you notice they are going to have a good quality hat store! I love it!

Wow...

I love you, man...
But your "explanations" above can be filed categorically and undeniably under "Disney can do no wrong"

Way too much excuse Making here...no matter what the stock price is or how cheap the Chinese labor is

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If PI not being a good fit for Disney was the true reason for shutting it down, when it could actually be avoided by those who did not like it. I would argue that they would not allow an Outdoor bar right outside Disney Quest and Food and Wine has to be stopped too.

Indeed...

Or the daily drunk tours around regular old EPCOT from November to September annually

 

[rteetz]

Disagreed. When something is inappropriate, redundant, or dated, subtraction is a POSITIVE for the customer! River Country was doomed, Discovery Island was lame and NOT a theme park like AK which is a thousand times better. And subtraction is also about that Disney principle of constant change. Onward and upward. I think the problem with PI was that the original experience changed as it grew more popular. Issues in PI and drunks outside became a problem, from what I have heard from family that live nearby. Maybe it would be nice in a perfect world, but I don't think Disney is the place for a PI in this day and age. Let that be at Universal which caters to an older crowd anyway, and in surrounding Orlando. I think - but I am not a party loud club person anyway - that Disney Springs is going to be perfect. I liked DTD and the music, I am going to love DS. BTW did you notice they are going to have a good quality hat store! I love it!

I would beg to differ that universal caters to an older crowd. I haven't even ever been to the place and I can tell it's just as much a family destination as Disney.
Team Disney Orlando tends to not cater to locals PI was a big local draw therefore no more PI. I haven't heard ever of there being any major problems with drunks or anything like that with PI. I was also not around when PI was in its prime or even at the end of it really. I definitely think some aspects of PI could have stayed and done just fine. Disney just didn't want to to tweak it. Now we have a completely revitalized area coming while not bad I would've liked to see what PI was like.

A hat store... While I'm not a hat person it will probably be overpriced like anything in Disney and yes I do but some of those things. The only hats I wear are baseball caps and I can't tell you a difference between a quality one and a bad quality one.

 

[OldsDr]

Even if people could avoid a strip club unless they wanted to visit, it still wouldn't be a good fit for Disney. Brings a whole new angle to "costume characters, though!

Where we differ is PI was a good fit for Disney It gave a complete vacation destination. Morning, Noon and Night. Why PI stopped fitting was physical not ideological. They built up around it. When it was new it was fairly secluded. The Market place started to encroach, and then they built West side. What west side showed them was they could make money off of leases a lot easier than managing the venues their selves. They got rid of PI for one reason, to lease the land. You can’t tell me a Hat store is going to make more people happy than Adventurers Club.

 

[clsteve]

Where we differ is PI was a good fit for Disney It gave a complete vacation destination. Morning, Noon and Night. Why PI stopped fitting was physical not ideological. They built up around it. When it was new it was fairly secluded. The Market place started to encroach, and then they built West side. What west side showed them was they could make money off of leases a lot easier than managing the venues their selves. They got rid of PI for one reason, to lease the land. You can’t tell me a Hat store is going to make more people happy than Adventurers Club. Heck a hat store would be right at home on Main Street USA. But then again, there are no unique shops there anymore either.

The decline of PI also seemed to fall in line with the rise of EPCOT as the food, bev, and party extravaganza it's become.

From a bean counter perspective, Epcot is perfect compared to PI.

Higher cover charge - up to 100 bucks, creates a higher profit margin on a more expensive asset, leverages an existing headcount that's not going away while making PI's expendable, and has an earlier curfew with Park close while also having the bar now open at 11am.

Just keep extending those dates on the special events, continue to hike the cost and lower the pours and plate sizes, and shut down that adult playground that was just too much work for a chance at bigger mall footprint where you just rake in the leasing agreements.

What's not to like if you're an accountant....?

 

[mcd2745]

Where we differ is PI was a good fit for Disney It gave a complete vacation destination. Morning, Noon and Night. Why PI stopped fitting was physical not ideological. They built up around it. When it was new it was fairly secluded. The Market place started to encroach, and then they built West side. What west side showed them was they could make money off of leases a lot easier than managing the venues their selves. They got rid of PI for one reason, to lease the land. You can’t tell me a Hat store is going to make more people happy than Adventurers Club.

Great post .


PI was a perfect fit for WDW - especailly before they opened the gates. It gave the adults who were free to enjoy some nightlife a great place to go and give Disney more of their money in a completely unique (not to mention safe and friendly - and still "Disney") environment. Once they opened the gates, that environment was gone.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Great discussion...


I also reject the idea that pleasure island no longer fit the "family" company of Disney...

Before they started making adult movies (as in non animated) and delved Into cable in the early 80's? Maybe

Before they bought Capitol cities and became a fully functional media conglomerate in 1996? Possibly...

Now? When they spend the majority of their time fostering trade deals In the Far East in exchange for amusement parks?

No...I think "pleasure island no longer fit" is about as wrong of a take as you can have.

It's cheaper to lease a mall... I'm not against that as they can reduce their labor pool and use that less as an excuse why they are allowing attraction stagnation to set in...

But it is.

Turning EPCOT into a high cover drunk park...which I hadn't thought of as of yet... Is also very intriguing...
They have built add on bars/ restaurants for five years around the lagoon...if that continues - we got a trend, baby!

 

[Planogirl]

Will Epcot continue to be a party destination though? It doesn't seem to fit with Disney's desire to Princessify World Showcase.

 

[clsteve]

Will Epcot continue to be a party destination though? It doesn't seem to fit with Disney's desire to Princessify World Showcase.

As painful as it is to say, it's a brilliant addition to the NextGen Strategy if you put your accountant hat on.

"Freezing" Maelstrom and adding the generic Princess M&G is just enough to force an additional Park day (especially with probably both being tiered) or at least Park Hoppers on every family with a little Princess.

And hey, if your're Mom and/or Dad, at least you can grab a Grey Goose Slushy or a 'Rita at La Cava to deaden the pain of the extra expense. And then a meal, and then another Slushy, and then a caramel or 2 in Germany.....

No Way little Princess is leaving WDW without seeing MK and the new Anna & Elsa ride (and M&G) in Epcot.

It's easy for those of us who do 4 days to a week or more to forget that a lot of of off-site one timers might just do MK, or MK and AK with small kids, for example.

That one change changes the dynamic w/out damaging the party flow YTY.

In fact, it can enhance it in an antiseptic, only, looking at the numbers, no care about Epcot's original focus, kinda way.

Heck, if I had to make a choice as a Dad where best to stand 2 hours in line to meet the Princesses....? I'm picking the line within a stones throw of La Cava...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

As painful as it is to say, it's a brilliant addition to the NextGen Strategy if you put your accountant hat on.

"Freezing" Maelstrom and adding the generic Princess M&G is just enough to force an additional Park day (especially with probably both being tiered) or at least Park Hoppers on every family with a little Princess.

And hey, if your're Mom and/or Dad, at least you can grab a Grey Goose Slushy or a 'Rita at La Cava to deaden the pain of the extra expense. And then a meal, and then another Slushy, and then a caramel or 2 in Germany.....

No Way little Princess is leaving WDW without seeing MK and the new Anna & Elsa ride (and M&G) in Epcot.

It's easy for those of us who do 4 days to a week or more to forget that a lot of of off-site one timers might just do MK, or MK and AK with small kids, for example.

That one change changes the dynamic w/out damaging the party flow YTY.

In fact, it can enhance it in an antiseptic, onl, looking at the numbers, no care about Epcot's original focus, kinda way.

Heck, if I had to make a choice as a Dad where best to stand 2 hours in line to meet the Princesses....? I'm picking the line within a stones throw of La Cava...

The thought had occurred when they made the announcement...

To use a ridiculous analogy..."on property sales"... The homeland security of wdw that is tasked with getting you to spend your last nickel (and borrow more) has long been pulling the strings about how to best trick everyone...

They are "herding cats"... It's difficult and their failure rate is surprisingly high (for alot of reasons)...but the roundup continues.

The frozen pavilion is something that is right up the alley of on property sales...Disney quicksand.

 

[clsteve]

The thought had occurred when they made the announcement...

To use a ridiculous analogy..."on property sales"... The homeland security of wdw that is tasked with getting you to spend your last nickel (and borrow more) has long been pulling the strings about how to best trick everyone...

They are "herding cats"... It's difficult and their failure rate is surprisingly high (for alot of reasons)...but the roundup continues.

The frozen pavilion is something that is right up the alley of on property sales...Disney quicksand.

A juggernaut, no doubt. And a very consistent one.

When you look at the revenue maturation of Epcot over the years -more and longer special events, bar and restaurant additions, food and alcohol kiosks, etc., along with the expense optimization (all of those things we site as stagnation - venue closures, food quality, etc) coupled with the net benefits of the expense and liability net gain by axing PI.... I'll bet the house They are so ahead of the game.

Emphasis on they, not the guest..

The more you slice, dice, and timeline it..... Pretty impressive with so many more benefits we could list.

Gotta tip the hat to them, they are the best at some things. Especially at knowing and managing their demographic

 

[Planogirl]

The fussing and clutching of pearls commentary during Food & Wine should be interesting if nothing else. You know, all of those awful drunks stumbling by the lines outside of Arendelle will once again cause complaints but likely even more of them.

 

[Suger Mag]

Turning EPCOT into a high cover drunk park...which I hadn't thought of as of yet... Is also very intriguing...
They have built add on bars/ restaurants for five years around the lagoon...if that continues - we got a trend, baby!

I am not a fan of most bars or clubs... nor a big drinker in general, but I love drinking at WDW (I never have to be the designated driver) and especially at Epcot. Drinking around the World

Will Epcot continue to be a party destination though? It doesn't seem to fit with Disney's desire to Princessify World Showcase.

I don't think it is a bad fit. People standing in line will buy booze and drinks while waiting. I think you will see more TOGO booze kiosks.

Heck, if I had to make a choice as a Dad where best to stand 2 hours in line to meet the Princesses....? I'm picking the line within a stones throw of La Cava...

Cannot say enough to this.

The fussing and clutching of pearls commentary during Food & Wine should be interesting if nothing else. You know, all of those awful drunks stumbling by the lines outside of Arendelle will once again cause complaints but likely even more of them.

Pearl clutchers will always find something to cluck about. I doubt they will get rid of booze, it is a serious money maker. And with MK being almost dry, they can go there.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Will Epcot continue to be a party destination though? It doesn't seem to fit with Disney's desire to Princessify World Showcase.

I don't drink and I don't enjoy WS especially during the festivals. Not that anyone is doing anything wrong, they're not, it's just not my thing. Or maybe when everyone else is drinking and you're not it's just a drag.

But then to put that Princess stuff right in there? What an odd juxtaposition for sure.

We've given up on Epcot since our last day there. When your kids can concisely verbalize that there is far too much walking for the number of rides there, it's time to give it a break

I admit though, the Frozen ride will bring me back at least once if only out of curiosity.

The whole Arendelle/WS thing is just lazy and cheap IMO.