New Monorail Fleet Ordered?

[tlmadden73]

Any word on Beam modification or expansion?

Here come the monorail expansion theories...

Whether they ordered new monorails or not, I think the huge investment in the Skyliner put the nail in the coffin of any Monorail expansion, but dreamers can dream!

(I never understood how the line could not have been somewhat "cheaply" extended to DHS considering just how close it is to Epcot, but I guess it would have sorta ruined the aesthetic around the Epcot resort area).

 

[SCSteve]

I hope this is true..

 

[umichigan10]

Does it matter? For all realistic purposes, both the story on WDWNT and RTeetz could be correct right now. They could be "ordered" from the point of view that the decision has been made while at the same time "not ordered" from the point of view that the contract is not signed. Or it could all be a rumor and WDWNT could have been snookered. Or RTeetz is being lied to or the source hasn't been told.

The WDWNT story makes sense, but that doesn't really mean anything. Similarly, "not ordered" as of now, doesn't mean not happening, even in the relatively short term.

It's a good rumor to discuss on the Rumors Board.

I was told they were still in negotiations so that means no deal is settled on. They are definitely talking to people. Just because it makes sense doesn't mean its true. Disney does things that make no sense all the time. I don't believe I am being lied to. If I felt I was I wouldn't be reporting such info.

I definitely trust Ryan’s sources (he’s always reliable on this board). I think this is a sooner rather than later thing, it’s just the matter of the stars aligning for both sides

 

[SL6827]

I wonder if Disney is regretting not letting Siemens pay for them now? Probably not, because they will just let the guest pay for them, (parking fees maybe?).

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I was told they were still in negotiations so that means no deal is settled on. They are definitely talking to people. Just because it makes sense doesn't mean its true. Disney does things that make no sense all the time. I don't believe I am being lied to. If I felt I was I wouldn't be reporting such info.

well, at the very least if they are "negotiating" then they are at least seriously considering it and perhaps then just a matter of time ... clearly they need new ones at some point

 

[rteetz]

I wonder if Disney is regretting not letting Siemens pay for them now? Probably not, because they will just let the guest pay for them, (parking fees maybe?).

Several reliable sources have said that was never an option.

 

[jknezek]

Here's an interesting question. If they do order new monorails, will they build completely new trains or simply build new coaches on top of the current, but refurbished, running gear. I kind of go both ways on this. Disneyland's Mark VII is actually the Mark V chassis, new coaches, with a Mark III modeled nose. They recycled the running gear from the Mark V which is why they took delivery of one train at a time.

Given that WDW's track is incompatible with common, modern, commercially available running gear, if it can be refurbished for another 20 years of work it might be considerably cheaper just to build new coaches and slap it on top of the current gear. It would also explain the desire to integrate the automation into the Mark VI as opposed to waiting on Mark VIIIs. On the other hand, the current chassis is old with many, many miles underneath it. I wonder if they actually can be salvaged to do another 20 years work. It's probably not cost effective if they can't.

 

[rteetz]

Here's an interesting question. If they do order new monorails, will they build completely new trains or simply build new coaches on top of the current, but refurbished, running gear. I kind of go both ways on this. Disneyland's Mark VII is actually the Mark V chassis, new coaches, with a Mark III modeled nose. They recycled the running gear from the Mark V which is why they took delivery of one train at a time.

Given that WDW's track is incompatible with common, modern, commercially available running gear, if it can be refurbished for another 20 years of work it might be considerably cheaper just to build new coaches and slap it on top of the current gear. It would also explain the desire to integrate the automation into the Mark VI as opposed to waiting on Mark VIIIs. On the other hand, the current chassis is old with many, many miles underneath it. I wonder if they actually can be salvaged to do another 20 years work. It's probably not cost effective if they can't.

They’d have to build all new trains. If they did what you suggest that would mean one train out of service at a time for the new body. These current trains from top to bottom are past their life span and need full replacement. Disneyland only has 3 monorails and is more of a novelty/ride unlike WDW where it is full fledged transportation.

 

[jknezek]

They’d have to build all new trains. If they did what you suggest that would mean one train out of service at a time for the new body. These current trains from top to bottom are past their life span and need full replacement. Disneyland only has 3 monorails and is more of a novelty/ride unlike WDW where it is full fledged transportation.

Yeah. I get all that. But the Mark VIIs were delivered about 4 months apart. We aren't talking about a refurb taking a year per train. 4 years seems like a long time (to do all 12), but if the rumor is correct, this issue wasn't really on the table as early as January or they wouldn't have had to cancel the MK Theater to find money in this calendar year. So, assuming the rumor is correct (and yes, a lot rides on that for this question), then they probably believed these trains still had at least a couple more calendar years of service remaining until the January spectacle. If you do the trains in order of maintenance issues, it might be possible. It's not like once the contract is signed 12 more trains are going to show up 2 day Prime. A custom running gear system to deliver 12 trains? You could be looking at 2-3 years anyway to get the full 12 trains.

Obviously they'd be short one train at a time, but if I remember my history right, it is rare for all 12 to run at the same time anyway. I don't know if it's possible or not. Certainly WDW has not done this in the past. The Mark IV and Mark VI were both new trains, but I am curious simply because there has to be some value in the running gear since it is not cheaply replaceable and the maintenance shed is already set up to service exactly that gear.

 

[Liljo22]

I think the odds are good that the monorails will be replaced in the next 5-10 years, so this article makes a lot of sense. It is only a rumor at this point, so I don't want to get too excited. Even so, Disney needs to do something if they want to keep the monorails operating at the resort much longer. This also is the best explanation that I've heard for the abrupt closure of the Main Street Theater, especially with the bad press for the open door recently.

I don't see the current trains lasting more than 3 years in their current condition.

 

[rteetz]

Yeah. I get all that. But the Mark VIIs were delivered about 4 months apart. We aren't talking about a refurb taking a year per train. 4 years seems like a long time (to do all 12), but if the rumor is correct, this issue wasn't really on the table as early as January or they wouldn't have had to cancel the MK Theater to find money in this calendar year. So, assuming the rumor is correct (and yes, a lot rides on that for this question), then they probably believed these trains still had at least a couple more calendar years of service remaining until the January spectacle. If you do the trains in order of maintenance issues, it might be possible. It's not like once the contract is signed 12 more trains are going to show up 2 day Prime. A custom running gear system to deliver 12 trains? You could be looking at 2-3 years anyway to get the full 12 trains.

Obviously they'd be short one train at a time, but if I remember my history right, it is rare for all 12 to run at the same time anyway. I don't know if it's possible or not. Certainly WDW has not done this in the past. The Mark IV and Mark VI were both new trains, but I am curious simply because there has to be some value in the running gear since it is not cheaply replaceable and the maintenance shed is already set up to service exactly that gear.

Of course we are looking at a multiple year build and test here. This isn’t something that can happen quickly and if they go with Bombardier they could see delays as that company isn’t quick.

Much of the replacement parts for the existing trains have had to be made by Disney because they can’t find them anymore due to the age of the trains.

I totally understand where you are coming from but this more or less has to be a complete new build.

Disney doesn’t even have 11 trains running at once usually. There are plenty of times where 2 maybe even 3 trains are out of service.

 

[rteetz]

I don't see the current trains lasting more than 3 years in their current condition.

They can last but we will continue to see issues like we are seeing now. They would not be reliable.

 

[SL6827]

Several reliable sources have said that was never an option.

Was it a false rumor, or was it true about Disney denying the Siemens logo?

 

[rteetz]

Was it a false rumor, or was it true about Disney denying the Siemens logo?

False rumor.

 

[kenshinelite]

Well one thing is always true with builds like this. The pyramid of cheap, fast, good applies here. Choose two and I think Disney will go the fast/good choice. Only because they kind of have to. They really don't have the time to wait 5-10 years and the push for the 50th plus the new attractions. You know they want thier best face on for everyone comming in for those things. A old outdated monorail being used to charge a premium on rooms isn't exactly a good look for new guests for the 50th.

 

[Farro]

Oh this is exciting!!!

 

[PaintsWithAllTheColors]

Well one thing is always true with builds like this. The pyramid of cheap, fast, good applies here. Choose two and I think Disney will go the fast/good choice. Only because they kind of have to. They really don't have the time to wait 5-10 years and the push for the 50th plus the new attractions. You know they want thier best face on for everyone comming in for those things. A old outdated monorail being used to charge a premium on rooms isn't exactly a good look for new guests for the 50th.

Totally agree. I’m looking at the ticking clock and thinking that if they're serious, it’s now or never.

 

[Joben]

Ok its from someone that works in transportation.

Wait a minute did you talk to a bus driver????

 

[rteetz]

Wait a minute did you talk to a bus driver????

Who else would I talk to

 

[Teamubr]

Looks like no monorails have been ordered from any manufacturer yet.

I was told they were still in negotiations so that means no deal is settled on.

Both of Ryan's comments likely sum up where this is. They are still in negotiations, therefore there isn't an order... yet.

Hopefully WDWNT has a source that indicate negotiations are very close to a deal.

We all can hope.

j