NEW GREAT SWAP/SMILEY DEBATE(former "Pop Will .... Fridges For Swap?" thread)

[aribelle]

THANK YOU!THANK YOU! THANK YOU! For seeing the reason for this post. I never meant for it to become a debate about the validity of swaps-simply trying to regroup if needed, so that people who are depending on and have contributed to this don't get left out in the cold.

Thanks again

Interesting question....just what DO the swap leaders intend to do if the management decides to "poof" and make all the fridges disappear. I'm assuming that as leader you're the one that has collected people's money ....will those people be getting a refund or are they out their money and their planned fridge? I often wonder how that worked for all these lost fridges. If it were me, I think I'd be requesting my money back since you weren't able to fulfill your obligation. Or what if it's not a matter of "poof" but management saying after October 1 no more fridges in storage....what happens to the people who are arriving October 2? Will they get a refund? I sure hope so, because it was not their fault that you sold them services that are no longer available.

I always thought it amazing that Disney allowed this...yeah, the first few swaps they may not have realized what was going on, but there are a couple dozen swaps on this board alone, and there are other swaps on other boards I frequent....there must be 50+ fridges in every resort. WAYYYY before this Disney should have said no....we rent them and make money so while we may not stop people bringing in their own cooler and using the ice to keep things cold, we're not going to be a storage facility for something that takes away money from our coffers. That would kinda be like me buying Mickey Ears at the discount store and asking Disney to store them while I sell them in the parking lot!

BUT....that said, the fact is that Disney has allowed this for a long long time, at least two years I've been seeing these, though the numbers are much greater now....so I don't think it would be right of Disney to just suddenly poof and have an empty storeroom. BUT....I could see DIsney starting to put their own little notice on the fridges that come X date they won't be stored. I can imagine that the "poof" method would only enrage those involved in the swap (and for the reasons I just said, I think they have a right to be pretty upset if Disney doesn't give any notice so you can collect your things)...and Disney is NOT in the habit of enraging it's guests. Besides, there may be a legal question here....does Disney have hte right to dispose of a guests property without notice?

 

[aribelle]

Hotel options

1. Marriott Courtyard Lake Buena Vista. Two room suite with kitchette... $89 a night
2. Disney value $99.

Yep, or how about another choice.....a 2 bedroom, 1300+ square foot condo for around $60 a night??

I've long been on record as not understanding the hype of staying onsite....we stay twice as long instead...and because we have all that extra space we still are a happy family when we leave. If I had to be in 350sq feet with ANYONE for a week I wouldn't be much on the happy side. And remember I spend 24/7/365 with my kids because I homeschool....so it's not "gotta get away from the kids" issue. It's I need "me" time that the bathroom doesn't provide sufficiently, lol.

 

[bavaria]

does Disney have hte right to dispose of a guests property without notice?

I live in hotels about 300 days/year, as do many very frequent travellers. Some people come back to the same hotel over and over and over again, and thus store their luggage or golf clubs or other items in the bell storage area every weekend. Generally however they work out an agreement with the hotel in advance, which covers liability should something happen. I know someone who kept their golf clubs stored for over 3 years at a hotel, retrieving them regularly, but there was an agreement in place about what would happen if the clubs went missing, or there was a fire, or the hotel changed ownership, etc.

In fact, the owner of www.ownerslocker.com (which I suggested earlier in this thread as an alternative) actually used to do that in Europe, and it was the brainchild of his business because he had such a need himself.

What I do foresee happening if Disney did decide not to store items, is that they would advise that 'owners' had X number of days to retrieve the item; after that date it would be sent to Lost and Found, and the owner would have Y number of days to claim it before it was disposed of. (L&F items are not kept indefinitely by hotels)

That would give the 'owner' sufficient time to retrieve the item, or to arrange for its shipment back to the owner's home, at their cost. The problem here however is that they may have no way to contact the 'owner' other than as you suggested; by leaving a note on the item.

 

[ConnieB]

Just an idea...
We could start a co-op for the fridges...
When you sign up for a fridge swap you agree
that you may have to hold another fridge for a day or two.
We could help each other out and serve a go betweens
for each others swaps...
Or atleast ask swappers if they would be willing to help out...
The only problem would be in the slow times if no one has swappers.
In our swap we work very hard to find swappers to fill gaps.
Maybe we could send the Fridge as a package to the next swapper...
Will they still hold those for two weeks...

Of Course the Ultimate Solution would be for POP to put Fridges in all the rooms
or atleast lower the Fee.

Isn't there a service where they pick up your stuff and keep it until your next visit months from now? Or is that just for the DVC folks? It's sometimes advertised here on the DIS??

Maybe what you need to do is find someone who lives very near to DIsney who has an empty garage, a pick up and wants to make a few bucks. Pay him the $5 each way to transport these things back and forth...if there are 20 swaps going it seems like an hour or so work and you could make $100. Not sure if it would work logistically since people arrive at various times, but maybe the delivery could be "you want your fridge be at the parking lot at 5pm" or something.

 

[bavaria]

Isn't there a service where they pick up your stuff and keep it until your next visit months from now? Or is that just for the DVC folks? It's sometimes advertised here on the DIS??

www.ownerslocker.com - I've suggested it a few times. It is a lifesaver for me and as I have said, excellent service!

JDVM the owner is a member here, and yes, you are correct that they offer specials for readers. It is not just for DVC owners, and not just for onsite guests.

 

[CarolA]

Yep, or how about another choice.....a 2 bedroom, 1300+ square foot condo for around $60 a night??

Sounds good, but most condo owners don't really want to do a 2 or 3 night rental (can't blame them, it's a hassle to clean up etc for that short stay revenue!)

 

[englishrose47]

I 'veread enough negative comments!! but am glad that Pop has given us swappers the go ahead. Whoever made th comment that it frees up fridges for those who need them medically is an excellent one !Without the swaps Pop could well not have one available and pardon me if someone also made this comment doesn't Pop have to store there fridges . Maybe all swap fridges could be stored with them!! Just a thought!! When threadset nasty Mods close them soooo please let's keep this friendly. I would defend anybodies right to there oppinion whether it is the same as mine or not please give me the same courteousy!!

 

[thelionqueen]

I really hope the MOD's dont close this thread it is very interesting. Although there are many differing opinions, I think all the replies are well thought out and engaging.

I just have to reply to a PP re: Disney offering a service that they don't make money on

I'm going to be as diplomatic and polite as I possibly can here. Disney makes money on everything they do, period! They charge quite a large sum of money for absolutely everything they do, have and sell. I would never dream of "stealing" or trying to manipulate anyone or any company for that matter for the sake of a few dollars.

Disney can charge what they do because people expect ONE thing above and beyond any other company, and that is GUEST SERVICE! Disney holds itself to that standard and so do their guests.

Holding someone's belongings, personal, luggage or otherwise is a service they provide that is included in every other cost they charge involved with staying at a Disney resort.

Just do what you want, think what you want, and let everyone do what works best for them. Disney is ok with it, at least for now, and that's good enough for me!

 

[kath1210]

Thanks LISADR for calling and sharing this with us!!

 

[kath1210]

Interesting question....just what DO the swap leaders intend to do if the management decides to "poof" and make all the fridges disappear. I'm assuming that as leader you're the one that has collected people's money ....will those people be getting a refund or are they out their money and their planned fridge? I often wonder how that worked for all these lost fridges. If it were me, I think I'd be requesting my money back since you weren't able to fulfill your obligation. Or what if it's not a matter of "poof" but management saying after October 1 no more fridges in storage....what happens to the people who are arriving October 2? Will they get a refund? I sure hope so, because it was not their fault that you sold them services that are no longer available.

First, most fridge swaps do not charge anything at all, once enough people have contributed enough to buy the fridge, or a replacement fridge. Second, nothing is "sold" to anyone. Third, I believe that all of the fridge swaps include the following disclaimer, or something like it:


In any kind of online swap, you're putting your trust in a person you really don't know, and there's always the possibility that you'll end up disappointed. I will not be held responsible if someone "does you wrong" or even if unforeseen circumstances prevent an honest person from keeping his or her end of the deal. You may want to get a cell phone number of the person who is supposed to leave ithe fridge for you in case the item gets lost or mismarked. If you take the fridge to storage, always get the claim number from the person before you this will help locate the fridge.

 

[aribelle]

First, most fridge swaps do not charge anything at all, once enough people have contributed enough to buy the fridge, or a replacement fridge. Second, nothing is "sold" to anyone. Third, I believe that all of the fridge swaps include the following disclaimer, or something like it:


In any kind of online swap, you're putting your trust in a person you really don't know, and there's always the possibility that you'll end up disappointed. I will not be held responsible if someone "does you wrong" or even if unforeseen circumstances prevent an honest person from keeping his or her end of the deal. You may want to get a cell phone number of the person who is supposed to leave ithe fridge for you in case the item gets lost or mismarked. If you take the fridge to storage, always get the claim number from the person before you this will help locate the fridge.

Well....OPs swap which is linked in her signature does charge....and does not have your language. And since she's already taken money she can't really change the rules without permission or agreement from those she's already charged. So my curiosity still stands, what does SHE as leader plan to do if the CM she spoke with is wrong and the swaps do stop. Since another person stated that a manager said they will stop, we're back to the "she said he said" that is so common of CMs. Since she's gotten the CM that told her what she wants to hear is she done pursuing the issue. Just curious.

 

[CarolA]

Disney can charge what they do because people expect ONE thing above and beyond any other company, and that is GUEST SERVICE! Disney holds itself to that standard and so do their guests.

Holding someone's belongings, personal, luggage or otherwise is a service they provide that is included in every other cost they charge involved with staying at a Disney resort.

Just do what you want, think what you want, and let everyone do what works best for them. Disney is ok with it, at least for now, and that's good enough for me!

While we are REALLY off topic now....

Sadly while I agree Disney is WORLD class in Theme Parks... One of the reasons the Disney "Deluxe" hotels get three star ratings, sub par "GUEST SERVICE" when compared to other resorts charging the same prices etc. Disneys hotel service is not at all "above" others.

Most hotels hold luggage, deliver packages etc. These are BASICS not "above and beyond"

Disney actually holds itself to a lower standard in hotel management then most of the major hotel chains. It comes up consistently here. For the same price as the Fairfield Inns in the Marriott Village you can stay at the Values. A comparison of services


Internet Disney- Charge Fairfield - Free
Breakfast Disney - Charge Fairfield - Free
Selection of TV networks Disney- Very limited Fairfield -often the entire cable network
Pay per view movies Disney - No Fairfield -Yes
Refrigerator Disney- Charge Fairfield - Free
Microwave in room Disney - NA Fairfield-Free
Exterior coorridors Disney- Yes Fairfield - No
Hairdryer automatically in room Disney - No Fairfield- Yes
Reward program for staying often Disney -No Fairfield - Yes (And there is a theory on the resorts board that Disney actually "penalizes" frequent guest by NOT sending them PINS etc...)

Transport to Disney from local Fairfield Free. Transport to parks from Values Free (Granted Disney's is probably better)

Transport to hotel from airport Disney - Free Fairfield No use Mears.

Themeing Disney wins. NO contest

Service...stayed at both. Both have good basic service. Check in is generally faster at the Fairfield!

So with Disney you are paying for location and "theme" NOT for an outstanding hotel.

And the differences become MORE pronounced the higher up the Disney price points you go.

Will I stay at values... sure, but I go in with my eyes wide open. I do not believe that "just because it's Disney it's better" I travel a lot and sadly I believe it's the exact opposite. Once you get past theme, things are lacking!

Now, I don't really blame Disney. The hotels are FULL, why should they upgrade? Others do it to bring in customers. Disney has all the customers it seems to need.

 

[aka-mad4themouse]

I really hope the MOD's dont close this thread it is very interesting. Although there are many differing opinions, I think all the replies are well thought out and engaging.

As long as the discussion remains civil, there's no reason to discontinue it. Y'all have been very cordial in presenting your POVs.

 

[msmayor]

I think the one thing that distinguishes leaving a fridge in storage versus having items other than luggage in storage (water/grocery deliveries, other packages shipped by guests) is that with these other things there is generally a clear and definite way to establish your ownership of the items.

A receipt from UPS with tracking information to demonstrate that a box of items was delivered to Pop handed to a CM by its owner proves that the item was indeed delivered and needs to be found. It would seem that with the fridges, there is no such proof. While I know some have been able to have receipts provided to them, it doesn't appear that the "new" or "next" swapper has the physical receipt in their hands when they go to collect the fridge; only the numbers or basic information on the receipt. That's just not enough information to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that the fridge was in fact handed in, and actually belongs to the person now standing before the CM waiting to collect it.

When the organizer is then contacted about the now-missing fridge, he or she isn't physically present at luggage services to help clear up the problem. The physical condition of the box it is in may not be fully known..."Well, it had stickers like this and that and had large orange letters" is a good description, but what if the previous swapper changed the box in any way, or the box got destroyed and is now gone? Much like the kids' game of "Telephone", the longer the line of folks who need to pass on information the more chance it morphs into something completely different than when it started.

Please don't take this as a knock on the swaps...its just inherently a difficult thing to manage long-distance without help.

Someone mentioned the Owner's Locker. That may be a much better way to manage the movement and storage of the swaps. If the fridge can be swapped face-to-face, then great. Otherwise, make some arrangement with Owner's Locker to pick up and store the fridge and then return it when the next swapper needs it. Will it end up costing more? Yes...but it will probably still be cheaper in the long run than renting a fridge daily from Disney. It would be up to each swap to decide how that extra cost would need to be handled.

 

[cocowum]

exactly parkers*momma. I don't get why people want to come in with negativity on a thread when someone is trying to find a solution to a problem. Yes, it is a public message board, but why come upset everyone if you don't even have anything to do with the issue?

Honestly, sometimes I feel the only reason people log in is to spread negativity. Like you mom used to say "If you can't say something nice....." It seems all some people are interested in is scolding for something they deem wrong.*sigh*

I completely agree with this!

Some posters just constantly spew negativity! How miserable are you, that you feel the need to stir the pot on a Disney chat board?

Anyway, we just participated in our 1st fridge swap. We did a face to face swap upon arrival but had to use luggage services and leave it for the next swapper. I called luggage services and she wasn't happy. but the young man who came to pick it up was very pleasant. He gave me a claim ticket and I gave him a nice tip. The next swapper had no problem picking it up. This was on 9/2. Just thought I'd share our recent experience. :

 

[lisadr]

I completely agree with this!

Some posters just constantly spew negativity! How miserable are you, that you feel the need to stir the pot on a Disney chat board?

Anyway, we just participated in our 1st fridge swap. We did a face to face swap upon arrival but had to use luggage services and leave it for the next swapper. I called luggage services and she wasn't happy. but the young man who came to pick it up was very pleasant. He gave me a claim ticket and I gave him a nice tip. The next swapper had no problem picking it up. This was on 9/2. Just thought I'd share our recent experience. :

Thank you for letting me now how you experience with the swap went. I think that taking care of the CMs goes a long way keeping us in the good graces of Pop

 

[bavaria]

As long as the discussion remains civil, there's no reason to discontinue it. Y'all have been very cordial in presenting your POVs.

Thank you - believe it or not, some of us are truly interested in this subject. Hopefully Carol and I can also give some 'front line' insight based on our lives in hotels

Some posters just constantly spew negativity! How miserable are you, that you feel the need to stir the pot on a Disney chat board?

Is the name calling really necessary when we were having a reasoned discussion? So some of us have different opinions, or can share some insight on this subject. How does that make us miserable? I'm not emotionally involved in this subject, hence I cannot be miserable.

Nor does sharing factual information mean that I am 'spewing negativity'.

Just because people have differing opinions does not make us wrong. I think that I have been respectful of the varying opinions over the years, and would hope that I can continue to share my own opinion, even when it may differ from some.

 

[lisadr]

To EVERYONE:

I just wanted to say that when I started this thread, I was honestly just looking for some info. I had an idea that if I opened it to peoples opinions on swaps, it would turn into a debate-and it has-to put it mildly.

If in my post requesting others to not post if they were simply posting opinions as to the validity/correctness of swaps, I offended you I am sorry. It's not that I was trying to control the thread because I don't want people to voice their opinions, I simply wanted to make it a nice simple thread where swappers could brainstorm and discuss ways to better manage the swaps. But instead a person has to sift through tons of irrelevant (to the thread) opinions. Not that you are not entitled to your opinion-it's just wasted here. Swappers don't care if you like them or not, if you think they are right, etc. Again-not being rude-just saying.

I do though believe that as it was posted, the old debate thread should be brought back, because some people really live for a good fight. WHY else would you come onto a swap thread and post anti-swap posts?Why else try and goad swappers into a fight? And you can say you are not doing it-but we all know you are. But in reading some of the PPs other posts on other threads, it just seems to be your nature

Yes it is a public form. But I am in a public place having a conversation with someone and you walk up and butt in, with nothing useful to add to the original conversation-YES you do have the right to do that-it is a free country-but it is also bad manners. And maybe that is the issue-not whether it is your right, but whether is it the right thing to do.

I was almost going to ask a MOD to close this post, but apparently some people really need this thread-so have at it.


Let the flamin' begin-lol

 

[TIGGER'SFRIEND]

Well....OPs swap which is linked in her signature does charge....and does not have your language. And since she's already taken money she can't really change the rules without permission or agreement from those she's already charged. So my curiosity still stands, what does SHE as leader plan to do if the CM she spoke with is wrong and the swaps do stop. Since another person stated that a manager said they will stop, we're back to the "she said he said" that is so common of CMs. Since she's gotten the CM that told her what she wants to hear is she done pursuing the issue. Just curious.

As an original member of OP's swap I would not expect her to return anything to me if the swap was ended--that's the chance you take--

 

[maxiesmom]

To EVERYONE:

I just wanted to say that when I started this thread, I was honestly just looking for some info. I had an idea that if I opened it to peoples opinions on swaps, it would turn into a debate-and it has-to put it mildly.

If in my post requesting others to not post if they were simply posting opinions as to the validity/correctness of swaps, I offended you I am sorry. It's not that I was trying to control the thread because I don't want people to voice their opinions, I simply wanted to make it a nice simple thread where swappers could brainstorm and discuss ways to better manage the swaps. But instead a person has to sift through tons of irrelevant (to the thread) opinions. Not that you are not entitled to your opinion-it's just wasted here. Swappers don't care if you like them or not, if you think they are right, etc. Again-not being rude-just saying.

I do though believe that as it was posted, the old debate thread should be brought back, because some people really live for a good fight. WHY else would you come onto a swap thread and post anti-swap posts?Why else try and goad swappers into a fight? And you can say you are not doing it-but we all know you are. But in reading some of the PPs other posts on other threads, it just seems to be your nature

Yes it is a public form. But I am in a public place having a conversation with someone and you walk up and butt in, with nothing useful to add to the original conversation-YES you do have the right to do that-it is a free country-but it is also bad manners. And maybe that is the issue-not whether it is your right, but whether is it the right thing to do.

I was almost going to ask a MOD to close this post, but apparently some people really need this thread-so have at it.


Let the flamin' begin-lol

Well, I don't think this post is an example of good manners, either.

When you post on a public forum, there is no "butting in". It is out there for everyone to see, and to comment on. And as your original post was on how the Pop may be not allowing fridge swaps, some of us wanted to point out the reasons why they might feel the need to do so. So it was all relevent.