New credit card guarantees. Restaurant list, policy & common questions in 1st post

[Marshay]

Exactly. Most people won't admit to it but many, many people do this every day - they go to work sick because they don't have paid time off to take, they send their kids to school sick they can't/don't want to pay for (or simply don't have) alternative child care, etc. Certainly this is an angle Disney is aware of and still they chose to design a policy that "will have teeth", no exceptions, knowing full well that it will encourage people to keep those reservations no matter what. The bottom line is more important than guest comfort, both the guests who are sick and would rather be resting and those who will be exposed to whatever germs the sick guests brought along to dinner.

And this isn't anything new at Disney restaurants either ... You said it! We went the last two Novembers and there were people coughing and sneezing all around us at our meal, in the parks, on the busses/train/plane, etc.

Now, we'll just have *more* of the sick ones at meals who don't like to waste their money...and I don't blame them. If I'm not be sick enough to warrant a doctor and possibly get waived by Disney, then I'm still going to my ADR if I choose to make them. Luckily for me, I won't have to experience this new policy until 2013, so I'll be actively watching the boards.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

What's more disturbing than the lack of flexibility in this new policy is the number of people who have indicated they will go to their ADR knowing full well they have a contagious illness just to avoid paying a penalty. And those same people will say 'well, Disney's policy sucks and I was basically forced to go or pay a cancellation fee'. Yikes! Is there no common sense out there anymore?! I wouldn't be happy having to pay a cancellation fee if one of us got sick, but I sure wouldn't take an ill family member to a crowded restaurant (especially a buffet) and expose everyone else to the illness. Why ruin someone else's family vacation?

I wouldn't do that either. Then again, I think buffets are germ fests anyway, so we don't eat at many. We do character breakfasts on occasion, but we book those for when the restaurant opens. My point is anyone who would take a sick kid or go sick themselves to a buffet would do it, if there's a fee attached or not. The fee will just give them a better excuse to do that. There's no reason a sick child should need to touch anything at a buffet. That's what parents are for. Sadly, many people don't seem to want to parent their kids & stop them from playing in food, dropping or licking serving spoons, etc. They don't seem too worried about other people getting sick, which is why we limit buffets to a minimum. People who don't care about others aren't going to change fee or no fee. The same can be said for those who do. I too think the right thing to do would be to pay the fee, but that is me. People who book ADRs & feel no real obligation to show up, aren't considering other guests either. Why would they consider them under other circumstances?

I guess the point I am trying to make is that not everyone who has a chronic issue is going to know when they will have difficulties, some may have it maintained in normal everyday life and then have something flare up when climate and other conditions change. It would be a shame that a family who travels with someone like this has to either limit their ADRs or be charged if something related to the vacation itself arrgravates a health issue.

I'd be very surprised if those with chronic issues didn't have some idea of what triggered them. I know exactly what times of year I will feel best/worst. I also know that over-doing it will result in me being in the bed all day the next day. I know how many hours I can depend on my body to go. That is how many hours I have to work with in a day. I have to plan those wisely on vacation. Someone who didn't realize they were sick at all, wouldn't know that. Most people would have to have some idea something was wrong though. Most chronic illnesses don't pop up overnight. Fortunately, from the way it sounds, if a person is totally blindsided by a previously unknown illness, they will be able to sit it out & the rest of the family can dine w/o paying a fee.

 

[NLD]

To me, this isn't just about hoarders. It's about everyone who blows off an ADR. I think it hits the target dead on. People just don't want to admit they're part of the problem & are being targeted.

I'm with cafeen.

If there are large numbers of people who blow off ADRs due to things you deem to be invalid "excuses" (like exhaustion, kids cranky, not hungry, decided on a different park), then what that tells me is Disney's ADR / dining system doesn't work.

We have the same facts, but you come to the conclusion that the guests are in the wrong. I come to the conclusion that Disney's dining system is in the wrong.

So we'll probably never agree. But I'll state one more time why I think I'm right, and that's this:

Disney is a hospitality industry. The point of a hospitality industry is to give customers an experience they want in exchange for getting their money.

If LARGE numbers of people are behaving a certain way, the hospitatality-oriented response is to say "Okay this is how people behave, so what can we do to give them an experience that fits with their desires and behavior that they will pay us for?"

I guess it depends on how you view your customers. Do you view them as a problem to be managed, or do you view them as people whose behavior you'd like some insight into for the purpose of providing them an experience they're willing to pay for?

Having worked in customer-oriented positions and human services for years, I see them as the latter.

 

[mom2rtk]

Agreed - sort of. And the main reason why is, that the new policy does not take away someone's flexibility. That "flexibility" is gone the moment you decide to make your ADRs. But that just illustrates why Disney had to do something. Clearly, far too many people felt that there was zero obligation on their part to show up for their ADRs. Too many people had the attitude of "If all goes right, we'll make that ADR. Otherwise, we'll just blow it off - it's no big deal."

Just because Disney had to do SOMETHING does not mean it had to be THIS. I grow weary of people saying that a given solution to a problem must be done because they had to do SOMETHING.

If you looked back through my 10K+ posts, you will find some that say they need to institute a CC hold on more ADR's to address this problem. But I NEVER suggested a 24 PLUS cancellation policy when a 3 (or even 6) hour policy would fill the vast majority of those ADRS. It would get the job done without punishing everybody.

All the way through gradeschool, my kids complained when the entire class lost recess time because a few kids were misbehaving. This is just too much like that.

Oh....... and BTW............ parents who like to take pictures of their kids kissing Mickey's nose at Chef Mickey????????? I'd put a stop to that right away. Too much exposure.

 

[mom2rtk]

I'm with cafeen.

If there are large numbers of people who blow off ADRs due to things you deem to be invalid "excuses" (like exhaustion, kids cranky, not hungry, decided on a different park), then what that tells me is Disney's ADR / dining system doesn't work.

We have the same facts, but you come to the conclusion that the guests are in the wrong. I come to the conclusion that Disney's dining system is in the wrong.

So we'll probably never agree. But I'll state one more time why I think I'm right, and that's this:

Disney is a hospitality industry. The point of a hospitality industry is to give customers an experience they want in exchange for getting their money.

If LARGE numbers of people are behaving a certain way, the hospitatality-oriented response is to say "Okay this is how people behave, so what can we do to give them an experience that fits with their desires and behavior that they will pay us for?"

I guess it depends on how you view your customers. Do you view them as a problem to be managed, or do you view them as people whose behavior you'd like some insight into for the purpose of providing them an experience they're willing to pay for?Having worked in customer-oriented positions and human services for years, I see them as the latter.

VERY well put.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Exactly. Most people won't admit to it but many, many people do this every day - they go to work sick because they don't have paid time off to take, they send their kids to school sick they can't/don't want to pay for (or simply don't have) alternative child care, etc. Certainly this is an angle Disney is aware of and still they chose to design a policy that "will have teeth", no exceptions, knowing full well that it will encourage people to keep those reservations no matter what. The bottom line is more important than guest comfort, both the guests who are sick and would rather be resting and those who will be exposed to whatever germs the sick guests brought along to dinner.

As you said, people will go to work or send kids to school sick or not. I've seen sick kids in school that have SAHMs. Disney probably realizes, if people really wanted to keep their ADR, they'd go sick or not. Being sick is just a good excuse for them to not go, if they decide they don't want to for whatever reason.

And this isn't anything new at Disney restaurants either ... You said it! We went the last two Novembers and there were people coughing and sneezing all around us at our meal, in the parks, on the busses/train/plane, etc.

Now, we'll just have *more* of the sick ones at meals who don't like to waste their money...and I don't blame them. If I'm not be sick enough to warrant a doctor and possibly get waived by Disney, then I'm still going to my ADR if I choose to make them. Luckily for me, I won't have to experience this new policy until 2013, so I'll be actively watching the boards.

As I said before, I doubt the fee will make that much of a difference in people's behavior. Those who would have gone to the meal sick before still will. Those who wouldn't may consider the fee money well spent. Human nature doesn't change that much, whether money is involved or not. Do you really think most people will pay the money to go to WDW, & spend the week in their room? They'll go to the parks sick or not. You could get sick from them in the parks, just as easily as in a restaurant. If a person is truly too sick to leave the room at all, they should consider that a valid reason to miss the ADR. Whether or not they think it's a valid reason for the entire family to not go, I have no idea. We'd pay the fee rather than split up. I don't know what WDW thinks about it though.

 

[Mkrop]

I'd be very surprised if those with chronic issues didn't have some idea of what triggered them. I know exactly what times of year I will feel best/worst. I also know that over-doing it will result in me being in the bed all day the next day. I know how many hours I can depend on my body to go. That is how many hours I have to work with in a day. I have to plan those wisely on vacation. Someone who didn't realize they were sick at all, wouldn't know that. Most people would have to have some idea something was wrong though. Most chronic illnesses don't pop up overnight. Fortunately, from the way it sounds, if a person is totally blindsided by a previously unknown illness, they will be able to sit it out & the rest of the family can dine w/o paying a fee.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Bc as someone who has kids with asthma, I know most of their triggers but I dont know all of them esp when I travel. DS8 is allergic to trees and some days he is fine outside and others he is a mess, and the weather reports on pollen are not always accurate. We spend a lot of time tweaking things for him, but if his eyes blow up like ballons, bc the pollen is extremely bad, I dont think I should be dragging him to see Mickey or having others worry that he has pink eye nor should I be charged.

Or like the example I gave before of the wildfires in GA (not in FL but in GA) that were causing lots of people to have aggravated asthma symptoms.

When we have traveled, (to other places as well as WDW) we have had to make adjustments based on conditions that 90% of the time we have under control. It is just the nature of what we deal with. But I have no intention of making my kids sit through anything if they dont feel well. And once again we do not go to meals unless we are all together, esp a character meal. I can tell you right now that DS14 and DH dont want to go to a character meal when it is for DS8 that I most likely made the meal for. We would eat in our room together...and then maybe sign out a board game from DVC and chill. Or maybe two of them would go ride rides after DS8 fell asleep but they would not want to eat a big meal without us. Now if one of us were contagious I might scoot the others out of the room for awhile but not if it was just allergies or asthma, for that we stay together as a family.

 

[Lewisc]

ConnieB made a good point earlier. If someone is unable to use their park ticket all day, they will be able to make a better case to not be charged, due to illness.

Unless that family was at Legoland, Universal, KSC etc. Unless the child got sick at the park and went back to their resort.

As I've said, I know all about chronic health problems. I'm truly sorry your mom has to deal with them too. I've found planning for the ADRs & fitting in what I was able to do other than that is what works for us. Sometimes, those of us with chronic health issues have to set priorities. I know it's not fun. I live it, but that's the way it is.

The extra walking, heat and different sleep schedule can have an impact on chronic conditions.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that not everyone who has a chronic issue is going to know when they will have difficulties, some may have it maintained in normal everyday life and then have something flare up when climate and other conditions change. It would be a shame that a family who travels with someone like this has to either limit their ADRs or be charged if something related to the vacation itself arrgravates a health issue.

+1

I'm with cafeen.

If there are large numbers of people who blow off ADRs due to things you deem to be invalid "excuses" (like exhaustion, kids cranky, not hungry, decided on a different park), then what that tells me is Disney's ADR / dining system doesn't work.

We have the same facts, but you come to the conclusion that the guests are in the wrong. I come to the conclusion that Disney's dining system is in the wrong.

So we'll probably never agree. But I'll state one more time why I think I'm right, and that's this:

Disney is a hospitality industry. The point of a hospitality industry is to give customers an experience they want in exchange for getting their money.

If LARGE numbers of people are behaving a certain way, the hospitatality-oriented response is to say "Okay this is how people behave, so what can we do to give them an experience that fits with their desires and behavior that they will pay us for?"

I guess it depends on how you view your customers. Do you view them as a problem to be managed, or do you view them as people whose behavior you'd like some insight into for the purpose of providing them an experience they're willing to pay for?

Having worked in customer-oriented positions and human services for years, I see them as the latter.

Some people thinks Disney corporate looks at theme park customers as a sort of ATM machine. Disney now has a new method of extracting cash from customers.

 

[mcd2745]

Just because Disney had to do SOMETHING does not mean it had to be THIS. I grow weary of people saying that a given solution to a problem must be done because they had to do SOMETHING.

If you looked back through my 10K+ posts, you will find some that say they need to institute a CC hold on more ADR's to address this problem. But I NEVER suggested a 24 PLUS cancellation policy when a 3 (or even 6) hour policy would fill the vast majority of those ADRS. It would get the job done without punishing everybody.

This doesn't punish everybody - only those who make ADRs and blow them off. Is this new policy the absolute, best solution to the problem? No - and I've already acknowledged that. But it's better than than keeping the status quo. I grow weary of people thinking that the only solution to a problem is the one that suits them best.

 

[NLD]

Interesting tidbit (well maybe only interesting to me):

I am writing this post from the Caribe Royale in Orlando. I am here for a work conference. The conference is about transforming the mental health system. Why? Because the mental health system needs transforming because for too long it's treated the people it serves like a problem to be managed.

Meanwhile... I did go to Disney while here. At the very last minute, I bought a ticket to Thursday's Halloween party, at the gates, at about 5:00 p.m.

At one point prior to this conference, I had a room being held at Pop Century for the night before the conference (with the plan to go to the Halloween party then) plus a couple ADRs in place. In other words, Disney almost got $$ for TS plus a room PLUS the party ticket out of my wallet.

But the more I thought about it, the more pointless it seemed. The more of a hassle it seemed! So instead I decided to take my chances on whether a party would still have tickets available day-of, stay at the Caribe rather than Pop, and forego any TS dining at Disney.

Why? Because it's enough that in my daily life (read: work) I'm constantly fighting a system and trying to make it work for the people it's supposed to serve. All of a sudden, trying to navigate the intracacies of Disney's "system" to have a break from my work conference didn't seem like such of a break! It seemed like more work!

So there you go. A very real example of how the more complicated Disney makes things, the more regimented they get, the more scheduled it feels, and the more I feel them viewing me as a problem (rather than a person).... the more I resist.

And as I resist, I go to a more and more "on the fly" style. And the more I do this, the LESS money they get from me. It's not premeditated but it just works out that way.

By the way: two thumbs up for the Caribe if anyone's looking for off-site accommodations. It's actually got me considering cancelling WL for January, getting a car, and spending some time in Sea World and maybe Universal and the beach, and perhaps eating off-site too. Would result in more room space, flexibility in dining, the chance to do SW and the beach, and.... even with extra (non-Disney) tickets and the car, should still cost less than or at least break even with WL (with a 35% discount).

(If you read this far, God bless you. Here, have a popcorn: )

P.S. The pool at Caribe Royale is pretty darn nice.

 

[mom2rtk]

This doesn't punish everybody - only those who make ADRs and blow them off. Is this new policy the absolute, best solution to the problem? No - and I've already acknowledged that. But it's better than than keeping the status quo. I grow weary of people thinking that the only solution to a problem is the one that suits them best.

I'm sorry but I don't view someone who makes 10 ADR's over a 10 day trip and misses one because someone got sick the same way as I do someone who books 3 for each meal every day to cover all options then blows off the extra. I know you find them to be equivilant, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

Honestly, we make the ADR's we expect to keep and we keep them, so please don't assume anything to the contrary. Even though I intend to keep them all, it IS punishing me to add an extra potential financial exposure to me if someone DOES happen to get sick on our trip (in addition to lost park time and lost dining credits).

Contrary to what you think about anyone opposed to this, I'm actually more concerned for families with dealing with chronic illnesses (thankfully we are not), or for those with small kids (which we are beyond) who seem to be more prone to picking up illnesses along the way.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I'm with cafeen.

If there are large numbers of people who blow off ADRs due to things you deem to be invalid "excuses" (like exhaustion, kids cranky, not hungry, decided on a different park), then what that tells me is Disney's ADR / dining system doesn't work.

We have the same facts, but you come to the conclusion that the guests are in the wrong. I come to the conclusion that Disney's dining system is in the wrong.

So we'll probably never agree. But I'll state one more time why I think I'm right, and that's this:

Disney is a hospitality industry. The point of a hospitality industry is to give customers an experience they want in exchange for getting their money.

If LARGE numbers of people are behaving a certain way, the hospitatality-oriented response is to say "Okay this is how people behave, so what can we do to give them an experience that fits with their desires and behavior that they will pay us for?"

I guess it depends on how you view your customers. Do you view them as a problem to be managed, or do you view them as people whose behavior you'd like some insight into for the purpose of providing them an experience they're willing to pay for?

Having worked in customer-oriented positions and human services for years, I see them as the latter.

It doesn't work, because too many people make ADRs they feel no real obligation to keep. They're attempting to correct that problem now. It amazes that people will admit they have canceled last minute or didn't show up for a variety of reasons, then blame Disney for the ADR system not working. Who is really to blame? Sometimes, a business has to do what's best for the majority & best for the business. Allowing guests to book up their ADRs, then not show up with no repercussions is probably not what they think is best for most of their guests & their business. Anyone who runs a business would rather have customers that are dependable than customers that leave them holding the bag. Who could blame them for wanting the ADRs to go to people who will definitely show up & eat a meal? That's easily understood.

WDW is different from any other business as they don't have the competition other businesses do. It's up to them to decide how they run their business. We as customers can accept that or spend our vacations elsewhere. We can say how we think they should run their business all we want. Obviously, some guests idea of how they should run their business isn't what they think. Maybe, they don't think they need to accept leaving a table empty or depend on walk-ups, just to make a customer happy. Maybe, they think they can have enough happy customers & fill the tables. I have no idea what they think, but I do know it really doesn't matter what we think. I don't agree with every decision they make either, but I don't expect them to change their minds, just to make some customers happy.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Bc as someone who has kids with asthma, I know most of their triggers but I dont know all of them esp when I travel. DS8 is allergic to trees and some days he is fine outside and others he is a mess, and the weather reports on pollen are not always accurate. We spend a lot of time tweaking things for him, but if his eyes blow up like ballons, bc the pollen is extremely bad, I dont think I should be dragging him to see Mickey or having others worry that he has pink eye nor should I be charged.

Or like the example I gave before of the wildfires in GA (not in FL but in GA) that were causing lots of people to have aggravated asthma symptoms.

When we have traveled, (to other places as well as WDW) we have had to make adjustments based on conditions that 90% of the time we have under control. It is just the nature of what we deal with. But I have no intention of making my kids sit through anything if they dont feel well. And once again we do not go to meals unless we are all together, esp a character meal. I can tell you right now that DS14 and DH dont want to go to a character meal when it is for DS8 that I most likely made the meal for. We would eat in our room together...and then maybe sign out a board game from DVC and chill. Or maybe two of them would go ride rides after DS8 fell asleep but they would not want to eat a big meal without us. Now if one of us were contagious I might scoot the others out of the room for awhile but not if it was just allergies or asthma, for that we stay together as a family.

Fortunately, wildfires aren't a common occurrence.

Life is about choices. As you said, you have no intention of making them sit through anything they don't feel like doing. As a parent, that's your decision to make. (FWIW, I'm the same way.) You also know ahead of time that you may not make it to all your ADRs, because of medical conditions that may flare up. You now have 3 choices. You could not make ADRs, you could send part of your family to the ADR, or you could accept the fee. WDW isn't forcing any of them on you. They are giving you choices, but they expect you to stand behind whichever choice you make. That isn't too much to ask of anyone. We should stand behind our choices. If they forced you to make the ADR, required everyone in your family be there, & charged you a fee, if that weren't the case, no one would blame them for getting angry with them. The bottom line is they're not forcing anything on you.

 

[Colleen27]

I'd be very surprised if those with chronic issues didn't have some idea of what triggered them. I know exactly what times of year I will feel best/worst. I also know that over-doing it will result in me being in the bed all day the next day. I know how many hours I can depend on my body to go. That is how many hours I have to work with in a day. I have to plan those wisely on vacation. Someone who didn't realize they were sick at all, wouldn't know that. Most people would have to have some idea something was wrong though. Most chronic illnesses don't pop up overnight. Fortunately, from the way it sounds, if a person is totally blindsided by a previously unknown illness, they will be able to sit it out & the rest of the family can dine w/o paying a fee.

It takes time to learn those triggers, though, particularly the ones unique to travel situations. You're local so you are managing your conditions in a relatively stable environment; those of us coming from other parts of the country are dealing with the additional unknown quantity of Florida itself - the weather, the flora & fauna, situational factors like wildfires.

It took me until my 3rd raging, out-of-control arrival day migraine to realize it was the extreme weather change that was triggering it. The first two times it happened there were plausible alternative factors involved (pregnancy, caffeine withdrawal) so it wasn't until the third occurrence that I realized the problem and responded accordingly. But winter travel is the only time I experience that particular set of circumstances; going from sub-freezing to sub-tropical in 3 hours' time just doesn't happen under normal conditions. The same is true for many other conditions - asthma that is well controlled for midwestern weather, pollen, air pollution, and other contributing factors may flare unexpectedly in the completely different environment, gastrointestinal issues that are manageable with home cooking and predictable eating habits may pose a problem with dining out for every meal, etc.

 

[twinklebug]

This is all an accounting game I refuse to play. We are people, not numbers. I never abused the reservation system and always, respectfully cancelled well before time so someone else could take our spot.

My solution: I'm simply not making any reservations a CC is required to hold unless it's a dinner show.

This means we'll miss those character buffets (the kids are getting older anyway) This also means a few of our favorite resting places may not have walk-up availability. I'm willing to risk it. I'm also willing to head out to the store and buy food for the villa and cook up a proper pot of spagetti and meatballs or coldcuts.

Who's going to loose in this game? Us or Disney?

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Unless that family was at Legoland, Universal, KSC etc. Unless the child got sick at the park and went back to their resort.

By now, we all know there's apparently limitless excuses one could use for missing an ADR. The sheer number of excuses is mind-boggling. How can anyone read this thread & not understand why WDW will now start charging for missed ADRs? It's amazing how many excuses someone can come up with in order to maintain the same behavior with no consequences. It's even more surprising, when it's coming from people who say they've never canceled last minute or were never a no show. They've obviously spent a lot of time thinking of reasons why they could possibly not make it for someone who always does. It makes you wonder how some people manage to show up to their ADRs at all, when there's obviously so many things that could prevent them from doing so.

The extra walking, heat and different sleep schedule can have an impact on chronic conditions.

As I've said, I've lived with chronic health problems for years, & know many others who live/lived with them every day also. Those who have them know they can't push themselves under those conditions & not pay the price. You limit your walking, only stay out in the heat as long as your body with take, & keep a regular sleep schedule. It isn't that hard to figure out. What you don't do is obligate yourself to something months in advance, then do everything but that. Again, we're talking about personal responsibility here.

Interesting tidbit (well maybe only interesting to me):

I am writing this post from the Caribe Royale in Orlando. I am here for a work conference. The conference is about transforming the mental health system. Why? Because the mental health system needs transforming because for too long it's treated the people it serves like a problem to be managed.

Meanwhile... I did go to Disney while here. At the very last minute, I bought a ticket to Thursday's Halloween party, at the gates, at about 5:00 p.m.

At one point prior to this conference, I had a room being held at Pop Century for the night before the conference (with the plan to go to the Halloween party then) plus a couple ADRs in place. In other words, Disney almost got $$ for TS plus a room PLUS the party ticket out of my wallet.

But the more I thought about it, the more pointless it seemed. The more of a hassle it seemed! So instead I decided to take my chances on whether a party would still have tickets available day-of, stay at the Caribe rather than Pop, and forego any TS dining at Disney.

Why? Because it's enough that in my daily life (read: work) I'm constantly fighting a system and trying to make it work for the people it's supposed to serve. All of a sudden, trying to navigate the intracacies of Disney's "system" to have a break from my work conference didn't seem like such of a break! It seemed like more work!

So there you go. A very real example of how the more complicated Disney makes things, the more regimented they get, the more scheduled it feels, and the more I feel them viewing me as a problem (rather than a person).... the more I resist.

And as I resist, I go to a more and more "on the fly" style. And the more I do this, the LESS money they get from me. It's not premeditated but it just works out that way.

By the way: two thumbs up for the Caribe if anyone's looking for off-site accommodations. It's actually got me considering cancelling WL for January, getting a car, and spending some time in Sea World and maybe Universal and the beach, and perhaps eating off-site too. Would result in more room space, flexibility in dining, the chance to do SW and the beach, and.... even with extra (non-Disney) tickets and the car, should still cost less than or at least break even with WL (with a 35% discount).

(If you read this far, God bless you. Here, have a popcorn: )

P.S. The pool at Caribe Royale is pretty darn nice.

Good for him/her. They made the decision that was best for them. I'm glad he/she is happy with it.

I'm sorry but I don't view someone who makes 10 ADR's over a 10 day trip and misses one because someone got sick the same way as I do someone who books 3 for each meal every day to cover all options then blows off the extra. I know you find them to be equivilant, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

Honestly, we make the ADR's we expect to keep and we keep them, so please don't assume anything to the contrary. Even though I intend to keep them all, it IS punishing me to add an extra potential financial exposure to me if someone DOES happen to get sick on our trip (in addition to lost park time and lost dining credits).

Contrary to what you think about anyone opposed to this, I'm actually more concerned for families with dealing with chronic illnesses (thankfully we are not), or for those with small kids (which we are beyond) who seem to be more prone to picking up illnesses along the way.

If people were only canceling that ADR last minute for sickness, I may agree. We all know it's more likely another reason they'd cancel last minute or didn't show. On this thread, we've been given numerous reasons for them doing so. I agree those few who were truly sick may be punished for the many who had other reasons.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

It takes time to learn those triggers, though, particularly the ones unique to travel situations. You're local so you are managing your conditions in a relatively stable environment; those of us coming from other parts of the country are dealing with the additional unknown quantity of Florida itself - the weather, the flora & fauna, situational factors like wildfires.

It took me until my 3rd raging, out-of-control arrival day migraine to realize it was the extreme weather change that was triggering it. The first two times it happened there were plausible alternative factors involved (pregnancy, caffeine withdrawal) so it wasn't until the third occurrence that I realized the problem and responded accordingly. But winter travel is the only time I experience that particular set of circumstances; going from sub-freezing to sub-tropical in 3 hours' time just doesn't happen under normal conditions. The same is true for many other conditions - asthma that is well controlled for midwestern weather, pollen, air pollution, and other contributing factors may flare unexpectedly in the completely different environment, gastrointestinal issues that are manageable with home cooking and predictable eating habits may pose a problem with dining out for every meal, etc.

I travel the world, & use the same style of touring, regardless of where we are. If I were in a situation of not understanding my illness in a certain area, I wouldn't plan at all. I'd play it by ear.

This is all an accounting game I refuse to play. We are people, not numbers. I never abused the reservation system and always, respectfully cancelled well before time so someone else could take our spot.

My solution: I'm simply not making any reservations a CC is required to hold unless it's a dinner show.

This means we'll miss those character buffets (the kids are getting older anyway) This also means a few of our favorite resting places may not have walk-up availability. I'm willing to risk it. I'm also willing to head out to the store and buy food for the villa and cook up a proper pot of spagetti and meatballs or coldcuts.

Who's going to loose in this game? Us or Disney?

Good for you. It sounds like you have found a solution that will work for your family. That's great! I'm sure you will have wonderful trips in the future.

 

[Cafeen]

At this point, it's pretty obvious. Those who support this policy in full (including the asinine cancellation policy) don't give a crap about those who will be negatively affected. They only care about getting their own "last minute" ADRs and such.

Some people just feel nothing for the unfortunate circumstances of other people, and that's shown greatly here. Unfortunately, Disney itself is moving to this position as well, as it's getting to that time when it is just another vacation and just another theme park.

We have one side saying that it doesn't address the problem, offering logical and anecdotal evidence as to why it doesn't address the problem, tossing up potential situations where the policy is not published to be the target, and offering valid and sound alterations to said policy. We have the other side saying "Shut up, I don't care, Disney can do what it wants."

It's no wonder why I'm getting overly frustrated with people.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

At this point, it's pretty obvious. Those who support this policy in full (including the asinine cancellation policy) don't give a crap about those who will be negatively affected. They only care about getting their own "last minute" ADRs and such.

Some people just feel nothing for the unfortunate circumstances of other people, and that's shown greatly here. Unfortunately, Disney itself is moving to this position as well, as it's getting to that time when it is just another vacation and just another theme park.

We have one side saying that it doesn't address the problem, offering logical and anecdotal evidence as to why it doesn't address the problem, tossing up potential situations where the policy is not published to be the target, and offering valid and sound alterations to said policy. We have the other side saying "Shut up, I don't care, Disney can do what it wants."

It's no wonder why I'm getting overly frustrated with people.

Sorry, but I'm not hungry isn't an unfortunate circumstance. It's easily preventable. That's the reason you said you personally had canceled last minute or had been a no show early on in the thread.

I'm sure we all care about people with unfortunately circumstances. I definitely do. Frankly, I just remember the excuses given early in the thread, & know this isn't all about people being sick. It's about people wanting to continue canceling last minute or not show, because they're not hungry, want to ride another ride, the kids went swimming & now they're tired, the kids have been going all day & are cranky, the weather isn't perfect, someone is hungover, etc. I'm not buying what all the people who have now turned to the "sick" argument are selling. People are now thinking up any reason why someone may get sick & using that to attempt to bolster the argument. It's getting ridiculous. It's not like new people are coming here to add their personal story. It's the same people coming up with different excuses. I was trying to not be so blunt, but being accused of not caring about people, because you're not buying the never ending excuses people can come up with, is going too far. The reality is most of the things mentioned here can be managed, if it's given priority. Some people see previous commitments as priorities. Those who don't shouldn't make commitments. It's that simple.

For the people who originally mentioned loved ones getting sick on previous trips, I feel bad. They're paying for all those with other excuses, as are other guests. Unfortunately, guests have always had to pay the price for those who make ADRs months in advance, keeping others from getting in, then don't feel obligated to show up. People are upset that they'll no longer be able to book up the best restaurants, then decide if they want to show up last minute. So, who really doesn't consider other people?

I'm sure both sides are getting frustrated at this point. That said, none of this is personal to me. I may get frustrated, but I don't take any of it personally. The fact that someone doesn't agree with me doesn't mean I feel any less of them. We're all entitled to our opinion, & that is all it is. One opinion doesn't define a person.

 

[SmallWorld71]

I'm sure both sides are getting frustration at this point.

I'm sure getting frustrated. I'm one of those who has stated from the beginning that the only ADR we've ever missed was due to an illness the day of.

Even though I personally don't see I'm tired, bad planning etc... as a reason to not go to an ADR, I think Disney's policy is too restrictive and that their cancellation window is absurd.

Interestingly to me, some people see this policy in black and white, while all I see are shades of grey. To me, it's not about the responsibility of the guest vs. the responsibility of Disney, it's about the responsibility of BOTH. I, as the guest, will dutifully make my ADR's with the intentions of keeping them and will keep them to the best of my ability. But, if something happens to me and/ or my family, then Disney needs to be understanding and not compound my unfortunate circumstance. IMO, for this to work for both guests and Disney, it needs to be a two-way street. Not the one-way street that some people are seeing it as.

 

[Colleen27]

For some of us it has been about being sick all along, though. I did mention a cancellation for weather; that's happened once in 5 trips and the ADR was at a restaurant unaffected by this change. And I've last-minute (at the podium) cancelled Le Cellier when they were running too far behind for us to wait, a circumstance that theoretically shouldn't happen with this policy and that therefore shouldn't be a factor on future trips. That's it for non-illness related changes. Cancellations for sickness of one type or another have been a factor on several trips so that's my main concern - I already take a big enough financial hit on other aspects of the trip that we miss out on if someone gets sick without getting cancellation penalties heaped on as well. If they crack down on all the other reasons I think it is unreasonable but not intolerable and even somewhat understandable, but if they genuinely intend to penalize people for catching norovirus or the flu in the teeming mass of humanity that is a Disney vacation (and from CM responses about the policy it seems that they do) it crosses over into ridiculous in my opinion. This is a destination well known for being excellent for families regardless of special needs and they're instituting a policy that runs directly contrary to that reputation and approach to customer service.