New buses coming in early 2024 - ECV restrictions

[Evita_W]

Is this conspiracy theory hour? They aren't out to get you.

Honestly, the more I consider it, it is the only thing that would make any sense, I mean, who in their right mind would get busses that open themselves up to this level of a liability and when it is so obvious? I mean seats that fold back up very quickly, lack of places to hold on to and fewer seats all add up to obvious liability issues. Consider the level of lawyers and amount of safety studies they should do before buying a single bus to satisfy the lawyers and what other conclusions are you going to draw at this point?

 

[starlite_]

Honestly, the more I consider it, it is the only thing that would make any sense, I mean, who in their right mind would get busses that open themselves up to this level of a liability and when it is so obvious? I mean seats that fold back up very quickly, lack of places to hold on to and fewer seats all add up to obvious liability issues. Consider the level of lawyers and amount of safety studies they should do before buying a single bus to satisfy the lawyers and what other conclusions are you going to draw at this point?

If they wanted to stop catering to ECV users they would simply not allow them in the parks and would stop renting them. They don't need to create an evil master plan and spend millions on buses to make ECV users look bad.

 

[Debbie Jean]

No conspiracy here. Just a poor decision making process which is in the hands of people who have no personal experience with the actual process… as a driver, passenger, parent or mobility device user. None.

Drivers… and other passengers… were unhappy with the time to load devices and they needed to replace buses. So…. they look at those nifty videos of these new buses… you remember people posting them? Sure looked great… easy in, locks by itself, hot damn we got a winner! Of course, they always showed a highly maneuverable power chair with an experienced user, not a massive ECV with an inexperienced user… but it sure looked good. Nobody is even looking at the other seats. Be honest … when you looked at those videos did you really look at the other passenger seats? The focus was on the new locking system for disability devices.

Not sure what they can do about it now… I’m guessing they can’t cancel the order. But we’ve now got busted locks that can’t take ECVs, passengers falling over, and aggravated drivers.
Maybe they’ll come up with modifications… but not if the same people are making decisions. I’m at least hoping they don’t retire the old buses as quickly as they may have originally planned.

 

[Evita_W]

No conspiracy here. Just a poor decision making process which is in the hands of people who have no personal experience with the actual process… as a driver, passenger, parent or mobility device user. None.

Drivers… and other passengers… were unhappy with the time to load devices and they needed to replace buses. So…. they look at those nifty videos of these new buses… you remember people posting them? Sure looked great… easy in, locks by itself, hot damn we got a winner! Of course, they always showed a highly maneuverable power chair with an experienced user, not a massive ECV with an inexperienced user… but it sure looked good. Nobody is even looking at the other seats. Be honest … when you looked at those videos did you really look at the other passenger seats? The focus was on the new locking system for disability devices.

Not sure what they can do about it now… I’m guessing they can’t cancel the order. But we’ve now got busted locks that can’t take ECVs, passengers falling over, and aggravated drivers.
Maybe they’ll come up with modifications… but not if the same people are making decisions. I’m at least hoping they don’t retire the old buses as quickly as they may have originally planned.

Our local transit authority has some buses that have an autolock system that works for about 95% of mobility devices out there, but it does require the driver to unlock them and verify that they are locked in place. But it works quite well and doesn’t take up extra seats. The bus driver can raise and lower the seats from the driver seat or by physically going back to the seats.

The difference though is they load through the door in the middle of the bus and unload from the front door. This would obviously present some challenges at some of the bus stops as they are presently designed; however, the system would work much better and noo one has to sit facing backwards, try to turn around on the bus or back off the bus.

I think they might be able to cancel the order if they can demonstrate that they are materially different than what they were represented as, which given the issues, I am guessing they are. Alternatively, they may be able to reconfigure the interiors of the busses that haven’t arrived yet.

 

[Evita_W]

If they wanted to stop catering to ECV users they would simply not allow them in the parks and would stop renting them. They don't need to create an evil master plan and spend millions on buses to make ECV users look bad.

Legally, they can’t prohibit them from the parks as they are recognized mobility devices under the ADA, they have to allow ones that are within a specific size (Disney’s limits are actually slightly larger than what they are required to allow) and they can specify that the devices must be able to balance themselves when no one is using it. But they cannot prohibit ECVs or Electric Wheelchairs completely. But they can try to sway the public’s opinion about them.

The could stop renting them though from a legal perspective.

 

[Debbie Jean]

Legally, they can’t prohibit them from the parks as they are recognized mobility devices under the ADA, they have to allow ones that are within a specific size (Disney’s limits are actually slightly larger than what they are required to allow) and they can specify that the devices must be able to balance themselves when no one is using it. But they cannot prohibit ECVs or Electric Wheelchairs completely. But they can try to sway the public’s opinion about them.

The could stop renting them though from a legal perspective.

What do you mean by the bolded from your post?

 

[Lsdolphin]

We will be at CSR next week with an ECV I’m hoping that it won’t be a huge issue when returning from park at closing. Seems like if we are on the newer bus and have to get off at first stop then all the people standing around us would have to get off bus in order for us to get ECV off. In older buses you are right across from the ramp to get off…

 

[gottalovepluto]

We will be at CSR next week with an ECV I’m hoping that it won’t be a huge issue when returning from park at closing. Seems like if we are on the newer bus and have to get off at first stop then all the people standing around us would have to get off bus in order for us to get ECV off. In older buses you are right across from the ramp to get off…

People have to do the shuffle off and on both bus types if they’re crowded enough for getting ECVs out, don’t think there is that much more shuffling to do on the new bus vs the old one especially if you were tied down in the front slot of the old bus.

 

[Goldelpack]

I'm wondering where all the conspiracy theories regarding these busses comes from? - it seems to me that overall decisions regarding this (and other decisions) are damned if you do/damned if you don't. When the new bus purchases were first introduced it seemed like a practical answer to one of the biggest concerns that we, as ECV users had - and that was the limit of 2 per bus AND the impracticality of vendor busses such as Academy where zero ECVs could be accommodated. As is true for much of life - to gain something, we often lose something - gaining a slot for an extra ECV with a lot more space to turn and such comes at the price of reduced seats for non-ECV users. As far as malfunctions go - that's something that comes with most new contraptions - be it lack of experience in use, maintenance, or whatever. Overall however, it seems that these are very isolated incidents and at least in my limited experience (which is detailed somewhere in this thread) it was really not a big issue. All of us choose to go to a Disney park. We choose (be it out of necessity or not) to use mobility aids. We choose to use the Disney bus system. No one is forcing us to use the bus system and in 100% of all situations there is at least 1 available alternative way to get from point A to point B. Due diligence of having researched (or experienced) these busses would seem to me that we know what the limitations are. Lack of such research is not an excuse to blame the company's decision.

Best possible solution for transportation - futurepods! A continuous system of fully accessible pods that travel through high speed monorail like tracks and have the ability to FLY thru FLA - fly to any destination by selection - bench seating for up to 10 with at least 2 places that convert to accommodate ECVs..​

 

[gottalovepluto]

I'm wondering where all the conspiracy theories regarding these busses comes from?

Only one frustrated person put out a conspiracy theory, which was immediately disagreed with by other posters (and I concur, it was bad decision making not a conspiracy against ECV users). The rest of us are dealing with personal experiences and responding to the reports of others experiences and speculating what could happen next/what we hope happens next.

Nobody should be made to feel bad for complaining. And nobody should be made to feel bad because “Disney tried” and compared to the low bars everyone else sets we should get on our knees and be grateful for what Disney has or just don’t go.

 

[Gillig von Driver]

We will be at CSR next week with an ECV I’m hoping that it won’t be a huge issue when returning from park at closing. Seems like if we are on the newer bus and have to get off at first stop then all the people standing around us would have to get off bus in order for us to get ECV off. In older buses you are right across from the ramp to get off…

If you would be getting off at stops 2,3 or 4 the scenario you described is possible. Should you be staying in the Destino Tower (I hope you are) returning from the theme parks will not be a problem as it is the last stop. Wishing you a magical stay!

 

[Evita_W]

What do you mean by the bolded from your post?

I mean they can do things that try to put those who need ECVs in a bad light. They would have to do this subtly though to avoid a PR backlash, but something like these new busses are an example of what they could do. Now I don’t know if it is intentional or not, but let’s be honest, these new busses are supposed to be to better accommodate ECVs, but quite arguably make it far worse on those who don’t need ECVs, this is going to lead to more resentment towards those who do need ECVs. The concern I see here is if they sway public opinion enough, they may just try to call for changes to the laws.

Even if it doesn’t get to that point, the fact that two of the ECVs have to face backwards means that those who can’t transfer now have to stare at the faces of the other angry passengers, many of whom now have to stand without anything to hold on to. This will cause massive discomfort for those using ECVs.

As I said, I don’t know if it is intentional or not, but it sure feels that way at this point (based on this and other changes being made, such as at the monorail stations and such that keep making it more difficult instead of easier) and all of these negatives and the busses aren’t even working right anyway. But even if it is not intentional, then it is insane negligence at best. And yes, we absolutely should be complaining about these issues.

 

[Evita_W]

Best possible solution for transportation - futurepods! A continuous system of fully accessible pods that travel through high speed monorail like tracks and have the ability to FLY thru FLA - fly to any destination by selection - bench seating for up to 10 with at least 2 places that convert to accommodate ECVs..​

There actually is a system that is affordable to build that would do this, although they are usually limited to 6 people and 1 ECV, but since they are continuous, it doesn’t really matter how many people, as the next pod would arrive almost simultaneously with the first. And this would also save on labor cost, as the ability to have the ECV is automatic and needs no staffing, there are also no drivers needed for the system.

 

[Genie+]

I mean they can do things that try to put those who need ECVs in a bad light. They would have to do this subtly though to avoid a PR backlash, but something like these new busses are an example of what they could do. Now I don’t know if it is intentional or not, but let’s be honest, these new busses are supposed to be to better accommodate ECVs, but quite arguably make it far worse on those who don’t need ECVs, this is going to lead to more resentment towards those who do need ECVs. The concern I see here is if they sway public opinion enough, they may just try to call for changes to the laws.

As I said, I don’t know if it is intentional or not, but it sure feels that way at this point and all of these negatives and the busses aren’t even working right anyway.

I doubt it’s intentional because all of the risk involved. They’d have to risk severely disrupting operations by intentionally using inferior vehicles, and they’d have to risk that such a stupid plan gets leaked and crushes their public image. Could you imagine something like that leaking out and any hiccup allowing an opening for lawyers to descend. All so they could ‘maybe’ make users and the public upset enough to accept major changes to operations in relation to ECVs.

There’s a saying, never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. Most likely there were oversights on certain aspects.

 

[jlundeen]

Perhaps the decision makers for all transportation get some first hand experience of all the types of people on the vehicles - in the case of buses,

1. Standing in a switchback queue 5 deep consisting of tired/sleeping children and humongous folded strollers
2. As an ECV guest with family members
3. As a driver (or ride along observer - don't think I would want a novice driving a crowded bus).

And have them experience this at several times during the day, especially early AM and park closing. They might get a little better perspective.

I've always felt that top office should do a regular stint as an "in the trenches" Cast Member, and also as a guest.

Never hurts to walk a mile in other's shoes.

 

[Genie+]

There actually is a system that is affordable to build that would do this, although they are usually limited to 6 people and 1 ECV, but since they are continuous, it doesn’t really matter how many people, as the next pod would arrive almost simultaneously with the first. And this would also save on labor cost, as the ability to have the ECV is automatic and needs no staffing, there are also no drivers needed for the system.

My dream is skyliner gets connected to Ticket Transportation Center, or somewhere over in that area.

 

[Evita_W]

I doubt it’s intentional because all of the risk involved. They’d have to risk severely disrupting operations by intentionally using inferior vehicles, and they’d have to risk that such a stupid plan gets leaked and crushes their public image. Could you imagine something like that leaking out and any hiccup allowing an opening for lawyers to descend. All so they could ‘maybe’ make users and the public upset enough to accept major changes to operations in relation to ECVs.

There’s a saying, never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. Most likely there were oversights on certain aspects.

If they are oversights, then it is gross incompetence, they really do need to get some first hand experience.

My dream is skyliner gets connected to Ticket Transportation Center, or somewhere over in that area.

I would say no to the skyliner, unless they actually install AC on them, during warmer weather, they get extremely hot when they stop moving.

 

[Gillig von Driver]

My dream is skyliner gets connected to Ticket Transportation Center, or somewhere over in that area.

Now that we know where you want to go on your dream Skyliner,where would you start from and what stops would it have along the way? Just curious .

 

[Genie+]

Now that we know where you want to go on your dream Skyliner,where would you start from and what stops would it have along the way? Just curious .

If the sky’s the limit then skyliner starts in NYC and goes down I95

In the WDW bubble, connect International Gateway stop to 7 Seas Lagoon by running up World Drive. That’s only how far I’ve gotten.

What stops would you like to see?

 

[jlundeen]

Now that we know where you want to go on your dream Skyliner,where would you start from and what stops would it have along the way? Just curious .

Why not just connect it to MK to take a load off the buses there? Then on to TTC, Front of Epcot, and maybe have another that goes to AK while we are dreaming. Since they only stop it with emergencies, (or other unforseen things) it may be able to handle a lot of folks and help in all the parks.