New AP system, blame yourselves!!

[ddank]

It was only a matter of time. AP holders, specifically those on this very message board, have cheated the system for years (booking many rooms to leave their options open, booking without a AP (or with a childs AP), booking at rack rate with no intension of keeping the room unless a AP rate comes out, calling 5 times a day everyday looking for discounts). Its been borderline insanity and now it may have completely ruined it for everyone who werent so *clever* and just wanted a discount, if its available. Well smart companies like Disney figure this out and implement changes to prevent customers from cheating their systems (one that allowed many of us to visit the resort several times a year). Well that could be over now and theres noone to blame but yourselves. This new system is a direct responce to the actions of those on this board, face it.

 

[debster812]

This new system is a direct responce to the actions of those on this board, face it.

With all due respect, I have to disagree. The new system is a DIRECT response to tourism being up, parks and resorts being at capacity, and WDW no longer needing to get warm bodies into rooms. Among other things.

Were some of the more 'creative' uses of AP discounts responsible? Perhaps. Solely responsible? NOT ON YOUR LIFE.

DISBoard members make up a VERY small percentage of WDW guests.

And some have posted on different threads that this new system is also simply a promotion, and NOT the only way.

Stay tuned, I think we need more information, and to have this in place for a while before you start to tar and feather the collective posters on the Resorts Board.

 

[bicker]

The new system is a DIRECT response to tourism being up, parks and resorts being at capacity, and WDW no longer needing to get warm bodies into rooms.

I think Debbie hit the nail on the head. This isn't a reaction to anything, but really just the most profitable offering, in the professional judgement of the market managers at Disney. It simply differs from previous years (but someone else pointed out today that this "new" AP program doesn't specifically preclude them also offering the "old" AP discounts, if they find themselves needing to do so -- just like every year).

 

[Amy&Dan]

I agree and disagree (always a wishy-washy gal)! I have often wondered what the effect of people booking multiple resorts has on the system. Just like I wonder if people figuring how to outsmart the fastpass system is making that change. But then again, how many people actually do that? These boards have a huge following but when you think about the actual number of people who frequent WDW that still leaves a lot of people who just go without the amount of knowledge many of us have. I know I don't broadcast my tips to just anyone because then it won't be a best kept secret anymore! I agree that park attendance is up so they don't need to discount as much anymore, especially during peak seasons. I do think the insanity of the code discount system needed to be changed. I still don't understand the concept behind that system. I know that the day codes came out for our April trip people were posting about waiting for somebody to answer their call for hours. I let my travel agent worry with that and did get my discount but not at the resort I was already booked at (POFQ) so she changed us to POR where they did had discounts left. Now I don't hold much hope to get a discount for my mid october stay at the Contemporary but I had budgeted rack rate all along so I guess I'll live. All of this just makes me wonder about having an AP now in the first place. I can't take advantage of a lot of the deals you get with a package because I don't need the tickets. Add to that my DVC membership and I doubt I'll ever get any free dining or room discounts! Oh well, I am so addicted to the whole WDW experience I'll pay whatever they charge in the end!

 

[Mich Mouse]

I believe the OP has made a valid point. Marketing representitives from WDW absolutely follow the threads on this site. The new regulations are likely partially WDW's attempt to prevent people from cheating the system.

The OP is a little angry though!

Let's remember though that the marketing representatives want us to come to WDW....It is their job to figure out how to get us there! And we will be there with great AP discounts.

This will all work itself out. Keep the faith!

 

[bicker]

I do think the insanity of the code discount system needed to be changed. I still don't understand the concept behind that system.

At a high-level, the purpose of the code system is to replace the traditional system of offering targeted discounts. Previously, you could target specific demographics by advertising the discounts only in certain markets or certain periodicals. Now, with the overbearing presence of the Internet, any discount advertised in any market, in any periodical, gets republished (without permission) so that the discount is often taken advantage of by folks for whom the discount wasn't intended.

Let me back up a step. Let's keep in mind that the purpose of discounting is to increase revenue. That can be done either of two ways: (1) By getting people to spend more for what they're purchasing (the loyal customer premium); or (2) By getting people to make a purchase who wouldn't have otherwise done so (the reluctant customer discount). Clearly, the worst case scenario for a hotel offering a discount is to have someone who would have paid a premium for the hotel reservation (#1) end up using a reluctant customer discount, thereby both spending less and using up space allocated to get someone to make reservations who wouldn't have otherwise visited (#2). With the unauthorized republication of discounts on the Internet, the whole foundation for marketing services was disrupted (not just for hotels, but for all customer-facing industries). Disney's coded discounting system restores that balance.

 

[Susiesnowflake]

While these boards have made it quite evident that there are a lot of people cheating Disney, especially in regards to securing AP discounts without actually having APs, Disney has enabled this by not requiring verification of AP at check-in.

 

[Disneyrsh]

Wow, we're AP holders and we've never done any of the things the OP ranted about!

What we used to do was watch what Mousesavers would post about the ap rates, or occasionally we'd see an ad in the paper, and we'd call and book our room.

Now that we're DVC'ers, we don't use the AP to get room discounts anymore, but it seems like gradually over the past few years Disney has started not liking us AP'ers as much, anyway. Miss that EPCOT lounge....

 

[Best_Vacation_EVER!]

I agree with those posters who say this was done primarily because the tourism industry has picked up. If they can sell a room at rack rate -- they don't need to offer the discount. If they are filling there rooms at the higher rates I would expect there to be fewer and fewer AP discounts regardless of the new plan.

Also if the current system added unreasonable traffic for the customer service agents -- who deal with all customers not just AP'ers -- then it only makes further sense to do so.

If people have been booking multiple reservations with no intention of following through on them it only makes sense for Disney to try to stop this. Having read a number of posts about no availability at some resorts for some peak periods -- it would seem that asking for someone to place a deposit/cancellation fee is totally reasonable.

bicker, your points about the nature of marketing in the internet age are so true. Information such as the discount codes that might have only spread to a few people beyond the original recipient, now can be disseminated to thousands or millions in the matter of a second or two. Very difficult for targeting your marketing in this type of environment.

 

[SlightlyGoofy]

I am guilty of using the system but I do not believe I have ever abused the system. I have been going to DW for many years and one of the reasons is being able to book at the last minute often , getting a discount (bigger these past few years)getting my AP just before my trip often and liberal cancellation rules. (Magic being the main reason tho)

I have only made one reservation for each trip and have only had to cancel one time, health reasons. Health reasons are the big reason why we have chosen to spend our vacations at DW as I often do not know how I am going to feel at any given time.

I wonder how long it will be before they crack down on those who make several PS's for each meal as well? I always did wonder about those with multiple reservations for each trip. I would think that the computer could easily weed out those few who do that without making everyone suffer. JMO

I fear that if I have to worry about a possible cancellation penalty I am going to be less likely to book in the first place.

A thought though, if the restrictions are as awful as they sound and many do not decide to go we may get some awfully good last minute rates ala the airlines.

I will wait and see how it shakes out. We had a fall trip planned and then two more next year.

Slightly Goofy

 

[Amy&Dan]

I wonder how long it will be before they crack down on those who make several PS's for each meal as well? I always did wonder about those with multiple reservations for each trip. I would think that the computer could easily weed out those few who do that without making everyone suffer. JMO

This is the same kind of theory I was talking about in reference to the fastpass system. As more people make repeat trips to WDW they learn all the little tricks. I have seen trip reports lately where people talk about valet parking at an Epcot or a Monorail resort by lying that they have a ps so they can get in. Now yes, they do PAY for the valet parking but if everybody does that, guess what. NOBODY but guests will be able to park valet or otherwise in the future because it will put a stress on the parking at those resorts. Also, I have always gotten some sort of ticket that says plainly you can only park for like three hours while you eat and then you have to move your car (non valet) while you eat at say Chef Mickey's but I know people who just leave it there for much longer while they hop over to MK for Wishes or whatever. I think people are banking that like so many other policies Disney won't enforce that so they just go ahead and park for as long as they like or valet park and figure they are paying for it so what does it matter. I have also seen people who save fastpasses from previous trips and then use them the next time. Again, yes you can do that but if eveybody does that the fastpass system won't work right and they will change it like I think they are about to do. I admit that sometimes I have used fastpasses a few hours after they came up but never anymore than that. All of this just points to me that as more people learn the tricks Disney will have to change their policies in many areas or figure out a way to "police" the current systems agains abusers. Frankly for those that booked numerous reservations its too bad that CRO didn't have some way of tracking that and saying hey, you can't have more than one reservation for the same time frame. Maybe they do and just don't enforce it so now they are going to institute this tough cancellation policy instead. Add to all of that an increase in tourism and Disney doens't need to add incentives for as much as they used to where the resorts are concerned.

I fear that if I have to worry about a possible cancellation penalty I am going to be less likely to book in the first place.

I worry about that too. Especially if you are booking a Deluxe room. If I cancel out on a $79 Pop rate that is one thing but if I cancel out on my $380 Contemporary rate that is another. I fly from Denver, if I get delayed or have to cancel due to a blizzard do I get my deposit taken even if I rebook for a later date? So many things to consider! The op's post may seem somewhat harsh but I think they do bring up some really valid points.

 

[agnes!]

Oh *please* ...
I'm sure that someone somewhere can even figure out how to sidestep/cheat/work this 'new' system, but according to your thesis every single decision that Disney corporate makes is due to customers beating whatever system that corporate has put into place.

There is no way that I am...
*putting down a NONrefundable deposit 120 DAYS IN ADVANCE!!! of my stay *equal to one night's rack-rate stay + tax
*ONLY* (btw) AVAILABLE ON-LINE (or through a Travel Agent)
with
*no guarantee of any discount...one could end up paying rack...so ALWAYS budget for that beloved/popular/ !!! rack rate

This (supposed) 'Best Room Rate' is a joke. Not that Annual Passholders are the biggest part of the Disney Customer(I mean, *really*, are we really being treated like 'guests'?) pie, but I think that a lot of the AP business that Magic Express was siphoning off of the off-site vendors(hotels, taxi/limo companies, restaurants) and directing into the corporate coffers is now probably headed straight back off-site after October 5th. IM(not very)HO, this is a monumental blunder that only the Disney marketing whizzes could have come up with.
And yes, I know that the only thing I am guaranteed by being an AP-holder is park admission.
I'd rather only have park admission and nothing else than these poorly thought-out, half-a**ed offers. Annual Passholders helped keep WDW afloat during the dark times after September 11th - we kept coming and spending when the other segments of the public stayed away.
This is our thanks.

Here are Mary Waring's (from MouseSavers) thoughts on the subject...

"Since you can only book this program online, and a current, activated Annual Pass is required in order to access the online booking, it appears that you'll no longer be able to book the Annual Pass rate until you purchase and activate an Annual Pass. That means first-time Annual Passholders won't be able to use the Best Rate Program unless they are willing to activate the pass 3 months in advance!
"Strangest of all -- this new system supposedly applies to check-ins October 8 and later, but the first half of October is already less than 120 days away! So how are Passholders supposed to use this new system if they plan to stay October 8-15, for example?
"For the time being, I would advise sitting tight and waiting to see if some of the issues above are clarified by Disney. Right now you're being asked to buy a pig in a poke by handing over a nonrefundable deposit and hoping for a possible discount further down the road. I don't think that's a wise choice."

sign me,
(DIS/gruntled) agnes!

 

[tjmouse]

Let me first say that I have never abused the system. However, I just went to the passholders website and it tells me I can't book my trip! I am 163 days from arrival and it says I have to arrive on or before 11/26 in order to book! What's up with that? It clearly says at least 120 days prior to arrival and before 12/19, which my dates are! This is what's going to really annoy people!

I am trying to do what is right, what Disney says I should do, and it won't let me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! By the time they straighten it out, I could be less than 120 days out OR the rooms I have already reserved will be gone. I for one am not going to cancel my current reservation, but it's not fair for me to have to pay rack rates (if no codes are released that can be applied to my current reservation) just because their computer system is screwed up. That's what irritates me the most.

 

[lillygator]

It was only a matter of time. AP holders, specifically those on this very message board, have cheated the system for years (booking many rooms to leave their options open, booking without a AP (or with a childs AP), booking at rack rate with no intension of keeping the room unless a AP rate comes out, calling 5 times a day everyday looking for discounts). Its been borderline insanity and now it may have completely ruined it for everyone who werent so *clever* and just wanted a discount, if its available. Well smart companies like Disney figure this out and implement changes to prevent customers from cheating their systems (one that allowed many of us to visit the resort several times a year). Well that could be over now and theres noone to blame but yourselves. This new system is a direct responce to the actions of those on this board, face it.

1. First of all, I am an AP holder and I have never once CHEATED the system...in fact I always book my room and pay the deposit right then. THe majority of the time I wait until the discoutn comes out to book.

2. If you think Disney thinks so highly of you and the others who frequent this message board...think again.

 

[diathoney]

I believe the mouse is responding to the fact that most people book through CRO. They are hoping to get people to book online - saving themselves payroll and benefits that they pay to the phone agents all over the US. Calling CRO I have talked to people in Orlando, Tampa and Utah - who knows where else Disney has call centers.

I recently did a Disney survey asking if I would book online through Disney if -
I could get AP and FL Res discounts?
I could be guarenteed the lowest rate?
Make dining reservations and special requests online?

It seems to me they are trying to reduce the call centers (people) and get more people booking online.

 

[srfrgrl07]

This (supposed) 'Best Room Rate' is a joke. Not that Annual Passholders are the biggest part of the Disney Customer(I mean, *really*, are we really being treated like 'guests'?) pie, but I think that a lot of the AP business that Magic Express was siphoning off of the off-site vendors(hotels, taxi/limo companies, restaurants) and directing into the corporate coffers is now probably headed straight back off-site after October 5th. IM(not very)HO, this is a monumental blunder that only the Disney marketing whizzes could have come up with.
I'd rather only have park admission and nothing else than these poorly thought-out, half-a**ed offers. Annual Passholders helped keep WDW afloat during the dark times after September 11th - we kept coming and spending when the other segments of the public stayed away.
This is our thanks.

Here are Mary Waring's (from MouseSavers) thoughts on the subject...

"Since you can only book this program online, and a current, activated Annual Pass is required in order to access the online booking, it appears that you'll no longer be able to book the Annual Pass rate until you purchase and activate an Annual Pass. That means first-time Annual Passholders won't be able to use the Best Rate Program unless they are willing to activate the pass 3 months in advance!
"Strangest of all -- this new system supposedly applies to check-ins October 8 and later, but the first half of October is already less than 120 days away! So how are Passholders supposed to use this new system if they plan to stay October 8-15, for example?
"For the time being, I would advise sitting tight and waiting to see if some of the issues above are clarified by Disney. Right now you're being asked to buy a pig in a poke by handing over a nonrefundable deposit and hoping for a possible discount further down the road. I don't think that's a wise choice."

sign me,
(DIS/gruntled) agnes!

Actually, you only have to have an AP voucher to book online and you activate the pass the first time you use it. It's sad too see that you are upset by this new offer and think that Disney is out to cheat you after your loyalty during the tourism slump after 2001. I understand your feelings, but want to remind you that you do not have to book this offer if it is not in your best interest. It's just one of many options available to you now so that you can have 'Magic Your Way' within in reasonable terms (ie: no "free" vacations yet!) From my understanding of it, Disney wants to make longer vacations more affordable, hence the MYW tix and guaranteed discounts with advance planning. You can still take that spontaneous weekend trip with little notice, but the availability of lower priced rooms may not be there. I highly encourage you to email Disney with any suggestions you may have to revamp this offer or create one that would work better for you. Obviously by the number of posts on this topic, you are not the only one who feels this way. And as I see it, this offer was created based on feedback from AP holders who were wanting to book their discounts well in advance. Not sure about the nonrefundable rack rate deposit rule, but I'm sure that will be reevaluated or explained in greater detail based on feedback. Just my thoughts..

 

[Sammie]

While these boards have made it quite evident that there are a lot of people cheating Disney, especially in regards to securing AP discounts without actually having APs, Disney has enabled this by not requiring verification of AP at check-in.

Your exactly right and now they are taking the necessary steps to stop the problem.

Along with stopping people from making multiple room reservations, while waiting for the best rate to come out, then cancelling them. When people do this some of these rooms end up empty. Also it has cost Disney money when people tie up their phone lines with the never ending calling to "check" on rates. We have all seen people post here that they call several times each day. While someone is tying up the phone to just check on a possible discount, Disney is losing money.

The loss of revenue from the abuses of the current program is certainly not the only reason for the change. But along with a program that will reward those that can plan ahead, won't cancel out, it does take care of fixing some of the abuse problems.

As stated in other threads. Disney has been fully aware of the abuse of the AP program and also the fact that those that are full AP families have complained. I mean some are upset they can only book one room. If you only have one AP why would you need more than one room. If you have a need for a larger room, then the rest of your family needs APs too. Then you can book more than one room.

Mainly what has happened is the travel economy has changed. It is now getting back to pre 9-11 status and Disney may not need to offer discounts to fill rooms or offer very few. This is just good business and some that have become used to these generous discounts might have to adjust. I may be one of them, but it won't make me upset. I will simply book what I can afford.

I have always said that Disney might be slow, but they are not stupid. When an abuse of their policies cost them money, eventually they will change it to stop the abuse.

Watch out mugs, you might be next.

And yes sometimes we all pay for the sins or abuses of the few. Which has always been my point in many of these heated discussions. When people would state why do I care, if Disney does not care. Well eventually Disney will care and then it might directly affect me when they make changes that would not have occurred if everyone had been willing to play fair.

 

[threeboysmom]

You watch, the next thing Disney will target is their dining plan. With so many people once again finding ways to beat the system, Disney will come up with a way to put a stop to it just like they apparently just did with the AP/multiple bookings/endless phone call parade.

 

[Sammie]

You watch, the next thing Disney will target is their dining plan. With so many people once again finding ways to beat the system, Disney will come up with a way to put a stop to it just like they apparently just did with the AP/multiple bookings/endless phone call parade.

Definitely.

The Internet is a wonderful tool, but it is also a haven for scamming. If people are abusing the dining system to the point of costing Disney revenue then yes it will change. What some people forget that is Disney is a huge, multi dimensional company and changes of any kind take time. Also changes take time to fix the bugs in them. When you have over 55,000 people working for you, regardless of how much you preplan, you just can not trouble shoot every possible problem, until they actually happen.

 

[SlightlyGoofy]

Amy&Dan, most of us use the system but stay within the limits but there will always be those who abuse it.

The newest news sounds a whole lot better than what was posted last night. Might not be so bad.

If they can track how many times we have stayed, for how long etc. they can also track how many calls we make, how many rooms we have booked, how many PS's or whatever and could easily check our license plates (if not rentals) to see where we are staying and if we have a reservation at any of the resorts that our vehicle is parked at. Such a lot of trouble though.

I am willing to bet that any new dining plans will make sure you have to have more than a one day ticket.

I hope the latest news will ease your mind and you will be able to enjoy any trips you have planned worry free.

Slightly Goofy