Neighborhood Parking issues

[MillauFr]

If you really want to see some fireworks, just show up in Boston, NYC, Phily, Chicago, etc. after a big snowstorm. People will spend hours digging out "their spot". When someone else tries to park there it can get ugly in a hurry.

 

[bcla]

Yes, in the US.

Violation of Postal Operations Manual 632.14. The customer is theoretically required to keep the approach to the mailbox clear, but that's not always under the control of the customer. I get it with my driveway since I have plants that deposit leaves and flowers that may be a slip and fall hazard on the way to my mail slot. However, getting out of the vehicle and delivering is supposed to be done if the customer can't control it or if it's occasional. I for one can't figure out how a postal carrier is supposed to know whose car it is in front of a mailbox.

http://www.nalcbayarea.com/PDF Files/pom/pomc6.pdf

623.21 General​

The customer is responsible for keeping the approach to the mailbox clear to facilitate delivery (see 632.14). If the carrier continually experiences a problem in serving curbline boxes and where the customer is able to control access or on-street parking in front of his or her mailbox but does not take prompt corrective action after being properly notified, the postmaster may, with the approval of the district manager, withdraw delivery service.

632.14 Approach to Mailbox

The customer is responsible for keeping the approach to his or her mailbox clear to facilitate delivery. Where the approach to the mail receptacle located at the curb is temporarily blocked by a parked vehicle during normal delivery hours for the area, or snow or ice hampers the approach to the mailbox, the carrier normally dismounts to make delivery. If the carrier continually experiences a problem in serving curbline boxes and where the customer is able to control on-street parking in front of his or her mailbox but does not take prompt corrective action after being properly notified, the postmaster may, with the approval of the district manager, withdraw delivery service.​

 

[Squirlz]

In the US? They're supposed to get out of the vehicle and make a delivery. If the blockage isn't under the control (i.e. someone else's car) of the customer, they can't simply refuse a delivery. Even then, there has to be a warning.

https://www.nalc.org/news/the-postal-record/2011/october-2011/document/officers-1011_Layout-1-13.pdf

It seems that some post offices have a policy of skipping delivery to mailboxes when they are blocked by a car, a trash can or some other obstruction. Carriers are told to bring the mail back and mark it as “box blocked” or something similar. The mail is then reattempted the following day. Often, mail will go undelivered to a box for several days until the obstruction is removed. This practice is wrong and should be stopped.

Postal regulations require that carriers dismount to deliver to a box that is temporarily blocked. Postal Operations Manual 632.14 states:

The customer is responsible for keeping the approach to his or her mailbox clear to facilitate delivery. Where the approach to the mail receptacle located at the curb is temporarily blocked by a parked vehicle during normal delivery hours for the area, or snow or ice hampers the approach to the mailbox, the carrier normally dismounts to make delivery. If the carrier continually experiences a problem in serving curbline boxes and where the customer is able to control on-street parking in front of his or her mailbox but does not take prompt corrective action after being properly notified, the postmaster may, with the approval of the district manager, withdraw delivery service. (Emphasis supplied.)​

The above regulation makes it clear that if a box is temporarily blocked, the carrier must dismount to deliver the mail. The USPS Standard Training Program for City Letter Carriers (p 16.2.3) instructs: “If the approach to the mailbox is blocked, delivery must be attempted by dismounting where it is safe to do so.” This applies whether the box is blocked by a vehicle, a trash can or even snow or ice.

Delivery can only be withheld if the problem is continual.
Note: Continual means repeated, not intermittent or occasional. Additionally, the customer must also have some control or ability to do something about the obstruction. In most places, on-street parking is not under the control of the resident/patron, unless it happens to be his/her own vehicle that is blocking the box. Even if it’s the customer’s vehicle, delivery can only be withheld if the customer fails to remove the obstruction after being properly notified and only if the postmaster has the approval of the district manager.

Where this policy exists, NALC branches should request, either by letter or through a labor-management meeting, that management change the local policy to conform to POM 632.14. If they refuse, a grievance should be filed. Management may try to argue past practice claiming, “We’ve had this policy for years.” As we have mentioned previously, a past practice cannot override clear contract language. It doesn’t matter how long it was done that way; if it’s against postal regulations, it must cease.

Some carriers may not be happy about this, as they consider it a hassle having to park the vehicle and dismount to make the delivery. As with the other similar scenarios, point out to these carriers that they will get paid for each second it takes to dismount to make a delivery. As letter carriers, we work for a service-oriented company. All we have to sell is our service.

Dismounting to make such deliveries is not only required by regulation, it provides good service to our customers. In most instances, customers cannot control the on-street parking in front of their mailboxes, nor can they control where the garbage collectors leave their trash cans. So why should your customers be denied their mail because of something someone else did that they have no control over?

Think about how you feel when you are the recipient of poor customer service, especially when it would only take a few seconds to correct. Is that how you want your patrons to feel about you and the Postal Service? Now, think about a time when you were a customer and some employee went out of their way to help you. How did that make you feel about the company and the employee that was assisting you? That is how we want our customers to feel about letter carriers and about the Postal Service. It’s just good common sense. Think of it as preserving your job, one delivery at a time. And besides that, it’s the decent thing to do.​

There's Google, and then there is real life.

 

[bcla]

We live in a suburban area with nice sidewalks but the mail carrier refuses to get out of their vehicle. They are not the easiest people to deal with. They also have problems getting the mail in the right mailbox. We joke that it is a success if they just get the mail on the right street no matter which box. I once got called into a disciplinary situation because the carrier refused to deliver a box because they said it was too big. They left a note that I would have to come to the post office and when I got there the guy in charge was livid. I told him I did not mind but he said carriers cannot refuse to deliver a package if the sending post office accepts the package. After that I thought I would be lucky to ever get mail again.

They sound like real gems. It certainly sounds like they don't care about the rules or make up their own.

 

[traviesojmt]

Our mail carrier (Texas) will drive on by if there is a car parked in front of the mailbox. We actually park in our driveway which is located behind the house so we rarely park in front of our house. Funny story though, on the day we moved into the house, my husband parked a UHaul in the front to unload right onto the sidewalk. The mailman fussed at my husband for blocking the mailbox. Lol. My husband was a bit annoyed that the mailman could physically see him carrying in heavy items but apparently wanted him to move the truck and carry it much further so he could deliver mail.
What the regulations say and what really happens does not have to be the same. Our mail carrier will definitely skip your house if a car is parked in front of the mailbox.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

There's Google, and then there is real life.

Haha so much this! I certainly would not get into it with my mail carrier over "the rules."

 

[pryncess527]

Violation of Postal Operations Manual 632.14. . .

And, in seeming contradiction to that, I found this:

Location
Customers must place mailboxes on motorized city, rural, and contract delivery service routes so a carrier can safely and conveniently serve them without leaving his or her vehicle. The mailboxes must be on the right-hand side of the road in the carrier’s travel direction in all cases where traffic conditions make it dangerous for the carrier to drive to the left to reach the mailboxes, or where doing so would constitute a violation of traffic laws and regulations. Postal Operations Manual (POM) 632.6 specifies postal regulations regarding locations for apartment houses and other multiple unit dwellings. On new rural and contract delivery service routes, all mailboxes must be on the right-hand side of the road in the direction of the route line of travel. Mailbox placement must conform with state laws and highway regulations. City motorized, rural, and highway contract box delivery route carriers are subject to the same traffic laws and regulations as other motorists. Customers must remove obstructions, including vehicles, trash cans, and snow, that impede safe and efficient delivery. Except when a mailbox is temporarily blocked, carriers must have access to the mailbox without leaving the vehicle unless authorized to dismount.

https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2012/pb22336/html/info_001.htm

There seems to be a contraction between what is posted by USPS and what was posted by the National Association of Letter Carriers in 2011

Fun with Google.

 

[bcla]

There's Google, and then there is real life.

Exactly what can anyone do when there's a vehicle parked in front of a mailbox? Maybe request that the city or county set up a red or white curb in front of each and every mailbox to facilitate mail delivery?

At least in my neighborhood, the carriers get out of their vehicles and off their butts. They sometimes even smile when they see people. I own a townhouse and all of the mailboxes are next to each front door. It just seems really odd that a postal carrier won't do something as basic as get out of a vehicle to deliver mail.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

If you really want to see some fireworks, just show up in Boston, NYC, Phily, Chicago, etc. after a big snowstorm. People will spend hours digging out "their spot". When someone else tries to park there it can get ugly in a hurry.

It doesn't even have to be a big city. People are ruthless. Sad thing is... All someone has to do is ask my husband if he'll clear them a spot (not very many snowblowers on our little street) and he does it with no problem, it takes 15 minutes. It's the people too lazy to clear one for themself or ask for help that are annoying.

 

[hereyago]

If you really want to see some fireworks, just show up in Boston, NYC, Phily, Chicago, etc. after a big snowstorm. People will spend hours digging out "their spot". When someone else tries to park there it can get ugly in a hurry.

These places make me laugh. You have to dig your car out if you want or need to leave. It isnt "your" spot because you dug your car out. That reaks of entitlement.

 

[bcla]

And, in seeming contradiction to that, I found this:

Location
Customers must place mailboxes on motorized city, rural, and contract delivery service routes so a carrier can safely and conveniently serve them without leaving his or her vehicle. The mailboxes must be on the right-hand side of the road in the carrier’s travel direction in all cases where traffic conditions make it dangerous for the carrier to drive to the left to reach the mailboxes, or where doing so would constitute a violation of traffic laws and regulations. Postal Operations Manual (POM) 632.6 specifies postal regulations regarding locations for apartment houses and other multiple unit dwellings. On new rural and contract delivery service routes, all mailboxes must be on the right-hand side of the road in the direction of the route line of travel. Mailbox placement must conform with state laws and highway regulations. City motorized, rural, and highway contract box delivery route carriers are subject to the same traffic laws and regulations as other motorists. Customers must remove obstructions, including vehicles, trash cans, and snow, that impede safe and efficient delivery. Except when a mailbox is temporarily blocked, carriers must have access to the mailbox without leaving the vehicle unless authorized to dismount.

https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2012/pb22336/html/info_001.htm

There seems to be a contraction between what is posted by USPS and what is posted by the National Association of Letter Carriers

Fun with Google.

It's in the Postal Operations Manual. Even what you quote says there's an exception when a box is "temporarily blocked". I'm pretty sure that something in front of a mailbox other than the customer's vehicle qualifies.

 

[asta]

It's in the Postal Operations Manual. Even what you quote says there's an exception when a box is "temporarily blocked". I'm pretty sure that something in front of a mailbox other than the customer's vehicle qualifies.

I am just guessing here but I wonder if their are different rules for rural delivery people vs city or suburban. I consider that I live in the suburbs but I think the post office classifies us as rural. I know that for many of the years I have lived here the person delivering the mail did so from their own car. I always thought they worked under contract as opposed to being a postal employee.

 

[hereyago]

Our cul de sac has maybe 3 out of 12 actual mailboxes next to the street the rest are in the kind on the house. So they have to get out of the vehicle and hoof it. If it snows (and we are not a big snow area) they don't come. It took forever for us to get the most recent mail reject to pick up the outgoing mail.

 

[manning]

One word description....cuckoo

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

I got curious about this thing about where a mailbox is placed, and I can't find anything that says mail won't be delivered if a vehicle is blocking a box. They say that a box can be attached to a house, but the carrier needs to be able to "reach it easily". They also have standards for mail slots, which most homes have in my neighborhood.

https://www.usps.com/manage/mailboxes.htm

If you are attaching the box to your house, make sure the postal carrier can reach it easily from your sidewalk, steps, or porch.​

Well, that's nice and all, but here, the mail carriers avoid getting out of their cars. If you're on a busy street, they won't even get out to deliver a package, as they are blocking a driving lane to deliver as it is. They just leave a notice for you to pick it up at the post office. They will get out at my house (as we're in a cul-de-sac) to deliver packages but only packages; they will not deliver the mail outside the mailbox.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

what you are doing is your legal right, but in my experience in the suburbs, "custom" is that you do not regularly park in front of another persons house without permission. While I doubt I would behave as your neighbor did, I also think you are in the wrong and should not rely on parking in front of someone else's house on a regular basis.

I haven't even read all the replies but this is a huge one for me.

As you mentioned in your reply later on I also live in a cul-de-sac heavy neighborhood (my house is on the curve of a cul-de-sac).

We had some pretty major issues with the neighbor across the street (the one that had previous issues with neighbors before moving into our neighborhood that I mentioned in the "what do your neighbors hate the most" thread) because where you see that white car is right by the mailbox too.

Here's what our issue had been:



That house you see across the street....it's not the house where all 3 cars that are parked on the street belong to....

This is the house (on the left) where all 3 of those cars belong to (where you see a blue object on the driveway):


All of the neighbors on the curve of the cul-de-sac hate how they park their cars. They have a 3 car garage and ample driveway space--they don't even have a sidewalk to deal with! And yet their daughter's live-in bf parked on the street, the son and his g/f parked on the street. No one can figure out why they don't park the cars in their driveway. Where that black car is parked isn't really enough room either..it's where the storm drain is located. They also don't move their cars when it comes time for predicted snow....that messes with a) the big-ish plow that only makes 1 pass anyways because it's a cul-de-sac and b) the trucks with the plows hitched on that make multiple passes because they can't effectively plow (though the last couple of years aren't good examples as we've had such little snow). Also note that where they parked was no where near their actual house.

I'm not about to tell you you can't park out in front of your own house it's just it would be a good neighborly thing to ask to park your guests/routinely at the house cars in front of my house..and I'm not saying that one random time you had someone over. I'm meaning the more routine times. I ask all of my guests to please park in my driveway and any time they haven't been able to they still park in front of my house and not other neighbor's homes.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In most suburban areas, mail carriers deliver mail from vehicles to mailboxes on the street. If those mailboxes are blocked, they can't get to them with their vehicles.

Yeah that's how it is here. The times that the white car (see my other post) parked where the mail boxes are they had no problem blocking that car in (they would park at an angle so that car couldn't even back out and go around the mail vehicle) but thankfully they still delivered the mail.

My mom's neighborhood is completely different because her mailbox is attached to her house so the mail person just parks their vehicle somewhere and makes their rounds.

 

[hereyago]

With the above pics: for me, blocking the neighbors trash can (was this pic an actual trash day or had neighbor delayed taking trash can back from street? )
If it was actual trash day and camaro blocked trash man from picking up (assuming trash man has truck with arms that reach out and dump trash) I would honestly ask 1 time for camaro owner not to block my trash can , next time trash would go on it,lol.

Maybe their cars leak and home owner doest want leakage on driveway?

 

[bcla]

Wow. You guys must've have some monumentally soft letter carriers. In San Francisco, I've seen carriers going up and down hills on foot.

I wonder if there's any room to add "except when I won't walk 10 feet" to the mailbox.

 

[Poohlove]

Where I work there are 3 mailboxes on a post, 1 for the office and 2 for the rental properties we have. We have 3 separate letter carriers. The carrier for the office will not deliver our mail if the path to the mailbox is obstructed and she can't reach the box from her mail jeep.

At my house the carrier parks on the next block over and gets out and walks door to door.