Need advice... custody problems in Florida

[torinsmom]

She owes him notice: "Billy says he's not coming." but I don't see how her parenting obligation extends to explaining why Billy doesn't want to see Dad. It is in the child's best interests for Mom to allow Dad access and contact and then to get out of the way and let them sort out their relationship without interference.

Dad isn't some random guy, he's a parent. As a parent he has the right to manage his own issues with his son. For Mom to get too heavily involved in explaining things robs Dad of one of his limited opportunities to be a parent. I would say that beyong telling him not to be waiting at the airport Mom not only has no responsibility to get involved, maybe she has no right.

I don't refuse to speak to my kid's dad but I certainly arrange my life so I do it as little as possible. It's one of the best things about not being Mrs. Him. When I stopped taking responsibility for his relationship with our son my life got a lot nicer and the two of them came to a peaceful resolution. Best thing I could do was to butt out.

I could have written this. My ex got remarried and that lasted less than a year. They have a child together(2 years old) as well. I keep trying to tell that ex-wife to just grin and bear it, and say a lot of prayers when her DD is with him. Arguing with him just makes things worse. The wounds are still fairly fresh for her though. I interact with my ex as little as possible. I'm wondering if he's gonna marry this new one and have another kid. I don't think I can manage free counseling for another one

I will say that if this mom is not helping the dad connect with his son to discuss why he won't come, that is a problem. I would answer the phone, say "Hold on", and pass the phone to the son. Now, she can't make him talk, but she can make sure he knows that if he wants to be a "man" and make his own decision, he needs to be a "man" and deal with the fall out.

To the stepmom--You never elaborated on what you said about his ADD being fine when he's with you guys. Has he ever been to school in NJ? The only time I ever see my DS's ADD interfere with his functioning is when he is at school. And yes, I think requiring a child to spend some time outdoors is a great idea, but I don't think he should have to be outside everytime you guys are. He is probably going through or about to go through puberty, and he needs some alone time. My DS loves his little sister, but he asked his dad to put a lock on his door, so he can have some privacy. His dad has done that.

 

[Mkrop]

I could have written this. My ex got remarried and that lasted less than a year. They have a child together(2 years old) as well. I keep trying to tell that ex-wife to just grin and bear it, and say a lot of prayers when her DD is with him. Arguing with him just makes things worse. The wounds are still fairly fresh for her though. I interact with my ex as little as possible. I'm wondering if he's gonna marry this new one and have another kid. I don't think I can manage free counseling for another one

I will say that if this mom is not helping the dad connect with his son to discuss why he won't come, that is a problem. I would answer the phone, say "Hold on", and pass the phone to the son. Now, she can't make him talk, but she can make sure he knows that if he wants to be a "man" and make his own decision, he needs to be a "man" and deal with the fall out.
To the stepmom--You never elaborated on what you said about his ADD being fine when he's with you guys. Has he ever been to school in NJ? The only time I ever see my DS's ADD interfere with his functioning is when he is at school. And yes, I think requiring a child to spend some time outdoors is a great idea, but I don't think he should have to be outside everytime you guys are. He is probably going through or about to go through puberty, and he needs some alone time. My DS loves his little sister, but he asked his dad to put a lock on his door, so he can have some privacy. His dad has done that.

Exactly I can see keeping the communication to a minimum but at these younger ages kids need help in facilitating their thoughts. If a child wanted to quit a sport you may make him tell the coach himself but I am sure you would help him formulate what to say. And I am not saying put words in his mouth, but make sure the communication and message are being relayed.

 

[penn19]

I wish I could give you hope but having lived through this exact situation I can honestly say unless the boy changes his mind you are sunk. My husband's ex reconnected with her high school boyfriend and then left him taking their three small children with her. They lived in Pennsylvania. The boyfriend was in the Navy stationed in California. My husband was supposed to have custody in the summer and every other holiday. The boys came in the summer for the first few years (mainly because their mom worked and she would have needed daycare for them). They moved all over the place. Finally they got stationed in Korea. My husband went to a lawyer to try and stop that and she said judges were loathe to restrict the families of military members. We didn't see them for two years. When they finally came back, they were teens. They decided their summers were too busy. They usually came at Christmas to collect their gifts. My husband never missed a single child support payment. He called and wrote letters with very little response back.

They are grown up now, but we have very little to do with them. Our hearts and door are always open. They just grew up without us. It still hurts my husband to the core how this all played out. We spent thousands of dollars on attorney fees and basically lost every time.

To the people saying they wouldn't force the child to go how would you feel if you only saw your child a few weeks a year? How would you feel if on top of that you paid a significant portion of your income to someone else to raise your child without your input or participation? To me that is a travesty. The parent-child relationship is so much more important than sports or summer camps.

This. And in another 10 or 20 years come back to the DIS and the kid will be posting how he never had anything to do with his Dad blah blah.
I think unless the Dad was a raging lunatic, drug issues, abuse etc....the boy should be encouraged to spend the summer with him. I think its sad that the mom (and other moms on this board) are ok with just saying oh well he doesn't want to see his dad. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot.

 

[bunny]

With those rules I wouldn't have wanted to leave all my friends for the entire summer either at 11. Sounds like you treat him like a 5 year old. Mealtime "must be eaten to your satisfaction" seriously, I don't understand why people put so much control over food. He has to go outside when you go outside?? I'm sorry, but that's just nuts..

Expecting him to come for the entire summer is just ridiculous. My girls enjoy seeing their dad in the summer, but they never wanted to go for more than 4-5 weeks at a time because they missed too much of the summer that way.

It isn't the custodial parent's place to dictate the rules of the noncustodial parents household. The same as the custodial parent would not want the noncustodial doing that. At 11 kids start to rebel. I know there are plenty of rules I have that my tween doesn't care for. But they're my rules and since he doesn't have anywhere else to go he follows them. As for the OP's stepson he has decided to stay with his mom instead of his dad because of them. Why does he get that choice?

Also it really makes me upset when someone says expecting a child to stay with their parent for the entire summer is ridiculous. I think it is ridiculous that the custodial parent expects the child to stay with them for the entire school year. Why does one parent get 80% of the time and the other only 20%? You actually think wanting to spend 20% of your child's life with them is crazy. Within a couple years after graduating high school your child will lose contact with most of their friends, but their dad with be there for them for the rest of their lives.

To the OP, I think your friend's husband should sue for primary custody since the mom is not doing her part in faciliating the relationship. Let her only see him for two months in the summer. Let her send you child support money every month for a child she never sees and has no say in how he is raised.

 

[torinsmom]

It isn't the custodial parent's place to dictate the rules of the noncustodial parents household. The same as the custodial parent would not want the noncustodial doing that. At 11 kids start to rebel. I know there are plenty of rules I have that my tween doesn't care for. But they're my rules and since he doesn't have anywhere else to go he follows them. As for the OP's stepson he has decided to stay with his mom instead of his dad because of them. Why does he get that choice?

Also it really makes me upset when someone says expecting a child to stay with their parent for the entire summer is ridiculous. I think it is ridiculous that the custodial parent expects the child to stay with them for the entire school year. Why does one parent get 80% of the time and the other only 20%? You actually think wanting to spend 20% of your child's life with them is crazy. Within a couple years after graduating high school your child will lose contact with most of their friends, but their dad with be there for them for the rest of their lives.

To the OP, I think your friend's husband should sue for primary custody since the mom is not doing her part in faciliating the relationship. Let her only see him for two months in the summer. Let her send you child support money every month for a child she never sees and has no say in how he is raised.

Ummm... the custodial parent did not decide this; the courts did. And most dads get more time than this, but this dad moved away from the mom and son. You can't expect the kid to spend 50% time at each house when they are over 1000 miles apart. Like I said before, if the mom is preventing communication, that needs to be dealt with.

 

[Mama Who]

Exactly I can see keeping the communication to a minimum but at these younger ages kids need help in facilitating their thoughts. If a child wanted to quit a sport you may make him tell the coach himself but I am sure you would help him formulate what to say. And I am not saying put words in his mouth, but make sure the communication and message are being relayed.

The difference is that a coach is an external entity. S/he is not part of the family and as an outsider it is appropriate for mom to help the child deal with the issue. Dad is, theoretically, an equal parent. Even if he's non-custodial, I bet he wants to be considered "just as much a parent" and as such, mom helping "formulate" the conversation is intrusive.

In an intact family would you recommend that mom do this? Because I gotta tell you, if I did this to my husband he'd be really insulted. It sets a tone of us v. them in which Mom and Jr. have to collaborate to handle Dad who is outside and other. Even if it is well intentioned it can be harmful to the idea that Dad is still a parent.

 

[MichelleVW]

It isn't the custodial parent's place to dictate the rules of the noncustodial parents household. The same as the custodial parent would not want the noncustodial doing that. At 11 kids start to rebel. I know there are plenty of rules I have that my tween doesn't care for. But they're my rules and since he doesn't have anywhere else to go he follows them. As for the OP's stepson he has decided to stay with his mom instead of his dad because of them. Why does he get that choice?

Also it really makes me upset when someone says expecting a child to stay with their parent for the entire summer is ridiculous. I think it is ridiculous that the custodial parent expects the child to stay with them for the entire school year. Why does one parent get 80% of the time and the other only 20%? You actually think wanting to spend 20% of your child's life with them is crazy. Within a couple years after graduating high school your child will lose contact with most of their friends, but their dad with be there for them for the rest of their lives.

To the OP, I think your friend's husband should sue for primary custody since the mom is not doing her part in faciliating the relationship. Let her only see him for two months in the summer. Let her send you child support money every month for a child she never sees and has no say in how he is raised.

Sorry, you may think it's ridiculous, but as the mom to kids who went away every summer to see their dad since they were in middle school, I'm telling you the way it is. Kids don't want to go that long.


These days kids don't lose track of so many friends when they graduate. I have one in college and one just starting college and being military we moved A LOT. They often visit their friends in other states and talk to them pretty much daily...so friends do stick with you just like your dad.


Sue for custody?? Omg...the kid doesn't want to go for the summer...I'm sure he would just be a joy to live with if you forced a move. Not that I think the dad has a chance in heck to win. Unless the mother's home is a crack house courts don't like to move kids out of a decent home and especially out of state.

 

[horseshowmom]

Finally they got stationed in Korea. My husband went to a lawyer to try and stop that and she said judges were loathe to restrict the families of military members. We didn't see them for two years. When they finally came back, they were teens. They decided their summers were too busy. They usually came at Christmas to collect their gifts. My husband never missed a single child support payment. He called and wrote letters with very little response back.

They are grown up now, but we have very little to do with them. Our hearts and door are always open. They just grew up without us. It still hurts my husband to the core how this all played out. We spent thousands of dollars on attorney fees and basically lost every time.

To the people saying they wouldn't force the child to go how would you feel if you only saw your child a few weeks a year? How would you feel if on top of that you paid a significant portion of your income to someone else to raise your child without your input or participation? To me that is a travesty. The parent-child relationship is so much more important than sports or summer camps.

While I support our military 100%, your husband's children certainly shouldn't fall under that rule. I can understand if it were the soldier's biological child, but your husband, as the father, should certainly come first in that equation IMHO.

Because she created this child with dad. She signed custody agreements with dad. It is her obligation as his parent to make sure the child is where it says he is going to be or if not then she owes the other parent some explanation.

If she feels that it is in the child's best interest to stay in FL, then she should pick up the darn phone and explain that.

I agree. The child is 11 not 17. That makes a difference.

And in another 10 or 20 years come back to the DIS and the kid will be posting how he never had anything to do with his Dad blah blah.
I think unless the Dad was a raging lunatic, drug issues, abuse etc....the boy should be encouraged to spend the summer with him. I think its sad that the mom (and other moms on this board) are ok with just saying oh well he doesn't want to see his dad. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot.

That's what I was thinking...

Also it really makes me upset when someone says expecting a child to stay with their parent for the entire summer is ridiculous. I think it is ridiculous that the custodial parent expects the child to stay with them for the entire school year. Why does one parent get 80% of the time and the other only 20%? You actually think wanting to spend 20% of your child's life with them is crazy. Within a couple years after graduating high school your child will lose contact with most of their friends, but their dad with be there for them for the rest of their lives.

To the OP, I think your friend's husband should sue for primary custody since the mom is not doing her part in faciliating the relationship. Let her only see him for two months in the summer. Let her send you child support money every month for a child she never sees and has no say in how he is raised.

I understand what you're saying. The non-custodial parent is expected to pay child support for their child because, after all, he/she is their child, and I agree with that completely. Why isn't having the child spend time with the other parent just as important as the child support because, after all, he/she is their child?

Sorry, you may think it's ridiculous, but as the mom to kids who went away every summer to see their dad since they were in middle school, I'm telling you the way it is. Kids don't want to go that long.

These days kids don't lose track of so many friends when they graduate. I have one in college and one just starting college and being military we moved A LOT. They often visit their friends in other states and talk to them pretty much daily...so friends do stick with you just like your dad.

Sue for custody?? Omg...the kid doesn't want to go for the summer...I'm sure he would just be a joy to live with if you forced a move. Not that I think the dad has a chance in heck to win. Unless the mother's home is a crack house courts don't like to move kids out of a decent home and especially out of state.

While I can't agree that a friend and a father should have the same weight in a child's life, I do agree that changing custody is difficult. OTOH, courts are taking parental alienation more and more seriously these days.

 

[S. C.]

Ummm... the custodial parent did not decide this; the courts did. And most dads get more time than this, but this dad moved away from the mom and son. You can't expect the kid to spend 50% time at each house when they are over 1000 miles apart. Like I said before, if the mom is preventing communication, that needs to be dealt with.

Exactly why I am against the custodial parent moving more than 50 miles away from the non - custodial parent. Not sure 50/50 split living is best for the child but at least non - custodial parent and children could spend more time together, be at school functions etc.

There is 50/50 custody without 50/50 living arrangements.

 

[MichelleVW]

While I can't agree that a friend and a father should have the same weight in a child's life, I do agree that changing custody is difficult. OTOH, courts are taking parental alienation more and more seriously these days.

In this case, I just can't see the father having a chance. First if you went to court it would take thousands and thousands of dollars, plus by the time you got there the kid will be even older and the courts will listen to where he wants to live.

I'm sure proving parental alienation is pretty hard. My ex used to try and say I "poisoned" the children against him blah blah blah. Uh no....they just enjoyed the life they had with me and didn't want to go away all summer long.

 

[allison443]

Also it really makes me upset when someone says expecting a child to stay with their parent for the entire summer is ridiculous. I think it is ridiculous that the custodial parent expects the child to stay with them for the entire school year. Why does one parent get 80% of the time and the other only 20%?

Isn't that usually when the parents don't live close to each other? If the parents live close enough, they could have shared custody during the week and both get 50% of the time, or at least more of an equal percentage. I know plenty of families that do this.

I was wondering if parents who only get to see their kids in the summer are able to go visit their kid at other times of the year? Like if their kid is on a sports team, maybe go visit and see one of their games? Or if the kid is in a play, concert, etc. I can't imagine missing out on all those things in my kids' lives. It's definitely a difficult situation.

 

[horseshowmom]

In this case, I just can't see the father having a chance. First if you went to court it would take thousands and thousands of dollars, plus by the time you got there the kid will be even older and the courts will listen to where he wants to live.

I'm sure proving parental alienation is pretty hard. My ex used to try and say I "poisoned" the children against him blah blah blah. Uh no....they just enjoyed the life they had with me and didn't want to go away all summer long.

I agree with you regarding the father's chances. Since his finances sound stretched at this point, he probably doesn't have the money to fund what it would cost. Shoot, his ex could even use the child support he's never failed to send to fund her costs. I just don't think it's right that on one hand he'd better not miss his child support (and I do think he should be responsible for that) but his visitation is too bad so sad.

I have to wonder (not directed at you MichelleVW - more as a general thing ) how much it would change things if the custodial parent didn't get their child support if the child chose not to go see the non-custodial parent - just thinking out loud as the devil's advocate.

 

[MichelleVW]

Isn't that usually when the parents don't live close to each other? If the parents live close enough, they could have shared custody during the week and both get 50% of the time, or at least more of an equal percentage. I know plenty of families that do this.

I was wondering if parents who only get to see their kids in the summer are able to go visit their kid at other times of the year? Like if their kid is on a sports team, maybe go visit and see one of their games? Or if the kid is in a play, concert, etc. I can't imagine missing out on all those things in my kids' lives. It's definitely a difficult situation.

Ugh...we did the 50% thing for about a year and honestly the kids hated moving back and forth.

 

[horseshowmom]

Ugh...we did the 50% thing for about a year and honestly the kids hated moving back and forth.

I agree. That just puts too much confusion and instability in the child's life. While it would be great in theory for maintaining the parental relationships, I can't see it working well in reality.

 

[allison443]

Ugh...we did the 50% thing for about a year and honestly the kids hated moving back and forth.

Oh I agree, it can be a hassle for the kids. So is there no good solution for custody when parents divorce? What would you consider ideal in a divorce situation?

 

[jodifla]

It always amazes me when parents get divorced then are upset when the child doesn't want to play along with whatever rules are written out by a bunch of lawyers about their lives.

The parents broke the ultimate promise to their children by getting divorced. In my view, you pretty much lose parental moral authority at that point.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I agree with you regarding the father's chances. Since his finances sound stretched at this point, he probably doesn't have the money to fund what it would cost. Shoot, his ex could even use the child support he's never failed to send to fund her costs. I just don't think it's right that on one hand he'd better not miss his child support (and I do think he should be responsible for that) but his visitation is too bad so sad.

I have to wonder (not directed at you MichelleVW - more as a general thing ) how much it would change things if the custodial parent didn't get their child support if the child chose not to go see the non-custodial parent - just thinking out loud as the devil's advocate.

Sadly, I think in many cases, you'd have non-custodial parents mistreating kids in hopes that they refused to come back, putting custodial parents in truly difficult positions.

I had a kid in my class once whose custody order required Dad to continue to pay for the private school that the child had been enrolled in during their marriage. The father directly sabotaged the kid, in hopes that they'd be expelled.

 

[MichelleVW]

I agree. That just puts too much confusion and instability in the child's life. While it would be great in theory for maintaining the parental relationships, I can't see it working well in reality.

Trust me it was awful. Everything they needed was always at the other house and it was just a major hassle.

Oh I agree, it can be a hassle for the kids. So is there no good solution for custody when parents divorce? What would you consider ideal in a divorce situation?

Mine was great after my ex husband moved out of the state! Honestly, my girls love their dad, but my ex was very bitter about the divorce and us living in the same area was toxic.

I know non custodial parents don't want to hear it, but kids need a stable house to live in. Yes, that means just "visiting" the other parent, but otherwise they feel like nomads. For the record, I was willing to allow my oldest to live with her dad her senior year rather than have to move yet again, but it never came to pass because dad had to move too. So, I was willing to sacrifice seeing her every day for her well being, it's all for the well being of the child...not the parent.

 

[Mama Who]

I agree with you regarding the father's chances. Since his finances sound stretched at this point, he probably doesn't have the money to fund what it would cost. Shoot, his ex could even use the child support he's never failed to send to fund her costs. I just don't think it's right that on one hand he'd better not miss his child support (and I do think he should be responsible for that) but his visitation is too bad so sad.

I have to wonder (not directed at you MichelleVW - more as a general thing ) how much it would change things if the custodial parent didn't get their child support if the child chose not to go see the non-custodial parent - just thinking out loud as the devil's advocate.

If My kid's dad ever tried to tie support to visitation? I'd become that much LESS invested in him seeing the kid. A "man" (and I use that word loosely) who would refuse to financially support his child in order to blackmail the child into visiting is not someone I would feel a need to have my kid spend time with. We'd be better off without such a person or his money. Thank goodness he's too good a man for that!

Child support is 100% in the control of the parent. Visitation actually involves buy in from the child as well. Today's children are savvy enough to know that at a certain age a judge will side with them. Had my son's dad attempted to force the issue when things were tense he wouldn't be seeing him at ALL anymore because he'd have made the kid that angry.

Trying to tie the basic welfare of a kid to visitation is certainly the sort of thing the devil would advocate. We agree on that much.

 

[horseshowmom]

Sadly, I think in many cases, you'd have non-custodial parents mistreating kids in hopes that they refused to come back, putting custodial parents in truly difficult positions.

I had a kid in my class once whose custody order required Dad to continue to pay for the private school that the child had been enrolled in during their marriage. The father directly sabotaged the kid, in hopes that they'd be expelled.

While that could happen, there are many responsible fathers who wouldn't fall under that description at all but who still have a difficult time getting their visitation. Off the top of my head, I can think of several.

If My kid's dad ever tried to tie support to visitation? I'd become that much LESS invested in him seeing the kid.

We weren't discussing custodial parents who were invested in the custodial parents visitation. We were discussing those who weren't.

A "man" (and I use that word loosely) who would refuse to financially support his child in order to blackmail the child into visiting is not someone I would feel a need to have my kid spend time with. We'd be better off without such a person or his money. Thank goodness he's too good a man for that!

But that wasn't the point I made. There are custodial parents, sadly quite a few - I didn't say the majority - who don't have a problem with their children not going to see the non-custodial parent. Unfortunately, the non-custodial parent doesn't have the option of not having their child spend time with the custodial parent who doesn't see their visitation as important.

Also, I said nothing about blackmailing a child. What I said was that I wondered how much more interested the custodial parent would be in the visitation if they lost child support if the child didn't visit. So, actually, that would mean that the custodial parent would be the one putting money first since they didn't see the visitation as being important until child support was a part of it. Just a thought...

Child support is 100% in the control of the parent. Visitation actually involves buy in from the child as well. Today's children are savvy enough to know that at a certain age a judge will side with them. Had my son's dad attempted to force the issue when things were tense he wouldn't be seeing him at ALL anymore because he'd have made the kid that angry.

You know, my child didn't always want to brush her teeth or come home at the time I prescribed or a lot of other things. As a parent, it was my responsibility to direct her in the way that was in her own best interest. Under no circumstances would I side with my child in going to court to keep from seeing her father (assuming that the parent is a good parent). I cannot for the life of me see how anybody can think it's not in a child's best interest to be involved with both parents.

Trying to tie the basic welfare of a kid to visitation is certainly the sort of thing the devil would advocate. We agree on that much.

Again, not what I said. See above...