My argument against DVC

[crazywig]

If we find that we're using more points as our family grows, we'll add on in the future, but for now, we're perfectly happy with our 160 points per year (= approx $600 in dues/year).

This is what we've done, the staggered approach to what we would eventually need. We bought in '03, our only child was 1yr old and we bought 170pts. We bought what we could with cash. Two years later we added on 50pts more as we had another child and wanted to move up to staying in 1br villas all the time.

Now that the oldest is 7 (where does the time go!) and the younger is nearly 5 we have added on more points so that we can start staying in 2br villas. Our kids are different sexes and who knows how long we can keep them on the pullout of the 1br . Okay I admit the good BLT incentive was another factor

 

[crisi]

We could have paid cash for our last add-on but financed it anyway. Better to keep ourselves liquid.
.....
The key is really making sure that adding the DVC to the budget won't tighten things to the point that it's a struggle to pay for park tickets and airfare when the time comes.

Not sure I completely agree - but I'm very financially conservative.

I think taking out a loan to keep yourself liquid is a fine decision. But I think there is an important difference between "I really don't want to cash out my assets right now and buy DVC" and "I'm spending money I haven't earned yet to buy DVC - but don't worry, we can afford the payments and still afford park tickets" The second is risky - as quite a few people who have been put in the position of having to sell contracts because they lost income this year have found out.

 

[HGD24]

This is what we've done, the staggered approach to what we would eventually need. We bought in '03, our only child was 1yr old and we bought 170pts. We bought what we could with cash. Two years later we added on 50pts more as we had another child and wanted to move up to staying in 1br villas all the time.

Now that the oldest is 7 (where does the time go!) and the younger is nearly 5 we have added on more points so that we can start staying in 2br villas. Our kids are different sexes and who knows how long we can keep them on the pullout of the 1br . Okay I admit the good BLT incentive was another factor

We started out staying in 1br's and we didn't even have a child at that point! We still had plenty of points left over after each 1br stay.

 

[ToddyLu]

Maybe I am just stupid. Dh and I are both professionals, married 15 years and have no children. There is no way on this beautiful earth that I would be able to afford to stay in a Studio AKV with a SV this year without our new points. Paying for that cash is $3600 for our nine night trip. No way we could ever afford or have need of a vacation home somewhere. We are hard workers who knew this was a frivolous venture going in....just like my Kraftmaid kitchen cabinets and DH's Hummer H3. Yet we drive, we cook, we stay at WDW every year because that is who we are. We own a modest home. The morning after Katrina when I came back home to find nothing below 5 feet salvagable I decided things don't matter much. DH is a firefighter and becasue of his experiences during that horrific time I told him to get any car he wanted...we would handle it. We had flood insurance I bought great cabinets and granite (over built for my neighborhood probably) but our family and jobs are here. So DVC was my lifetime luxury, my Rolex if you will.....I listen to Disney music every day, wear a Mickey ring and stay on the Dis boards far more than I should......Disney is our "happy place" were we go once a year to relax and heal from whatever. It is that important to us, worth every penny right now...we enjoy just thinking about our first DVC trip in October.

I know the economy is bad and many people are hurting now but "crap happens" and I don't sweat it out. WE pay our bills, live the American Dream modestly and have a terrific time enjoying this one special vacation place.
I am actually a conservative person but you can't take it with you and it doesn't matter when you are gone.

There.. there it is from the emotional DVC purchaser who wishes every DVCer and DISser "happy trips" always. Sorry just thought this thread need a little joy factor.

 

[theww228]

I spent dozens of hours running the DVC numbers before we purchased. My DW would laugh because I would have 3 or 4 spreadsheets on the computer at one time analyzing the "value". What I finally used as my decision maker was the following:

$73/point paid
2042 - 2010 = 32 years of DVC
$73/32 years = $2.28 per point per year
MF at VWL = $5.04/point
Buy-in + MF = total cost per point
$2.28 + $5.04 = $7.32 / per point in 2009
I round it up to $8.00 help account for time value of money, etc.
Next year the MF might go up 5% which would be $5.29 + $2.28, but I imagine the cost of the resorts will also increase.

Our trip in Oct will be 12 points per night (studio)
12 points x $8/point = $96/night

The All-Star price is $118/night with tax.

Hmmmm.... Would I rather stay at All-Star or VWL for $22 less per night?

You can rent points from David's Point Rental for $13/point, this still only brings the cost to $156 per night... only $38 more per night than All-Star!

I know that my method is a little simple, but it get the figure in the ballpark.

For my family the DVC is a good deal!

 

[ToddyLu]

$73/point paid
2042 - 2010 = 32 years of DVC
$73/32 years = $2.28 per point per year
MF at VWL = $5.04/point
Buy-in + MF = total cost per point
$2.28 + $5.04 = $7.32 / per point in 2009
I round it up to $8.00 help account for time value of money, etc.
Next year the MF might go up 5% which would be $5.29 + $2.28, but I imagine the cost of the resorts will also increase.

Our trip in Oct will be 12 points per night (studio)
12 points x $8/point = $96/night

My sentiments exactly

 

[nunzia]

Maybe I am just stupid. Dh and I are both professionals, married 15 years and have no children. There is no way on this beautiful earth that I would be able to afford to stay in a Studio AKV with a SV this year without our new points. Paying for that cash is $3600 for our nine night trip. No way we could ever afford or have need of a vacation home somewhere. We are hard workers who knew this was a frivolous venture going in....just like my Kraftmaid kitchen cabinets and DH's Hummer H3. Yet we drive, we cook, we stay at WDW every year because that is who we are. We own a modest home. The morning after Katrina when I came back home to find nothing below 5 feet salvagable I decided things don't matter much. DH is a firefighter and becasue of his experiences during that horrific time I told him to get any car he wanted...we would handle it. We had flood insurance I bought great cabinets and granite (over built for my neighborhood probably) but our family and jobs are here. So DVC was my lifetime luxury, my Rolex if you will.....I listen to Disney music every day, wear a Mickey ring and stay on the Dis boards far more than I should......Disney is our "happy place" were we go once a year to relax and heal from whatever. It is that important to us, worth every penny right now...we enjoy just thinking about our first DVC trip in October.

I know the economy is bad and many people are hurting now but "crap happens" and I don't sweat it out. WE pay our bills, live the American Dream modestly and have a terrific time enjoying this one special vacation place.
I am actually a conservative person but you can't take it with you and it doesn't matter when you are gone.

There.. there it is from the emotional DVC purchaser who wishes every DVCer and DISser "happy trips" always. Sorry just thought this thread need a little joy factor.

Agree with everything you said! Sometimes people tend to be overly judgemental on this..and yes, we are in this mess because people and companies were greedy and foolish. But..most of us are responsible and work hard and it isn't killing anyone if we do a splurge we can afford to make memories that last forever. When our kids were little we took great trips..could we afford it? Heck no..but all the trips were so worth it and I have no regrets paying whatever interest may have been paid to make it all possible. We took our 1 trip to WDW as a family with money from my an inheritance from my grandmother. The weather was lousy but the trip was great..we drove our POC station wagon across the country (it would have been much more fiscally responsible to upgrade the car instead of go to WDW), stayed at the Beach Club (our very first luxury hotel) and that was in the days when you could buy a package that included just a few things, so we did a character breakfast, the Poly show and Yachtsmen Steakhouse..we also sprung for an Animators learning day for our oldest who still attributes that trip to his becoming an artist which is how he makes his living.
Off topic, but we need to be remindied that life is short and sometimes recreation really does re-create us. Live a little

 

[DisneyKidds]

Sorry, haven't read the whole thread, but I'm a little confused about some things in the original post.

For starters, the math seems very squishy, and that is no way to make a comparison. The $2,000 (rounded up?) in DVC is probably more like $1,800, no? And the $2,000 (rounded up?) for a POR room is probaly more like $1,500, no? But the original concept still stands. The OP would be looking at spending roughly the same, or a little bit more, in dues on 400 points then he spends on a single room for a week at POR. But we are talking apples and oranges here.

For a true comparison, to get a sense of the value of DVC, he should compare dues on a 150 point contract to the cost of a POR room for a week. That's about $651 versus $1,500. Or perhaps compare the $2,000 in dues on the 400 points to the cost of two rooms (after all, when the time comes that they would need a 2 Br DVC villa, they'd need to rent two rooms if they didn't own DVC). That's about $1,800 versus $3,000.

Problem is, the original poster is buying much more points than he needs now, and comparing the dues for that to much lesser accomodations that he needs right now. But you must remember, for those 400 points and $1,800 in dues you could go to WDW for a lot more than just a week in a standard room at a moderate resort. OK, so the OP may not want to do that. So what to do with all the extra points in the interim? Heck, reserve a studio for a week, or even a 1 Br, rent the rest of the points, use the money to pay the dues, and then your annual dues cost in the near term will be $0. How does that compare to the $1,500 room at POR?

I like that the OP is thinking ahead and buying points he know they will need in the future. We did the same, although I agree he should probably buy two smaller contracts. I also like that he is doing the analysis so as to make an informed decision. But you have to make sure you get the math right in order to come to a logical conclusion.

 

[thelionqueen]

Maybe I am just stupid. Dh and I are both professionals, married 15 years and have no children. There is no way on this beautiful earth that I would be able to afford to stay in a Studio AKV with a SV this year without our new points. Paying for that cash is $3600 for our nine night trip. No way we could ever afford or have need of a vacation home somewhere. We are hard workers who knew this was a frivolous venture going in....just like my Kraftmaid kitchen cabinets and DH's Hummer H3. Yet we drive, we cook, we stay at WDW every year because that is who we are. We own a modest home. The morning after Katrina when I came back home to find nothing below 5 feet salvagable I decided things don't matter much. DH is a firefighter and becasue of his experiences during that horrific time I told him to get any car he wanted...we would handle it. We had flood insurance I bought great cabinets and granite (over built for my neighborhood probably) but our family and jobs are here. So DVC was my lifetime luxury, my Rolex if you will.....I listen to Disney music every day, wear a Mickey ring and stay on the Dis boards far more than I should......Disney is our "happy place" were we go once a year to relax and heal from whatever. It is that important to us, worth every penny right now...we enjoy just thinking about our first DVC trip in October.

I know the economy is bad and many people are hurting now but "crap happens" and I don't sweat it out. WE pay our bills, live the American Dream modestly and have a terrific time enjoying this one special vacation place.
I am actually a conservative person but you can't take it with you and it doesn't matter when you are gone.

There.. there it is from the emotional DVC purchaser who wishes every DVCer and DISser "happy trips" always. Sorry just thought this thread need a little joy factor.

I often consider myself well spoken, but your post sums up our thoughts EXACTLY. Especially the part about DVC being my Rolex, PERFECT!! -Well done and I TOTALLY agree!!!!

The only thing I REALLY ever wanted for me and my family (mostly for me honestly) is DVC. Now that I have it, I can't tell you how many times I've told my husband out loud "I honestly have everything I could ever want, a loving husband, healthy & happy children, my health and DVC. If I died to tomorrow, I'd die with a smile on my face and no regrets" How many people with or without money or debt could say that? And what would one pay to say that and mean it? The answer is, that is something money CAN'T buy, and I'm a better person for it. And, dead seriously, my DVC payment is the ONLY bill I look forward to paying (I am a total DVC freak )

 

[crisi]

I spent dozens of hours running the DVC numbers before we purchased. My DW would laugh because I would have 3 or 4 spreadsheets on the computer at one time analyzing the "value". What I finally used as my decision maker was the following:

$73/point paid
2042 - 2010 = 32 years of DVC
$73/32 years = $2.28 per point per year
MF at VWL = $5.04/point
Buy-in + MF = total cost per point
$2.28 + $5.04 = $7.32 / per point in 2009
I round it up to $8.00 help account for time value of money, etc.
Next year the MF might go up 5% which would be $5.29 + $2.28, but I imagine the cost of the resorts will also increase.

Our trip in Oct will be 12 points per night (studio)
12 points x $8/point = $96/night

The All-Star price is $118/night with tax.

Hmmmm.... Would I rather stay at All-Star or VWL for $22 less per night?

You can rent points from David's Point Rental for $13/point, this still only brings the cost to $156 per night... only $38 more per night than All-Star!

I know that my method is a little simple, but it get the figure in the ballpark.

For my family the DVC is a good deal!

Your present value on your annuity is probably more like $5 than rounding up to $3. Depends on what you set the interest rate at - but I get $5.18 at 6%. Which is a pretty low rate (although based on last years returns or current CD rates, it seems huge). I use $5.50 - we bought at $63, I had 35 years, plus closing costs (resale) and I use an 8% interest rate.

Which would give you $5.18+5.04 in dues= $10.22 per point this year (renting is a great deal if you can get points for $10) x 12 points = $122.64. Still a great deal, but that is why people say "you won't break even at the All Stars."

 

[ssawka]

Maybe I am just stupid. Dh and I are both professionals, married 15 years and have no children. There is no way on this beautiful earth that I would be able to afford to stay in a Studio AKV with a SV this year without our new points. Paying for that cash is $3600 for our nine night trip. No way we could ever afford or have need of a vacation home somewhere. We are hard workers who knew this was a frivolous venture going in....just like my Kraftmaid kitchen cabinets and DH's Hummer H3. Yet we drive, we cook, we stay at WDW every year because that is who we are. We own a modest home. The morning after Katrina when I came back home to find nothing below 5 feet salvagable I decided things don't matter much. DH is a firefighter and becasue of his experiences during that horrific time I told him to get any car he wanted...we would handle it. We had flood insurance I bought great cabinets and granite (over built for my neighborhood probably) but our family and jobs are here. So DVC was my lifetime luxury, my Rolex if you will.....I listen to Disney music every day, wear a Mickey ring and stay on the Dis boards far more than I should......Disney is our "happy place" were we go once a year to relax and heal from whatever. It is that important to us, worth every penny right now...we enjoy just thinking about our first DVC trip in October.

I know the economy is bad and many people are hurting now but "crap happens" and I don't sweat it out. WE pay our bills, live the American Dream modestly and have a terrific time enjoying this one special vacation place.
I am actually a conservative person but you can't take it with you and it doesn't matter when you are gone.

There.. there it is from the emotional DVC purchaser who wishes every DVCer and DISser "happy trips" always. Sorry just thought this thread need a little joy factor.

Well said! In my case, I have a special needs child and I am buying DVC for her [and me ]. With all that she has to go through with doctors and things, I will spend whatever I need to to provide her one week of true happiness per year.

 

[Disney Doll]

When we bought DVC, we bought it with the understanding that we were going to be able to vacation at WDW in a nice fashion. We like that. It makes us happy. We like hearing "welcome home" when we arrive, we like all the little DVC things...the magazines, the little surprises they send you occasionally....we love all of it.

We were fortunate in that purchasing DVC wasn't a financial hardship for us. We were able to purchase it, pay our bills, still save for retirement. DVC did not create any type of hardship, ever. It never created any feeling of "Uh oh....we can't afford this". Do I think it's an investment insofar as it will make us money, like a retirement investment? No, not at all, but I never did. It's an investment in us, our friends and our family. We enjoy going to WDW, we enjoy staying with friends and family in a 2 or 3 BR unit, hanging out together.

Maybe it wasn't the wisest way to spend money from a purely financial standpoint, but it was certainly the wisest investment we've ever made from a life standpoint. Money's never been my god...I've had it and I've not had it. My grandmother said it best...."They don't put pockets in shrouds".

 

[ToddyLu]

I am at work today, waiting on my patients to come through the door. Thought of my DVC purchase.....and.....smiled

 

[csatulovsky]

My first family vacation to WDW was september last year after I do not know how many years of planning it and never been able to due to cash out of pocket. Last year we were 4 adults (hubby, me, one 25 y.o, one 19) and my daugther 17 y.o- after calculations and calculations i was going about to book at a moderate resort for about $1300.00 when Tinkerbell sprinkle some fairy dust in my way and directed me to this forum. I rented one week in Broadwalk Villas for $1260.00!!!. Adding the meal plan saved us much more...for $40.00 a day we had all we needed and we ended up with snacks for the trip back!

Once there and looking at what DVC offered for us we went ahead and bought 200 pts at AKV.(added BLT later in January) My husband is an executive chef and I am an executive assistant so DVC give us the opportunity to vacation as we like to do (deluxe)and for us it save us money. You can say whatever you want but Disney worth its value in experience..(usually) you do not have to deal with employees in bad mood and they always try to give you little gifts here an there.

Next vacation is in December and for 237 pts will have a one bed, savannah view at AKV-- I LOVE MY DVC!!!!! also it is something that my future to come gradchilds will enjoy.

my two cents!!

 

[Slakk]

For my family DVC forces us to vacation. Before DVC we would back out because vacations were too expensive and we could justify staying home *this year* then the next and the next....

Now we vacation every year.

 

[bobby523]

Hi,

I purchased 160 points for AKV last year. My membership is for 50 years. If you think about it, thats a great deal for 50 years of vacationing. You dont have to stay at a DVC property. You can exchange points for $95 per STAY at any of the RCI properties. A lot of people forget that. If you spent $17,000 (high side for 160 points), over 50 years it costs $340 a year, plus dues. Think about that as this is ownership and is an investment.

You have to remember that you are getting what you pay for; quality rooms in a quality location.

 

[Dean]

I'm glad that someone mentioned the not saving money statement - I'll disagree with that as longterm, you will save money over the cost of regular resort rooms, as they will go up probably more than maintenance fees will.

DVC may or may not save money. It depends on how you compare, how you use it and what you would pay for otherwise. For S-F stays, it will be as cheap or cheaper than a moderate. For weekends only, you'll likely be losing money each and every trip forever. Comparing to a value, the numbers are not as favorable as for a moderate but may be somwhat close depending on choices. If you'd stay off property, you could get a 2 BR at a resort as nice or nicer than the DVC resorts for about the same or less than a value. Financing has a major impact on the $$$ value as well. Using consistently for cash type exchange options (DCL, DC, CC) will always make DVC cost more than not owning would have and paying OOP.

Comparing to DVC rack rates is a fools comparison in all situations except where you'd pay that price if you didn't own or if you'd stay in suites at Disney resorts consistently. One of the major mistakes many makes many make is simply assuming it will save them money.

 

[DebbieB]

Everytime I stay in a DVC resort, it reinforces that it is the best vacation decision I have ever made. Not just money wise but experience wise. I was just thinking it again this past week as I stood on my balcony at AKV Kidani watching the animals. This savannah view studio would have been $450 a night plus tax rack rate! There's no way I would want to put that out even with a discount. It was 117 points (6 nights) not even half of my annual allotment! My dues are $108 per month (250 points).

 

[crisi]

If you use DVC like you used Disney - and if nothing were to change in your life in the future that would affect your Disney patterns - you'll probably save money on accomodations (except with Value) - although even that depends on how much discounting Disney does in the future that you can take advantage of. But that isn't really what I'm talking about. DVC is a great value - but great value does not mean that you will necessarily end up giving Disney less money. Because DVC DOES change MOST people's vacation habits - with extra trips, addons, guests, bigger accomodations, annual passes. It encourages you to take a trip (the room is paid for) when money is tight and you might skip this year if you had to pay cash.

What DVC does is allows me to spend a little more than I'd spend on a Deluxe room - but put my kids on a couch in the living room so my husband and I have space to ourselves. It makes treating family and friends affordable. It creates a bi-annual enforced vacations - which is definately worth something since we are the type to "forget" to book anything unless encouraged. These are great values - but had we not bought DVC we'd go every three or four years instead of every other (or lately every) year and we'd stick us all in one Deluxe hotel room - and I sure wouldn't be picking up the tab for another hotel room for my sister and brother in law.

Part of the treating for us, btw, comes from the 150 point minimum in place when we bought. Since we don't go every year, and we only go for a week at a time during a low point season - we tend to have 'extra' points. Those people who buy small contracts resale - or who started this journey with multiple trips per year - are probably not as likely to let all those points change the amount they spend on airfare and park tickets or bring guests.

 

[nwhitehead1214]

Comparing a moderate resort room to a DVC studio is a bit misleading to this lady. A studio only has one bed-- and a pull out sofa bed. It is absolutely not comparing apples to apples. The kitchenette has been taken out of the game because at all moderate and deluxes you get a refridg and a coffee maker and you can request a microwave. You also do not get housekeeping. You get a trash and tidy. Most DVC members will get a one bedroom. These studios are tiny (unless you stay at the OKW)

Really also you need to figure out what is important to you. Do you like having your room cleaned daily or are you ok with trash and towels? On vacation do you truly use the kitchen or do you eat out? You spend 10 minutes at the kitchenette-- you spend 8 hours in a bed. What is important to you.

I think you just need to know that you really cannot compare apples to apples (which is why everyone has difficulty with the numbers) because Disney has made it that way. You just have to figure what's important to you and base your numbers on that. You can have full housekeeping-- but you have to pay. You can have two beds-- but at DVC that depending on the resort is a two bedroom where you do not have a sleeper sofa (which we all know can get pretty cruddy over the years). Do your numbers that way.