My argument against DVC

aharbin88

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 30, 2008
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I have wanted DVC for a long time. I tried to talk to DH about it, and he just couldn't see the cost being worth it. Now the tables have turned. He's ready to buy resale, and I'm backing out. The one thing that is holding me up is the fact that the annual dues will cost us as much as a week's stay in a moderate. We are looking to buy roughly 400 points at SSR, and will pay approx $2K a year in annual dues. We typically stay at POR when we visit the World, and we generally pay about that for the room for the week. So, we would be paying the same amount until the lease expires as we would if we just booked a non-DVC resort. Wouldn't we? Could someone help me out? I guess I need someone to convince me that paying annual dues are better than just paying for a reservation.

Thank you!
 
The one thing that is holding me up is the fact that the annual dues will cost us as much as a week's stay in a moderate. We are looking to buy roughly 400 points at SSR, and will pay approx $2K a year in annual dues. We typically stay at POR when we visit the World, and we generally pay about that for the room for the week. So, we would be paying the same amount until the lease expires as we would if we just booked a non-DVC resort. Wouldn't we?

why the heck would you buy 400 pts if you are comparing DVC to a week in a hotel room?

if you only want to stay in something like a moderate hotel room, compare the number of pts needed for a studio for a week...more like 100-150 pts or so.
 
I have wanted DVC for a long time. I tried to talk to DH about it, and he just couldn't see the cost being worth it. Now the tables have turned. He's ready to buy resale, and I'm backing out. The one thing that is holding me up is the fact that the annual dues will cost us as much as a week's stay in a moderate. We are looking to buy roughly 400 points at SSR, and will pay approx $2K a year in annual dues. We typically stay at POR when we visit the World, and we generally pay about that for the room for the week. So, we would be paying the same amount until the lease expires as we would if we just booked a non-DVC resort. Wouldn't we? Could someone help me out? I guess I need someone to convince me that paying annual dues are better than just paying for a reservation.

Thank you!

$2000 per week in a Studio at POR. If you were staying at SSR you could stay in a studio for a week between 96 and 161 points. That means that you could roughly stay 2 1/2 times as long to 4 times as long. With DVC you also get the choice of Superior hotels, pools, and room sizes. If you are happy staying at a value or moderate, then DVC might not be right for you.
 
Make sure to compare apples to apples - if you are talking about a regular hotel room, use a studio for comparision. If you are planning on staying in a one or two bedroom, figure out what the dollar value of that difference is. 400 points will get you a lot more than a week in a studio - you are either looking at more trips for 400 points - or bigger units.

Make sure to remember that DVC is long term - right now you can get great rates on Disney rooms - but sometimes there are no discounts to be had. DVC budgets your hotel - no discounts, but your price is going to remain pretty constant (dues will go up). Also, remember that DVC is not subject to room tax.

But honestly, DVC is NOT about saving money - if that is your motivation you'll be disappointed. DVC is about having access to multi room units at affordable prices. Its about being able to project your costs out long term - and lock in a reasonable rate. Its about committing to Disney vacations (for the good and bad - some people find it nice to have enforced vacations, some find it limiting to own a DVC timeshare - some of us find ourselves with one foot in each discovery). If your object is to do Disney in a way that is cheap and flexible, there are better options than DVC.
 

If you are happy staying at a value or moderate, then DVC might not be right for you.

this is true.

also, if you don't like booking well in advance (ideally 10-11 months out) or being committed to using all your pts at disney, DVC may not be a good deal.
 
..I would be hesitant about 400 points period, much less in one chunk. If need be, it is much easier to sell smaller contracts. As others have said, check out what a week would cost in a studio for your comparison. I have the huge amount of 150 points and my dues for the year are about 500, but I can work it for many nice stays in studios and by juggling can do some bigger rooms as well.
As your family growns that room at POR might get smaller.
I woud really advise you start with a smaller contract and then see how your points need develop. You can always add on smaller contracts under the same master account later.
 
I agree with what everyone else said. I would look at buying 150 points. You should love where you buy and there are some great hotels for sale right now (AKL and BLT).

People that buy DVC, buy because of the value (not price) of staying at fabulous hotels in fabulous rooms. Having washers, dryers, full kitchens and jacuzes.... It is mentally owning a piece of Disney (at least for 50 years, most of our lifetimes) and understanding that we build memories with kids and grandkids and other family........lalalala...the whole Disney Sales Pitch....
 
/
I'll join the apples-to-apples chorus. As long as you know you'll be visiting at least once every other year, and preferably more often, for the next several decades, a smaller contract would work out to be a nice upgrade in accomodations, plus probably a little savings, even considering the opportunity cost and amortization of the purchase capital.

I also agree that for you, 400 seems like overkill for right now. You might want to spend a little more time resarching how the system really works before taking the plunge.
 
Just out of curiosity....what size unit, or length of stay, were you planning to get with your 400 points a year?

If you're really planning to use 400 points every year, then you'll either be staying in a studio for far longer than a week, or staying in a multi-room villa with full kitchen and laundry facilities and a jacuzzi, that in no way compares to the motel rooms at POR. Either way, there's no way a 400-point contract comes out remotely equal to a week's stay at POR, in terms of what you're getting for your money.

I have a 150-point contract at VWL, and with that I can stay in a studio (much superior to the rooms at POR) for roughly 10 weeknights a year. And my per-night cost for that studio is way less than even a discounted room at POR.
 
I tend to also agree with the overkill theory. We have 200 points and thru carefull planning have been able to spend 2, 5 day vacations a year (Fri and Sat are the point eaters) in a 1BR @ OKW, our home resort. If you intend to spend the vast majority of your stays in a DVC resort, I think the DVC is still a good deal. We pay about $750 a year in dues, which is equal to about 2 cash nights in a 1br @ OKW. There are Vacation clubs popping up that follow the DVC model, but none can immerse you in the unique Disney experience that simply is not available elsewhere.

I would however, not be swayed by all of the hype about the "collections" and trades all over the US and world. Disney wants you in a Disney resort, spending your money at Disney, so the trades are never as cost/point effective as staying in a DVC resort. As you may have seen in a couple of other threads I posted today, even trying to use DVC points in "The Disney Collection" for a campsite @ Fort Wilderness, booking 6 months out, was not possible, though cash reservations were a walk in the park (no pun intended)
 
I have wanted DVC for a long time. I tried to talk to DH about it, and he just couldn't see the cost being worth it. Now the tables have turned. He's ready to buy resale, and I'm backing out. The one thing that is holding me up is the fact that the annual dues will cost us as much as a week's stay in a moderate. We are looking to buy roughly 400 points at SSR, and will pay approx $2K a year in annual dues. We typically stay at POR when we visit the World, and we generally pay about that for the room for the week. So, we would be paying the same amount until the lease expires as we would if we just booked a non-DVC resort. Wouldn't we? Could someone help me out? I guess I need someone to convince me that paying annual dues are better than just paying for a reservation.

Thank you!

disney hotel rates go up each year, DVC doesn't but the M-FEES might
 
I have wanted DVC for a long time. I tried to talk to DH about it, and he just couldn't see the cost being worth it. Now the tables have turned. He's ready to buy resale, and I'm backing out. The one thing that is holding me up is the fact that the annual dues will cost us as much as a week's stay in a moderate. We are looking to buy roughly 400 points at SSR, and will pay approx $2K a year in annual dues. We typically stay at POR when we visit the World, and we generally pay about that for the room for the week. So, we would be paying the same amount until the lease expires as we would if we just booked a non-DVC resort. Wouldn't we? Could someone help me out? I guess I need someone to convince me that paying annual dues are better than just paying for a reservation.

Thank you!

Heed above about comparing apples to oranges. 400 SSR points will get you 9 to 12 nights straight in a 2BR at SSR, 12 to 15 nights in a 1BR, and 3 to 4 weeks in a studio, and that studio is significantly larger than any room at POR. Nevertheless if you are fine with one week a year in a room at POR and want daily maid service (it costs extra to get it with DVC), then DVC may not be the better choice.
 
$2000 per week in a Studio at POR. If you were staying at SSR you could stay in a studio for a week between 96 and 161 points. That means that you could roughly stay 2 1/2 times as long to 4 times as long.
But do include the DVC purchase costs and don't just look at maint fees. So you're not really staying 2.5 to 4 times as long for the same expense. Add interest charges if the purchase is financed.

Cash stays are the most flexible of all, not a timeshare, which requires more advance planning and is subject to availability limitations more so than cash stays. If you want to enjoy a 1BR (more space, privacy and a kitchen but no daily housekeeping) for approx. the cost of a moderate hotel room and you don't mind the ongoing commitment, DVC may be for you. It's a substantial enough luxury purchase that if you must finance or if you are unsure, it's probably best to hold off, IMO. HTH.
 
why the heck would you buy 400 pts if you are comparing DVC to a week in a hotel room?
I am comparing DVC to a hotel room because that's all I know. When my DH and I have been there in the past, it was just the two of us, then two of us and our 13 month old in a pnp. A hotel room was cramped, but do-able. Next time we go, we will have 2 adults and 2 children. As our family grows, the more our need for space and amenities grows. We are looking at buying 400 points to accommodate a potential 2BR stay eventually.

But honestly, DVC is NOT about saving money - if that is your motivation you'll be disappointed. DVC is about having access to multi room units at affordable prices. Its about being able to project your costs out long term - and lock in a reasonable rate. Its about committing to Disney vacations (for the good and bad - some people find it nice to have enforced vacations, some find it limiting to own a DVC timeshare - some of us find ourselves with one foot in each discovery). If your object is to do Disney in a way that is cheap and flexible, there are better options than DVC.
To hear that DVC is not about saving money is disappointing, I'll admit. But am I even breaking even? I realized I'm paying more and getting more, so it's just a matter of reconciling that in my mind.

also, if you don't like booking well in advance (ideally 10-11 months out) or being committed to using all your pts at disney, DVC may not be a good deal.

We have no problem booking well in advance. We are generally not spur-of-the-moment vacationers. I am too much of a planner for that. In fact, our next trip isn't until November of '10, and we're already planning.

Also, until we have a need for all 400 points at WDW, we will probably use some at Hilton Head, if reservations are available. We live close enough that HHI is a short drive, and is a location that we would enjoying using up extra points.

..I would be hesitant about 400 points period, much less in one chunk. If need be, it is much easier to sell smaller contracts. As others have said, check out what a week would cost in a studio for your comparison. I have the huge amount of 150 points and my dues for the year are about 500, but I can work it for many nice stays in studios and by juggling can do some bigger rooms as well.
As your family growns that room at POR might get smaller.
I woud really advise you start with a smaller contract and then see how your points need develop. You can always add on smaller contracts under the same master account later.
This is great advice. I don't think I'm interested in a studio at this point, but I may look into point values for a 1BR week and just start with that number of points. We can always add on. I think my only hesitation with doing that is that I recognize several good resale deals right now, and I hate to pay a ton more per point a few years down the road. That might be a risk we just have to take, though.
Just out of curiosity....what size unit, or length of stay, were you planning to get with your 400 points a year?

If you're really planning to use 400 points every year, then you'll either be staying in a studio for far longer than a week, or staying in a multi-room villa with full kitchen and laundry facilities and a jacuzzi, that in no way compares to the motel rooms at POR. Either way, there's no way a 400-point contract comes out remotely equal to a week's stay at POR, in terms of what you're getting for your money.

I have a 150-point contract at VWL, and with that I can stay in a studio (much superior to the rooms at POR) for roughly 10 weeknights a year. And my per-night cost for that studio is way less than even a discounted room at POR.

I think I've answered your questions above, but we're wanting a 1BR now, and planning to need a 2BR in the future, both for at least a 7/8 night stay. I know we're buying too many points for that right now, but eventually we'll be closer to needing that many points.

But do include the DVC purchase costs and don't just look at maint fees. So you're not really staying 2.5 to 4 times as long for the same expense. Add interest charges if the purchase is financed.

Cash stays are the most flexible of all, not a timeshare, which requires more advance planning and is subject to availability limitations more so than cash stays. If you want to enjoy a 1BR (more space, privacy and a kitchen but no daily housekeeping) for approx. the cost of a moderate hotel room and you don't mind the ongoing commitment, DVC may be for you. It's a substantial enough luxury purchase that if you must finance or if you are unsure, it's probably best to hold off, IMO. HTH.
At this point, financing is the way we would go. After reading these posts, and talking more with my DH, I think we're going to hold off until the first of the year, when paying cash will be a likely option. Unless we find a screaming deal ($65/point at SSR), in which case we would probably buy now and pay the financing off after the first of the year.

Thank you, everyone, for giving me your feedback. It's a lot to consider, and trust me when I tell you that we are considering it. Agonizing over it, in fact. :goodvibes
 
If you do the 400 pts just break them down to say maybe 2 (200 pt ) contracts. That way with your 2 children you can leave each one an equal contract in the future. I would suggest 1 (160) pts because I think your master contract needs to be that. Then 3 ( 80 pts)= 400

Our first contract was for 150 resale, but now we did 1 add-on for 100 and if we add-on again we will do small contracts under 125 pts. Small contracts are easier to sell if you need to sell one.:goodvibes:goodvibes
 
If you do the 400 pts just break them down to say maybe 2 (200 pt ) contracts. That way with your 2 children you can leave each one an equal contract in the future. I would suggest 1 (160) pts because I think your master contract needs to be that. Then 3 ( 80 pts)= 400

Our first contract was for 150 resale, but now we did 1 add-on for 100 and if we add-on again we will do small contracts under 125 pts. Small contracts are easier to sell if you need to sell one.:goodvibes:goodvibes

If you buy resale to start, then you don't need the 160. I bought 25 at OKW and was in the system, so when I added on my VGC I could add any amount I wanted. I STILL don't have that minimum, but I have what I need (not want, mind you, but need)
 
I am comparing DVC to a hotel room because that's all I know.


To hear that DVC is not about saving money is disappointing, I'll admit. But am I even breaking even?




This is great advice. I don't think I'm interested in a studio at this point, but I may look into point values for a 1BR week and just start with that number of points.

I think I've answered your questions above, but we're wanting a 1BR now, and planning to need a 2BR in the future, both for at least a 7/8 night stay. I know we're buying too many points for that right now, but eventually we'll be closer to needing that many points.

I'm not an expert in this, but it seems that your'e taking comments almost backwards.

If you are not wanting a studio, then you simply can't compare the villas to a hotel room. You are getting MORE than a hotel room. You're getting more than a moderate WDW hotel room. DVC is considered Deluxe, and even the studio, with the kitchenette and access to free laundry room, is more than just a hotel room.

A hotel room and the maintenance fees might be the same *right now*, but what's more likely to go waaaay up? (I personally, and remember I'm not an expert, would bet on hotel costs going up faster)

Since you're interested in a 2 bedroom, and your'e interested in staying at a non-Disney hotel sometimes for quick close to home stays, it seems that your money would go far with the DVC purchase.

And I just don't really agree that it's not about saving money. I looked at what we have been spending, just on DLR, and what we will be spending with WDW, as time goes on, and even with financing it's a savings compared to what we will be spending (or rather would have been spending, since we bought in).
 
To hear that DVC is not about saving money is disappointing, I'll admit. But am I even breaking even? I realized I'm paying more and getting more, so it's just a matter of reconciling that in my mind.

Assuming you'll be using your DVC points for 2-bedroom villas, will you save money, or break even, compared to a stay in 1 room at POR?

Absolutely not. But then you can't really expect a 1075 sq foot, 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom villa with a full kitchen, washer/dryer and jacuzzi to cost the same or less than a 314 square foot motel room. DVC can be a very good deal, but it's not THAT good a deal.

If you compare your cost for a 2-bedroom villa at SSR through DVC to the cash reservation cost for that same villa ($545 - $900 per night).....hoo boy, will you save money.

It sounds like you've decided that your family needs the larger rooms and amenities that DVC offers. But there are most definitely less expensive ways to vacation at WDW. DVC is a luxury purchase, no doubt about it.
 
I'm glad that someone mentioned the not saving money statement - I'll disagree with that as longterm, you will save money over the cost of regular resort rooms, as they will go up probably more than maintenance fees will.

Just for fun, I priced out 10 nights at a moderate (our old vacation style) in the summer (when we always go as I'm a teacher) with the free dining code for this year. The price was exactly the same, give or take a few dollars! I factored in our purchase price (higher for us due to CDN exchange at the time) and maintenance fees for this year, plus the cost of APs divided by 2, as we get 2 trips out of them. The MYW package only included base tickets for 11 days, and they would expire, so ticket options are better with our DVC vacation, and are actually cheaper.

Now, of course, with free dining we would save a huge chunk - free food for 2 adults and a 6 yr old (baby is free), but, these offers are only at certain times. It would be pushing it for us to travel at middle to end of August, due to me needing to be back at school, but for this year, the cost was the same, but we would save on dining. Oh, I forgot to mention, the cost was the same for a moderate room 10 night stay, as opposed to our 13 night stay in a 1 bed for 11 nights, and a studio for 2 nights! So, not exactly the same accomodations, as studios and 1 beds are both bigger than regular moderate resort rooms, plus our ticket options are better with our DVC APs. Also, this was priced for end of August, and rooms are cheaper. We go in July, so the package would actually be more money than our DVC vacation, but to get the free dining of course, must travel in August or September.

For us, we have saved money, and love our 1 beds. We would never have been able to afford this without being DVC owners. Heck, we wouldn't be paying close to $300.00 for studios either, so DVC has for us, allowed us to vacation a whole new way that wouldn't have been possible!

It was very interesting to do the price comparison as mentioned above, Tiger
 












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