Motion Sickness Bags Are Now Being Handed out To Mission Space Riders

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by Another Voice
"If you lose your lunch you're a weenie."

Personally I think that anyone who uses an amusement park ride as a test of their manhood is a "weenie". There's plenty out there to really test your endurance and your stamina, not the cheap and easy thrills found at 'Mission: Space'.

WDW is a place people go to for fun, enjoyment and imgination. If a large number of people don't get that then Disney has a problem.

Burbank has a problem.

What your post fails to mention is that Mission : Space IS "fun, enjoyment and imagination" for some people. There's a huge group of people out there who consider testing their limits -- whether it be on a rock climbing wall, at the end of a bungee cord, or on an extreme theme park ride -- to actually BE fun and enjoyable. And there are lots of space fans out there who think it's pretty cool to be able to get the effect of a lift-off without having to go through the program at NASA. Just because it doesn't define fun, enjoyment and imagination for you doesn't mean the ride, the company or the city of Burbank (whose leadership, I'm thinking, didn't have a darn thing to do with the ride) are in a fatal spiral. You may never understand why people enjoy that experience, but it doesn't make their opinion less valid.

 

[raidermatt]

I haven't seen any of the billboards that show people "with their faces frozen in an expression of absolute terror." I've only seen the one with the boy, who is obviously having a good time, with only excitement shown on his face. But maybe it's how you look at it.

Being in CA, I haven't seen the billboards. I have only seen the national TV ad, and it most definitely shows 4 adults screaming in terror. That's the whole point... kids have just rode it and tell their parents its nothing, then the parents sream like Freddy Krueger just popped out of the wall in front of them.

As for the barf bags ... I think it's a gimmick.

I have to acknowledge that anything is possible, but really now, why would they do this?

If M:S is truly the amazing attraction some have said, why do they need to gamble on a gimmick like this?

Remember, WDW is going for the free-spending vacationers from far off lands like Cleveland and Boise. Some have taken the position that WDW needs more physical thrills to attract these folks. I disagree, but even if true, physical thrills are quite different from being afraid they will lose their lunch.

This isn't being portrayed as "M:S is such an extreme thrill, Disney has to offer bags". Its being portrayed as a problem. If it really is a gimmick on Disney's part, its unfortunate they think its necessary, and worse, it looks like its backfiring.

 

[crusader]

But Matt even if people in airlarry's situation are being taken out of the equation there are others counterbalancing it like Pirate.

The truth is, this is a replica of NASA's centrifuge built to allow us the opportunity to experience a portion of their training.

I knew what I was climbing into.

It wouldn't surprise me if many people wanted to try it out to see if they could handle it despite the warnings. They may not go back but they're never in front of me in line at Test Track either so that doesn't make the attraction a risk in popularity in my opinion.

I think the numbers being tossed around are inflated to build a story. Disney's pr should utilize this opportunity to their advantage by generating some great publicity with our space program.

They can easily spin the barf bag story. What air/spacecraft isn't equipt with one?

 

[raidermatt]

There's a huge group of people out there who consider testing their limits -- whether it be on a rock climbing wall, at the end of a bungee cord, or on an extreme theme park ride -- to actually BE fun and enjoyable.

Name just about ANYTHING, and there will be a huge group of people who find it fun and enjoyable. That's hardly enough to justify it being in WDW.

But AGAIN, "testing your limits" hardly seems to be what this is about. Most people who have rode M:S, even those that love it, don't claim that it really tests the limits of their ability to handle thrills. To them, its different, unique, but not exactly extreme.

So if you set the expectation, as the national ads and bags do, that the ride provides the most extreme physical thrill of any ride, you're going to let a lot of people down. They either are surprised to find they got sick, or find its not so extreme after all.

You also unnecessarily scare off people who don't want to experience the ultimate theme park physical thrill.

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by raidermatt
Name just about ANYTHING, and there will be a huge group of people who find it fun and enjoyable. That's hardly enough to justify it being in WDW.

True. But it doesn't automatically mean it SHOULDN'T be there either.

 

[Another Voice]

"You may never understand why people enjoy that experience, but it doesn't make their opinion less valid. "

My enjoyment or lack isn't the issue.

The problem Disney is looking at is a $150 million attraction that will never attract enough guests to pay for itself, let alone draw a millions of more reservations to the resort.

In order to make money WDW has to appeal to a very large group and a very large range of people. There simply aren't enough tweeners seeking to "test" themselves on a bland thrill ride to justify the cost (or at least that's the fear of the accountants). Yes - you can get all jazzed by proving yourself in a spinning bucket, but there are going to be a lot more 30+ year old parents and grandparents (you know, the ones with the money) that are going to be disinterested.

The general public does not see the joy and excitment of the space program as being their lunch projected onto a flat panel video game display. 'Mission: Space' as an attraction misses this very obvious point and provides its victims, er, guests with only a simple physical sensation. If people don't like that being spun there is nothing left to attract them to that ride.

That's a big problem when you got to pay back $100 million.

And personally you get a bigger kick in the gut in a 757 taking off from Orange County's airport here than what I felt on 'Mission: Space'. If that ride is the roughest you've had it than you really need to get outside once and a while. People who enjoy rock climbing or bungee jumping aren't going to be interested in a quick trip in a washing machine's spin cycle. There are real thrills out there to be had.

And it's hardly likely that someone deep in a basement office decided that creating an urban legend about becoming the vomit capital of the world is going to turn the fortunes at WDW.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Name just about ANYTHING, and there will be a huge group of people who find it fun and enjoyable. That's hardly enough to justify it being in WDW.

Uh oh...................here come the strip joint/porn arguments again .

 

[Cricket2]

Didn't they slow down ToT after the Beta riders said it was too much "scare" or whatever? I thought I read this somewhere, but I don't believe everything I read so I figured I'd ask.

If that is true, is it possible that the sickness factor can't be eliminated on MS by a speed or graphics change?

The reason I ask is in a couple of years when MS is old hat for most visitors, do you think it's possible that they might try to increase the thrill factor? Since this is apparently the current marketing's target audience from what I'm hearing, I don't see how this is not a possibility (assuming it can be technically be done).

JC

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by raidermatt
Being in CA, I haven't seen the billboards. I have only seen the national TV ad, and it most definitely shows 4 adults screaming in terror. That's the whole point... kids have just rode it and tell their parents its nothing, then the parents sream like Freddy Krueger just popped out of the wall in front of them.

I've never seen the Freddy Krueger movies, but I'll take your word for it. And yes, that's the point of that particular ad. There are other M:S ads that show people being amazed or having fun ... the whole "Dad? Are we still in the building?" series. Also, the "scared to death adults" are obviously being played for humor, thereby showing the viewing public that it's really nothing that terrifying.

Originally posted by raidermatt I have to acknowledge that anything is possible, but really now, why would they do this? ... This isn't being portrayed as "M:S is such an extreme thrill, Disney has to offer bags". Its being portrayed as a problem. If it really is a gimmick on Disney's part, its unfortunate they think its necessary, and worse, it looks like its backfiring.

Well ... it certainly wouldn't be the first time someone in Marketing tried an approach, only to have it backfire. I just think it's too fast-spreading of a story for Disney to have released it because they were drawing attention to a serious problem. With Disney's notoriously close-mouthed policy on problems and even perceived problems, why would they corroberate stories that specifically highlight something that no one was really talking about before, unless they thought it was going to have a positive effect in the end? As I said ... lots of people get sick on the teacups, but you never see THAT in the news.

Originally posted by raidermatt If M:S is truly the amazing attraction some have said, why do they need to gamble on a gimmick like this?

Because M:S was put in to catch a specific demographic -- all those 'tweens who love the thrill rides at IOA and think Disney in general (and Epcot in particular) is boring and for little kids. So, even though there's this cool NASA-type ride that simulates space travel, how do you get a 13-year-old excited about that? Oooooh ... science and a spinning ride. Wow, mom. Sounds great. BUT -- and I only know this from having seen a show called "Gross Science" (where they go into the biology of boogers and explain how phlem works) with many a middle school class -- tell them the ride is so cool it will make them throw up, and they'll be begging to go. Then, poof! You just upped your demographic.

 

[raidermatt]

It wouldn't surprise me if many people wanted to try it out to see if they could handle it despite the warnings. They may not go back but they're never in front of me in line at Test Track either so that doesn't make the attraction a risk in popularity in my opinion.

Maybe I'm not quite following you... If somebody sees the warnings for M:S, and takes it as a challenge, wouldn't they also be the folks who ride T:T?

Remember, if the explanation is correct, the problems they experience with M:S are not problems on T:T. They've probably already rode T:T with no issues, and will continue to do so.

IF M:S is causing the kind of problems being described (and either it is, or there is one heck of a conspiracy out there), you've got to question whether it will fulfill its intended purpose.

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by Another Voice
My enjoyment or lack isn't the issue.

The problem Disney is looking at is a $150 million attraction that will never attract enough guests to pay for itself, let alone draw a millions of more reservations to the resort.

But isn't the point that you should put things out there that amaze and excite people regardless of the bottom line? Regardless of whether or not you get your investment back? I thought that was the whole point of the WoL discussion? It should be open and available regardless of whether or not it's outdated or lame, simply because there are people who haven't seen it yet and who could if it were open. The fact that lots of us won't go again -- and some people won't go at all -- doesn't matter. It's part of the overall experience and some people are likely to enjoy it.

I would wager that Mission : Space draws as many people to the resort as any other specific ride out there, and I'm certain it draws more than WoL. Maybe it didn't hit it's target number -- maybe it never can. But the fact that Disney may not be able to recoup its investment isn't supposed to matter, I thought. There should be new stuff for the sake of there being new stuff and not stale stuff.

And, again ... even if you don't like it personally, you can't argue that it's a new attraction that many people have enjoyed, and that the pavilion is busy and that Future World has more life because of it.

Originally posted by Another Voice
And personally you get a bigger kick in the gut in a 757 taking off from Orange County's airport here than what I felt on 'Mission: Space'. If that ride is the roughest you've had it than you really need to get outside once and a while. People who enjoy rock climbing or bungee jumping aren't going to be interested in a quick trip in a washing machine's spin cycle. There are real thrills out there to be had.

Why does everything have to be so black and white? At the top of this note, you say that it doesn't really matter what you think, and then right here, we're back to the fact that YOU don't find it to be an amazing thrill ride, and so anyone that does needs to get a life. What is fun and exciting and thrilling to one person may be terrifying to someone else. Or boring. So let's put M:S in for the folks who DO like that sort of thing, and then you can just walk past it and go to other stuff. What's wrong with that? Surely, if you still visit the parks, you don't ride every single ride in the parks when you go. Surely there are those that you intentionally skip because they're not your cup of tea.

Originally posted by Another Voice And it's hardly likely that someone deep in a basement office decided that creating an urban legend about becoming the vomit capital of the world is going to turn the fortunes at WDW.

Oh ... I don't know. They released "Country Bears," didn't they? That was fairly vomit-inducing. Maybe it's a trend.

 

[Another Voice]

'But isn't the point that you should put things out there that amaze and excite people regardless of the bottom line? Regardless of whether or not you get your investment back?"

Nope, that's never been my point.

My point is that things that wonder and amaze tend to draw larger and more profitable audiences than stuff that's only hype. My point is that treating guests with respect and offering them value for their money will lead to happy, free spending guests who are likely to return. Treating guests as the victims of a con and a wallet to be picked using the least effort possible leads to unhappy people vacationing elsewhere.

It's the same thing that happened this summer when lots and lots of people continued to go see a really good movie about a fish and the theater showing a SuPeR kEwL Matrix were empty after the first weekend.

 

[crusader]

Well said WDSearcher.

There it is.

True M:S was arguably designed to get more butts in the park. While it may not be the driving force to entice a booking, it has managed to draw alot more of us over to that area of Future World.

Isn't that what we all want. New, innovative attractions that can only be found at Disney.

They should continue to invest a minimum of $150 mil for every brand new E-ticket they build and hire great people to work on these projects . Otherwise the investment isn't nearly enough.

Maybe I'm not quite following you... If somebody sees the warnings for M:S, and takes it as a challenge, wouldn't they also be the folks who ride T:T?

No. They can hear T:T and will avoid anything that sparks the senses.

M:S is a complete mystery. There isn't even the glimpse given from ToT to provide any real visuals. That's why people who wouldn't think of lining up for the other rides I enjoy are sampling this one.

They have no experience to go with.

 

[raidermatt]

Uh oh...................here come the strip joint/porn arguments again

Not from me. I know some take it there, but I really do mean it more generically.

True. But it doesn't automatically mean it SHOULDN'T be there either.

Yes, but I didn't use it as a reason it shouldn't. You (and you're certainly not the first to do this) used it as a reason it should be there. Its more of a "lowest common denominator" of anything on which Disney spends $100 million+. Sort of like safety... its something that must be there, but what is appropriate/advantagous to Disney is a small subset of anything that is safe.

There are other M:S ads that show people being amazed or having fun ... the whole "Dad? Are we still in the building?" series.

I've seen the "scared adults" ad at least 15 times, but never any others. Its possible the local or regional audience is getting a balance, but it doesn't look like the national audience is.

I just think it's too fast-spreading of a story for Disney to have released it because they were drawing attention to a serious problem.

It may very well be that because of the national ad campaign, its become a national story. Or it could be that a lot of people really do think its significant that Disney has the first ride that offers bags. Let's face it, if it wasn't fast spreading, would you be saying its not that big a deal because nobody was reporting it?

As I said ... lots of people get sick on the teacups, but you never see THAT in the news.

That's the problem... Everybody knows the teacups can make you sick. So how bad is M:S if it offers bags and the Tea Cups don't? The perception is going to be that it is much more likely to make you ill, or that it makes people ill who don't otherwise have issues.

Then, poof! You just upped your demographic.

We've been round this topic before, and I know Disney has all but stated this is what they are trying to do. But, it doesn't address what the impact is on the other segments, which are larger, and as AV said, have more disposable income. There's the potential for negative impact to these segments, as well as potential opportunity cost.

If M:S is excluding even some thrill seekers just by the nature of the ride, those potential negative become even more of an issue.

 

[raidermatt]

No. They can hear T:T and will avoid anything that sparks the senses.

I have to disagree.

If they are scared off by T:T's noise, I find it hard to believe they won't be scared off by M:S's warnings and bags.

Isn't that what we all want. New, innovative attractions that can only be found at Disney

Its one of the things we want, but again, that alone does not cut it. You can't point to one aspect of doing business and say that if something fulfills that one aspect, its "good".

 

[crusader]

If they are scared off by T:T's noise, I find it hard to believe they won't be scared off by M:S's warnings and bags.

Your wrong. I saw people do this.

You can't point to one aspect of doing business and say that if something fulfills that one aspect, its "good".

Sure you can. It is good. Even if it falls short of the powerpoint presentation - anytime you make an improvement like this it is a good move.

They have so many ways they can work within this venue now. It is well worth the investment.

 

[raidermatt]

Your wrong. I saw people do this.

Okay, now, cmon. You are telling me you watched people look at T:T, heard them say it looked like too much for them, then read the warnings for M:S and said "hey, this might be for me?".

I know you were with a large group, and maybe this was the case with somebody in your group, but there's just no way this is happening on any kind of large scale.

Further, the adding of bags does not enhance the chances of that happening.

Sure you can. It is good. Even if it falls short of the powerpoint presentation - anytime you make an improvement like this it is a good move.

I'm not talking about a Powerpoint presentation. I'm talking about fulfilling a strategy.

You claimed it was right because it was innovative. Assuming the true perception of most is that it is innovative, that still doesn't make it "good".

We all know your opinion is that its "good", which is a highly subjective term. Nobody is arguing Epcot and WDW would be better off if the M:S pavilion were boarded up. The argument is that it probably wasn't the optimal investment, and that the latest developments with regard to the nausea problems are "bad", not "good".

 

[Another Voice]

"Even if it falls short of the powerpoint presentation - anytime you make an improvement like this it is a good move."

You want to tell that to Eisner when the real figures come in and he compares that to the PowerPoint he saw a couple years ago.

The conference room where they did that for California Adventure still has scorch marks on the wall.

And if things falling short are still good - then how in blazes do you figure 'Wonders of Life' isn't good either? Seems to me that 'Mission: Space' runs the real risk of being just as empty as 'Body Wars' (another attraction that had its motion sickness problems).

 

[crusader]

I know you were with a large group, and maybe this was the case with somebody in your group, but there's just no way this is happening on any kind of large scale.

Bingo. Well if I've got 3 out of 27 and the press has 1 out of 100 getting sick than my scale is friggin' enormous!

We don't even need to discuss this issue at all. It's diminimus.

You want to tell that to Eisner when the real figures come in and he compares that to the PowerPoint he saw a couple years ago.

He should know better than to trust any of that b.s.

Seems to me that 'Mission: Space' runs the real risk of being just as empty as 'Body Wars' (another attraction that had its motion sickness problems).

No way. I only tolerated Body Wars twice in my lifetime. I've already matched that with M:S.

The repeat ridership stats are not in your favor on that theory because this isn't the same type of attraction. As Larry said: If they kept launching us it would have been great! That's actually the sensation that keeps me coming back.

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by Another Voice
Treating guests as the victims of a con and a wallet to be picked using the least effort possible leads to unhappy people vacationing elsewhere.

Yes. That is absolutely true. But in the context of our discussion about Mission:Space, where do you see evidence that the ride is a con? How can you say that it took the least effort possible? I'd believe that if we were talking about Dinorama or the re-do of Imagination, but I don't buy it for M:S. Mission:Space DOES wonder and amaze an awful lot of people. So, does it not get points for that?