More updated Fastpass+ information

[Angel Ariel]

It's also worth pointing out that every other major amusement park operator in the US (Universal, Cedar Fair, Sea World/Busch, Herschend, and Six Flags) openly sells expedited access to their attractions during the regular operating day in some way or another. It has not had a materially negative impact on their attendance, and has been positive for their overall bottom lines.

The real question is what is taking Disney so long to join in.

Honest question, because I don't know - did those other companies offer a free version of the service for any decent length of time?

Disney's had a free version for so long, it does kind of irk me that they may be finding a way to make it a paid perk!

 

[Brian Noble]

We arrived the next morning and that's when I realized we were going to have a croppy theme park experience unless we shelled out another $$ each. That was not what I planned for so we did not. We did, in fact have a croppy theme park experience because basically our admission price paid for the costs of keeping the park running, not for us to actually ride rides.

Really? That's a shame. We've been to that area a couple of times---including one week during peak summer season. I have never had a bad day at Dollywood, and never paid for their virtual queueing product. You do have to tour it a little bit smartly, knocking off the major rides (Thunderhead, Mystery Mine, and now probably Wild Eagle) either early or late in the day. But, the park has so many shows---most of which are excellent---that I could probably show up just from 1-5 in the afternoon and still have a good time hitting those plus the minor attractions.

Fast forward to our Universal experience where my sister had bought us tickets. Again, it was last minute and we did not know about the FOTL thing. We spent about 8 hours in the park and rode 4 rides, none of them headliners. Except for 20 minutes or so to grab a burger we were in lines for those four mediocre rides while we watched FOTL people ride over and over. Again, our admission price did not pay for a decent park experience. We were paying for the upkeep of the park for the people that really mattered... those staying on-site.

Universal doesn't deal with crowds quite as well, and during peak times Express does help. But, even there, I've done peak summer without Express and had a good time. With Express, it's better, though---no doubt about it. The Gringotts and Transformers additions may help with that, I hope, drawing some people from IoA to UO and adding capacity to the latter.

 

[Rosanne]

Really? That's a shame. We've been to that area a couple of times---including one week during peak summer season. I have never had a bad day at Dollywood, and never paid for their virtual queueing product. You do have to tour it a little bit smartly, knocking off the major rides (Thunderhead, Mystery Mine, and now probably Wild Eagle) either early or late in the day. But, the park has so many shows---most of which are excellent---that I could probably show up just from 1-5 in the afternoon and still have a good time hitting those plus the minor attractions.


Universal doesn't deal with crowds quite as well, and during peak times Express does help. But, even there, I've done peak summer without Express and had a good time. With Express, it's better, though---no doubt about it. The Gringotts and Transformers additions may help with that, I hope, drawing some people from IoA to UO and adding capacity to the latter.

I wish that had been the case for us. We even opened Universal Studios and our first ride was only 1/2 hour wait. After that, each wait was approx. 2 hours plus the time it takes to walk from one ride to the other. The hardest part was seeing the same people ride the ride multiple times while we were standing in line.

 

[johde]

Honest question, because I don't know - did those other companies offer a free version of the service for any decent length of time?

Disney's had a free version for so long, it does kind of irk me that they may be finding a way to make it a paid perk!

I'm not sure how long it lasted but Universal started out with a free version of Express Pass similar to Fast Pass that in some ways was better than Disney's. You stuck your ticket in and was given a choice of several return times. Searching back through the DIS is appears that the Free option disappeared in the Fall of 2005. I know I only visited once during the free Express Pass Era.

 

[Brian Noble]

Honest question, because I don't know - did those other companies offer a free version of the service for any decent length of time?

This is an excellent question, and the answer is yes. Universal offered Express much the same way Disney offeres Fastpass now---and it was little more like FP+, because you could reserve a variety of different rides at a single kiosk. This article that describes the removal was written early '06.

Cedar Fair used a super low-tech version called "Free Way" for a few years that involved handstamps with return times (no joke). You could only have two each day (because you only had two hands) but it was free. I liked it, despite the fact that it was relatively hard to wash the ink off your hands!

Why did they get rid of them? I strongly suspect it is because the original motivation for Disney's Fastpass (which came before either of the others) was, in fact, wrong. Reportedly, the idea was that if guests weren't in line, they would spend more in restaurants and shops. But, if you go back and look at the quarterly reports after Fastpass was deployed, you'll find that there wasn't an unusual jump in in-park spending compared to the other theme park operators. Instead, what most people did is they just got in some other line. That's bad for two reasons. One, you have effectively increased the "attendance" of your park, because now one person can wait in two different lines. But, they aren't paying more. Two, you have to pay extra staff to handle distribution, merging, etc.

Universal's solution was to abandon the free one, but keep the paid one, and just generate more revenue to offset the costs. Cedar Point's solution was to abandon virtual queueing entirely and eliminate the costs---but I suspect that had more to do with Kinzel's reluctance to spend money on anything that used electricity but wasn't a ride. A few short years ago, they were still doing Resort room charges on paper in triplicate, rather than an electronic payment system.

 

[CuteAsMinnie]

Early tickets were like that, yes. But, it hasn't been that way in decades. And even when it was that way, everyone had the opportunity to go on every ride. If people staying in deluxe resorts get unlimited fast passes and choose to go on BTMRR or Splash Mountain 15 times in one day that means there are fewer opportunities for others to go on it simply because they aren't staying in a deluxe resort.

With the fast pass system that is currently in place, it is also true that some people can utilitze it to their benefit and hit the headliners multiple times and it may be to the exclusion of others. However, the key difference there is that everyone currently has the ability to use the fast pass system, some just don't want to or refuse to pay attention to what is going on around them to learn how to use it.

Equating unlimited fast passes for deluxe hotel guests to things like eride nights or hard ticket events like MNSSHP is not an accurate comparison. Every guest staying at a Disney resort had the opportunity to pay the $10 or whatever it was to stay in the park after hours (at least I think it was only for resort guests, someone correct me if it was open to all park goers or not please). Everyone has the opportunity to buy a ticket to MNSSHP
if they so choose. I still do not think it is acceptable to allow people spending more money to stay at a nicer deluxe resort to have greater access to the rides in the parks.

If a middle class family of 4 decides to go to Disney World it is quite likely that they do not have the same opportunity to stay at GF and get unlimited fast passes because it's cost prohibitive for most families. However, the middle class family of four is paying the same price for park tickets. So why should they receive less access to rides when they are paying the same price to get into the park? Assuming they are staying at a value resort they already have fewer perks in the way of crappier location, crappier pool, crappier dining options, crappier room, crappier transportation, and crappier beds, crappier decor, and crappier ameneties. Why should they also get crappier access to rides?

However, this will likely be something we will have to agree to disagree on.

...and who is John Galt?

 

[LBIJim]

Honest question, because I don't know - did those other companies offer a free version of the service for any decent length of time?

Disney's had a free version for so long, it does kind of irk me that they may be finding a way to make it a paid perk!

Six Flags Great Adventure in NJ had a free "fastpass" system for one season, 2001 I believe, but it was only for season pass holders. Back then there was a separate season pass entrance far removed from the main entrance. Upon entering, if you chose to, you could pick up a 4 pack of fastpasses. One was for one of the major coasters, one for a lesser coaster, one for a spinning type of flat ride, and one for an unpopular ride that never had long lines anyway. The rides varied from day to day.

I don't know if any other Six Flags park had the same system. The next year GA introduced the pay FlashPass, or whatever it was called back then.

In general I have no objection to parks charging for "cut the line" privileges. I rarely find them necessary in any park I've visited, but I do know the "right" times to visit to avoid large crowds. I fully understand, though, how many visitors could feel a substandard experience if they attend at a busy time and decline to pay more for the passes.

If Disney went to such a pay system, I wouldn't particularly like it, but I'd accept it. However, I WOULD have a major problem with deluxe guests being able to get more FPs than moderate or value or off-site guests without paying extra for the benefit IN ADDITION to their higher hotel costs. Since park admission is the same for everyone, I believe anyone who pays to enter the parks should have the same basic privileges. Pay more for extras if you choose to.

A one day ticket is about $90, same as a value room at times. If deluxe guests want more in-park benefits, I suggest they pay $300+ to enter the parks each day to receive them.

Jim
(speaking as someone who usually stays at a deluxe hotel)

 

[mom2aandj]

Nah, I don't think they have rocks for brains. I do think it's a despicable practice and I like to have faith that Disney holds itself above such nonsense. Of course, they are in business to make a profit but it's not as if they are hurting for cash. Am I naive? Probably. But I prefer to believe that in at least one place on earth we are all treated the same and have the same opportunities, more or less.

.

I never quite understand why people think Disney is currently so fair and equal? You know that Disney sells VIP tours that allow people to cut lines, via FP lines and alternate exits? I know two families that have done it, they paid around $1600 for 6 or so hours of what amounted to the exact same thing all those other parks practice. Or is it just that Disney's line cutting is so much more expensive, and thus not as widespread?

 

[mom2rtk]

Or is it just that Disney's line cutting is so much more expensive, and thus not as widespread?

Yep. That's pretty much it.

It doesn't bother me one iota that people do VIP tours and skip all the standby lines. Because there are so few of them it doesn't affect me in any measurable way. But if they roll out a program that favors big chunks of the guests in the parks on a given day, it could be a deal breaker for me.

I've been to US only once since they started their FOTL program. We stayed for one night and used it ourselves. And based on that experience, I said I woudln't go back again without it myself. And so far I've been too cheap to pay for it. So it keeps me from carving out one of my Disney days and going.

Depending on how things roll out with FP+, the vacation priorties at our house could be up for serious re-evaluation. I won't go pay full price for my ticket and stand around waiting in long lines while big groups of people bypass the lines ahead of us.

I probably won't pony up to stay deluxe. I might pay more on my ticket for more FP+ priveleges. But it depends on the cost. But I won't just go and settle for leftovers.

Lots to see unveiled still.

 

[DougEMG]

Disney has stated that they want to eliminate room discounts. Replacing a room discount with extra FP+ or earlier booking windows provides a worth while benefit that doesn't cost anything. Just look at how the free dining discount has been reduced over the years. Free dining also use to be the same for all the different resorts, but it isn't any longer.

There are lots of people that don't like waiting in line and are willing to pay not to have to. I'm pretty sure someone at Disney is running the numbers to see how much money they could make verses how much good will they would lose.

Personally I just wish they would go ahead and start the new system up so we could see exactly what they are planning on doing.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Terms and Conditions." Under "Disney Fastpass+ Service" you will see that yes, we will only be able to get fp's for one park each day and you can't fp the same attraction twice....... Also if you scroll down to "Converting to Paperless Tickets" you will read that if you opt into the My Magic+, you will not be able to access the traditional fp system. So for those of us who have been hoping we might be able to use both systems, well looks like we are out of luck - at least for now.

...with all the money Disney has been putting into new interactive standyby lines, doesn't it seem to indicate that they are anticipating more people waiting in these lines and they are looking for ways to keep us happy while we wait? .

Yeah, it will be "more fair". Doesn't matter if, some can't ride roller coasters or have no desire to ride Dumbo. We will use less fast passes, than the "average" guest? Guess, not everyone will be overjoyed.

Disney's "enhancing" the standby line because that's where the masses will be...

PS Of course, it's only fair!

 

[Dreamer & Wisher]

Very interesting points being raised. I really hope Fastpass doesn't become something we have to pay extra for. We won't be able to afford to pay extra. My husband and daughter get a Six Flags season pass. They don't pay extra for the Flashpass and only ride 3 or 4 rides when they visit because the lines are so long. We don't get passes for myself and our 8 year old because we don't like roller coasters.

The problem I see with giving Deluxe guests more Fastpass + is it would probably bother annual pass holders and FL resident pass holders. How would they be able to get more? How much of Disney's profits comes from them? If they end up standing in line more they might not buy passes every year.

 

[Tekneek]

Both may coexist for a short time...
Maybe.

We don't know if guests can get additional FP's the day-of at the parks in addition to
the reserved FP+.

According to the Terms of Service for My Disney Experience, once you are on paperless tickets you will no longer be able to participate in the standard FASTPASS service at the parks. You become FP+ only at that point.

I think at least 3 per day, limited to one park, will be built in. I expect they will start selling the ability to schedule more eventually, maybe in 2014.

The apparent limitation, from my reading of the TOS, to one park per day for FP+ is annoying. I have used FP in 3 different parks on the same day before and don't like the sound of that.

 

[Mitch_in_GA]

Instead of FP+, I wish the "suits" would task the "padawans" with the following: Identify new and creative headline attractions at some or all of the individual parks. Instead of (or in addition to) state-of-the-art queue management systems, build additional attractions to further distribute guests throughout the parks. For example, as it relates to the daily TSMM stampede, is it possible that Disney execs have thrown in the towel? i.e. "since it's really hard to devise and create other rides that'll be equally popular, let's leverage technology to make the existing line manageable". I know I'm putting a simplistic spin on the issue, but with additional headliners we superusers wouldn't feel pinched by some of the proposed guidelines associated with FP+.

 

[mom2rtk]

Instead of FP+, I wish the "suits" would task the "padawans" with the following: Identify new and creative headline attractions at some or all of the individual parks.

I think they arleady did that at the MK. The new headliners are the Tiki Room and Philharmagic.

Sorry Disney_Princess83!

 

[TLSnell1981]

I think they arleady did that at the MK. The new headliners are the Tiki Room and Philharmagic.

Sorry Disney_Princess83!

Sad, but true.

 

[Tekneek]

For example, as it relates to the daily TSMM stampede, is it possible that Disney execs have thrown in the towel? i.e. "since it's really hard to devise and create other rides that'll be equally popular, let's leverage technology to make the existing line manageable". I know I'm putting a simplistic spin on the issue, but with additional headliners we superusers wouldn't feel pinched by some of the proposed guidelines associated with FP+.

They are unable, or unwilling, to address the crowd flow problems at DHS (which are significant). This problem of limited attractions also involves at least one attraction being shuttered in a "seasonal" status. Whether or not it would be popular, having one more thing open could only help. They are unwilling to finance that. The DHS experience has been degraded for me, once TSMM opened. The resulting crowd flow problem has had a negative effect on the entire park.

 

[Wood Nymph]

This is insane how this rumor about deluxe resorts guests has gotten started. First of all, there are no plans for people who stay at deluxe resorts to get extra fast passes. Someone just used that scenario as an example, and it has taken off.

If Disney wanted to make a little extra money by giving out extra fast passes for an additional cost, they would not use a small pool of guests, like deluxe guests, to do it. They would pick a much bigger pool of guests so that they get the maximum dollar. Besides, filling their deluxe resorts with people who only want to get the extra fast passes would not be beneficial to them. They would run the risk of alienating the clientele who choose the deluxe resorts for a reason that has nothing to do with getting a couple of extra rides a day.

Besides, it appears as if the reason Disney is moving to this new system is to make the fast pass system easier for families. They want to give the family a chance to ride a few popular rides without having to run a race at rope drop. Increasing the fast pass lines and thereby reducing the chance the family is going to be able to ride a few favorites is the opposite of what they want to do.

They aren't going to give extra fast passes to deluxe resort guests. So let's drop that rumor.

Let's start a new rumor. One that makes more sense.

 

[mom2rtk]

Besides, filling their deluxe resorts with people who only want to get the extra fast passes would not be beneficial to them. They would run the risk of alienating the clientele who choose the deluxe resorts for a reason that has nothing to do with getting a couple of extra rides a day.

You mean the guests at the deluxe resorts woudl be offended by all the rollercoaster riding riffraff moving in?

Seriously?

 

[Wood Nymph]

You mean the guests at the deluxe resorts woudl be offended by all the rollercoaster riding riffraff moving in?

Seriously?

Yep.

They'll bring big cases of hot dogs and ketchup so they can eat in their rooms to save money. And they'll pile 8 people in the room, hiding the air matresses in the day time. And don't forget that they also play loud music and yell in the halls.

I can see it now.