More updated Fastpass+ information

[Planogirl]

I agree that this will be discussed endlessly no matter what actually rolls out. I suspect that this will confuse the casual visitor even more than the current system particularly when the website won't work. But time will tell.

I doubt that Disney will ever go to a tiered system. That seems to go against what the company has been all about. I don't agree with Universal's decision to omit their new budget resort.

 

[Brian Noble]

There are threads on here that report paid VIP tours that include unlimited line access.

There is. AllEars has the details.
http://allears.net/btp/tours.htm#vip

Short version: $295/hour, minimum six hours, maximum 10 people, unlimited access to FP return lines.

 

[glamdring269]

For a family of four from Nashville to Orlando, flights on Southwest run about 2k.

It's definitely not cheap. I'm facing the same (from Nashville as well) and just wanted to let you know that there are some good mileage deals on Chase Southwest cards right now that you might want to look into if rewards chasing is something you're interested in.

 

[Turn the Page]

There are threads on here that report paid VIP tours that include unlimited line access. Not true front of the line access granted. I can also confirm that a friend of my daughters and her family have enjoyed such perks, however they are actual Disney VIP's so I don't know if it was paid.

This is what I was trying to say.


Search some of the threads on early WDW ticket pricing. You used to have to buy ticket books with actual ride tickets in them. If your tickets ran out you were either done or you had to pay more. There have long been things like e-ticket nights, paid parties, EMH etc. that give improved access based on the ability to pay extra or where you stay.

Early tickets were like that, yes. But, it hasn't been that way in decades. And even when it was that way, everyone had the opportunity to go on every ride. If people staying in deluxe resorts get unlimited fast passes and choose to go on BTMRR or Splash Mountain 15 times in one day that means there are fewer opportunities for others to go on it simply because they aren't staying in a deluxe resort.

With the fast pass system that is currently in place, it is also true that some people can utilitze it to their benefit and hit the headliners multiple times and it may be to the exclusion of others. However, the key difference there is that everyone currently has the ability to use the fast pass system, some just don't want to or refuse to pay attention to what is going on around them to learn how to use it.

Equating unlimited fast passes for deluxe hotel guests to things like eride nights or hard ticket events like MNSSHP is not an accurate comparison. Every guest staying at a Disney resort had the opportunity to pay the $10 or whatever it was to stay in the park after hours (at least I think it was only for resort guests, someone correct me if it was open to all park goers or not please). Everyone has the opportunity to buy a ticket to MNSSHP if they so choose. I still do not think it is acceptable to allow people spending more money to stay at a nicer deluxe resort to have greater access to the rides in the parks.

If a middle class family of 4 decides to go to Disney World it is quite likely that they do not have the same opportunity to stay at GF and get unlimited fast passes because it's cost prohibitive for most families. However, the middle class family of four is paying the same price for park tickets. So why should they receive less access to rides when they are paying the same price to get into the park? Assuming they are staying at a value resort they already have fewer perks in the way of crappier location, crappier pool, crappier dining options, crappier room, crappier transportation, and crappier beds, crappier decor, and crappier ameneties. Why should they also get crappier access to rides?

However, this will likely be something we will have to agree to disagree on.

 

[Turn the Page]

There is. AllEars has the details.
http://allears.net/btp/tours.htm#vip

Short version: $295/hour, minimum six hours, maximum 10 people, unlimited access to FP return lines.

Ok, again...that means they get to get in the FP line, not that they get to skip the line altogether.

 

[Turn the Page]

I agree that this will be discussed endlessly no matter what actually rolls out. I suspect that this will confuse the casual visitor even more than the current system particularly when the website won't work. But time will tell.

I doubt that Disney will ever go to a tiered system. That seems to go against what the company has been all about. I don't agree with Universal's decision to omit their new budget resort.

I agree totally. Especially the bolded sentence. I just tried explaining the difference between FP and what FP+ is looking like to my mom this afternoon and she just threw her hands in the air and said "that's way too complicated, who wants to deal with all that!!" And the woman is a travel agent too.

 

[Brian Noble]

that means they get to get in the FP line, not that they get to skip the line altogether.

The only people who are backdoor'd are folks for whom it would be too disruptive to have them in the open. Think Presidents and pop stars. It is operationally very intrusive, and doing it on a non-trivial basis would have a pretty big impact on ride capacity. In other words, if it were ever offered, it would be astronomically expensive (assuming you don't think $1800 is astronomical.)

 

[Turn the Page]

The only people who are backdoor'd are folks for whom it would be too disruptive to have them in the open. Think Presidents and pop stars. It is operationally very intrusive, and doing it on a non-trivial basis would have a pretty big impact on ride capacity. In other words, if it were ever offered, it would be astronomically expensive (assuming you don't think $1800 is astronomical.)

Exactly. While I don't necessarily think it's fair for people on VIP tours to get unlimited FP access the small number of people on such tours make the effect on others guests minimal so it's not an issue to me.

And, since you ask if I think $1800 is astronomical, I am a single mother in grad school. To me, $100 for most things is astonomical.

 

[glamdring269]

If a middle class family of 4 decides to go to Disney World it is quite likely that they do not have the same opportunity to stay at GF and get unlimited fast passes because it's cost prohibitive for most families. However, the middle class family of four is paying the same price for park tickets. So why should they receive less access to rides when they are paying the same price to get into the park? Assuming they are staying at a value resort they already have fewer perks in the way of crappier location, crappier pool, crappier dining options, crappier room, crappier transportation, and crappier beds, crappier decor, and crappier ameneties. Why should they also get crappier access to rides?

However, this will likely be something we will have to agree to disagree on.

I think you're just trying too hard to keep the hotel and parks distinct. They're really not. If Disney sells a package that includes the hotel + park entrance + additional park perks then it really has nothing to do with the price of park entry being the same. Technically it means the price of entry into the park with the extra perk is more expensive for the person staying in the hotel that is included in the package.

Besides, they already do something like this now... EMH. Same concept only it now brings the on-site hotel tier into play. I see nothing wrong with it personally.

In other words, if a family stays offsite (any "class"), but is able to afford a park tickets, why shouldn't they also get EMH? They paid the same ticket price as the Value resort family.

 

[Brian Noble]

If a middle class family of 4 decides to go to Disney World it is quite likely that they do not have the same opportunity to stay at GF and get unlimited fast passes because it's cost prohibitive for most families. However, the middle class family of four is paying the same price for park tickets. So why should they receive less access to rides when they are paying the same price to get into the park?

Because it is possible that The Walt Disney Company might make more money this way. If they think they will, they'll try it. If they don't think they will, they won't.

Repeat that to yourself whenever you wonder why Disney does something that seems unfair, unjust, or just plain mean. It will help. Disney is in the business of selling happiness for a profit. That's closely related to, but not exactly the same as: "Disney wants me to be happy."

The good news is that, more than just about any other theme park operator, Disney actively considers "good will" as a tangible part of their balance sheet, so they tend to be more cautious about things that might obviously tick off their guests.

 

[Turn the Page]

I think you're just trying too hard to keep the hotel and parks distinct. They're really not. If Disney sells a package that includes the hotel + park entrance + additional park perks then it really has nothing to do with the price of park entry being the same. Technically it means the price of entry into the park with the extra perk is more expensive for the person staying in the hotel that is included in the package.

Besides, they already do something like this now... EMH. Same concept only it now brings the on-site hotel tier into play. I see nothing wrong with it personally.

In other words, if a family stays offsite (any "class"), but is able to afford a park tickets, why shouldn't they also get EMH? They paid the same ticket price as the Value resort family.

The resorts are separate from the parks. If they weren't, people would have to stay at a Disney property to be able to go to the parks.

And even with EMH everyone still has the same access to all the rides. The problem with tiering FPs and allowing deluxe resort guests to have more of them what you will run into is that a bunch of people staying at one of the all star resorts will want to be able to ride BTMRR or Splash Mountain but will be told there aren't any FPs because the rich people at the deluxes took them all. Or worse, that they can't ride at all because all the people at the deluxes reserved all the capacity for the day. That is my concern with this concept.

 

[Robo]

I think you're just trying too hard to keep the hotel and parks distinct. They're really not. If Disney sells a package that includes the hotel + park entrance + additional park perks then it really has nothing to do with the price of park entry being the same.

Technically it means the price of entry into the park with the extra perk is more expensive for the person staying in the hotel that is included in the package.

Technically, I don't see that at all.

Like saying when you have an ADR at Cindy's Breakfast, it's a more expensive cost to enter MK that day.

Beside's, what it costs to enter a park is on a huge "sliding scale" depending on how many "days"
you purchased on a MYW ticket ,
or if you have an AP, or if you'e using a Non-expiring ticket that you bought in, say, 2004.

 

[Brian Noble]

It's also worth pointing out that every other major amusement park operator in the US (Universal, Cedar Fair, Sea World/Busch, Herschend, and Six Flags) openly sells expedited access to their attractions during the regular operating day in some way or another. It has not had a materially negative impact on their attendance, and has been positive for their overall bottom lines.

The real question is what is taking Disney so long to join in.

 

[Turn the Page]

Because it is possible that The Walt Disney Company might make more money this way. If they think they will, they'll try it. If they don't think they will, they won't.

Repeat that to yourself whenever you wonder why Disney does something that seems unfair, unjust, or just plain mean. It will help. Disney is in the business of selling happiness for a profit. That's closely related to, but not exactly the same as: "Disney wants me to be happy."

The good news is that, more than just about any other theme park operator, Disney actively considers "good will" as a tangible part of their balance sheet, so they tend to be more cautious about things that might obviously tick off their guests.

I am aware they are in business to make money. However, there are far more people that can't afford to stay at a deluxe resort than can afford it so if Disney goes with this chances are they will tick off a larger portion of their potential guests. The people who stay at GF certainly have more money to spend but the 6000 families that probably stay at GF for a week each year are not going to spend more than the 50,000 families that may stay at a value resort for a week each year. If those 50,000 families get ticked off because they are being treated like second class citizens then Disney is going to lose money.

 

[Nancy F]

Just went through the thread... my head hurts.
Nancy

 

[Turn the Page]

It's also worth pointing out that every other major amusement park operator in the US (Universal, Cedar Fair, Sea World/Busch, Herschend, and Six Flags) openly sells expedited access to their attractions during the regular operating day in some way or another. It has not had a materially negative impact on their attendance, and has been positive for their overall bottom lines.

The real question is what is taking Disney so long to join in.

Again, Universal sells the expedited tickets as an add on to the regular admission ticket. Meaning everyone has the same opportunity to get it if they so choose. Connecting expedited or fast pass line access to those who stay in deluxe resorts means not everyone has access.

 

[AThrillingChase]

Exactly. While I don't necessarily think it's fair for people on VIP tours to get unlimited FP access the small number of people on such tours make the effect on others guests minimal so it's not an issue to me.

And, since you ask if I think $1800 is astronomical, I am a single mother in grad school. To me, $100 for most things is astonomical.

I agree with you both. I have stayed at all levels of resorts, you pay more, you get more. My concern was solely where I pay the same ticket price, but allll those deluxe guests getting in the FP line have a big effect on SB wait times, effectively making me pay the same for less attraction time. I am less concerned by those that buy vip packages, that are limited in availability and therefore have little effect on my ticket value. If you pay more for your actual ticket/access and it does not heavily disrupt mine because it is limited in number, i have less of an argument with that.

I do not know the exact number of front of the line passes US
sells in addition to hotel guest access, but I assume it is limited in number of people that can purchase. That is how cedar point operates theirs, only say, 100 people can purchase, for example. WDW has a significant amount of deluxe hotels though, and villas, and...that is just...a LOT of people with lots of FP! I couldnt find a smiley for "aaaah!" but thats my facial expression picturing it!

 

[Brian Noble]

However, there are far more people that can't afford to stay at a deluxe resort than can afford it so if Disney goes with this chances are they will tick off a larger portion of their potential guests.

But if they only tick off those guests a little bit, and not a lot, it's a net win.

This is the calculus in all of these decisions: Disney gets a little bit more revenue here, but loses a little bit of goodwill there. Based on their best estimate of how much more revenue, and how much goodwill, they will either do it, or they won't.

As I wrote above, Disney takes goodwill very seriously, so they tend to move very cautiously when it comes to these sorts of things. But, if you ask yourself whether or not the average theme park does better or worse financially when they sell expedited access directly or indirectly, the answer is obvious and overwhelming: they do better. Universal and Six Flags have been doing this for years now, and have only been expanding it. Assuming they do not have rocks for brains, it must be working for them. Sea World/Busch, Herschend, and Cedar Fair are all a little later to the game, but all of them have gone this way. They haven't had a mass exodus of guests, even after many years of doing this, and they are making more money.

 

[AThrillingChase]

It's also worth pointing out that every other major amusement park operator in the US (Universal, Cedar Fair, Sea World/Busch, Herschend, and Six Flags) openly sells expedited access to their attractions during the regular operating day in some way or another. It has not had a materially negative impact on their attendance, and has been positive for their overall bottom lines.

The real question is what is taking Disney so long to join in.

Agreed. And it does not have a large effect because they are limited in number. WDW just has too many deluxe level guests for it to be pulled off without a hitch under the theory we currently are discussing. If it was just concierge level, I probably wouldn't be bothered at all, honestly. That is a much smaller and less intimidating number!

 

[2Tiggies]

It's also worth pointing out that every other major amusement park operator in the US (Universal, Cedar Fair, Sea World/Busch, Herschend, and Six Flags) openly sells expedited access to their attractions during the regular operating day in some way or another. It has not had a materially negative impact on their attendance, and has been positive for their overall bottom lines.

The real question is what is taking Disney so long to join in.

I believe the real answer is in Walt Disney's intention for the parks to be about people; about families; about people of all ages being able to have fun - together. I do believe that is why Disney has not jumped on that bandwagon. In so doing that would effectively crush the very dream that Disney was built on.