More menu items excluded from Dining plan?!

[LuluLovesDisney]

I'm confused are you subtracting food twice off your room rate (value of food eaten AND $50/day for food) Not questioning your rationalization which is fine, just can't follow your logic with it if I'm reading it right

No no no. That's not how I'm calculating it! My goal is to cut back on the effective cost of the room (since I could be staying at OKW on rented points for about half the price of a Value Resort).
Take the cost per night of the room.
Subtract the value of the food eaten that day on the plan.
Voila! Net room rate

$86.24 per night (about)
Subtract, say, $50 per day for food/tax/tip ($2 snack + $10 c/s meal + $38 t/s meal).
My room is 'costing' me a mere $36.24 per night!

It's all in how you rationalize it :

No, value of food eaten = $50.00

She subtracted twice because the first part was an explanation of her rationalization.

The second part was applying that using hypothetical numbers.

Here "cost per night" as in rationalization A = $86.24

"value of food eaten" as in rationalization A = $50.00

"Net room rate" as in rationalization A = $36.24

She figures "Net room rate" as the number over and above the amount she would have spent on the food she ate.

Hope that helped!

 

[Dizz(n)ey]

Lewis writes: "Most price fixed menus have surcharges for some menu items" and later adds the charming "use a little sense".

Well gosh, Lewis, your right! Many price fixed menus do have surcharges and other limitations! That is why I specifically ASKED about those sorts of limitations WHEN I BOOKED THE PACKAGE.

Well if you want to get TECHNICAL

you PAID for a plan that is subject to change.
It was written down before the purchase....If the CM told you something which is incorrect shame on them....but you've obviously done your homework and I am confident you knew the SUBJECT TO CHANGE stipulation when purchasing the plan

 

[Dizz(n)ey]

crisi- You could be well be right. We just don't need the hassle on our vacation-- We do no typically book "packages" at all for just this reason. We want what we want when we want it. When I brought this "free" dining offer to my husband he was wary because of the potential limitations. He lives for Haagen Daas bars and Mickey bars on vacation!

.

Then personally I wouldn't purchase a plan THAT IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE if you want it your way...

If the plan said...THIS PLAN IS HEREBY SET IN STONE....then you'd have an argument.

If you are going to moan over 4-5 items out of 400.....then that's just too unfortunate.

 

[Dizz(n)ey]

Ok- now I see posters sliding toward the position that Disney CMs can't be reasonably expected to provide accurate information in their own department. If your JOB is to sell the product (reservations) than you MUST give accurate information about the product---

If your arguement is that they have to tell you every detail....even those details are......SUBJECT TO CHANGE


They could tell you that everything is included when you book...and 5 days later they could tell you that only 3 items in all of disney are included...

You have the right to cancel.....I don't see the big ordeal ????

 

[sammax]

After reading the new revised pamphlet - now I may be having a Dory moment here -but didn't the CS include a side dish before?

When I went in May, CS did include a side dish, because we had one for almost every meal.

 

[aubriee]

IMHO, if you are paying rack rate for the room, then you are not getting the meal plan "free". It may be a good deal for some, but it is not "free".

I agree. We had a room already booked with an AP discount. I was also planning to use my DDE card. However when the free dining came out it was too good to pass up, so round up buying myself a MYW ticket that I really didn't need in order to make my ticket match my son's and D-I-L's, just so we could get the free dining and cancelling the room I had booked with the AP code to rebook at rack rate.

I'm still happy with the dining plan however and if there is something we want that's not included in the plan, we'll simply be out a little extra cash. We knew when we booked it that there was a surcharge at Planet Hollywod, but still plan to eat there on our arrival day and just pay it. We knew Dole whip floats and funnel cakes aren't included, but again will pay for them. Alcoholic beverages are not included, but if my son or D-I-L want them I'll use my DDE card and again pay for them. I want them to have a cake for their anniversary the night we eat at 'Ohannas, but know pineapple is the only dessert offered, so will order them a small cake. I want that chocolate moose that's on the kid's menu at Le Cellier and know I won't be able to get it on the dining plan, but again will simply pay for it. Even with the dining plan you are going to be out some money for food. Expect it! I don't think it was designed to supply all of our eating needs/desires.

 

[WDWBetsy]

Anyone know if the dining plan states that it is subject to change without notice? If not, that may be a legal issue. If you were enticed by the plan as stated when you booked it, it cannot be changed without a disclaimer. We were able to get Sesame Place to change what was included in our APs because they failed to have a disclaimer, so it is not out of the realm of possibility, and Disney is not above the law.

Yes - on the very last page of the brochure. The original brochure had a subject to change disclaimer as well.

(copied/pasted directly from the PDF file)

Disney Dining Plan may not be sold separately, transferred, refunded or redeemed for cash in whole or in part. Theme Park admission is required for some dining locations. Advance Reservations may be required at some restaurants included in the Disney Dining Plan. Operating hours, menus, entertainment, Characters, Disney Dining Plan locations, components and terms are subject to change without notice.

Disney Dining Plan is based on the length of your package stay at your Disney Resort Hotel. The owners of the Walt Disney World® Resort shall not be responsible for the non-utilization of package components due to refurbishing, capacity, inclement weather, or any circumstance beyond their control.

 

[DeirdreTours]

Actually, guys the "subject to change at any time" in the Disney contract cannot legally apply after the last no fee cancellation date. That is, Disney cannot legally set up a one way contract: One that penalizes you $100 for change but allows Disney to make whatever changes they wish without penalty. It simply no longer meets the legal definition of a contract, which must have mutual consideration and obligation to be valid. That language protects Disney from any obligation to provide the package to future customers, but it doesn't change their legal obligation to deliver what they have sold to current customers. An "act of god" like a hurricane is an unforseeable circumstance that changes these obligations somewhat, but does not negate them entirely--hence the box lunches posted above.

Of course, that doesn't keep Disney from writing it cause clearly it is working for them-- look how many of you believe it to be an ironclad "out" for Disney to take away any number of dining options that you have already paid for. That is what we all bought- an option to choose one appetizer, one entree, one dessert, one nonalchoholic beverage from the menu fo the participating restaurants during the time of our package. (I wonder how far you would allow this to go: For example, the total packages contain the same subject to change language. If you arrived for your reservation at the GR and found you had been relocated to AllStars would you buy the "hey, it's all subject to change at any moment" argument?)

It is much like the language on the back of a valet parking ticket that attempts to claim that the valet parking company "isn't responsible for any damage to your car" -- they are STILL responsible for any damage to your car. Companies frequently directly contradict contract law in their promotional materials, receipts, etc. They no perfectly well that it has no legal meaning, but it is effective in convincing a number of consumers otherwise.

Dizz(n)ey-- I can't agree with you that a question of are there menu items excluded or not is a "detail" in a dining plan. "What food is covered?" seem like the central question in such a plan. And, to correct another poster's perception, I was not referring to the dining reservations CM, but the WDTC reservations people, the people who are actually selling the package to consumers. My expectation that those cast member give out correct information is, in my opinion, pretty reasonable.

Careful (or even casual) reading of the brochure leaves the impression that single serving menu items are included. As a careful consumer, I then verified this with the Disney employee selling the package at the time of sale. This clearly meets or exceeds any legal obligation of the buyer to vet the product. Changes beyond that point are Disney's problem.

My concern hasn't been the few items affected so far, but rather the trend I see (from reports) of Disney attempting to reclassify the product I purchased as another, narrower product. We aren't going for two months. When I posted this thread, my worst case fear was that by the time we got there the Dining package would have morphed into more of a price fixe deal where one choose from a "special" menu rather than the main menu at participating restaurants. Or that the two specific snack that my family enjoys- the Mickey bar and the HaagenDaas bar might be exluded.

Thanks everyone for participating in the thread. I think we are just kind of going around and around now, so I doubt I will post much more on the topic now. I disagree with many of you, but have enjoyed reading your opinions and you have helped to clarify mine.

 

[crisi]

All of that is a rather moot point however, unless you are willing to either argue with the manager at the restaurant (which would ruin my vacation) or threaten to take Disney to court after the fact (they'd probably just refund some of your money - but you wouldn't have gotten the vacation you wanted - if they didn't, taking Disney to court would be costly). Once you are in their clutches with a package, and past the pull out date, its probably more bother than its worth to argue.

Haagen Dazs bars should have never been included per literature (though I'd be surprised if they didn't include Mickey bars - that's the picture on their brochure) since snacks include "Frozen Ice-Cream Novelty, Popsicle or Fruit Bar." I used to work for Haagen Dazs, we'd have been insulted that our bars were "novelty" bars. We sold gormet ice cream - some of which we put on a stick.

 

[jeast]

When I went in May, CS did include a side dish, because we had one for almost every meal.

Yes! It did read that CS included an entree and side dish OR a complete combo. I remember reading that and thinking it was good 'cause you might want french fries with your ham sandwich.

 

[HayGan]

Yes! It did read that CS included an entree and side dish OR a complete combo. I remember reading that and thinking it was good 'cause you might want french fries with your ham sandwich.

No, it did not and I have the pdf copy of the original brochure to prove it. I would be more than happy to forward a copy on to anyone interested in seeing it.

 

[lillygator]

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Lewis. I also don't see that you were "lied" to; you were given an answer that corresponded to the terms of the plan at the time you asked. Disney has the right (as stated on the last page of the brochure) to change the terms and plan at any time. It is my understanding that guests are given a brochure at check-in so that they have the most updated version of the plan at that time. You can print out as many of the brochures between now and your trip and the only one that counts will be the one in effect while you're there. Even if you have that brochure, you are not guaranteed a meal in a TS restaurant you've read about. It's quite possible that some people won't be able to secure advanced reservations on the nights they need, or some restaurants may be closed due to circumstances out of Disney's control (I do remember reading about people getting box lunches during the hurricanes last year)...

I booked our trip when the plan was first introduced. Most of the Epcot WS restaurants were not included, and some of their TS restaurants required 2 TS meals. Now the majority are on the plan. It's important to remember that these restaurants are NOT owned by Disney, and could very well withdraw from the plan at any time. I would much rather they limit some specialty desserts instead of withdrawing. I have read and reread the brochure. I understand that it is subject to change.

As others have stated, Disney does not publish their menus. You can find them at allearsnet.com and see if certain things appeal to you. Yes, you can get your heart set on something on the menu, but restaurants do change their menus (case in point, the Garden Grill). That is why it is important to tell your server before ordering that you're on the plan - ask if anything is excluded and hopefully that will ease your mind.

I honestly think you're stressing way too much over this; honestly, if you're this upset now, I would hate to be the CM waiting on you if they don't let you get something you're expecting to get.

Yes, you purchased a package with a free dining component that required a rack rate for your room. But Disney can change the plan at any time, and the brochure clearly states this.

If you're not willing to understand and agree to the terms, then I have to agree: perhaps the dining plan isn't for you.

ITA - I guess I was never one to expect the "plan" would allow anything on the menu at any given time. I am sure Disney doesn't publish these menus for a reason.

Also - I have to agree with the poster who said - people were complaing that their child was now being charged as an adult at buffets now are complaining about not being able to get (adult if not offered) appetizers on the "plan"!! (not anyone specific...I am just agreeing with that poster!)

But to the OP...this is causing you much grief and stress already. This is supposed to be a vacation!! If you don't want the headaches and worries I would cancel!

 

[DeirdreTours]

The haagendaas bars are a frequent CS dessert, not a snack. The limitations on snacks are clearly listed in the brochure.

This morning I asked myself what would I do if I was unaware of this forum and simply found unnaceptable plan "changes" on arrival? And, that pretty much solved my whole issue. I would order within the confines of the plan as it was sold to me and listed in the brochure at the time of purchase and expect the plan to cover it. Period. Problem solved. I wouldn't argue- I would just point that reality out and refuse to pay additional monies for options I had already purchased.

 

[spgailjake]

most menus dont list a childrens dessert. ok i can see no appetizer for my son but does this mean he doesnt get a dessert? ok i can share mine. but what if he doesnt like/eat what i really want to order? so is it nuggets and fries and thats it?

this is giving me a headache

 

[LiteBrite]

I want that chocolate moose that's on the kid's menu at Le Cellier and know I won't be able to get it on the dining plan, but again will simply pay for it. Even with the dining plan you are going to be out some money for food. Expect it! I don't think it was designed to supply all of our eating needs/desires.

Why wouldn't you be able to get the chocolate moose on the dining plan? Has someone reported being told they couldn't?

LiteBrite

 

[InnerStrength]

Yes! It did read that CS included an entree and side dish OR a complete combo. I remember reading that and thinking it was good 'cause you might want french fries with your ham sandwich.

Maybe the dining brochure has been updated since the one that I read (from a link here on one of the threads) does not mention a side dish offered along with a counter service meal. It states a choice of entree, dessert, and non-alcoholic beverage OR a combo meal with dessert and 1 non-alcoholic beverage. The combo photo on the brochure shows a burger with fries (I am only assuming it is a combo meal as it is on 1 plate ) and a chocolate shake. I would like to think that the shake could constitute as the "beverage" as it is non-alcoholic, but to some CM's, it's probably the "dessert" as it technically has ice cream in it. Boy, by the time we go in Dec., this dining plan sounds as though it is going to be a challenge, LOL.

I for one, will carry a copy of the dining plan with us when we are dining in case some CM tries to pull a fast one - ie, "Oh No, grab bags of chips are not included". Ha, whatever!

 

[InnerStrength]

The haagendaas bars are a frequent CS dessert, not a snack. The limitations on snacks are clearly listed in the brochure.

This morning I asked myself what would I do if I was unaware of this forum and simply found unnaceptable plan "changes" on arrival? And, that pretty much solved my whole issue. I would order within the confines of the plan as it was sold to me and listed in the brochure at the time of purchase and expect the plan to cover it. Period. Problem solved. I wouldn't argue- I would just point that reality out and refuse to pay additional monies for options I had already purchased.

Deirdre,
I'm with you on this one. I sure hope that the TS meals do not become limited since part of the plan that sold me on it was the plentiful options on where we can dine at TS establishments. I can see desserts being limited to simple items at CS places, but not at TS restaurants. That's just plain silly.
To us, it doesn't really matter if our children are not allowed appetizers as they can share ours, but I will be firm about the fact that the plan states that children are allowed a dessert along with their TS meal. If the TS places do not wish to provide a separate dessert menu for children, then they should not have an issue allowing a child a dessert from the normal menu - simple as that. Children should not be excluded from enjoying a dessert just because a restaurant does not offer a simple scoop of ice cream or something else "kid-friendly". I also will carry a copy of the dining plan brochure in case any issues arise while we are on vacation. Better to be safe than sorry.

 

[HayGan]

I also will carry a copy of the dining plan brochure in case any issues arise while we are on vacation. Better to be safe than sorry.

I think that this is GREAT advice for anyone who will be using the dining plan

 

[Lewisc]

Wow, if the menu said an item wasn't included or the waiter said there was an up-charge you'd order it and refuse to pay? That would make for a fun vacation. You'd have a point if the menu didn't say anything and the waiter was silent when you ordered the item, assuming you didn't lie when he asked if you were on the dining plan.

The brochure promises you a dessert. It doesn't say you're entitled to any dessert on the menu, just a dessert. I don't have a problem if the only CS restaurant that offers Haggan Daz bars decides that they're not covered since it's over and above what CS restaurants are generally offering for dessert.

You really should re-think your vacation. Sounds like you're getting much too stressed out over something that may never happen or really shouldn't ruin your vacation. You already said your youngest would prefer IOA. MYW Dining is a good deal but you would get far better food if you take your vacation money and spend it in restaurants near where you live.

BTW I wouldn't worry about dessert on the children's menu. Allearsnet is not an official Disney site. I've NEVER seen a restaurant fail to offer a dessert on a children's menu. Might just be a cookie, a scoop of ice cream or jello. Conversely I don't it's common to see an appetizer on a mac cheese type of a children's menu.

This morning I asked myself what would I do if I was unaware of this forum and simply found unnaceptable plan "changes" on arrival? And, that pretty much solved my whole issue. I would order within the confines of the plan as it was sold to me and listed in the brochure at the time of purchase and expect the plan to cover it. Period. Problem solved. I wouldn't argue- I would just point that reality out and refuse to pay additional monies for options I had already purchased.

 

[vatmark]

I would love to be a salesman for some of you people. I would be raking in the dough.

Those of you who are on the dining plan and think it is totally okay for Disney to make any changes it wants to the dining plan.. How would you be feeling if you went to Disney and were told that disney changed the dining plan and now all you get is a bag of chips? Sorry...Disney is allowed to change the plan to what ever they want, you can't get a refund on the plan because it's too late, and you can't sue disney because it would cost too much. It's just so ridiculous that people think this is okay.

Annie