More menu items excluded from Dining plan?!

[ktink]

We had signed up for the dining plan before it was free and was lucky enough to revise our package to the free dining w/out any problems. The way I look at it is we've only been to WDW once, last Sept and didn't eat at any of the TS restaurants because we were trying to save $. Well I'm very pleased to be able to try several restaurants that we wouldn't have tried w/out the dining plan. And it does seem alot is up to the CM's discretion so I certainly hope we encounter the "good" CM's. I can see where some limitations are getting to be a hassle because I was planning on paying for this plan and if I had paid instead of the "free" then I would be upset a little more. Since it's free to us at this point, it's easier to just say maybe next time. But regardless of what profit Disney makes they do need to get all the kinks out. I know when we go on vacation, we don't want to be told that we can't have something that we were led to believe was free.

We have only planned on using the plan as a credit per person because I don't have the time or energy to figure out how to work the system. For me it's just easier to know I have x amount of credits and we can eat here and be done with it. But more power to the ones that have used it to suit their needs.

 

[DeirdreTours]

crisi- You could be well be right. We just don't need the hassle on our vacation-- We do no typically book "packages" at all for just this reason. We want what we want when we want it. When I brought this "free" dining offer to my husband he was wary because of the potential limitations. He lives for Haagen Daas bars and Mickey bars on vacation!

I guess part of the reason my reaction is so strong is that he asked me about just the sort of nickel and dime limitations that now seem to be rolling out -I in turn made sure to ask Disney about limitations and then assured him that he would be able to order as he wanted and no be limited to 'this plan dessert" or that "plan entree".
So, now I find myself in the position of having to backtrack and say "Maybe yes, maybe no and no one will tell me for sure!" I don't like feeling that I have inadvertantly misled him and talked us into changing our original plans for a nonexistant "savings".

 

[Paul in CT]

IMHO, if you are paying rack rate for the room, then you are not getting the meal plan "free". It may be a good deal for some, but it is not "free".

 

[Pedler]

crisi- You could be well be right. We just don't need the hassle on our vacation-- We do no typically book "packages" at all for just this reason. We want what we want when we want it. When I brought this "free" dining offer to my husband he was wary because of the potential limitations. He lives for Haagen Daas bars and Mickey bars on vacation!

DeirdeTours I think you have perfectly identified the type of person that should not use the dinning plan. I think the problem is that there are some people that are like yourself and want what they want when they want it without hassels that are trying to accomplish that with the dinning plan. This plan is not for everyone and people shouldn't try to force the dinning plan to work in a situation where it doesn't.

For those of you that think it is a snap for Disney to get all CM's on the same page and provide up to the minute information on what is or is not included or has up charges or whatever you should think of the logistics that you are talking about. First from what I understand getting consitent reliable answers from CM's is a problem across many aspects of Disney dinning and elsewhere, not just the dinning plan. BTW this problem is not unique to Disney.

As for up to the minute information on the limitations I think the only major problems I have heard about this comes from the places that Disney does not own. Many of these places were not even on the dinning plan initially. I am sure they just view it as a paid voucher from Disney at a set amount. If they change thier menu's, alter what is or is not included I don't think Disney is going to have a lot of luck getting them to provide Disney with up to the minute information. Come on. Disney can't even provide on line menus for its own restuarants.

Like I said. If you are very particular about what you want and are not flexible then this plan is most likely not for you. If on the other hand you view it as having some potential cost savings and having most of your food budget taken care of up front and are flexible this plan could really work for you. The biggest problem is people trying to make it something that it is not.

 

[DiscussDisney]

Clearly there is a HUGE lack of communication on the part of Disney to their CM's. I think what we are reading on these boards are all isolated cases. Family #1 got an appy for a kid at Le Cellier, but Family #2 didn't. Family #1 got an Apple Tart for dessert at Morocco, but Family #2 didn't. I don't necessarily think Disney will be making huge changes/limitations to this plan in 2005 (the year is already 1/2 over)...but of course, I could be wrong. Overall, I do think much of the problems exist because of the lack of communication between Disney and their employees. It is obvious that many of the CM's (at CRO and in the parks/hotels) are not clear about the MYW Dining policy.

 

[crisi]

crisi- You could be well be right. We just don't need the hassle on our vacation-- We do no typically book "packages" at all for just this reason. We want what we want when we want it. When I brought this "free" dining offer to my husband he was wary because of the potential limitations. He lives for Haagen Daas bars and Mickey bars on vacation!

I guess part of the reason my reaction is so strong is that he asked me about just the sort of nickel and dime limitations that now seem to be rolling out -I in turn made sure to ask Disney about limitations and then assured him that he would be able to order as he wanted and no be limited to 'this plan dessert" or that "plan entree".
So, now I find myself in the position of having to backtrack and say "Maybe yes, maybe no and no one will tell me for sure!" I don't like feeling that I have inadvertantly misled him and talked us into changing our original plans for a nonexistant "savings".

It is frustrating to be told one thing and then experience (or hear others experience) another. But we need to remember that CMs are (for the most part) not Disney management, don't make decisions, and what they tell us is not enforceable policy. "But Karen in dining said" is not going to hold water - Karen in Dining doesn't have the authority to say anything that is binding. You might have more luck if you manage to get something in writing, but even then, what you may accomplish is getting the cast member who signed it a reprimand.

 

[kaytieeldr]

:You probably should just cancel your trip. You're setting yourself up for a major disappointment. It sounds like the major purpose of your trip is to use the dining plan. Even a change in the menu may be enough to upset your plans. Does it really matter if a restaurant drops the menu item you're planning on ordering or surcharges it? Either way you won't be a happy camper.

Funny thing - the MYW Dining Plan really IS why I'm going; well, why I moved my trip up several months
I expect to be able to get at least the value of the plan in food. Anything more is just, um, what's the word... a bonus, I guess. I do plan to maybe try some foods I've never had before, particularly appetizers at one or two TS restaurants. Now, if Disney changed the plan to restrict it to certain dishes (one from column A, one from column b, etc, kind of thing - and each column only has two or three choices) I'd be extremely upset.
But I've read the 'rules'; I've read about the current restrictions,,, and I can live with them! Except maybe the baklava. Anybody going to be in Epcot over Labor Day weekend and want a free dessert?

 

[DeirdreTours]

Ok- now I see posters sliding toward the position that Disney CMs can't be reasonably expected to provide accurate information in their own department. If your JOB is to sell the product (reservations) than you MUST give accurate information about the product---

The idea that Disney is just "too big" to train it's staff adequately is just ludicrious. Disney just hasn't made getting accurate info out a priority. I don't think they are deliberately misleading people, but I think that there are certainly many Disney employees aware that there is this issue (sales/brochures telling folks one thing and the restaurants another)-- and it doesn't matter enough to them to fix it (yet).

And your observation that we are not "package" types is right on-- And I don't feel like I am trying to force or manipulate a product to me and mine. I feel like I was basically lied to about the product (although I think the lie was accidental on the CM's part) and materially misled by the promotional materials (this I think is more deliberate, that is, I am pretty sure that Disney knew precisely what it was offering and is now changing the offering).

 

[Disneysnel]

After reading the new revised pamphlet - now I may be having a Dory moment here -but didn't the CS include a side dish before?

I think I will be pretty much happy with whatever I get on the free dining, as long as I still get to choose from the regular menu ( I did pay for ithe dining plan but was refunded after the free plan was announced) my only fear is that we wind up with special menus in which to chose from, with like 3 choices. Now I would not be too happy with that considering I am staying at the BWV and I could have rented points for a LOT less than I am paying thru CRO.
We will not be ordering the most expensive (DH luvs burgers and DSis loves pasta) entree's or desserts - but I would still like to be able to choose from a regular menu.

There are 3 adults in my party and no children but I would say there is NOWAY Disney would deny a little one a dessert! That would be horrible and I pity the fool (CM) who tries it within ear shot of my sister!

I am still counting on a magical time and I am sure it will be but I am wondering now if I didn't make the wrong decision by going thru CRO on the plan .

I paid about 4550.00 for 3 adults (8 nights BWV 1 bdrm) with 7 day MYW tickets and free dining (that includes first night- room only- at ASSports).

Had I rented points: 2740.00 (with all 9 nights in a BWV 1 bdrm) with the same tickets that would have given me about 1800.00 for food or about 60.00 per person per day for food.

We only eat breakfast and dinner - noway we could eat 3 meals a day.
So maybe, even if they do print us a special menu I am still about even?

Please somebody reassure me I made the right decision - - the other 2 in my party are counting on me to plan them a magical vacation!

 

[SnowWitch]

I'm sorry if I'm repeating but I got tired of reading the posts, very similiar to the thread from a recent visitor to the world. People wonder why Disney is starting to limit items well 1. The fact they are a huge business who is there for the sole purpose of making money comes to mind! (And before anyone starts with the ...well they should be more specific or tell us well I'm sure like with all other things Disney it probably states on the literature "may be changed at any time blah blah blah....) 2. Read some of the past posts....example "Where are the most expensive menu items" this one I actually read. People have abused the system and now everyone egts to pay for it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

IMHO, if you are paying rack rate for the room, then you are not getting the meal plan "free". It may be a good deal for some, but it is not "free".

No no no. That's not how I'm calculating it! My goal is to cut back on the effective cost of the room (since I could be staying at OKW on rented points for about half the price of a Value Resort).
Take the cost per night of the room.
Subtract the value of the food eaten that day on the plan.
Voila! Net room rate
$86.24 per night (about)
Subtract, say, $50 per day for food/tax/tip ($2 snack + $10 c/s meal + $38 t/s meal).
My room is 'costing' me a mere $36.24 per night!

It's all in how you rationalize it

 

[HayGan]

After reading the new revised pamphlet - now I may be having a Dory moment here -but didn't the CS include a side dish before?

No - It did not Counter service has always been listed as 1 entree, 1 dessert and 1 single serving non-alcoholic beverage or 1 complete meal combo with dessert and 1 single serving non-alcoholic beverage

 

[DeirdreTours]

I'm sorry if I'm repeating but I got tired of reading the posts, very similiar to the thread from a recent visitor to the world. People wonder why Disney is starting to limit items well 1. The fact they are a huge business who is there for the sole purpose of making money comes to mind! (And before anyone starts with the ...well they should be more specific or tell us well I'm sure like with all other things Disney it probably states on the literature "may be changed at any time blah blah blah....) 2. Read some of the past posts....example "Where are the most expensive menu items" this one I actually read. People have abused the system and now everyone egts to pay for it.

A bit OT, but I think it is weird that you find the business position-- summerized here as Anything for a buck! , to be perfectly acceptable but the consumer trying to maximize their value received is "abusing" the system.

I don't defend either, but really, don't you think that they are both pursueing their own interests within the bounds of the law and are morally equivalent? If business has an morally acceptable imperative to make the maximum profit doesn't the consumer have a morally acceptable imperative to maximize value in their own purchasing decisions?

 

[Pedler]

Ok- now I see posters sliding toward the position that Disney CMs can't be reasonably expected to provide accurate information in their own department. If your JOB is to sell the product (reservations) than you MUST give accurate information about the product---

The idea that Disney is just "too big" to train it's staff adequately is just ludicrious. Disney just hasn't made getting accurate info out a priority. I don't think they are deliberately misleading people, but I think that there are certainly many Disney employees aware that there is this issue (sales/brochures telling folks one thing and the restaurants another)-- and it doesn't matter enough to them to fix it (yet).

And your observation that we are not "package" types is right on-- And I don't feel like I am trying to force or manipulate a product to me and mine. I feel like I was basically lied to about the product (although I think the lie was accidental on the CM's part) and materially misled by the promotional materials (this I think is more deliberate, that is, I am pretty sure that Disney knew precisely what it was offering and is now changing the offering).

I understand your point about being missled and that would annoy me to. I do think that it is not intentional on Disney's part. If you look at the plan as it first came out and the places included on it I can see not much that has changed, i.e. been reduced, between January 1 of this year and now. Yes, there are the Internet rumors and conflicting information form CM's about child credits and if you need only one room card for a group or each person has to have thier own card. But as far as what is covered I think deserts ad Ohana's is the only thing that has been streamlined and as some people pointed out only one desert comes as part of that meal even if you ar paying. If you want another desert you have to pay for it.

I think the problem is that now a lot more, and some would argue the best, restaurants have been added. Most if not all of the new additions are places that Disney does not own. I think this is where the confusion has come in is the rush to add these places. I would imagine that Disney offered them some sort of set amount per credit and these places thought they would do alright with that amount. Now some have reassed the situation and have altered some of the higher price offerings or extras. This isn't Disney doing it at those places. Disney has nothing to do with Marakesh offering only Baclava as a desert for counter meals. Yes, Disney could establish some sort of policy if they participate in the plan but I think Disney went looking for these places to try to sign them up not the other way around. Early on there were complaints that the only two sit down places in WS where Germany and Canada.

Good luck with your trip planning. From what it sounds like you should avoid the dinning plan as it doesn't fit your needs.

 

[WDWBetsy]

Ok- now I see posters sliding toward the position that Disney CMs can't be reasonably expected to provide accurate information in their own department. If your JOB is to sell the product (reservations) than you MUST give accurate information about the product---

The idea that Disney is just "too big" to train it's staff adequately is just ludicrious. Disney just hasn't made getting accurate info out a priority. I don't think they are deliberately misleading people, but I think that there are certainly many Disney employees aware that there is this issue (sales/brochures telling folks one thing and the restaurants another)-- and it doesn't matter enough to them to fix it (yet).

And your observation that we are not "package" types is right on-- And I don't feel like I am trying to force or manipulate a product to me and mine. I feel like I was basically lied to about the product (although I think the lie was accidental on the CM's part) and materially misled by the promotional materials (this I think is more deliberate, that is, I am pretty sure that Disney knew precisely what it was offering and is now changing the offering).

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Lewis. I also don't see that you were "lied" to; you were given an answer that corresponded to the terms of the plan at the time you asked. Disney has the right (as stated on the last page of the brochure) to change the terms and plan at any time. It is my understanding that guests are given a brochure at check-in so that they have the most updated version of the plan at that time. You can print out as many of the brochures between now and your trip and the only one that counts will be the one in effect while you're there. Even if you have that brochure, you are not guaranteed a meal in a TS restaurant you've read about. It's quite possible that some people won't be able to secure advanced reservations on the nights they need, or some restaurants may be closed due to circumstances out of Disney's control (I do remember reading about people getting box lunches during the hurricanes last year)...

I booked our trip when the plan was first introduced. Most of the Epcot WS restaurants were not included, and some of their TS restaurants required 2 TS meals. Now the majority are on the plan. It's important to remember that these restaurants are NOT owned by Disney, and could very well withdraw from the plan at any time. I would much rather they limit some specialty desserts instead of withdrawing. I have read and reread the brochure. I understand that it is subject to change.

As others have stated, Disney does not publish their menus. You can find them at allearsnet.com and see if certain things appeal to you. Yes, you can get your heart set on something on the menu, but restaurants do change their menus (case in point, the Garden Grill). That is why it is important to tell your server before ordering that you're on the plan - ask if anything is excluded and hopefully that will ease your mind.

I honestly think you're stressing way too much over this; honestly, if you're this upset now, I would hate to be the CM waiting on you if they don't let you get something you're expecting to get.

Yes, you purchased a package with a free dining component that required a rack rate for your room. But Disney can change the plan at any time, and the brochure clearly states this.

If you're not willing to understand and agree to the terms, then I have to agree: perhaps the dining plan isn't for you.

 

[calie_j]

No no no. That's not how I'm calculating it! My goal is to cut back on the effective cost of the room (since I could be staying at OKW on rented points for about half the price of a Value Resort).
Take the cost per night of the room.
Subtract the value of the food eaten that day on the plan.
Voila! Net room rate
$86.24 per night (about)
Subtract, say, $50 per day for food/tax/tip ($2 snack + $10 c/s meal + $38 t/s meal).
My room is 'costing' me a mere $36.24 per night!

It's all in how you rationalize it

I'm confused are you subtracting food twice off your room rate (value of food eaten AND $50/day for food) Not questioning your rationalization which is fine, just can't follow your logic with it if I'm reading it right

 

[Talking Hands]

Will they not make accomodations for those with special needs???

Depends. A few years ago when I got the Candlelight Processional Package at Akerhus they had 2 desserts that were allowed and would not substitute anything else including a diabetic dessert. It was too bad so sad! Needless to say I no longer bookl Akerhus for Candlelight. Germany on the other hand was quite willing to get my a diabetic dessert.

 

[crisi]

Ok- now I see posters sliding toward the position that Disney CMs can't be reasonably expected to provide accurate information in their own department. If your JOB is to sell the product (reservations) than you MUST give accurate information about the product---

The idea that Disney is just "too big" to train it's staff adequately is just ludicrious. Disney just hasn't made getting accurate info out a priority. I don't think they are deliberately misleading people, but I think that there are certainly many Disney employees aware that there is this issue (sales/brochures telling folks one thing and the restaurants another)-- and it doesn't matter enough to them to fix it (yet).

And your observation that we are not "package" types is right on-- And I don't feel like I am trying to force or manipulate a product to me and mine. I feel like I was basically lied to about the product (although I think the lie was accidental on the CM's part) and materially misled by the promotional materials (this I think is more deliberate, that is, I am pretty sure that Disney knew precisely what it was offering and is now changing the offering).

A Disney Dining CMs job is to take reservations and read their screen. Not to speculate what will or will not be included in the dining plan when you travel. If you are asking for "is this included" the best answer you can expect is "what is included now."

Not all Disney Dining CMs bother to read their screen. As changes come through, Disney trains, but not everyone remembers every bit of training they got. And some people miss the training. So occationally a CM passes information that is not current policy - because they mis-remember their training.....because they've read the dress code for California Grill so many times they don't read their screen anymore and it changed. Because they heard a rumor themselves and misremember it as fact. And there are people who go shopping for that answer, calling Disney dining until they get a CM who tells them "oh, sure, you can do that."

 

[headoflife]

A Disney Dining CMs job is to take reservations and read their screen. Not to speculate what will or will not be included in the dining plan when you travel. If you are asking for "is this included" the best answer you can expect is "what is included now."

Not all Disney Dining CMs bother to read their screen. As changes come through, Disney trains, but not everyone remembers every bit of training they got. And some people miss the training. So occationally a CM passes information that is not current policy - because they mis-remember their training.....because they've read the dress code for California Grill so many times they don't read their screen anymore and it changed. Because they heard a rumor themselves and misremember it as fact. And there are people who go shopping for that answer, calling Disney dining until they get a CM who tells them "oh, sure, you can do that."

Crisi,

While I agree that I can't expect the CMs to be psychic and tell me what will be included at some future time, I do think the vast majority of them should have the correct current info. I haven't done a scientific survey, but my personal experience has ben tha twhen I asked the same question about the dining plan of 2 different CMs on the same day, I recieved 2 opposite answers. It seems that if we tool a poll on almost any questionable issue involving the plan, about 50% of us would have been given 1 anwer and 50% the other. This indicated it is not an issue of a few confused or mistrained CMs, buta slew of them. While that is not the fault of the CMs, it leaves me under the inpression that I am getting opinion rather than policy when I call. This leads me to mistrust all the information I get from them. I am not shopping to get the answer I want if I call and ask the same question repeatedly, I am looking for some sort of consensus of opinion, which I then hope is really the polcy. That wastes everybodies time. If I could just trust that the first person I talk to has the right answer, I would only ask once!

 

[bkhibiscus]

Anyone know if the dining plan states that it is subject to change without notice? If not, that may be a legal issue. If you were enticed by the plan as stated when you booked it, it cannot be changed without a disclaimer. We were able to get Sesame Place to change what was included in our APs because they failed to have a disclaimer, so it is not out of the realm of possibility, and Disney is not above the law.