More for Less: A Theme Park Planning Strategy

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It's not my thread and not my call, but this is a great suggestion. I think it is the comparisons that are causing issues, at least for me. Mainly because I don't see how you accurately compare. No matter how nice the condo, it simply lacks some of the things you get with an on site resort and vice versa. It goes without saying food is cheaper off site, but if you try and compare a dining plan to snacks and a single meal- that's not accurate.

Just drop the comparisons altogether and show what it costs to do a vacation this way-

But when I see totals that have a bottom line of $0 spent at Disney today, I find it hard to believe that the goal is anything more than trying to drain Disney of the +'s they hand out- pardon the pun- while giving nothing in return, sort of an "I'll show them" kind of thing. And if that's the goal, my original opinion stands.

To be fair, folks have asked on the budget board if it is possible to go to the parks and spend no money outside of the cost of admission. I have commented on such threads that we have done it and how we did it. Tends to help folks see it is possible. Folks will realize their own savings of they forego XYZ, so it wasn't necessary to bring up prior spendings.

I thought Travis was also doing the same for Universal, also?

 

[Planogirl]

I just replied to that thread, but we've flown into MCO, Sanford and Tampa most recently. In all 3 cases we rented a car and our typical strategy was that my husband would get our luggage while I went to get the car. All three of those times, I had the car within about 5 minutes of my husband arriving with our luggage, so it never really slowed us down that much. Maybe we've just gotten lucky, but the car pick-up (and drop-off) all three times has been very fast and easy. I've never used Magical Express, so have no idea if there are ever wait times for that or not, but I've really never felt like picking up a rental car slowed us up much.

Drive time is drive time though right? So whether in a car or bus the drive time from airport to hotel would be the same and it would seem conceivably quicker in a car since you might not have to stop at other resorts first.

We've not done US and WDW in the same day, but on our most recent trip we stayed at Emerald Island and I think it took us about 15 - 20 minutes from the door of our house to US. I know a lot of people think that it takes all this time to drive places in Orlando, but we just have never found that to be the case in our stays.

If you join Avis, you just walk out to the lot, read the board to see which parking space your car is in and get in and drive away. No lines, no waiting.

I'm certainly not attempting to get the thread shut down. I don't think that's anyone's intention. I do think though that the motivation for both threads is to show that Disney has not only failed with FP+ but they've created the entirely opposite effect. There have been comments on this thread ( or the other, I forget) to that effect already by others- something along the lines of "unintended consequences" I believe it was. And because of your bias against FP+, along with some obvious problems with your figures and estimates, it's rather hard to believe that this is really an attempt to do more for less and more of an attempt to prove Disney's ignorance.

Can I speak for me and say okay that is the motivation? Would that be a way to get back on topic?

It's not my thread and not my call, but this is a great suggestion. I think it is the comparisons that are causing issues, at least for me. Mainly because I don't see how you accurately compare. No matter how nice the condo, it simply lacks some of the things you get with an on site resort and vice versa. It goes without saying food is cheaper off site, but if you try and compare a dining plan to snacks and a single meal- that's not accurate.

Just drop the comparisons altogether and show what it costs to do a vacation this way-

But when I see totals that have a bottom line of $0 spent at Disney today, I find it hard to believe that the goal is anything more than trying to drain Disney of the +'s they hand out- pardon the pun- while giving nothing in return, sort of an "I'll show them" kind of thing. And if that's the goal, my original opinion stands.

Personally, I don't want some of those things you get when you stay in an onsite resort. I dislike the buses and have no use for big plastic decorations. The ability to schedule FP+ at 60 days would be nice but doesn't sound like it's really necessary. I avoid the EMH parks. Am I missing anything else?

 

[Laketravis]

Ya'll are blowing my mind. If you read the start of this thread, the only cost comparison that was going to be made was against how much we used to spend. That's it. The very first post still contains that summary:

"During and after our visit I'll post performance to plan and actual costs incurred and compare that to the cost of previous trips."

The granular comparisons to specific WDW elements didn't even start until one exceptionally incessant skeptic asked for them. No, let me correct that - demanded them.

So at this point, I'm really not sure what to think. I've been insulted, I've been called a liar, and some posters continue to base arguments (and they are "arguments") on their own false facts because they either haven't read what I've posted, ignore elements of it, or confuse particular components of it with other threads (FYI: This thread is about staying one week, not two and there are no "Orbitz" deals, I don't even know how someone came up with that).

How insulting to be accused of having some cagey motivation to shed a less-than-positive light on WDW by those who would rather poke their eyes out then read such blasphemy. I assure you I would not spend my own time, my own money, and my own attention on something as lame as trying to prove a handful of internet arm chair Disney fanatics wrong or somehow defame their idol as some have suggested "might be the case".

So here's the deal. When you are spending your own time and your own money on this, feel free to put it together however you'd like and use or not use any comparisons you want. Start your own thread if you want to, it's not hard at all.

But I wanted to see if by utilizing the best that FP+ has to offer I could get more done and save money to boot. I was hoping to share that information with others, pass or fail, at my own expense. So I started this thread, I'm spending my money and my time on this, I'm willing to risk the success of our visit on this, and if you don't like how I'm doing it then please just read another thread. If that isn't good enough for you and you feel like you own these boards and want this thread closed or removed, then please just post that desire for me and everyone else to see and I'll save you the trouble and ask the Mods to delete it myself.




.

 

[WillAustin]

Yes you can save money by going from a Disney World Moderate Resort, down to an Orbitz special. Of course. Everyone knows that. But how is FP+ saving you that? Because it points out that you can do this? Everyone has known and pointed this out for years. It's not news.

In my personal situation, it is news. We don't choose to spend less just to spend less. If it diminishes the positive experience, we'd always choose to pay for the better one. FP+ has definitely lessened our WDW in-park experience compared to previous trips, so it makes sense to get what we can out of FP+ and add other activities, especially if we come out ahead on cost.

And yes, FP+ is the absolute sole reason we even consider off-site now.

In our situation now, Jade's park style that fits FP+ very well may turn out to suit us better.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I truly meant no insult .

You are bothered by all the peripheral derailment and I merely offered a suggestion I have seen successfully used elsewhere.

You are so incensed that I am not even sure you read my suggestion as it was intended. It sure put your knickers in a knot.
Frankly, I was tired of seeing the back and forth bickering over irrelevant junk. A thread that would have value will have none if you and everyone else insist on doing that.

But your thread, your rules. But continued self moderation and bickering clouds the bigger picture. It seems you enjoy the drama.

In the future, perhaps post all the posting rules on your first post as well as an invitation on who can and cannot respond.

Your framework isn't the trouble. Your moderating skills are. Only, you aren't a moderator. So no one is listening to you. I merely offered a suggestion that might have helped remove that element. You didn't have to take it. But you certainly didn't have to be a jerk about it either. I am beginning to think you enjoy the derailments.

 

[erc]

The whole "Over 40 years" thing was just bizarre. No one has yet to clarify how frequently one must visit in order to be able to use those three words.

You continually presented this as 40 years of continuous visitation. Let's face it. You have been visiting for 4 years. Less than many of us. Oh and nice Galileo gambit:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Galileo_gambit

 

[Luckybee]

In my personal situation, it is news. We don't choose to spend less just to spend less. If it diminishes the positive experience, we'd always choose to pay for the better one. FP+ has definitely lessened our WDW in-park experience compared to previous trips, so it makes sense to get what we can out of FP+ and add other activities, especially if we come out ahead on cost.

In our situation now, Jade's park style that fits FP+ very well may turn out to suit us better.

Exactly right. There are quite a few people who would have never considered an Orlando Holiday without Disney being either the only focus or at minimum the prime focus of the trip. As a direct result of fp+ that has changed the way we feel and therefore fp+ will change the way we do Orlando. What I cannot for the life of me understand is why the Disney fanboys and girls cannot simply accept that for what it is. Just like there are those for whom fp+ fits the style of touring they like to do. That would be great for them. Not for me. LT has come up with a way to make it work for him. And it will work for others who choose to do the same. We have as well found a way to make fp+ work for us though in a different way. Given a choice between the additional days it would take to do everything we would normally do or simply less time at Disney we have chosen to make Disney a small component only of future trips. Disney will get substantially less of our money and Universal will get more. Its all good.

 

[Luckybee]

I truly meant no insult .

You are bothered by all the peripheral derailment and I merely offered a suggestion I have seen successfully used elsewhere.

You are so incensed that I am not even sure you read my suggestion as it was intended. It sure put your knickers in a knot.
Frankly, I was tired of seeing the back and forth bickering over irrelevant junk. A thread that would have value will have none if you and everyone else insist on doing that.

But your thread, your rules. But continued self moderation and bickering clouds the bigger picture. It seems you enjoy the drama.

In the future, perhaps post all the posting rules on your first post as well as an invitation on who can and cannot respond.

Your framework isn't the trouble. Your moderating skills are. Only, you aren't a moderator. So no one is listening to you. I merely offered a suggestion that might have helped remove that element. You didn't have to take it. But you certainly didn't have to be a jerk about it either. I am beginning to think you enjoy the derailments.

That would have been a great idea(posting rules on who could post). Then those of us who are actually interested in the strategy could have read about it without having to hear the continuous nonsense from those who defend Disney about absolutely everything

 

[Angel Ariel]

Whether it's disparaging to FP+ really doesn't matter. Is that somehow inappropriate? It certainly provides less value for quite a number of people. Opinions are fine, but attempts to discredit someone because you don't like their opinion is pretty immature at best. As I said, there are valid reasons for disliking FP+ to the point of changing plans and spending habits. It's interesting that anyone might be afraid of that reality being discussed.

And I've never said anything about Disney failing or going back to FP-. I just say how it doesn't work for us, ending up with far less rides than we could get before. I certainly don't want them to fail. I bought their stock at $43.

Exactly.

Everyone agrees that FP+ has forced some (if not many) to change how they tour. That's not controversial, that's fact.

So what if someone, anyone, does want to show that FP+ directly caused them to change their touring habits to the point where they are no longer spending as much time at Disney (though not to the point of not going at all)? So what if they want to show/discuss how they can still get what they feel to be a great WDW experience using FP+ and yet still shortening the amount of time they spend at WDW?

All of the personal attacks and discrediting in this thread, IHO, reflect a heck of a lot more on those teaming up to search it out and post it than they do on anything else.

That the outcome (spending less time/money at WDW) is counter intuitive to what Disney wants is also not really controversial. There are many quotes from Disney execs about how they wanted MM+ to "lock people in" to their WDW, specifically so they *wouldn't* explore the other attractions in Orlando.

Is LT "trying to stick it" to Disney? Honestly I have no idea. I don't know him. Regardless, I don't particularly care what his motivation is. I'm interested in seeing how he maximizes his use of FP+ while spending less time in the parks. We have shorter trips than most here b/c of the length of tie of the AFS tickets. I'm interested to see how others (not just LT) maximize FP+ to take what will work for me from their strategies and come up with the best strategy possible for my family in November. That's all. The rest of this thread has just gotten out of hand.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

That would have been a great idea(posting rules on who could post). Then those of us who are actually interested in the strategy could have read about it without having to hear the continuous nonsense from those who defend Disney about absolutely everything

Not sure of your slur is aimed at me--but I have been seriously balancing my comments here and actually ignoring most of the derailments. In fact, I defended a few things that others have called into question.

But thank you for the eye roll. Very mature.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Exactly.

Everyone agrees that FP+ has forced some (if not many) to change how they tour. That's not controversial, that's fact.

So what if someone, anyone, does want to show that FP+ directly caused them to change their touring habits to the point where they are no longer spending as much time at Disney (though not to the point of not going at all)? So what if they want to show/discuss how they can still get what they feel to be a great WDW experience using FP+ and yet still shortening the amount of time they spend at WDW?

All of the personal attacks and discrediting in this thread, IHO, reflect a heck of a lot more on those teaming up to search it out and post it than they do on anything else.

That the outcome (spending less time/money at WDW) is counter intuitive to what Disney wants is also not really controversial. There are many quotes from Disney execs about how they wanted MM+ to "lock people in" to their WDW, specifically so they *wouldn't* explore the other attractions in Orlando.

Is LT "trying to stick it" to Disney? Honestly I have no idea. I don't know him. Regardless, I don't particularly care what his motivation is. I'm interested in seeing how he maximizes his use of FP+ while spending less time in the parks. We have shorter trips than most here b/c of the length of tie of the AFS tickets. I'm interested to see how others (not just LT) maximize FP+ to take what will work for me from their strategies and come up with the best strategy possible for my family in November. That's all. The rest of this thread has just gotten out of hand.

Very fair observation.

I do wonder what makes this thread different from other Central Florida reports that causes so much strife.

I think in part it is the OP's dismissive attitude rather than just ignoring the problem posts.

I have done my best to converse, get back on track when redirected, and DEFENDED some of what LT was questioned about.

After all the senseless back and forth, I tried to offer a helpful suggestion that was of no ill will and received a petulant smack down. Yeah, that clears it up quite nicely.

And if you notice here in what you personally seek, that would have helped in what you wanted to gain from the thread.

But whatever. This post and yours just contribute to the problem.

 

[Laketravis]

I think in part it is the OP's dismissive attitude rather than just ignoring the problem posts.

I don't think anyone with a dismissive attitude would have responded with receipts, screen shots, explanations, etc every time it was demanded they do so. But I suppose you're right, it looks like it would be best to ignore them and I'll heed your advice.

I truly meant no insult..

Honestly, you weren't even in my thoughts when I made those comments. But thanks for yours.

 

[Monykalyn]

Funny that the posts last year completely bashing FP+ (often before many had even tried the dang system) everyone was ok with people saying "well I am never going back" or "disney will get less of MY money now" and that was OK (well except for a few who just can't see Orlando as anything other than Disney) but someone attempts to trial a strategy to make both the new system work, experience more (did I miss where it said more equated to more only at Disney??) while (hopefully) putting less out of pocket overall, and maybe in the theme parks as well. At least that is what I took this thread to be. I am still interested to see how it works out as it might be worthwhile to upgrade to AP at universal just to have the flexibility as the AP rate is basically same as a 3 or 4 day ticket.

 

[dawgsgirl]

I have gradually been cutting down on spending money at Disney for a few years. It works out pretty good. I don't travel with kids so that makes it easier. I do stay at Disney but only for the transportation. That is it!! If my night vision was better and I wasn't getting so old, I would be off-site in a heartbeat. I always have some sort of discount for the WDW resorts. I never buy any Disney merchandise at WDW. I go to the outlet store. I never make any ADR's except for the CP. In a week, I average maybe 3 counter service meals in a park. I take advantage of the free water. I eat off-site and go to the grocery store and pick up some supplies. I have been known to take a PB sandwich into the parks! This has been a gradual thing and I have never felt deprived. I can take 4-5 trips per year, with an AP. All my cost cutting just allows me the funds to go more often. I also have been gradually exploring more and more of Orlando and my trips usually include a trip to USO. Annual passes there are a really good deal. I can definitely see that this whole concept that LT is doing would totally work for me. Hit up the parks for the few things I want to do and GET OUT!!

 

[Luckybee]

Not sure of your slur is aimed at me--but I have been seriously balancing my comments here and actually ignoring most of the derailments. In fact, I defended a few things that others have called into question.

But thank you for the eye roll. Very mature.

"those who defend about absolutely everything" is what I said. Are you one of them ? Only you can choose to decide if you fit within that category....and yes I rolled my eyes as a result of hearing the same old same old fan speeches over and over and over again.

 

[Laketravis]

I have gradually been cutting down on spending money at Disney for a few years. It works out pretty good. I don't travel with kids so that makes it easier. I do stay at Disney but only for the transportation. That is it!! If my night vision was better and I wasn't getting so old, I would be off-site in a heartbeat. I always have some sort of discount for the WDW resorts. I never buy any Disney merchandise at WDW. I go to the outlet store. I never make any ADR's except for the CP. In a week, I average maybe 3 counter service meals in a park. I take advantage of the free water. I eat off-site and go to the grocery store and pick up some supplies. I have been known to take a PB sandwich into the parks! This has been a gradual thing and I have never felt deprived. I can take 4-5 trips per year, with an AP. All my cost cutting just allows me the funds to go more often. I also have been gradually exploring more and more of Orlando and my trips usually include a trip to USO. Annual passes there are a really good deal. I can definitely see that this whole concept that LT is doing would totally work for me. Hit up the parks for the few things I want to do and GET OUT!!

It's definitely a distinct personality type - one that DW doesn't identify with. She makes the Disney marketing department proud; she takes advantage of every offer possible, whether it's the welcome basket in the room when we arrive or buying $50 worth of merchandise so she "only" has to pay $15 for a backpack. And that's fine, I learned long ago not to argue with her about it or try to change her behavior. And she's pretty much accepted the fact that I'm on the other end of the frugality scale because she's realized some of the benefits that my being so can provide without sacrifice for what's important.

I'm looking forward to how this pans out, not just next month but in June as well.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Lisa is right in that my post only helped continue the derailment of the thread. For that, I apologzie, LT.

Getting back to the original subject - was just reading your itinerary updates. Could you post after your trip what wait times at Diagon Alley were like? It sounds like WDW crowds will be similar to what we saw in November...I'd be interested to know what that correlates to for wait times over in IOA and USO

 

[Laketravis]

Could you post after your trip what wait times at Diagon Alley were like? It sounds like WDW crowds will be similar to what we saw in November...I'd be interested to know what that correlates to for wait times over in IOA and USO

Sure. We've only been to USO once, and that was last month over New Year's week. I was probably the only person inside the Universal parks checking the wait times at Disney on my phone! LOL! I was doing that because I figured it being one of the peak seasons of the year it was a good indication of what "busy" really looks like and if I was going to visit both park systems during a busy time I needed to have a sense for how the two systems compared.

At DA, most times we never waited more than 20 minutes for the Express; once or twice it might have been 30. Forbidden Journey / Escape from Gringotts would hit 60 minutes and then drop down to 45 or 40. I was a bit impressed with that since those are no doubt two of the most popular attractions there and they don't use Express Pass yet the wait times were much less than what I was seeing at the time for say Soarin or 7DMT or TSMM or RRnC.

EasyWDW has all of our days next month as a "7" so it will definitely be good to see what overall wait times translate into at each park system.

 

[momtosam]

Do you normally tour like this bouncing from one place to another each day? I'd like to hear you evaluate your "enjoyment rating" when all is said and done. Your itineraries exhaust me just reading them! Not a criticism -- just truly wondering how enjoyable of an experience it turns out to be for you.

 

[Laketravis]

Well with all the talk about needing to allocate more time from MCO to the Rosen to MK on the first night, I've been trying to reverse the order of my FP's to make 7DMT the last one (10p-11p) so the likelihood of missing it was greatly reduced by I've now run into my first "All FastPasses Have Been Distributed" condition for 7DMT at the Day 24 mark. I've no choice but to keep them in their current order or lose it, so I think I'll keep the "Just do Valet parking at the Contemporary for $20 and walk over to MK" tip from another thread as a contingency rather than park, tram, boat/monorail to MK if I get pressed for time.