More changes? Resale ?

[3girlsfun]

Since the changes are being made to the resale versus direct, I ws wondering, will a resale contract always be grandfathered in, or can Disney change this at anytime?

 

[erionm]

Additional details from DVCNews.com:

The second clarification relates to so called gratuitious transfers in which an ownership change occurs with no monetary compensation. Examples of this are transfers upon the death of an owner or passing-on ownership to an immediate family member such as a child.

In the event of a gratuitous transfer, the new owner will be provided with all benefits afforded to the original owner. A contract purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development or a resale purchaced prior to March 21 which is subsequently re-deeded to a qualified family member will remain eligible for all of the DVC Member Getaways.

http://dvcnews.com/index.php/news-program-information-164/1486-update-on-resale-restrictions

 

[chalee94]

Since the changes are being made to the resale versus direct, I ws wondering, will a resale contract always be grandfathered in, or can Disney change this at anytime?

disney can change a lot of things at any time...for resales going forward, for resales in the past and for direct purchasers.

 

[3girlsfun]

I guess I am in the small amour that the changes do concern. I like options, even if I know they are not always the best money wise. I mean, I know it is better to rent points and book a cruise , but, what if I am unable to rent them?

I am very close to making a purchase I just can't seem to decide direct or resale. The changes make me nervous.

Anyone else teetering? How will you ultimately make your decision?

 

[erionm]

If you decide to purchase resale and want those options, you need to get an offer accepted by the seller and submitted to Disney for ROFR no later than 3/20/2011.

 

[drusba]

Since the changes are being made to the resale versus direct, I ws wondering, will a resale contract always be grandfathered in, or can Disney change this at anytime?

For existing change, it adopted the March 20, 2011 grandfather clause. Whether that or even another future date will be adopted for future changes taking away things from resales is unknown. You should likely assume the following; (a) current DVD management probably wanted to make the Disney Collections change to all resale points including past; (b) the legal department likely gave management an opinion stating DVD would be on safe ground for future resales but possibly not past; (c) thus they adopted the grandfather clause; and (d) the same opinion may not be given for future changes affecting resales which opinion will depend on whatever those particular changes may be.

One possibility is that they are making March 2011 the dividing point for all future changes -- all those who purchase resale after the current grandfather date may be the same ones affected by future changes, but we simply do not know. They can claim a lot of discretionary power to take away something when dealing with benefits that can be changed but likely, at least this time, they were somewhat wary of an historical representaional record upon which past purchasers could claim some reliance that the Disney Collections would apply to all owners.

 

[eljefe45]

The one thing they really can't take away is the home resort and the advanced booking window. Or at least that's what I've read on the boards.

They can take away anything else. Will they? That is unclear, my opinion is that they can't do something like that without really crushing the resale market and I think people will think twice before they pay 5 figures for something that will be worth less than half in resale.

So, if you want options, going direct is your safest bet. If you like one particular resort, then I'd go resale.

Me, I bought direct both at SSR and GCV. I am selling GCV because I'm not going to use it much and am in the process of buying SSR and maybe a small piece of AKV on the resale market. If they want to take stuff away I am at risk but I'm willing to let that ride.

 

[Brian Noble]

will a resale contract always be grandfathered in, or can Disney change this at anytime?

There is only one way to know for sure. ()

 

[RobDoc]

There is only one way to know for sure. ()

Wow! Isn't there something from Ann Arbor that could be used instead of W. Lafayette?

 

[3girlsfun]

LOL!!!!

The Magic 8 Ball, loving it.

 

[Sammie]

There is only one way to know for sure. ()

It said, No,

 

[My_3_Mi_Princesses]

I guess I am in the small amour that the changes do concern. I like options, even if I know they are not always the best money wise. I mean, I know it is better to rent points and book a cruise , but, what if I am unable to rent them?

I am very close to making a purchase I just can't seem to decide direct or resale. The changes make me nervous.

Anyone else teetering? How will you ultimately make your decision?

I am teetering as well. I had planned to buy a small contract (first one) and was set on going resale. Then this announcement came so while the actual changes don't bother me (again small contract would never have enough points to do a cruise) but I do worry that DVC/DVD will make other changes so that people who bought resale will be at a disadvantage to the people who bought direct.

So how am I going to decide? Well I will do a couple of things, and I hope this make sense:

First keep my eye on the resale sites and see if the price per points go down, and if they hit my 'to good to refuse' price I will make an offer, fully understanding that after March 20th they could go lower. So far this does not seem to be the case btw.

Second if price/point doesn't go down then in early March I will check out the current promotions from Disney and compare against a resale. If the difference is within my budget I will plan to go the direct route, but wait until after March 20th (yes I know promotions can change). Then watch what happens to the prices. If they go down fast I will go for the resale if they stay the same I will go direct (assuming the same or better promotion from DVC). Now if in early March the price difference between resale and direct is NOT in my budget I will make a resale offer at the going price.

One more thing I will keep an eye on. There is about 6-8 contracts that I like that are up for sale now. If all of a sudden 3-4 of them are 'sale pending' and I don't see new resales hit the market, I may just go for a resale for fear of the resale market drying up.

Now I am sure some people are wondering what in the world I am thinking and how I came up with this, but it makes sense to me

 

[Brian Noble]

Wow! Isn't there something from Ann Arbor that could be used instead of W. Lafayette?

As I often remind my students---it is not useful to reinvent the wheel.

 

[downeywood]

My problem with all of this is the decreased value of or memberships. If we choose to sell them where is that market if potential buyers will now go directly to Disney because of the reduced benefits of the resold contract? Would a buyer now offer less because the membership would have less perks than one purchased from Disney? I am not really sure about the legality but it certainly isn't ethical. One of these days there is going to be a class action against Disney when the thousands of members finally get disgusted enough having their memberships manipulated.

Just my two cents.

The Woodpecker

 

[chalee94]

If we choose to sell them where is that market if potential buyers will now go directly to Disney because of the reduced benefits of the resold contract? Would a buyer now offer less because the membership would have less perks than one purchased from Disney?

yep - resale values will likely drop a bit due to this change. that's a reasonable guess.

I am not really sure about the legality but it certainly isn't ethical. One of these days there is going to be a class action against Disney when the thousands of members finally get disgusted enough having their memberships manipulated.

while i'm sympathetic to our loss of resale value, if you didn't understand that DVC had the right to do this (and even more, down the road), you didn't do your homework. DVC is a timeshare and timeshare ownership has risks.

DVC has made a business decision to support their timeshare direct sales. it hurts current owners' resale values. but that doesn't make it illegal (nor actually unethical), just frustrating. while the US is built on lawyers pursuing nonsense litigation like the class action you suggest, there's not actually much legal ground for suing for frustration.

the value of a timeshare is in using it. if you were counting on resale value, you should get out now while you can still get some value from it. you don't seem to understand what you were paying for.

 

[JimMIA]

There is only one way to know for sure. ()

I always wondered where Brian gets his scholarly answers. Now we know!

 

[axfather]

This is bad for everyone whether you buy direct or not because it lowers the resale value on your points with the new restrictions. I hope someonw sues them but my guess is that the DVC lawyers were crafty enough allow this. Funny how this issue never came up in the sales presentation.

 

[JimMIA]

Funny how this issue never came up in the sales presentation.

Yeah, that's always the way, isn't it?

 

[gchiker]

In effect, DVC has created two classes of points. It's like Class A shares and Class B. Or to put it another way, First Class points and Second Class points. This will affect every member, regardless how, when or where points were purchased. Unless you hold your points until expiration (i.e. 2042), they will have a lower resale value. Disney is very shrewd. Sell them for a depressed value on the resale market or sell them at a reduced ROFR price back to DVC. It really doesn't matter that your current points are grandfathered in. You will still take an additional loss.

Regardless whether this maneuver is legal or not, it will not sit well with DVC members once they see past the smoke screen. We bought into DVC because of Disney's reputation for upholding a standard, including ethics. It certainly has lowered the bar. I believe this will seriously hurt DVC's reputation and future sales. They are hurting the base of members that supports the program and are shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[jsivigny]

I firmly believe that Disney has missed the boat on these changes. They had a good thing going with their timeshares. It was one of the few (maybe the only one) that had a good resale value. Direct Buyers now are going to think twice about purchasing points, if they realize they are losing almost half their principal right away. A receding tide lowers all boats. Disney made a mistake here to try and artificially grow Direct Sales. I believe that they hurt themselves and current Owners in the long run. Disney is great at Marketing...but from a Promotions standpoint, they should be adding benefits, not eliminating them

In fact, if a DVC Salesperson says "Direct Points are worth more than Resale points"...the first thing a prospective buyer will now do is go look into what Resale is. My guess is that most Direct Buyers had no idea about a Resale market and now they will at least go look into.