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I have to say that I agree a person can't be capable caretaker if they are kept in the dark-but unless the person who is being provided care for is cooperative and provides full access to all of their 'stuff' it's next to impossible to get the information necessary to effectively care for them.

in my case-I've got full blown guardianship of my disabled adult child that includes access to all things medical-but when it comes to any other adult be it my mom when she was alive or if my husband were to need my caregiving, absent them giving me full blown power of attorney that was enacted (not the kind that takes an act of god to get a doctor to deem someone incapable of making decisions on their own behalf), without their permission and cooperation I couldn't get anything in the way of information from medical providers. hell-my mother's own doctors didn't know everything she had been prescribed and who all she was seeing.

if mom had gone to providers all within the same medical group they would have had cross access to see what meds she was taking-nope, she went to different types of doctors in different groups and they had to take her at her word (and bad memory) on what she was taking and what diagnosis she had. she used a mix of mail order, other's picking up and pharmacy delivery so there was no safety net there to ensure she wasn't being prescribed something that would cause a bad interaction with something else.

when she was in rehab they had to ask her every time they wanted to share information w/me, and as far as 'case managers' go-they GO AWAY when the patient is discharged.

as far as consumption of illicit items-mom never should have consumed alcohol but that was her self medication of choice and unless someone is with someone 24/7 and monitoring face to face every interaction they have-there will always be the potential for someone to get what they want. in mom's case it was via family members who figured she was so old and close to the end of her life "why not?" despite every argument and pleading from us. heck-she would have been in hog heaven if she lived where we do-she could get the liquor store to do free delivery to her home.

like I've said before-if someone is 60 or older then you can at least get adult protective services involved to evaluate their situation but with any younger adult unless you can justify a 5150 hold you're on your own trying to deal with it.

I had to start going on doctor appointments with my mom about two years ago. While she was at a point in life where she admitted she needed my help, she didn't want to put me on the form that give me permission to get information from her doctor. I was pissed and we had an argument about it but I let it drop. This past year she had a ton of medical issues and I went on all the appointments with her. She needed to get some information from her doctor and she wasn't feeling well and wanted me to call. No can do, you stubborn mule! I didn't have a right to any of that information. Needless to say, she changed her tune and added me to everything after that.

I was also shocked to see how the doctors don't have a clue what the others are doing. Nothing is connected unless, like you said, they are seeing doctors within the same medical group. They are expecting an 85 year old to remember everything accurately. At one point I had bottles of Tylenol 3, Oxycontin, and Vicodin in my cupboard by three different doctors of hers all with two to three refills. Oh, and my mom drinks like a fish so those are always great medications to mix with wine. Of course, she leaves that detail out when she is talking to the doctor.
 
Or keep yourself in the dark. If her DH is as incapacitated as the OP says, it is impossible that she doesn't know what he smokes or what medication he takes - he'd only be able to get it through her. Same with what doctors he sees - again, according to the OP, he can only see the doctors that she takes him to.
Also, he just had a graft for a diabetic leg ulcer. He'll need home care nursing for that-assessments, dressing changes, etc. He'll have an RN in the home daily (likely, depending on the type of dressing). He also has a case manager supervising and coordinating these services. He has services. They may not be the extensive inpatient services she wants, but he is being monitored and receiving care.
 
People, the OP is not going to leave and not going to get a divorce, etc. She is mixed up in a co-dependent cycle that she's somehow getting something out of, despite the frustrations, and so it will continue...

Badgering her and giving her "advice" at this point is not going to help get her to do what we all wish she would do.

For whatever reason, she does not feel empowered enough to deal with this situation the way MOST OF US WOULD DEAL WITH IT, therefore it's futile to keep telling her to get help, to leave, to abandon her husband, etc. SHE'S NOT GOING TO DO IT!!

Unless and until she herself decides to make changes, it's like leading a horse to water....

I wish that weren't the case, but unfortunately, not everyone is capable of leaving a situation like this.

What is more likely to happen is that something catastrophic will happen to change the situation.
 
I think, based on what I have read, that the OP feels "stuck" in the situation because she is afraid of the guilt and/or condemnation from family that may happen if she were to actually leave. I think she would have been gone long ago if these factors weren't in play. JMO.
 

There also isn't a psychiatrist in the world that I've ever met in my experience that would prescribe 3 anti-psychotic medications at the same time. Never. Doing so would in almost all cases result in side effects and control issues that could never be properly monitored or corrected. I would run fast and far from any psychiatrist that was willing to take such a risk. That claim is simply not realistic in any way, shape or form and anyone who works in mental health with a background in anti-psychotic medication will surely know why. On that note, I'm out again.
Again?? :rotfl:
 
I had to start going on doctor appointments with my mom about two years ago. While she was at a point in life where she admitted she needed my help, she didn't want to put me on the form that give me permission to get information from her doctor. I was pissed and we had an argument about it but I let it drop. This past year she had a ton of medical issues and I went on all the appointments with her. She needed to get some information from her doctor and she wasn't feeling well and wanted me to call. No can do, you stubborn mule! I didn't have a right to any of that information. Needless to say, she changed her tune and added me to everything after that.

I was also shocked to see how the doctors don't have a clue what the others are doing. Nothing is connected unless, like you said, they are seeing doctors within the same medical group. They are expecting an 85 year old to remember everything accurately. At one point I had bottles of Tylenol 3, Oxycontin, and Vicodin in my cupboard by three different doctors of hers all with two to three refills. Oh, and my mom drinks like a fish so those are always great medications to mix with wine. Of course, she leaves that detail out when she is talking to the doctor.
The difference is the extent of disability and use of community resources. When a patient is disabled and is dependent on Social Security Disability Income, HUD housing, is wheelchair bound, has large numbers of inpatient hospital days to manage chronic illnesses, and has a considerable self-care deficit, a case manager is appointed to coordinate care. This keeps the transfer of services more coordinated, and helps keep the various providers together on a unified treatment plan. This is usually done though the hospital, or there may be another agency that manages it. At least one family member is usually involved. This guy is a poster child for case managed care, and I am confident he has a person who works not only with his wife, but also with all his clinicians.
 
I had to start going on doctor appointments with my mom about two years ago. While she was at a point in life where she admitted she needed my help, she didn't want to put me on the form that give me permission to get information from her doctor. I was pissed and we had an argument about it but I let it drop. This past year she had a ton of medical issues and I went on all the appointments with her. She needed to get some information from her doctor and she wasn't feeling well and wanted me to call. No can do, you stubborn mule! I didn't have a right to any of that information. Needless to say, she changed her tune and added me to everything after that.

I was also shocked to see how the doctors don't have a clue what the others are doing. Nothing is connected unless, like you said, they are seeing doctors within the same medical group. They are expecting an 85 year old to remember everything accurately. At one point I had bottles of Tylenol 3, Oxycontin, and Vicodin in my cupboard by three different doctors of hers all with two to three refills. Oh, and my mom drinks like a fish so those are always great medications to mix with wine. Of course, she leaves that detail out when she is talking to the doctor.
Oh my, someone mixing alcohol with narcotics would scare me. Would it be possible to quietly tell her primary Dr. about this?
 
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Co-Dependency
Co-dependency is a learned behavior that can be passed down from one generation to another. It is an emotional and behavioral condition that affects an individual’s ability to have a healthy, mutually satisfying relationship. It is also known as “relationship addiction” because people with codependency often form or maintain relationships that are one-sided, emotionally destructive and/or abusive. The disorder was first identified about ten years ago as the result of years of studying interpersonal relationships in families of alcoholics. Co-dependent behavior is learned by watching and imitating other family members who display this type of behavior.

Who Does Co-dependency Affect?
Co-dependency often affects a spouse, a parent, sibling, friend, or co-worker of a person afflicted with alcohol or drug dependence. Originally, co-dependent was a term used to describe partners in chemical dependency, persons living with, or in a relationship with an addicted person. Similar patterns have been seen in people in relationships with chronically or mentally ill individuals. Today, however, the term has broadened to describe any co-dependent person from any dysfunctional family.

What is a Dysfunctional Family and How Does it Lead to Co-dependency?
A dysfunctional family is one in which members suffer from fear, anger, pain, or shame that is ignored or denied. Underlying problems may include any of the following:

  • An addiction by a family member to drugs, alcohol, relationships, work, food, sex, or gambling.
  • The existence of physical, emotional, or sexual abuse.
  • The presence of a family member suffering from a chronic mental or physical illness.
Dysfunctional families do not acknowledge that problems exist. They don’t talk about them or confront them. As a result, family members learn to repress emotions and disregard their own needs. They become “survivors.” They develop behaviors that help them deny, ignore, or avoid difficult emotions. They detach themselves. They don’t talk. They don’t touch. They don’t confront. They don’t feel. They don’t trust. The identity and emotional development of the members of a dysfunctional family are often inhibited

Attention and energy focus on the family member who is ill or addicted. The co-dependent person typically sacrifices his or her needs to take care of a person who is sick. When co-dependents place other people’s health, welfare and safety before their own, they can lose contact with their own needs, desires, and sense of self.

How Do Co-dependent People Behave?
Co-dependents have low self-esteem and look for anything outside of themselves to make them feel better. They find it hard to “be themselves.” Some try to feel better through alcohol, drugs or nicotine - and become addicted. Others may develop compulsive behaviors like workaholism, gambling, or indiscriminate sexual activity.

They have good intentions. They try to take care of a person who is experiencing difficulty, but the caretaking becomes compulsive and defeating. Co-dependents often take on a martyr’s role and become “benefactors” to an individual in need. A wife may cover for her alcoholic husband; a mother may make excuses for a truant child; or a father may “pull some strings” to keep his child from suffering the consequences of delinquent behavior.

The problem is that these repeated rescue attempts allow the needy individual to continue on a destructive course and to become even more dependent on the unhealthy caretaking of the “benefactor.” As this reliance increases, the co-dependent develops a sense of reward and satisfaction from “being needed.” When the caretaking becomes compulsive, the co-dependent feels choiceless and helpless in the relationship, but is unable to break away from the cycle of behavior that causes it. Co-dependents view themselves as victims and are attracted to that same weakness in the love and friendship relationships.

Characteristics of Co-dependent People Are:
  • An exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others
  • A tendency to confuse love and pity, with the tendency to “love” people they can pity and rescue
  • A tendency to do more than their share, all of the time
  • A tendency to become hurt when people don’t recognize their efforts
  • An unhealthy dependence on relationships. The co-dependent will do anything to hold on to a relationship; to avoid the feeling of abandonment
  • An extreme need for approval and recognition
  • A sense of guilt when asserting themselves
  • A compelling need to control others
  • Lack of trust in self and/or others
  • Fear of being abandoned or alone
  • Difficulty identifying feelings
  • Rigidity/difficulty adjusting to change
  • Problems with intimacy/boundaries
  • Chronic anger
  • Lying/dishonesty
  • Poor communications
  • Difficulty making decisions
Questionnaire To Identify Signs Of Co-dependency
This condition appears to run in different degrees, whereby the intensity of symptoms are on a spectrum of severity, as opposed to an all or nothing scale. Please note that only a qualified professional can make a diagnosis of co-dependency; not everyone experiencing these symptoms suffers from co-dependency.

1. Do you keep quiet to avoid arguments?
2. Are you always worried about others’ opinions of you?
3. Have you ever lived with someone with an alcohol or drug problem?
4. Have you ever lived with someone who hits or belittles you?
5. Are the opinions of others more important than your own?
6. Do you have difficulty adjusting to changes at work or home?
7. Do you feel rejected when significant others spend time with friends?
8. Do you doubt your ability to be who you want to be?
9. Are you uncomfortable expressing your true feelings to others?
10. Have you ever felt inadequate?
11. Do you feel like a “bad person” when you make a mistake?
12. Do you have difficulty taking compliments or gifts?
13. Do you feel humiliation when your child or spouse makes a mistake?
14. Do you think people in your life would go downhill without your constant efforts?
15. Do you frequently wish someone could help you get things done?
16. Do you have difficulty talking to people in authority, such as the police or your boss?
17. Are you confused about who you are or where you are going with your life?
18. Do you have trouble saying “no” when asked for help?
19. Do you have trouble asking for help?
20. Do you have so many things going at once that you can’t do justice to any of them?

If you identify with several of these symptoms; are dissatisfied with yourself or your relationships; you should consider seeking professional help. Arrange for a diagnostic evaluation with a licensed physician or psychologist experienced in treating co-dependency.

How is Co-dependency Treated?
Because co-dependency is usually rooted in a person’s childhood, treatment often involves exploration into early childhood issues and their relationship to current destructive behavior patterns. Treatment includes education, experiential groups, and individual and group therapy through which co-dependents rediscover themselves and identify self-defeating behavior patterns. Treatment also focuses on helping patients getting in touch with feelings that have been buried during childhood and on reconstructing family dynamics. The goal is to allow them to experience their full range of feelings again.

When Co-dependency Hits Home
The first step in changing unhealthy behavior is to understand it. It is important for co-dependents and their family members to educate themselves about the course and cycle of addiction and how it extends into their relationships. Libraries, drug and alcohol abuse treatment centers and mental health centers often offer educational materials and programs to the public.

A lot of change and growth is necessary for the co-dependent and his or her family. Any caretaking behavior that allows or enables abuse to continue in the family needs to be recognized and stopped. The co-dependent must identify and embrace his or her feelings and needs. This may include learning to say “no,” to be loving yet tough, and learning to be self-reliant. People find freedom, love, and serenity in their recovery.

Hope lies in learning more. The more you understand co-dependency the better you can cope with its effects. Reaching out for information and assistance can help someone live a healthier, more fulfilling life.

http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/co-dependency
 
People, the OP is not going to leave and not going to get a divorce, etc. She is mixed up in a co-dependent cycle that she's somehow getting something out of, despite the frustrations, and so it will continue...

Badgering her and giving her "advice" at this point is not going to help get her to do what we all wish she would do.

For whatever reason, she does not feel empowered enough to deal with this situation the way MOST OF US WOULD DEAL WITH IT, therefore it's futile to keep telling her to get help, to leave, to abandon her husband, etc. SHE'S NOT GOING TO DO IT!!

Unless and until she herself decides to make changes, it's like leading a horse to water....

I wish that weren't the case, but unfortunately, not everyone is capable of leaving a situation like this.

What is more likely to happen is that something catastrophic will happen to change the situation.


I agree with you to an extent, but then I'm always hopeful that while the o/p of threads like these might not 'do it' there might be someone else following the thread who is in a similar situation or foresees their current situation spiraling down this nasty rabbit hole-and maybe, just maybe they might gain some insight from the well intentioned advice that's offered, and reading of others who in giving advice are sharing their real life experiences with some of these issues, might be able to turn things around for themselves or find the strength to 'get out'.
 
I agree with you to an extent, but then I'm always hopeful that while the o/p of threads like these might not 'do it' there might be someone else following the thread who is in a similar situation or foresees their current situation spiraling down this nasty rabbit hole-and maybe, just maybe they might gain some insight from the well intentioned advice that's offered, and reading of others who in giving advice are sharing their real life experiences with some of these issues, might be able to turn things around for themselves or find the strength to 'get out'.
I hope so, too. (In fact, I often post with that in mind.)
 
No, I'm talking about a wide variety of mental illnesses, bi-polar included. I never implied that "controllable" meant self-control; you assumed that. When I speak of an illness being controllable I'm referring to an assortment of pharmaceutical and therapy-based management. This man is not taking control of his illness and the end result is that the wife needs to deal with the unbearable fallout. I understand that even with those there can be problems, but it doesn't seem to me that he's taking any responsibility for his illness and it's management.
Just to clarify, I wasn't saying you were saying that. It was just an added comment. Sometimes it's hard with the written word to convey things the way you want or mean to. I agree with the rest of your post.
 
Bottom line: The OP isn't in enough pain to make the necessary changes to improve her life. I've found that some people, most people really, won't do anything to get out of their comfy status quo until the pain reaches a critical level. The OP simply isn't there yet.

OP, I don't feel sorry for you and I never will. This is a situation you've created all by yourself for whatever reason. It would appear that others in your life have tried throwing you a lifeline and most have given up because not only will you not take the lifeline, you seem to get some kind of satisfaction or sense of vindication out of playing the victim.

I don't pity the martyrs; they get so much job satisfaction out of being one.

But I have no room in my life for those who only want validation for how badly they've screwed up their lives and how none of it is their fault. We are all responsible for what we get and how we make the best of it in this life. You've got two legs and a place to go. Choosing not to go to that place means that you've chosen to stay in the filth you've created. I hope you can live with the choices you've made.

I, for one, am glad I've banished energy vampires like you from my real life and I'm now banishing you, as an energy vampire, from my online life.

Best of luck to you.
 
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The more I read, the more it reinforces my opinion of Munchausen syndrome by proxy.
Nah. Factitious Disorder (formerly Munchausen by proxy) is more secretive. The goal is almost always hospitalization with a serious condition. Caretakers and patients tend to isolate themselves between these incidents and vehemently refuse all outside assistance or care. This is different. For all we know, the OP could be a single woman who creates dramatic scenarios to engage others. She knows just enough to seem credible, but not enough to communicate reasonably with anyone who actually works in this field. It's fascinating in kind of a creepy way.
 
Getting ready to leave for the appt here in a sec.

How did he get these meds? Everybody wants to know. He has been in either a rehab facility, hospital, or skilled nursing facility since May. They took care of the meds. He has only been in my care since Thursday of last week. I went to walmart with the list of meds and got them filled after he got out.

To clear up whats being brought up....

The marijuana smoking ended when he went into the hospital back in May. I do not know where he was getting it. Before May he could get around the house in a wheelchair and a little with the walker. He would sit in his bedroom and smoke it. I could smell it, he thought I was too stupid to know what it was. I just ignored it.

He was in my care from like March of 14 til May of 15...he went into the hospital, and has been confined to a hospital, skilled nursing, or rehab facility until last week.

A little weed should be the least of your worries...
 
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You are a domestic abuse victim that also has a lot of other problems heaped on her plate. I also do not feel sorry for you OP. There is plenty available to you that you could be taking advantage of that you are not. Therapy and getting out of the house to a safe place should be your main goals. Do not go live with your Dad, I have a feeling he plays a large part in the way you feel about yourself and won't be a good thing for you. Don't worry about your DH, he isn't worrying about you. Let him take care of himself.
 
The difference is the extent of disability and use of community resources. When a patient is disabled and is dependent on Social Security Disability Income, HUD housing, is wheelchair bound, has large numbers of inpatient hospital days to manage chronic illnesses, and has a considerable self-care deficit, a case manager is appointed to coordinate care. This keeps the transfer of services more coordinated, and helps keep the various providers together on a unified treatment plan. This is usually done though the hospital, or there may be another agency that manages it. At least one family member is usually involved. This guy is a poster child for case managed care, and I am confident he has a person who works not only with his wife, but also with all his clinicians.

I honestly would love to believe this is the case but in my experience the only time I've ever seen this happen was when my daughter was a "shriner's kid". shriner's has an amazing case management program that extends beyond the hospital walls, but between what we experienced with my mom and what I know from working in one state's health and social services department this wouldn't be the norm.

can't speak to other states but at least in California-

low income housing is handled by individual city and county agencies-they do not communicate w/ dshs except to occasionally get a verification of public assistance receipt. no communication w/social security or medical providers.

dshs despite being one agency can't communicate within itself a great deal b/c of HIPAA and other confidentiality laws. unless child or elder endangerment was an issue case management wasn't a service that was provided. granted I retired several years ago, but I just for the heck of it did a quick search to see if California is now offering this-the DID, for a fee-for a couple of years as a pilot program. that pilot was abandoned in 2011 so now there as some very limited services-but only for providers who are discharging Medicaid patients and it utilizes 5 call centers for the entire state (so there's no real personal management going on).

social security disability is handled by the feds-and while they can get info. from social services-it's not a 2 way street. we were precluded by federal law to get any information from them. the disability portion would be handled by the financial side of that house/the Medicaid would be handled by another-and they just handle processing the payments, no patient services to speak of.

the hospitals-well, they have social workers (in the county I worked for-they were our staff members) so they could provide "IGAR" (information, guidance and referral) but they didn't do case management after discharge (once you were no longer in-patient you were really on your own). the hospital my mom used was private so they had their own case managers-and sure they gave you a plan, some information on community resources but again-once you lost your 'in patient' status you were out the door (the follow up care nurse that came to check on mom right after release for the first couple of weeks-that was a contracted private company who just had the instructions they were given upon mom's release-they could advise but they didn't do case management, same with the physical rehab person-made advisements but no management).

it's scary, but there's not allot of medical case management available to most people-disabled or other.
 
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