Minium Wage/ McD's/ Sense of Entitlement

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I didn't realize that asking you a question was debating.

Are the folks on the picket lines running around with lots of tattoos and PINK on their rear? Its just a question as to why you decided they wanted those things and not to just be able to pay their light bill.

Not walking off the job doesn't make those people any less ;) doesn't mean we can debate:rotfl2:
I just want to let you know, I have absolutely no hard feelings. I love the discussion going on.

:goodvibes

None from me either.

If those folks are running around with expensive things and asking for more money; I agree they are making fools of themselves and making light of the struggle of those who are truly trying to support a family on minimum wage.
 
Finally read through the whole thread.

I also think many of the people ranting about the push to increase minimum wage are far, far removed from what is happening to wages for the working class. When I was in high school, fat food and retail jobs started around $7.50/hour. Those same jobs are paying the exact same wage today. Discussions of a living wage aside, there is absolutely no convincing argument that can be made, IMO, that would justify companies that post profits of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars per quarter not raising wages one thin dime in a decade and a half.
Supply costs, though, have risen dramatically in that time. A company like McD's pays a lot more today than they did twenty years ago to produce and sell the same product. It would be interesting to see how their profits have trended in that time.

BTW, where I live McD's ain't a bad gig for some. They offer mother's hours, they're local (so no commute; near home if there are any issues w/ kids), both of which people like, and they pay $12+/hr for evening hours. I know quite a few moms who work there and at similar places.
 
:goodvibes

None from me either.

If those folks are running around with expensive things and asking for more money; I agree they are making fools of themselves and making light of the struggle of those who are truly trying to support a family on minimum wage.

I just keep holding on to a vision that our economic times will get better!!
I love my country and it burns that we have all this turmoil going on.
I can now appreciate what my dad went thru growing up. My dad was the oldest and he bought my grandparents their first car- I'm not kidding. He went in the service in the 1950's because he knew it was the only way to have a better life than the one he grew up in.
 
Finally read through the whole thread.


Supply costs, though, have risen dramatically in that time. A company like McD's pays a lot more today than they did twenty years ago to produce and sell the same product. It would be interesting to see how their profits have trended in that time.

BTW, where I live McD's ain't a bad gig for some. They offer mother's hours, they're local (so no commute; near home if there are any issues w/ kids), both of which people like, and they pay $12+/hr for evening hours. I know quite a few moms who work there and at similar places.


I would bet that the McD's that are being picketed are corporately run. I live in a very urban area. with 25 miles, I can think of over 2 dozen. Some of those are franchise private owned.
 

The society we live in is too demanding. All we do is want more things. Things do not make a person happy, extra trinkets are not needed to survive. Food, water, shelter, the basics of life. That's all anyone should want or feel entitled to. I work a minimum wage job and I can say that the pay should stay the same. If I want more money, I need to work hard and persevere and something good will come along. That's how people should be living there life. I don't think one should be allowed to receive food stamps and government aid, and yet own iPhones and coach purses. I've seen that a lot and it doesn't add up. The society of America is getting too entitled and I think we all need a reality check.
 
In answering my own queston, it sounds like McD's, as a corporation, has had growing pains just like any other organization. From Wiki (that's as far as I'm going to take it :p ).

Early in 2002, Cantalupo retired after 28 years of service. Sales remained lackluster that year, and in October the company attempted to revive U.S. sales through the introduction of a low-cost Dollar Menu. In December 2002, after this latest initiative to reignite sales growth failed and also after profits fell in seven of the previous eight quarters, Greenberg announced that he would resign at the end of the year. Cantalupo came out of retirement to become chairman and CEO at the beginning of 2003.

Cantalupo started his tenure by announcing a major restructuring that involved the 2002 quarterly loss, which included the closure of more than 700 restaurants (mostly in the United States and Japan), the elimination of 600 jobs, and charges of $853 million. The charges resulted in a fourth-quarter 2002 loss of $343.8 million, the first quarterly loss in McDonald's 38 years as a public company. The new CEO also shifted away from the company's traditional reliance on growth through the opening of new units to a focus on gaining more sales from existing units. By 2003, with Ray Kroc's McDonald's Corporation nearly 50 and the McDonald's fast food restaurant concept itself old enough to qualify for AARP membership, the brand had perhaps become too familiar and sales figures stalled. Analysts, management, owners, and customers alike recognized that the aged chain required revivification. The question in need of solution was: How should McDonald's reinvent itself without losing its core values and maintain relevance in the marketplace? To that end, several new menu items were successfully launched, including entree salads, McGriddles breakfast sandwiches (which used pancakes in place of bread), and white-meat Chicken McNuggets. Some outlets began test-marketing fruits and vegetables as Happy Meal options. It was quickly determined that focus on customer experience was key in reversing the slippage. Then, a new global marketing campaign was adopted which was designed around the notion of the "Rolling Energy" phase. Launched on September 29, 2003, the campaign began featuring youthful images, hip music, and pop culture celebrities touting the tagline, "I'm lovin' it." Next, James R. Cantalupo was called back from retirement to head the corporation and its efforts to recapture golden luster. His plan was to keep things simple with a focus on the basics like customer service, clean restrooms, and reliable appealing food (not unlike Ray Kroc's mantra of QSC and V: Quality, Service, Cleanliness, and Value). In addition to the basics he determined to position the company with a more modern coherent image in order to foster a McDonald's "experience" for customers. More than an advertising campaign he and his team approved sweeping new architecture for McDonald's restaurants, the first major overhaul since 1969 when the now universally recognized signature double mansard roof became standard. In fact, Mr. Cantalupo personally approved abandonment of the ubiquitous and familiar mansard in favor of what became the "Forever Young" prototype topped with its swish eyebrow. This was the first global campaign in McDonald's history, as the new slogan was to be used in advertising in more than 100 countries. It also proved to be the first truly successful ad campaign in years; sales began rebounding, helped also by improvements in service. Cantalupo did not live to see the fruits of his labor and he died in 2004 just as his modern vision for McDonald's was getting underway. Nonetheless he had set things into motion causing a paradigm shift for the company resulting in a refreshed image without a dilution of brand identity.

In December 2003, for instance, same-store sales increased 7.3 percent. Same-store sales rose 2.4 percent for the entire year, after falling 2.1 percent in 2002. Also, in that month, McDonald's announced that it would further its focus on its core hamburger business by downsizing its other ventures. The company said that it would sell Donatos back to that chain's founder. In addition, it would discontinue development of non-McDonald's brands outside of the United States. This included Boston Market outlets in Canada and Australia and Donatos units in Germany. McDonald's kept its minority investment in Pret A Manger, but McDonald's Japan was slated to close its Pret units there. These moves would enable the company to concentrate its international efforts on the McDonald's chain, while reducing the non-hamburger brands in the United States to Chipotle and Boston Market, both of which were operating in the black.

McDonald's continued to curtail store openings in 2004 and to concentrate on building business at existing restaurants. Much of the more than $1.5 billion budgeted for capital expenditures in 2004 was slated to be used to remodel existing restaurants. McDonald's also aimed to pay down debt by $400 million to $700 million and to return approximately $1 billion to shareholders through dividends and share repurchases. Cantalupo also set several long-term goals, such as sustaining annual systemwide sales and revenue growth rates of 3 to 5 percent. In a move to both simplify the menu and make its offerings less fattening, McDonald's announced in March 2004 that it would phase out Super Size french fries and soft drinks by the end of the year.

In January 2012, the company announced revenue for 2011 reached an all-time high of $27 billion, and that 2400 restaurants would be updated and 1300 new ones opened worldwide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_McDonald's
 
As the old Iron Lady said

"Eventually the government will run out of the people's money"
 
I have a question for everybody.

What is a living wage?

I have worked with guys making $30 an hour and working 6-7 days a week pulling up to 12 hours a day for 6-9 months straight and they are living hand to mouth.

Yes these are highly skilled workers and they are just as broke as the folks at McDonalds.

So at what point do we say enough is enough.

It is hard to generalize because cost of living can vary so much from place to place, but for the purposes of national conversation I keep seeing $10.73 come up. Where that figure comes from is the poverty level for a family of 4 divided over a full time, year round job.
 
Supply costs, though, have risen dramatically in that time. A company like McD's pays a lot more today than they did twenty years ago to produce and sell the same product. It would be interesting to see how their profits have trended in that time.

Those same costs have risen for individuals and families too, and they don't have economies of scale or vertical integration to offset the costs.

I'm not particularly well-versed in financial data available online so I wasn't able to quickly turn up a long-term trend. I did find this, with the last 3 years' costs and profits broken down.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=MCD+Income+Statement&annual

And 5 year stock values with earnings per share noted:

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=MCD

And this overview of how well they've done through the recession, including a chart of income going back to 2003... from 1.5B in 2003 to over 4B in '08 to (from a different source) 5.5B in '12.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123664077802177333.html

Or you could go straight to the source. Their annual shareholder report only goes back 6 years, but in that time net income has jumped from 2.3 to 5.4 billion.

http://www.aboutmcdonalds.com/conte...rs/Investor 2013/2012 Annual Report Final.pdf
 
In addition in a market economy you depend on people to buy their goods. Henry Ford paid his employees a living wage and built affordable cars. He reduced his turnover, increased morale and became more successful then competitors who paid less. In addition his employees could afford to not only buy his cars but to buy homes, take little vacations and support their local businesses. A fair wage makes sense for everybody.

The modern model seems almost to be the opposite - pay your workers so little that they will have no choice but to patronize the same businesses that keep costs low by paying poverty level wages. I'm involved with several groups that see this as their biggest obstacle - people working these jobs can't afford to support mom & pop businesses that can't compete with Walmart's purchasing power or McD's dollar menu. By keeping wages low, companies boost the market for their low-price low-quality business model.
 
I just keep holding on to a vision that our economic times will get better!!
I love my country and it burns that we have all this turmoil going on.
I can now appreciate what my dad went thru growing up. My dad was the oldest and he bought my grandparents their first car- I'm not kidding. He went in the service in the 1950's because he knew it was the only way to have a better life than the one he grew up in.

Me too.

My dad did the same thing and then came home and started a business.

So many of the guys that I went to school with, including my ex-husband went offshore at 18 because it was the best way to make a good living and have a better life and now my oldest son is doing the same thing. It kills me that he has to do that kind of dangerous work and be gone 1/2 the year but at this point, going back to school would reduce his pay not increase it.
 
Why are the living hand to mouth?

Sounds like those guys are living that way by their choice or because of choices they make.

Making a wage that SHOULD pay your rent/mortgage, pay for transportation and for food and clothes, but you don't make it do that is the fault of the employee. Making a wage that will in no way pay those things is something else.


Which brings us full circle. The folks working minimum wage are living that way or because of choices they made.

If I make $10 an hour I will live one way. If I make $30 an hour I live 3 times the way I do at $10 an hour. So instead of that $10,000 car I buy a $30,000 car. Same goes for food or housing.

The problem I see and that has been posted over and over again is all the stuff folks buy which are not needed. Designer clothes, cell phones, cable, cars, etc.

It doesn't matter what we raise the pay to people will always out spend their income. Its just a simple fact.
 
Which brings us full circle. The folks working minimum wage are living that way or because of choices they made.

If I make $10 an hour I will live one way. If I make $30 an hour I live 3 times the way I do at $10 an hour. So instead of that $10,000 car I buy a $30,000 car. Same goes for food or housing.

The problem I see and that has been posted over and over again is all the stuff folks buy which are not needed. Designer clothes, cell phones, cable, cars, etc.

It doesn't matter what we raise the pay to people will always out spend their income. Its just a simple fact.

Minimum wage is below $10 an hour. And rarely will it pay any kind of housing or car payments. Maybe one or the other but not both and the one is going to be a clunker or horrible housing.

At less than $8 an hour, a person with children to support is not going to be buying designer clothes or expensive cell phones. Now, they may qualify for assistance that pays for that cell phone but the rest isn't going to come from that job.

Not saying there aren't those that do it, just like there are people on food stamps carrying a $400 purse; but its far, far from the majority. Mostly they are just trying to keep food on the table.
 
Minimum wage is below $10 an hour. And rarely will it pay any kind of housing or car payments. Maybe one or the other but not both and the one is going to be a clunker or horrible housing.

At less than $8 an hour, a person with children to support is not going to be buying designer clothes or expensive cell phones. Now, they may qualify for assistance that pays for that cell phone but the rest isn't going to come from that job.

Not saying there aren't those that do it, just like there are people on food stamps carrying a $400 purse; but its far, far from the majority. Mostly they are just trying to keep food on the table.

The fact that the poster you quoted seems to think someone making $10/hr can buy a $10,000 car shows how out of touch with living on such a low salary s/he is.
 
Which brings us full circle. The folks working minimum wage are living that way or because of choices they made.

If I make $10 an hour I will live one way. If I make $30 an hour I live 3 times the way I do at $10 an hour. So instead of that $10,000 car I buy a $30,000 car. Same goes for food or housing.

The problem I see and that has been posted over and over again is all the stuff folks buy which are not needed. Designer clothes, cell phones, cable, cars, etc.

It doesn't matter what we raise the pay to people will always out spend their income. Its just a simple fact.

I hate to be the person to bust your bubble but I'm going to tell you a secret. There are kids going to bed hungry every night in you land of opportunity. There are people who can't pay their heat bill and wear winter coats inside the house all winter.

It's much easier to be bitter and believe people get what they deserve I'm sure. It's much easier to believe that mother can't feed her children because she spent her money on a cell phone or designer bag.

The problem is the truth is ugly. Plenty of people are spending their money just to keep a roof over their heads and their family fed. And it's not enough. But that would just be too sad. And you couldn't hate the poor then, could you? Because then you couldn't justify their suffering.

As for the "choices" they made that put them in this situation...the majority of the time it was the choice to be born into the wrong family. (I'm sure you must believe that was a conscious choice just as you chose to be born into the family you were who provided you with the start you needed to wind up where you are today)
 
Not everyone can make 6 figures....not everyone is going to make 40-50K a year.

I've seen the "east coast" posters on here talk about how people with 50 - 60 - 100K a year income struggle to survive "in the city"....even though those salaries will live you a very nice life in a great deal of this country.

A living wage in NYC is not a living wage in Indianapolis or a small town in N. Dakota (no offense ND!) It was posted in one of these 15 pages that they thought McD workers in NYC were over $10 / hr. That's nearly 50% higher than the minimum wage.

It is a very unskilled job. Maybe in NYC McD's is staffed by former business people that were impacted by the economy -- but I've eaten fast food in lots of cities across the country and very seldom ever see what looks like a person impacted by such things. At least in my travels, most of the non mgr worker spots are filled by teens/early twenties and non - English speaking people (or so it seems given how many times a mgr has told the sandwich maker - no queso when I tell them that they messed up and put cheese on my burger) and the occasional senior citizen.

If the wage is not living -- find a roommate (or two) to share costs....take a second job, tell your spouse to get a job and so on.

If you and a spouse are both making $17,500 a year -- that would be $35K a year in combined income. In many places that would be a fine household income. Now, you can't go to Disney all the time (oh the horror), have an Iphone witih a $100 / mo phone bill, the top cable TV package or a $30,000 car -- but you can feed the kids and keep the lights on.

A single person getting 25 hours a week at McD has plenty of time on their hands to pick up 20 - 25 hours from a 2nd job - and find a roommate to share rent and utilities with.

Raising the wage is going to lead to higher costs across the board -- not just on the $1 McDouble -- everything will go up and then soon you'll be hearing how a $12 - $15 wage just isn't enough as milk is $5 gal and it costs $30 for a family of 4 to go to McD due to the new $2 menu and $8 Big Mac. The mom & pop small businesses will go under as they can't afford to pay $15 / hr for a person to stock the shelves.

There has and always will be a disparity between the top and bottom -- that won't go away unless you want "salary cap" on all jobs or give every US citizen $X a year to live their lives.

Flame Away
 
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