Minium Wage/ McD's/ Sense of Entitlement

[I loveStitchnippyjon]

Not everyone can make 6 figures....not everyone is going to make 40-50K a year.

I've seen the "east coast" posters on here talk about how people with 50 - 60 - 100K a year income struggle to survive "in the city"....even though those salaries will live you a very nice life in a great deal of this country.

A living wage in NYC is not a living wage in Indianapolis or a small town in N. Dakota (no offense ND!) It was posted in one of these 15 pages that they thought McD workers in NYC were over $10 / hr. That's nearly 50% higher than the minimum wage.

It is a very unskilled job. Maybe in NYC McD's is staffed by former business people that were impacted by the economy -- but I've eaten fast food in lots of cities across the country and very seldom ever see what looks like a person impacted by such things. At least in my travels, most of the non mgr worker spots are filled by teens/early twenties and non - English speaking people (or so it seems given how many times a mgr has told the sandwich maker - no queso when I tell them that they messed up and put cheese on my burger) and the occasional senior citizen.

If the wage is not living -- find a roommate (or two) to share costs....take a second job, tell your spouse to get a job and so on.

If you and a spouse are both making $17,500 a year -- that would be $35K a year in combined income. In many places that would be a fine household income. Now, you can't go to Disney all the time (oh the horror), have an Iphone witih a $100 / mo phone bill, the top cable TV package or a $30,000 car -- but you can feed the kids and keep the lights on.

A single person getting 25 hours a week at McD has plenty of time on their hands to pick up 20 - 25 hours from a 2nd job - and find a roommate to share rent and utilities with.

Raising the wage is going to lead to higher costs across the board -- not just on the $1 McDouble -- everything will go up and then soon you'll be hearing how a $12 - $15 wage just isn't enough as milk is $5 gal and it costs $30 for a family of 4 to go to McD due to the new $2 menu and $8 Big Mac. The mom & pop small businesses will go under as they can't afford to pay $15 / hr for a person to stock the shelves.

There has and always will be a disparity between the top and bottom -- that won't go away unless you want "salary cap" on all jobs or give every US citizen $X a year to live their lives.

Flame Away

No flames here. You are the voice of reason.

 

[ols386]

The "you" I was referring to was the poster I quoted.

Like I said, double what they are currently making is a bit much but I think the job should pay more than it does. Or at least benefits offered and/or those that want full time/over time be given those hours instead of hiring 6 people to work 3 hours a day.

There are other jobs that require very little skills and knowledge but pay a whole lot more.

There are also other jobs that require significant skill and knowledge and pay around $15/hour (or less).

 

[Colleen27]

I hate to be the person to bust your bubble but I'm going to tell you a secret. There are kids going to bed hungry every night in you land of opportunity. There are people who can't pay their heat bill and wear winter coats inside the house all winter.

It's much easier to be bitter and believe people get what they deserve I'm sure. It's much easier to believe that mother can't feed her children because she spent her money on a cell phone or designer bag.

Once upon a time, a brilliant political strategist realized that moral outrage would move people to accept and support things that they otherwise wouldn't. In an especially powerful campaign speech he told the story of a woman who (supposedly) "earned" a 6-figure, tax free income receiving welfare under multiple identities... And the demonization of the poor and the social safety net began.

At the same time, America began to grow increasingly fragmented by income. Instead of shopping in common city centers and relaxing in public parks, people live, work, shop, attend school, and engage in recreation all within homogeneous enclaves. This means that for much of the middle class, their primary exposure to the "other half" is via the media. And just like race, religion, or any other major difference in life, it is much easier to generalize and stereotype when you don't know anyone who belongs to that group.

There has and always will be a disparity between the top and bottom -- that won't go away unless you want "salary cap" on all jobs or give every US citizen $X a year to live their lives.

You're arguing a point no one is making, though. No one has suggested that there be no gap, only that the current gap is too large and growing wider by the year. That does have social and political ramifications, as much as people would like to cling to the idea that it is just about little Billy being too lazy to turn off the Xbox and go to college or little Susie having too many kids with the wrong man.

 

[luvsJack]

Not everyone can make 6 figures....not everyone is going to make 40-50K a year.

I've seen the "east coast" posters on here talk about how people with 50 - 60 - 100K a year income struggle to survive "in the city"....even though those salaries will live you a very nice life in a great deal of this country.

A living wage in NYC is not a living wage in Indianapolis or a small town in N. Dakota (no offense ND!) It was posted in one of these 15 pages that they thought McD workers in NYC were over $10 / hr. That's nearly 50% higher than the minimum wage.

It is a very unskilled job. Maybe in NYC McD's is staffed by former business people that were impacted by the economy -- but I've eaten fast food in lots of cities across the country and very seldom ever see what looks like a person impacted by such things. At least in my travels, most of the non mgr worker spots are filled by teens/early twenties and non - English speaking people (or so it seems given how many times a mgr has told the sandwich maker - no queso when I tell them that they messed up and put cheese on my burger) and the occasional senior citizen.

If the wage is not living -- find a roommate (or two) to share costs....take a second job, tell your spouse to get a job and so on.

If you and a spouse are both making $17,500 a year -- that would be $35K a year in combined income. In many places that would be a fine household income. Now, you can't go to Disney all the time (oh the horror), have an Iphone witih a $100 / mo phone bill, the top cable TV package or a $30,000 car -- but you can feed the kids and keep the lights on.

A single person getting 25 hours a week at McD has plenty of time on their hands to pick up 20 - 25 hours from a 2nd job - and find a roommate to share rent and utilities with.

Raising the wage is going to lead to higher costs across the board -- not just on the $1 McDouble -- everything will go up and then soon you'll be hearing how a $12 - $15 wage just isn't enough as milk is $5 gal and it costs $30 for a family of 4 to go to McD due to the new $2 menu and $8 Big Mac. The mom & pop small businesses will go under as they can't afford to pay $15 / hr for a person to stock the shelves.

There has and always will be a disparity between the top and bottom -- that won't go away unless you want "salary cap" on all jobs or give every US citizen $X a year to live their lives.

Flame Away

Come to my town. I can show 3 McD's, a Popeyes and a KFC close by that is full of single mom's and older employees. NO non-english speaking people at any of them.

A single person with no children really isn't the issue. Its the mom with 3 kids. She may get assistance for child care for the McD's job; but what does she do with them for the second job? Not everyone has a spouse.

If someone is working at McD's and has a spouse and children; put the spouse to work. Ok. Two minimum wage jobs just put them over the limit to receive assistance for child care. Child care is $190 a week here (probably more there). $9880 for the year to work at a job that pays $17500 (IF you get full time hours which is doubtful); by the time you buy gas and things needed to get to work you will be going in the hole.

So as usual, your scenario is wonderful for that single person working at McD's or that young couple with no children; but it isn't so cut and dried for the rest.

 

[ICF]

So as usual, your scenario is wonderful for that single person working at McD's or that young couple with no children; but it isn't so cut and dried for the rest.

That doesn't mean that a McD's worker should get $15 / hr though -- just so the mom with the 3 kids can pay for daycare and still work there. Things aren't always going to be perfect, or even good, for all people.

The fact is -- life sucks for some -- be it through their bad luck, bad choices or both. It always has and always will. Doubling the minimum wage won't change that.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Not everyone can make 6 figures....not everyone is going to make 40-50K a year.

I've seen the "east coast" posters on here talk about how people with 50 - 60 - 100K a year income struggle to survive "in the city"....even though those salaries will live you a very nice life in a great deal of this country.

A living wage in NYC is not a living wage in Indianapolis or a small town in N. Dakota (no offense ND!) It was posted in one of these 15 pages that they thought McD workers in NYC were over $10 / hr. That's nearly 50% higher than the minimum wage.

It is a very unskilled job. Maybe in NYC McD's is staffed by former business people that were impacted by the economy -- but I've eaten fast food in lots of cities across the country and very seldom ever see what looks like a person impacted by such things. At least in my travels, most of the non mgr worker spots are filled by teens/early twenties and non - English speaking people (or so it seems given how many times a mgr has told the sandwich maker - no queso when I tell them that they messed up and put cheese on my burger) and the occasional senior citizen.

If the wage is not living -- find a roommate (or two) to share costs....take a second job, tell your spouse to get a job and so on.

If you and a spouse are both making $17,500 a year -- that would be $35K a year in combined income. In many places that would be a fine household income. Now, you can't go to Disney all the time (oh the horror), have an Iphone witih a $100 / mo phone bill, the top cable TV package or a $30,000 car -- but you can feed the kids and keep the lights on.

A single person getting 25 hours a week at McD has plenty of time on their hands to pick up 20 - 25 hours from a 2nd job - and find a roommate to share rent and utilities with.

Raising the wage is going to lead to higher costs across the board -- not just on the $1 McDouble -- everything will go up and then soon you'll be hearing how a $12 - $15 wage just isn't enough as milk is $5 gal and it costs $30 for a family of 4 to go to McD due to the new $2 menu and $8 Big Mac. The mom & pop small businesses will go under as they can't afford to pay $15 / hr for a person to stock the shelves.

There has and always will be a disparity between the top and bottom -- that won't go away unless you want "salary cap" on all jobs or give every US citizen $X a year to live their lives.

Flame Away

Sen the old folks working there? A number of them lost their promised pensions or the value of their retirement savings to the flawed economic policies of the early 2000s that cut taxes on high income earners and put us back in an increase the deficit mode. Poor people and minimum wage workers did not cause that . . . nor did they benefit. No, it was by and for people way at the other end of the economic spectrum.

 

[luvsJack]

That doesn't mean that a McD's worker should get $15 / hr though -- just so the mom with the 3 kids can pay for daycare and still work there. Things aren't always going to be perfect, or even good, for all people.

The fact is -- life sucks for some -- be it through their bad luck, bad choices or both. It always has and always will. Doubling the minimum wage won't change that.

I said before, I don't think $15 an hour is the answer but neither do I think they are literally making a living at where they are.

I didn't say that McD's should pay enough to pay child care, someone at that rate of pay can get assistance for that. I said, getting a second job isn't so easy for that mom when she will then have to pay child care.

And for the married couple with children, it wouldn't make sense for the second spouse to also get a minimum wage job as it wouldn't increase their income.

 

[ilovemk76]

I said before, I don't think $15 an hour is the answer but neither do I think they are literally making a living at where they are.

I didn't say that McD's should pay enough to pay child care, someone at that rate of pay can get assistance for that. I said, getting a second job isn't so easy for that mom when she will then have to pay child care.

And for the married couple with children, it wouldn't make sense for the second spouse to also get a minimum wage job as it wouldn't increase their income.

Yes they can. The two spouses can work opposite shifts. The spouse can run a home daycare. These are just two examples.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Yes they can. The two spouses can work opposite shifts. .

That sort of defeats the purpose of being someone's spouse.

 

[Dsnyfireman]

I have problems with this period.

College degreed medical assistants drawing blood and getting patients ready make $12-15 an hour.
School bus drivers make around the same, with the safety of 70 students per route per day in their hands, most with multiple routes.

You're telling me that pressing the "I want fries" button or counting 6 McNuggets in a box should pay more than skilled labor? Really?

Here is my background-1st in my family to attend college from a poor family. I made $4.25 an hour stocking clothes and ringing registers at a KMart for 6 years. I drove 55 miles round trip to a school I could afford for 16 credit hours a week, along with 40+ hours of work. My first apartment in 1995 had a black and white TV, lawn chairs, and garage sale furniture, my car was 8 years old. My schedule between school and work was 5:30 AM until often midnight 5 days a week, with the weekends working 16 hours at KMart and catching up on school work. It was tough, very tough. Nobody owed me anything, hard work earned the "better" life.

Now the thought process is that everything should be given....what happened to our society that hard work is no longer needed to get ahead in life? Now folks expect cel phones, drive expensive cars they cannot afford, buy houses too big, and then gripe that it's someone else's fault when they fail. Frankly it's sickening.

One thing I learned while working minimum wage for a few years is that I would get nowhere in life making that wage. I put on my big boy pants and did something about it, instead of griping that someone else is responsible. Instead of camping out in a city somewhere complaining of Wall Street greed, I went to school. Instead of whining about wages, I did something about it.

Enough is enough.

Well said!!!! I have pulled my self up by my own boot straps enough times! We need more manufacturing jobs in this country but can't because it might damage an owl somewhere!! Those jobs made a good wage for skilled labor, not everyone can or wants to go to college. McD's is not skilled labor and it wasn't meant as a career ! I live in maine, average wage about $30,000 a year. I have made about $60,000 a year as a tech in the past, but you work your but off! I learned the job as I went, no college in that field. So if I can do it most can. Want more, learn more and do more! Military is a great place get an education for life! Yes companies need to take care of their employees, if they want to keep good workers then they will usually take care of them. Some companies don't care, lost of people out of work so they just fill the while with he next one. It's all part of the game, when I get upset is when a company takes away retirement , insurance and raises because of poor profit . Saying they are broke, then the CEO leaves( the one who most likely got them broke) and gets a $500,000,000 bonus !!! That is wrong! But if you want better pay, you need a better job, not easy right now but not impossible either. The American dream is not a guarantee , it's a chance to earn it!!!

 

[manning]

Well said!!!! I have pulled my self up by my own boot straps enough times! We need more manufacturing jobs in this country but can't because it might damage an owl somewhere!! Those jobs made a good wage for skilled labor, not everyone can or wants to go to college. McD's is not skilled labor and it wasn't meant as a career ! I live in maine, average wage about $30,000 a year. I have made about $60,000 a year as a tech in the past, but you work your but off! I learned the job as I went, no college in that field. So if I can do it most can. Want more, learn more and do more! Military is a great place get an education for life! Yes companies need to take care of their employees, if they want to keep good workers then they will usually take care of them. Some companies don't care, lost of people out of work so they just fill the while with he next one. It's all part of the game, when I get upset is when a company takes away retirement , insurance and raises because of poor profit . Saying they are broke, then the CEO leaves( the one who most likely got them broke) and gets a $500,000,000 bonus !!! That is wrong! But if you want better pay, you need a better job, not easy right now but not impossible either. The American dream is not a guarantee , it's a chance to earn it!!!

After all these post, finally someone who understands.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

After all these post, finally someone who understands.

I'm not sure what you think that poster understands. Not every American can "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." To even say that is missing a lot about how our country actual works.

 

[crashbb]

*

 

[Robbi]

I'm not sure what you think that poster understands. Not every American can "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." To even say that is missing a lot about how our country actual works.

Not everyone can, you're right. Some sabotage themelves. These two sisters are examples. Both were on full scholarship: One studied to be a pharmacy tech and her teacher told her she should go to pharmacy school. Her sister wanted to be a doctor. Both got pregnant out of wedlock which put a damper on their plans but they went back to school because their mom watched the kids. Then they got pregnant again and then again. 3 kids each, no dad, both are on food stamps. One sister takes work when and where she can get it but companies don't work around her children. The other sister works at a finance company and is trying to graduate. She had to miss out taking a class when her last baby was born and it wasn't offered the next semester so her graduation has been delayed. This is the university's fault according to her.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Not everyone can, you're right. Some sabotage themelves. These two sisters are examples. Both were on full schlarship: One studied to be a pharmacy tech and her teacher told her she should go to pharmacy school. Her sister wanted to be a doctor. Both got pregnant out of wedlock which put a damper on their plans but they went back to school because their mom watched the kids. Then they got pregnant again and then again. 3 kids each, no dad, both are on food stamps. One sister takes work when and where she can get it but companies don't work around her children. The other sister works at a finance company and is trying to graduate. She had to miss out taking a class when her last baby was born and it wasn't offered the next semester so her graduation has been delayed. This is the university's fault according to her.

I try not to be judgmental about people's decision to procreate or not.

 

[FireDancer]

Well said!!!! I have pulled my self up by my own boot straps enough times! We need more manufacturing jobs in this country but can't because it might damage an owl somewhere!! Those jobs made a good wage for skilled labor, not everyone can or wants to go to college. McD's is not skilled labor and it wasn't meant as a career ! I live in maine, average wage about $30,000 a year. I have made about $60,000 a year as a tech in the past, but you work your but off! I learned the job as I went, no college in that field. So if I can do it most can. Want more, learn more and do more! Military is a great place get an education for life! Yes companies need to take care of their employees, if they want to keep good workers then they will usually take care of them. Some companies don't care, lost of people out of work so they just fill the while with he next one. It's all part of the game, when I get upset is when a company takes away retirement , insurance and raises because of poor profit . Saying they are broke, then the CEO leaves( the one who most likely got them broke) and gets a $500,000,000 bonus !!! That is wrong! But if you want better pay, you need a better job, not easy right now but not impossible either. The American dream is not a guarantee , it's a chance to earn it!!!

Where there's a will there's a way. I had to find a way put myself through school so I came up with a plan and followed it through. I also made sure not to make poor decisions that would make that plan harder like having kids before I was ready or tying myself to some loser who was only going to hold me back.

Make good decisions and think long term. Far too many people don't do either of those things and youth isn't an excuse for that.

 

[Robbi]

I try not to be judgmental about people's decision to procreate or not.

I was giving an example of people self sabotaging themselves.
Glad you don't judge since you're helping to support them.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I was giving an example of people self sabotaging themselves.
Glad you don't judge since you're helping to support them.

Who cares? I honestly don't care. My tax money SHOULD go to support poor children who had no choice in the matter.

 

[Colleen27]

Not everyone can, you're right. Some sabotage themelves. These two sisters are examples. Both were on full scholarship: One studied to be a pharmacy tech and her teacher told her she should go to pharmacy school. Her sister wanted to be a doctor. Both got pregnant out of wedlock which put a damper on their plans but they went back to school because their mom watched the kids. Then they got pregnant again and then again. 3 kids each, no dad, both are on food stamps. One sister takes work when and where she can get it but companies don't work around her children. The other sister works at a finance company and is trying to graduate. She had to miss out taking a class when her last baby was born and it wasn't offered the next semester so her graduation has been delayed. This is the university's fault according to her.

Once again, talking about individuals misses the point. Every person who "pulls himself up by his bootstraps" simply leaves behind a low-wage job that will be filled by someone else. 26% of American jobs are low-wage. That is a problem, because no matter how one individual might change his own fortunes those jobs still require that a significant portion of the overall workforce earn a sub-poverty-level wage. THAT is what needs to change. The social discussion always seems to focus on the personal level and shaming the working poor for the choices that led them to be working poor, but individual choices cannot change the fact that our economy as it exists now requires that 1/4 of its workers not earn enough to survive.

 

[luvsJack]

http://www.wdam.com/story/23043733/will-fast-food-protests-spur-higher-minimum-wage

Link is a report on our local news station's website.

If you read it you will see that the man in this report that walked off the job did indeed have a better job. He was laid off. He did try to look for other work, it wasn't there. He is trying to support his family and he IS working two jobs.

A female MANAGER of Burger King is trying to support 5 kids on less than $9 an hour. And states that there are no better jobs.


We can debate this till the cows come home. We can all relate what we did and how so many of us NEVER make bad choices but these are real people who are trying to feed and clothe their children. Not get a tattoo or buy an Iphone. They are trying to keep a roof over their heads.

Minimum wage has not increased since 2009. I have gotten 4 raises since then and don't see that much of a difference because the cost of living has increased. How many raises have YOU gotten in the past 5 years?