Middle School/High School Trips

[DisneyOma]

Our school committee hasn't made a call on trips for this year yet. My bet is that they are cancelled.

 

[Colleen27]

No. I am surprised they still have it scheduled. Hopefully sometime before the trip is to take place it will be canceled. Can't imagine a bunch of middle schoolers together for 3 days, sleeping in cabins together, unvaccinated.

Is there really a meaningful difference between being in cabins together for 3 days and being in the classroom together for 6 hours a day, every day? That's my issue with the trip/field trip bans right now. Schools in my area are in session, in person, with no remote option and no masks. What sense does it make to have 30 kids in a class, 6 classes per day, 5 days a week, all of them in the halls at the same time for passing periods, all of them sharing a lunch room, but decide that putting those same kids together on a bus or in a cabin together is too much exposure? Unless the school or class in question is so big that the kids don't regularly come in contact with some/most of their peers, the human exposure element is the same.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Is there really a meaningful difference between being in cabins together for 3 days and being in the classroom together for 6 hours a day,

I do, Colleen. If kids are anything like it was when I was in those middle school grades, albeit it many, many years ago, I would say it is. We never did class trip back then, but I do recall quite vividly my boy scout weekend overnights at that age. One of the highlights of each day was the night time in the cabins. I can definitely say our time spent in the cabins at night was nothing similar to the same groups of kids in school during the week. Wrestling, jump all over each other, climbing into each other bunks, etc., etc. well into the after midnight hours.

We did not have COVID concerns back then, really had no concerns about anything, just a fun time.

We have mask mandate here in Illinois for any inside building and all schools, P/K-college, teachers, staff and students, vaxed or not. Not sure if the OP's state has mandates, but even if it does, I have no doubt that masking would be marginal at best during those nighttime, fun hours. Even with the school mandates here in Illinois, every day the reports come out about how many students/teachers/staff are in isolation (tested positive) or in quarantine (contact tracing).

In summary, yes, I do think there is a difference, a big difference.

PS: I always enjoy your very logical posts, you're a thinker and not a 'blind' follower. I do say all that in a complimentary voice.

 

[monsterkitty]

Is there really a meaningful difference between being in cabins together for 3 days and being in the classroom together for 6 hours a day, every day? That's my issue with the trip/field trip bans right now. Schools in my area are in session, in person, with no remote option and no masks. What sense does it make to have 30 kids in a class, 6 classes per day, 5 days a week, all of them in the halls at the same time for passing periods, all of them sharing a lunch room, but decide that putting those same kids together on a bus or in a cabin together is too much exposure? Unless the school or class in question is so big that the kids don't regularly come in contact with some/most of their peers, the human exposure element is the same.

Yes there is a huge difference.

By OSHA standards a classroom must exchange air at a certain rate. A hotel room or cabin does not have to follow that rule. The stale air remains in the hotel room or cabin where it does not in a classroom.

Take 5 or 6 people into your bedroom and close the door. How long will it take your room to get stuffy? Take those same people, and even more, into a classroom that is following OSHA standards and close the door. There is a huge difference.

If a child is riding a school bus it is still mandated that students wear a mask while on the bus as the school busses fall under the same umbrella as public transportation and mask requirements.

 

[leahgoogle]

Is there really a meaningful difference between being in cabins together for 3 days and being in the classroom together for 6 hours a day, every day? That's my issue with the trip/field trip bans right now. Schools in my area are in session, in person, with no remote option and no masks. What sense does it make to have 30 kids in a class, 6 classes per day, 5 days a week, all of them in the halls at the same time for passing periods, all of them sharing a lunch room, but decide that putting those same kids together on a bus or in a cabin together is too much exposure? Unless the school or class in question is so big that the kids don't regularly come in contact with some/most of their peers, the human exposure element is the same.

I agree. We have no mask mandate, no distancing of desks and no remote option. If I am comfortable with my kids attending school with these guidelines, I am comfortable letting them do a group trip. This is my district though. I know others have more stringent rules.

 

[leahgoogle]

Yes there is a huge difference.

By OSHA standards a classroom must exchange air at a certain rate. A hotel room or cabin does not have to follow that rule. The stale air remains in the hotel room or cabin where it does not in a classroom.

Take 5 or 6 people into your bedroom and close the door. How long will it take your room to get stuffy? Take those same people, and even more, into a classroom that is following OSHA standards and close the door. There is a huge difference.

If a child is riding a school bus it is still mandated that students wear a mask while on the bus as the school busses fall under the same umbrella as public transportation and mask requirements.

Our kids don't have to wear masks on the bus.

ETA: some of the school classrooms seem to get pretty stuffy

 

[anniemae]

Is there really a meaningful difference between being in cabins together for 3 days and being in the classroom together for 6 hours a day, every day? That's my issue with the trip/field trip bans right now. Schools in my area are in session, in person, with no remote option and no masks. What sense does it make to have 30 kids in a class, 6 classes per day, 5 days a week, all of them in the halls at the same time for passing periods, all of them sharing a lunch room, but decide that putting those same kids together on a bus or in a cabin together is too much exposure? Unless the school or class in question is so big that the kids don't regularly come in contact with some/most of their peers, the human exposure element is the same.

Our school is wearing masks on the bus and indoors. They can remove masks at recess and obviously lunch to eat, spaced out at least 3 ft.

 

[monsterkitty]

Our kids don't have to wear masks on the bus.

ETA: some of the school classrooms seem to get pretty stuffy

Then your district is breaking the Federal mandate:

Are masks required on school buses?
Yes, passengers 2 years of age and older and drivers must wear a mask on buses or vans operated by public or private school systems including early care and education/child care programs, subject to the exclusions and exemptions in CDC’s Order. Operators of school buses should refer to the Department of Education’s COVID-19 Handbook pdf icon[PDF – 27 pages]external icon for additional guidance.

Source: Requirement for Face Masks on Public Transportation Conveyances and at Transportation Hubs

Even if the rooms are stuffy, they still have to comply to OSHA standards which were revised at the beginning of the last school year to increase the air exchange. Trust me, I taught in a classroom that had no windows, heat, or A/C for 32 years with anywhere from 35-55 students per class. The district still had to follow the OSHA regulations for air exchange.

 

[amylevan]

Then your district is breaking the Federal mandate:



Source: Requirement for Face Masks on Public Transportation Conveyances and at Transportation Hubs

Even if the rooms are stuffy, they still have to comply to OSHA standards which were revised at the beginning of the last school year to increase the air exchange. Trust me, I taught in a classroom that had no windows, heat, or A/C for 32 years with anywhere from 35-55 students per class. The district still had to follow the OSHA regulations for air exchange.

OSHA regulations at the federal level are not enforceable in public schools unless your state opts in. And they are recommendations for air, not mandatory. Your state may vary.

And most building codes will address, But those are only enforceable during construction or renovation.

 

[monsterkitty]

OSHA regulations at the federal level are not enforceable in public schools unless your state opts in. And they are recommendations for air, not mandatory. Your state may vary.

And most building codes will address, But those are only enforceable during construction or renovation.

Wow, thanks for this information! Our state requires they stay to regulations. Our school is over 60 years old and the only time it's been given updates is to keep it to OSHA regulations.

 

[Colleen27]

Our kids don't have to wear masks on the bus.

ETA: some of the school classrooms seem to get pretty stuffy

Same, on both counts. Most of the kids aren't wearing masks anywhere, as they're fully optional. And the classrooms in our building can be very stuffy. Our schools have boiler heat and no noticeable air circulation at all except when the weather is warm enough to have the windows open. Going back to school this year during a solid week of high-humidity days in the 90s was not fun for anyone.

And I don't know, maybe I'm thinking about something different in terms of cabins as well - the cabins our school stays in for winter camp have forced air heat, bathrooms, a shared dining room and kitchen, etc. so it isn't like they're packing in to cramped, primitive quarters with no airflow. They also don't get to stay up all night roughhousing like someone upthread mentioned; there's a chaperone in each room and a lights out time that works with their relatively early mornings and busy days outdoors. The accommodations for class trips are even nicer. Last year's 8th grade class stayed in a bed & breakfast on Mackinac Island, two to a room, and for my older daughter's class, we stayed in suite-style dorms on the Loyola Chicago law school campus.

 

[leahgoogle]

Then your district is breaking the Federal mandate:



Source: Requirement for Face Masks on Public Transportation Conveyances and at Transportation Hubs

Even if the rooms are stuffy, they still have to comply to OSHA standards which were revised at the beginning of the last school year to increase the air exchange. Trust me, I taught in a classroom that had no windows, heat, or A/C for 32 years with anywhere from 35-55 students per class. The district still had to follow the OSHA regulations for air exchange.

55 students?!? Bless you! I know that wasn’t easy. I was upset that my youngest has 27 this year!

 

[monsterkitty]

55 students?!? Bless you! I know that wasn’t easy. I was upset that my youngest has 27 this year!

I taught instrumental music so classes were larger than core classes. Our district tops middle school core classes at 25.

 

[firefly_ris]

It wasn't in school but my daughter is 11 and did a week long girl scout camp this summer and shared what she called a "cabent" (cabin-like tent thing) with 2 other girls -- they were both her cousins, but of course interacted with everyone all week long. They had a wonderful time.

 

[leahgoogle]

I taught instrumental music so classes were larger than core classes. Our district tops middle school core classes at 25.

We have a small school and usually classes in any grade are no more than 20. Our district has been making cuts and last year used the pandemic to justify cutting a 4th grade teacher. They said they anticipated a lot of e-learning kids. OK, I can see that. But, there were only a few e-learning kids so my daughter's class had 27 last year too. That paved the way for them to just keep 2 teachers for that class this year in 5th grade too with no e-learning as an option. A bunch of us complained to no avail. My daughter handles the big class well and this is her last year of elementary so I am rolling with it. It is very concerning for the younger kids though. They did the same thing to the 2nd grade class. We already sacrifice extra-curriculars being a rural school, but it was ok because the education was amazing. It's sad they are compromising that by upping class sizes and replacing veteran teachers with new teachers to save money (the veterans are leaving for another district that pays $10,000 more a year). Ok, rant over....lol.

 

[Funfire240]

I'm in Ohio. We just had a meeting about 6th grade camp a few days ago and as of now it is a go for the week after Thanksgiving. I have my doubts if it will go forward although I would love for DS to experience it. I am also very nervous if they do. DH says send him. 2 years ago, in December of 2019, DD went. That year they had so many kids that half went the week after Thanksgiving and then DD was in the group that went the following week. Just about every kid ended up sick, some with testing positive for influenza B. It spread like wildfire. DD who is very active was down and out and begging not to go to dance for 2-3 weeks (which it fell where Christmas break hit shortly after so I think that helped as it was all ok when they went back in January). But knowing this, and how fast Delta spreads, really concerns me. We actually have a meeting next week to see about her planned 8th grade trip to D.C. now.
DS also is fundraising for a day trip to Kalahari but that hasn't been set with a date yet and last I heard may not be until Spring. His class has not had luck with fieldtrips - they had their 2nd grade trip rained out, 3rd grade we went but it rained probably 90% of the time on in indoor/outdoor trip, then their 4th grade trips were all cancelled in 2020 (a baseball game, trip to Henry Ford Museum and a trip to the 180th National Guard for their class trip with a jet as they were the "Jets", then his 5th grade hockey game tradition couldn't be done either last year). Now I'm really doubting his 6th grade fun will take place too.