middle school dance -- girls can't turn down a guy who asks them

[Kennywood]

Some middle school boy who has a crush on a cute teacher will ask her to dance.

"Uh-uh.......you're not allowed say no! Let's Tango, Cara Mia!"

 

[Hikergirl]

Well good for her being strong enough to refuse to dance with a boy just because he was disabled, definitely deserves respect.

You do understand this all hypothetical right?
You are free to see it how you want.
What I would see is that my daughter is strong enough to say no if she wants, even in the face of holier than thou folks who think she needs to make herself uncomfortable to please someone else, all because she's a girl and kindness from a girl means not saying no.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Some middle school boy who has a crush on a cute teacher will ask her to dance.

I have it on good authority that Stacy's Mom Has Got it Going On.

 

[wvjules]

Girls made to feel uncomfortable in order to not make boys feel rejected.

How about teaching boys that being rejected is ok and normal.

I'm actually going to rephrase this because it does go both ways...

Anyone made to feel uncomfortable in order to not make another person feel rejected is not ok.

How about teaching kids that being rejected is ok and normal.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I agree, but it seems for some saying no thanks is rude I guess.
Maybe they didn't hear it a lot growing up

I think maybe what people are talking about, though, is an opportunity to be a little better than just "not rude". I'm certainly not advocating for anyone to to do something that makes them feel "creeped out" or unsafe! (And I am actually not OK with the school forcing this as a policy.)

But I can see the point of building up all our kids up so they can navigate these things with grace, and encouraging to them to do so when they're comfortable.

I'd love for the "askers" (boys or girls) to be resilient enough to accept a polite no without their egos being crushed, and for the "askees" (also boys or girls) to see dancing with someone who might not be everyone's first choice as a gracious gesture they actually have the power to make.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I'd love for the "askers" (boys or girls) to be resilient enough to accept a polite no without their egos being crushed, and for the "askees" (also boys or girls) to see dancing with someone who might not be everyone's first choice as a gracious gesture they actually have the power to make.

And having the power is kinda the point, right? Instead of being told to do it by somebody in authority.

 

[Disneypro1]

At the other end, you have the men who never learned how to deal with rejection who end up harassing/assaulting/murdering the women who turn them down.

And women also.... I go on one of those runs every year or so. Fatal attraction. Girls style.

 

[mjkacmom]

You do understand this all hypothetical right?
You are free to see it how you want.
What I would see is that my daughter is strong enough to say no if she wants, even in the face of holier than thou folks who think she needs to make herself uncomfortable to please someone else, all because she's a girl and kindness from a girl means not saying no.

But would you be okay if you daughter turned down a dance because someone mentally challenged asked her. Yes, a lot of disabled kids are ignored by their peers because kids feel uncomfortable. I think it’s sad and encourage my kids to be kind and welcoming. My dd23 actally went to my friend’s nephew’s prom, an hour away, who she had never met (and one of her biggest discomforts is to be around strangers). He was autistic and all of his friends had dates. She was a junior in high school. It made his night, his entire extended family came to take pictures. I’m glad my daughter was able to put aside her discomfort for someone else’s happiness.

 

[Disneypro1]

But would you be okay if you daughter turned down a dance because someone mentally challenged asked her. Yes, a lot of disabled kids are ignored by their peers because kids feel uncomfortable. I think it’s sad and encourage my kids to be kind and welcoming. My dd23 actally went to my friend’s nephew’s prom, an hour away, who she had never met (and one of her biggest discomforts is to be around strangers). He was autistic and all of his friends had dates. She was a junior in high school. It made his night, his entire extended family came to take pictures. I’m glad my daughter was able to put aside her discomfort for someone else’s happiness.

It doesn’t matter how one feels. People have the right. Kids also. To say no. No matter the reason. No is ok. One shouldn’t feel anything other than ok. To say no. Period. Or adult.

 

[Turn the Page]

The change is that in the past, there's no way the school principal would force a girl to dance with a boy who made her uncomfortable because they were concerned about the boys' self esteem.


Of course kids can tell the difference between dancing and rape. But just because it's not "rape" doesn't mean that someone should have to be forced to allow someone else to touch them.

I'm actually not in favor of this as a policy. I am a little unclear on the particulars here because the article was not the best about specifying details. My point is that others have made the argument that girls won't know they can say no to more serious forms of touching because they had to dance with a kid in middle school. I feel girls are smarter than that.

I think kids should learn that being told no is ok and they shouldn't feel crushed when they face minor forms of rejection like that and kids should be able to politely decline a dance if they are truly uncomfortable with it. I also feel our society as a whole is suffering from a stunning lack of common courtesy and compassion and we could almost all do with a little more of that. I think that is probably what the school is trying to encourage but I don't think they're going about it the right way. What I do not believe, however, is that having 11 year olds dance contributes to rape culture.

 

[MrsPete]

Multiple thoughts:

- My first reaction is similar to most of the posters here: No girl should be forced to dance with a boy, if she doesn't want that experience.
- At the same time, we must acknowledge that it's scary for boys (or girls) to "put themselves out there" and ask for a dance. Just as we don't want girls to feel forced, we don't want boys to feel afraid of rejection.
- I think the answer is for teachers to work with ALL the kids ahead of time about how to ask politely /how to accept or decline politely. Perhaps teachers could role play a polite "ask" and a polite "no" -- and then have kids practice with one another before the dance.
- I did not initially consider the possibility of a handicapped student being rejected -- I agree that the rules change a bit in that situation, and a girl (or boy) would be gracious to accept a 5-minute dance, if asked. How do you teach that? I don't know. I think the wisest choice might be for teachers to privately ask a few confident, outgoing students to ask the special ed kids for a dance -- that'd allow those kids to participate. However, having said that, I realize it sounds difficult.

I'm actually not in favor of this as a policy. I am a little unclear on the particulars here because the article was not the best about specifying details.

Agree -- sometimes the devil is in the details, and the media doesn't always share details as well as one would hope.

Also, having supervised middle school dances, I know what typical 11-year olds do at dances: they run around instead of actually dancing. Literally run circle around the gym. They're excited, but they don't always know what to do.

 

[katie01]

The change is that in the past, there's no way the school principal would force a girl to dance with a boy who made her uncomfortable because they were concerned about the boys' self esteem.


Of course kids can tell the difference between dancing and rape. But just because it's not "rape" doesn't mean that someone should have to be forced to allow someone else to touch them.

I agree. Forcing coworkers OR school kids to work on a group project together is not forcing them to submit to unwanted physical intimacy. Forcing either to slow dance with classmates or coworkers is. If you don’t understand why a young girl might be uncomfortable having to allow any boy who wanted to, to put his arm around her waist, press his body as close as he wanted to, and hold her hand, for about three solid minutes, ask yourself if you’d feel
comfortable being forced to let your boss do the same. Maybe you’d love it if you found them attractive or were very comfortable around them. If not, it would be awkward at best, highly upsetting or maybe traumatic at worst

 

[sk!mom]

So we can't possibly teach our daughters the difference in saying yes to a dance and no to sex? Funny, I danced with a lot of people in my teen years. Never had an issue with saying a loud and clear no to other things. What is the change?

No change. Many of us just realize that girls should not be trained to be accommodating. Regardless of what they are accommodating.

You’re skipping that these were 11 year olds and that it was a slow dance. You’re also skimming over being required to say yes. I want my daughter to know she can say no to any kind of touching she is uncomfortable with and I want my son to know that it’s alright to be rejected and vice versa.

If this school genuinely believes that the girls cannot decline politely or the boys can't handle a rejection, then they should reconsider dances for 11 year olds rather than pass rules that lack common sense.

I am in the Deep South. The very heart and soul of the belief that women should be nice and kind. And had not one issue of saying a loud no or even giving a swift slap in the face, elbow to the ribs or knee in the groin if necessary (never was but I wasn't afraid to do it). See, somehow I was taught that balance by my mom and grandmother. Sort of like Patrick Swazey said "be nice until its time to not be nice".

But my point is that we, as a society, tend to swing things from one extreme to the other. And I find it hard to believe that there isn't a happy medium in teaching socialization skills and being compassionate and being a doormat for whatever anyone wants to do to or with you.

It seems to me that politely declining an unwanted dance IS the happy medium. Being required to comply is far from medium and makes me very unhappy.

 

[MrsPete]

ask yourself if you’d feel
comfortable being forced to let your boss do the same.

That's a good analogy.

If this school genuinely believes that the girls cannot decline politely boys can't handle a rejection, then they should reconsider dances for 11 year olds rather than pass rules that lack common sense.

Middle schools typically hold dances as fund raisers, and kids are excited to attend what they see as a very grown-up activity.

However, in my experience as a teacher, social skills seem to decline every year. I don't think some simple lessons in etiquette would hurt any of our students.

 

[luvsJack]

That's what middle school dances were like, the WHOLE school or Grade level in the gym music and a few adults, I went to a couple because my friend wanted to go, wasn't my thing. Our gyms don't have windows in them so maybe a door might be open, but yes they were darkened, maybe 1/2 lit, or coloured lighting. And yes ours were during the school day as well. I'll find out next year if they've changed if my daughter goes to middle school next year.

Except this was during the day, not at night. We don’t know if it was darkened.

I have attended many jr high dances both as a participant and as a chaperone. All included more than “a few” adults. Heck even the high school dances were almost over chaperoned.

 

[Turn the Page]

I agree. Forcing coworkers OR school kids to work on a group project together is not forcing them to submit to unwanted physical intimacy. Forcing either to slow dance with classmates or coworkers is. If you don’t understand why a young girl might be uncomfortable having to allow any boy who wanted to, to put his arm around her waist, press his body as close as he wanted to, and hold her hand, for about three solid minutes, ask yourself if you’d feel
comfortable being forced to let your boss do the same. Maybe you’d love it if you found them attractive or were very comfortable around them. If not, it would be awkward at best, highly upsetting or maybe traumatic at worst

I don't know what middle school you went to but that would NOT fly at my school. There were chaperones watching and even in high school there was no pressing bodies together allowed. You had to remain a good distance away from each other.

 

[gotomu212]

I am in the Deep South. The very heart and soul of the belief that women should be nice and kind. And had not one issue of saying a loud no or even giving a swift slap in the face, elbow to the ribs or knee in the groin if necessary (never was but I wasn't afraid to do it). See, somehow I was taught that balance by my mom and grandmother. Sort of like Patrick Swazey said "be nice until its time to not be nice".

But my point is that we, as a society, tend to swing things from one extreme to the other. And I find it hard to believe that there isn't a happy medium in teaching socialization skills and being compassionate and being a doormat for whatever anyone wants to do to or with you.

I am truly glad that you didn’t have the experience that 1 in 6 woman had have in this country of sexual assault, truly. I personally am very glad that we have swung to the viewpoint that no person should be forced to lose their right to consent to physical touch...that literally is what this boils down too.

I don’t equate dancing to assault or rape as others in the thread have, but I do feel like any forced physical touching is not okay and has no place in our socialization.

 

[Hikergirl]

But would you be okay if you daughter turned down a dance because someone mentally challenged asked her. Yes, a lot of disabled kids are ignored by their peers because kids feel uncomfortable. I think it’s sad and encourage my kids to be kind and welcoming. My dd23 actally went to my friend’s nephew’s prom, an hour away, who she had never met (and one of her biggest discomforts is to be around strangers). He was autistic and all of his friends had dates. She was a junior in high school. It made his night, his entire extended family came to take pictures. I’m glad my daughter was able to put aside her discomfort for someone else’s happiness.

Yes I am absolutely OK with my dd turning down a dance with someone she didn't want to dance with.

It's ironic that you feel a person has to say yes because a person is mentally challenged, but they can't say no because they are.
Where do you draw the line at which point you would respect your daughter saying no?
What if an autistic kid wanted her to sit on his lap? How about a little kiss on the cheek? Or do you just expect your daughter to just do what makes you proud despite her own feelings?
How about when it's an adult man, do you expect your dd to just be kind and let him do what he wants if he's mentally challenged. That would get your respect?
I don't roll that way- my dd gets to make her own choices for her own reasons, not to please me or some guy that wants to have his hands on her, regardless of his mental/physical capabilities.

 

[katie01]

I don't know what middle school you went to but that would NOT fly at my school. There were chaperones watching and even in high school there was no pressing bodies together allowed. You had to remain a good distance away from each other.

Did you all have really long arms? The photo illustrates what I'm talking about. This is how they danced in our junior high, and it was a Catholic school lol. Some people had the awkward "arms out as far as possible" position, but many were like this. There's just a certain degree of intimacy involved in slow dancing. And I don't mean "sexual" intimacy necessarily, because of course you have wedding dances with a father and daughter, or mother and son dancing. But there is a level of comfort there with the person, in order to want to dance with them. I just think a forced slow dance between anyone who doesn't want it, is uncomfortable. It doesn't even mean you think the person is unattractive. In junior high, it could even be a case where the dancers ARE attracted to each other, and they feel uncomfortable dancing because of it. Again, ask yourself if you'd be ok being forced to slow dance with coworkers, BOTH male and female. If you wouldn't like being forced into it, and publicly shamed if you refused, do you think a 12 year old girl feels comfortable being forced to? I don't care how close or far away the guy holds her, it's still awkward if it's unwanted touch. I said earlier that my kids' junior high doesn't have slow dancing at all. I think that's probably the best way to go. Then in high school they can choose who they dance with. My older daughter's first high school dance, some boy asked her to dance, she got up to dance with him, then she saw he was leading her to the "grinding circle". She said no way and turned around and sat down. I'm sure glad she wasn't conditioned to have to say "yes" to dancing when she didn't want to

 

[katie01]

Also, I'm just going to take a direct quote that came from the mom's Facebook page, that was linked in that article posted in the original post. The mother's Facebook post says: "
NO MEANS NO.
A kid at school that makes my daughter uncomfortable asked her to dance at the school dance on Valentine's Day. She tried to say no thank you, and the principal overheard and intervened and told her she's not allowed to say no and that she has to dance with him.
This boy has been quoted as publicly saying something very disturbing of a sexual nature."

If it happened as this mother said, then we are not talking about a girl rudely mocking a boy who asked her to dance. She felt uncomfortable because of sexual things the boy said. She said no thank you, and the principal forced her to dance anyway.

Again, if anyone thinks it was wrong for this girl to turn down a slow dance with a boy, try to put yourself in her shoes by imagining a similar scenario at work, and your boss forcing unwanted touch on you by another coworker