middle school dance -- girls can't turn down a guy who asks them

[Rockette_Scientist]

It's Utah.

Probably the equivalent of ballroom dancing in physical education (which is actually huge there).

At ballroom socials it's actually uncommon to for a guy to get turned down from a dance. It's considered to be rude of a woman to reject him unless something is very wrong (bad hygiene, a creeper, a groper, etc.).

 

[DisneyOma]

Probably the equivalent of ballroom dancing in physical education (which is actually huge there).

At ballroom socials it's actually uncommon to for a guy to get turned down from a dance. It's considered to be rude of a woman to reject him unless something is very wrong (bad hygiene, a creeper, a groper, etc.).

That's a dreadful societal situation for women, isn't it?

 

[Rockette_Scientist]

That's a dreadful societal situation for women, isn't it?

Not really - ballroom as a whole is generally a bit more "accepting" than a typical social dance. If you go to a ballroom dance social and reject anyone, you better have a good reason to. Few people there ever show up to date in any shape or form - it's just to dance. A real social gala though without the emphasis on becoming a better dancer? Reject all you want. Ballroom socials though have a different set of rules that most people aren't used to.

 

[DisneyOma]

Not really - ballroom as a whole is generally a bit more "accepting" than a typical social dance. If you go to a ballroom dance social and reject anyone, you better have a good reason to. Few people there ever show up to date in any shape or form - it's just to dance. A real social gala though without the emphasis on becoming a better dancer? Reject all you want. Ballroom socials though have a different set of rules that most people aren't used to.

Might be a reason why...

 

[monsterkitty]

And not saying something is just contributing to the “boys will be boys” attitude. It’s sexual harassment and should be treated as such (of course on their level, not a legal one or adult level). Either Mom should have said something or she should teach her daughter to be strong enough to speak up.

The girl was strong enough to speak up. She told the boy no she did not want to dance. It should have ended there but it didn't because the principal wouldn't allow a no.

I teach middle school. I see every day how girls and boys treat each other. I see time after time either a boy or a girl tells the other no I will not be your girlfriend or boyfriend. I see time after time that a lot of kids can no longer handle that rejection. This principal needs to step it up and allow children to learn that they are going to be rejected at some point of their lives.

The principal was out of line and needs to rethink this ridiculous policy.

 

[Rockette_Scientist]

Might be a reason why...

It's very likely the reason why, especially if this was taught in PE.

 

[mummabear]

I know very little about this exact situation. I will say that in elementary school, I want to say about 5th grade or so, we were all taught some square dancing. It was during school hours and the entire grade participated. The teachers paired us up with fellow students. I didn't realize being paired up with a fellow student to learn to square dance was contributing to rape culture and violating my autonomy.

It is square dancing, it isn't during a class and it isn't being paired up by a teacher.

So is pairing them up to work on a project contributing to rape culture? Sometimes I think we go from extreme to extreme. There has to be a happy medium.

If a girl is choosing to say "no" because of petty reasons, like the boy is "ugly" or the boy is "weird"(not perverted just not like the other boys)---that girl needs to learn compassion and needs to learn that sometimes you just need to be nice. But she also needs to know if said boy says or does anything inappropriate, its ok to walk away in that moment. And that there is a difference in saying "yes" to a dance on a gym floor in front of a bunch of adults and not being able to say no to sex. A HUGE difference. Can our girls not understand that? (and you can reverse girl/boy in any of that statement)

Boys and girls need to know what is and isn't appropriate in the ways they act around and toward each other.

I just think our boys and our girls need a lot more teaching on this subject than whether or not its ok to say no or not.

It is ALWAYS ok to say no to dancing with someone.

The contribution to rape culture is the removal of the consent aspect.
If girls must say yes to whoever asks them, it removes their consent in the matter.
And gives negative messages about consent to both the girls and the boys.

And that statement right there is why the amount of compassion people have for others decreases with each generation.

If your daughter won't dance, talk, walk with someone because of his looks that is way too shallow for words.

Sure because the boys aren't asking the girls based on their looks?
It actually doesn't matter what someone's reason for not wanting to dance with someone is. The point is it is their right to decline.

So we can't possibly teach our daughters the difference in saying yes to a dance and no to sex? Funny, I danced with a lot of people in my teen years. Never had an issue with saying a loud and clear no to other things. What is the change?

The point is that consent needs to be taught early. And practicing giving and recieving consent, and dealing with rejection starts with these small things.

 

[mrodgers]

Not really - ballroom as a whole is generally a bit more "accepting" than a typical social dance. If you go to a ballroom dance social and reject anyone, you better have a good reason to. Few people there ever show up to date in any shape or form - it's just to dance. A real social gala though without the emphasis on becoming a better dancer? Reject all you want. Ballroom socials though have a different set of rules that most people aren't used to.

If you choose to ballroom dance, then sure, make it "accepting". Being forced to ballroom dance it's a different story. In today's world, no dancing should be taught as a part of the education for the very reason of this thread's discussion.

 

[Rockette_Scientist]

If you choose to ballroom dance, then sure, make it "accepting". Being forced to ballroom dance it's a different story. In today's world, no dancing should be taught as a part of the education for the very reason of this thread's discussion.

Many kids these days are forced to play soccer or any other sport as part of PE. How is this different?

 

[mrodgers]

Many kids these days are forced to play soccer or any other sport as part of PE. How is this different?

If you can't see the difference of kicking a ball around a field and dancing with someone, then I can't explain.

 

[mummabear]

But would you be okay if you daughter turned down a dance because someone mentally challenged asked her.

Yes. Do I think my kids should be accepting and including also yes, but there is a big difference in slow dancing with someone who makes you feel uncomfortable for any reason and say picking them for your team in PE class.

At the same time, we must acknowledge that it's scary for boys (or girls) to "put themselves out there" and ask for a dance. Just as we don't want girls to feel forced, we don't want boys to feel afraid of rejection.

Nope, and practice makes perfect. Everyone gets rejected in life.

making sure no one is excluded.

You are reading one side on a Facebook page.

The article, where the Mon spoke didn’t say anything about any of that. And the girl said no to the boy but it said nothing of her telling the principal why.

You have asked a dozen times how anyone would feel if their boss made them dance with a co worker. Then when it’s said “this would be my situation” it “oh well that is fine but they have a different problem. If you don’t want an answer, don’t ask.

Nothing in the initial article said that they ever told the principal why. Neither the girl or the mom. In fact he said if there was someone she didn’t want to dance with, she should tell him beforehand.

She doesnt have to say why. No is a complete sentence.

 

[mjkacmom]

Is this really what middle schoolers are like nowadays? It’s been nearly 30 years since I was in middle school, but our dances were nothing like this. We had slow dancing, but far more sexualized were the fast dances where everyone sandwiched themselves boy/girl/boy/girl and grinded on each other. There was no mass separation of girls against one wall and boys on the other*, everyone too afraid to dance with the opposite sex. And definitely no one was running around like it was recess. It was a dance and, by and large, that’s what people did. Surely there were students who preferred socializing over dancing but, fortunately, everyone was free to participate (or not) in only the types of dancing they were comfortable with, which is a lot better than what’s going on in the OP scenario.

*Well, except for when the song Work the Walls was played and everyone literally started humping the walls. Ah, DC in the early 90s...

That’s not how middle school dances were when I was in middle school, that sounds like a night at the Limelight in Manhattan!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I do remember learning square and line dancing in school. You were paired up randomly. For me it was uncomfortable at that age moreso because I was more shy then. However, with respects to that at the very least it was randomly paired up. Maybe not different enough for other people but I would consider it different enough to what the situation is in the OP. In the OP it's a dance where you get to ask others to dance with you.

The concept is not a bad one where you don't want people to feel left out. The reality is that's going to happen at some point to just about everyone out there. I agree with posters who say you need to learn, regardless of gender though, on how to take rejection. It's going to happen and not just from someone you like but from jobs too and other things (like schools, like loans, etc). I don't agree with the idea that you can't say no for whatever reason. I know it was mentioned somewhere in the thread about rejecting based on xyz like disability, etc and I get that but you don't need to give a rationale for saying no though. Saying it nicely like "no thank you" to me is rationale enough and perfectly acceptable. {ETA: I should add I really don't see an issue with saying a simple "no" either in all honesty. There really just isn't a reason to say no but then have to follow it up with a why IMO}

I did notice in the article from the OP the principal says that they requested the students to accept all invitiations rather than outright forcing but that can certainly come off as "no really you really can't effectively say no" not to mention it's still the idea behind being advised to not really say no.

 

[Pumbaa_]

Oh hell to the no.
I don’t have children.

if I did, this situation is unacceptable. My child, and any female or make, adult or child, has the right to say no and not be forced to touch someone against their will.

its as bad as making a kid kiss and hug relatives. No, it’s not ok.

 

[Skippy918]

My son learned line dancing in PE in middle school. His school has separate PE classes for boys and girls.
There’s also a dance team but it’s more jazz/hip hop and no partner dancing. I haven’t seen any boys on the dance team.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My son learned line dancing in PE. His school has separate PE classes for boys and girls.
There’s also a dance team but it’s more jazz/hip hop and no partner dancing. I haven’t seen any boys on the dance team.

In elementary school, where we learned square dancing and line dancing, it wasn't seperated out by gender. By middle school it was. However, there were times where activities were done together. The gym was separated by a divider for the different genders but then opened up for certain joint activities.

I honestly don't remember dancing lessons in middle school probably because it was taught in elementary school and in middle school dance itself it was an elective. I don't remember lessons taught in P.E. in middle school but I suppose it was totally possible and I'm just not remembering

I remember in high school I took a dance elective where you did learn different types of dancing including line again but you also did zumba and created your own routines. That was generally girls with weights elective being generally boys but every now and then you'd see boys in dance and girls in weights.

 

[MrsPete]

A kid at school that makes my daughter uncomfortable asked her to dance at the school dance on Valentine's Day. She tried to say no thank you, and the principal overheard and intervened and told her she's not allowed to say no and that she has to dance with him.
This boy has been quoted as publicly saying something very disturbing of a sexual nature."

This is more detail than we had earlier, and -- with the nature of the media (and social media) these days, it's really impossible for us to know the details of what really happened. As such, we're all just making guesses.

How many middle school girls do you know? I can just about guarantee if there is a boy asking who is the grade out cast or one of them, and he approaches a group of girls, he isn’t going to get a polite response. Middle school girls are the worst at making someone feel two inches tall.

About that, we don't have to guess -- if the girl in question was in a group, she almost certainly didn't reject him quietly and politely. More evidence: Whatever happened caught the attention of the principal. The girl likely wasn't standing next to the principal at the dance. However, again, we're guessing -- was she in a group or was she standing alone?

DH had to learn square dancing in his PE class.

Okay, confession time: I loved square dancing day back in elementary school!
If -- and I'm saying if -- they were square dancing, and it was time for the girl to "do si do", which I think means just joining elbows and going in a circle once, I think she should've done it. That'd be a part of a group dance and no more invasive than working side-by-side on a science experiment.
Also, if the teacher assigned partners, it takes some social pressure off the kids: No one thinks I like Joey -- we were all assigned partners.

Realistically, though, we don't have any idea what type of dance was involved. Was it a slow dance? A line dance? We don't know. We don't know much at all.

Many kids these days are forced to play soccer or any other sport as part of PE. How is this different?

Soccer is a contact sport but not as intimate as a typical dance. A creep could touch someone else inappropriately, but it'd be hard to make it happen.

 

[wilbret]

Yeah, my daughter would not attend

 

[Dead2009]

The title of this thread is clearly clickbait because the article mentions KIDS, not just GIRLS. The same applied to the boys who didnt want to dance with whoever.

 

[Searc]

We learned square dancing in PE in 8th grade or Freshman year. We had to dance with everyone, as is the nature of square dancing. It wasn't a big deal.

A school dance is something else entirely and if what was posted is true, it is in no way acceptable.