Mexicos War On America

[Viking]

So there goes more of my tax dollars to support families living in Mexico. Aint that just lovely. Meanwhile, there is people here in America LEGALLY if not by birthright that dont even have a home to live in. Just stop by a shelter one day and you will see many men and women who can still work but are not working. Why, because if hired by anyone, that employer would have to pay higher wages along with taxes and social security. They dont have that burden now with illegal immigrants. America cant even help its own people much less every other countries, mainly Mexicos, who pretty much force them to come here.

As long as there's enough money to burn in Iraq there should be sufficient means to help at home

 

[crazyme5kids]

I was in Mexico last June, and had a driver to take me to different areas for some sight seeing. At many areas there were armed gaurds/military. The driver explained that they were there due to certain areas being known for illegals trying to head north toward the USA boarder. So, it was my expierence that the Mexican government is trying to do something. Obviously it isn't a complete solution, but it is a start. I also saw quite a bit of highway and road building going on. When the road infrastucture for a country is better developed I think the local economy starts to pick up, thus more jobs on a local level. They have a long way to go, but at least I feel there is some progress from what I saw. Just my opinion, I won't debate this issue.

 

[wvrevy]

John - I've said this before as well...I don't have a complete solution. Put simply, I don't have enough knowledge of the situation - and neither does anyone else on this board - to form a complete solution to this extremely complex problem. What I do know, however, is that I have no interest in seeing a new Berlin wall - complete with machine gun nests and "checkpoints" - built on our southern border.

Jabber-Jaws - Saying it would be financially ruinous isn't "fear-mongering", it is simple truth. How many billions are you willing to spend to solve this "problem" ? First, you have to build, man, and arm those working on the wall. Then you have to expand the INS so that they are capable of "rounding up" the estimated 11 million people already here illegally. Then you have to house those people somewhere, and - though you may not agree - treat them humanely. Then you have to investigate every case to make certain that you have not accidentally "rounded up" someone here legally. Then you have to finance court proceedings to authorize deporting each of those people.

And, oh yeah, you then have to (further) subsidize the agriculture industry that depends so heavily on the cheap labor provided by many of these people. That also means that prices for products will have to increase.

Again, this is not as simple as "round all the brown skins up and toss 'em out, then lock the door behind them."

 

[Jabber_Jaws]

Jabber-Jaws - Saying it would be financially ruinous isn't "fear-mongering", it is simple truth. How many billions are you willing to spend to solve this "problem" ? First, you have to build, man, and arm those working on the wall. Then you have to expand the INS so that they are capable of "rounding up" the estimated 11 million people already here illegally. Then you have to house those people somewhere, and - though you may not agree - treat them humanely. Then you have to investigate every case to make certain that you have not accidentally "rounded up" someone here legally. Then you have to finance court proceedings to authorize deporting each of those people.

And, oh yeah, you then have to (further) subsidize the agriculture industry that depends so heavily on the cheap labor provided by many of these people. That also means that prices for products will have to increase.

Again, this is not as simple as "round all the brown skins up and toss 'em out, then lock the door behind them."

WASHINGTON (August 25, 2004) — A new study from the Center for Immigration Studies is one of the first to estimate the impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Based on Census Bureau data, the study estimates that households headed by illegal aliens used $10 billion more in government services than they paid in taxes in 2002. These figures are only for the federal government; costs at the state and local level are also likely to be significant. The study also finds that if illegals were given amnesty, the fiscal deficit at the federal level would grow to nearly $29 billion.

Among the findings:

Illegal alien households are estimated to use $2,700 a year more in services than they pay in taxes, creating a total fiscal burden of nearly $10.4 billion on the federal budget in 2002.

Among the largest federal costs: Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

If illegal aliens were legalized and began to pay taxes and use services like legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual fiscal deficit at the federal level would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total federal deficit of $29 billion.

With nearly two-third of illegals lacking a high school diploma, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments — not their legal status or their unwillingness to work.

Amnesty increases costs because illegals would still be largely unskilled, and thus their tax payments would continue to be very modest, but once legalized they would be able to access many more government services.

The fact that legal immigrants with little schooling are a fiscal drain on federal coffers does not mean that legal immigrants overall are a drain. Many legal immigrants are highly skilled.

Because many of the costs are due to their U.S.-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth, barring illegals themselves from federal programs will not significantly reduce costs.

Although they create a net drain on the federal government, the average illegal household pays more than $4,200 a year in federal taxes, for a total of nearly $16 billion.

However, they impose annual costs of more than $26.3 billion, or about $6,950 per illegal household.

About 43 percent, or $7 billion, of the federal taxes illegals pay go to Social Security and Medicare.

Employers do not see the costs associated with less-educated immigrant workers because the costs are spread out among all taxpayers.


I think I found the billions we need. Also please tell me when I ever posted to put up a wall, or where I posted that I would not care if they treat them humanely. Please don't put words in my mouth. Again telling people " You are going to pay up the nose for farm good if the illegals are sent back" is a form of fear-mongering. That is using the fear of hitting your pocketbook.

 

[cardaway]

Again, this is not as simple as "round all the brown skins up and toss 'em out, then lock the door behind them."

Your words, not anybody elses.

 

[wvrevy]

I think I found the billions we need. Also please tell me when I ever posted to put up a wall, or where I posted that I would not care if they treat them humanely. Please don't put words in my mouth. Again telling people " You are going to pay up the nose for farm good if the illegals are sent back" is a form of fear-mongering. That is using the fear of hitting your pocketbook.

That would be great...if there was any way of actually showing that the Center's study was anywhere near accurate. The study is based completely on "estimates" of the illegal population and their incomes, derived by placing a "probablility" to each respondant based on about a half-dozen factors. There is simply no way to know the full impact on either the industries affected or the national budget as a whole.

Most of this "savings" that you are referring to would come from food stamps that would not have to be given out and medicare, with an actual loss coming in social security (since most illegals pay into the system - again, according to this "study" - without getting anything out of it).

IT isn't "fear-mongering", it is a serious concern with serious questions that must be answered before any drastic steps should be taken.

Your words, not anybody elses.

I'm sorry, were we discussing all those canucks that are flooding our borders? Sorry, but yes, I think race does figure into this at some level. I am not saying that everyone that favors stronger immigration controls has racist tendencies. But I have my doubts that there would be nearly the "outcry" if the immigrants we were discussing were our pale-skinned neighbors from the north. JMHO

 

[cardaway]

I'm sorry, were we discussing all those canucks that are flooding our borders? Sorry, but yes, I think race does figure into this at some level. I am not saying that everyone that favors stronger immigration controls has racist tendencies. But I have my doubts that there would be nearly the "outcry" if the immigrants we were discussing were our pale-skinned neighbors from the north. JMHO

This has already been covered so it appears you just ignored it. In the NW the percentages of illegal Asians and Europeans are high. It's not just Hispanics.

The folks on the Southern border can't help it if the percentages change in the other direction, but it doesn't change the problem or make anybody a racist for simply having the oppsoite opinion on this.

 

[Jabber_Jaws]

I'm sorry, were we discussing all those canucks that are flooding our borders? Sorry, but yes, I think race does figure into this at some level. I am not saying that everyone that favors stronger immigration controls has racist tendencies. But I have my doubts that there would be nearly the "outcry" if the immigrants we were discussing were our pale-skinned neighbors from the north. JMHO

I'm not so sure about that. Brian Adams gives me the chills. Those folks from Canada sent him over as an WMD with that voice.

Disclaimer: No Canadians were harmed during the typing of that joke.

 

[marcotter]

As long as there's enough money to burn in Iraq there should be sufficient means to help at home

You would think so, huh? Sorry but thats not the case. This has been going on for a lot longer than Iraq, its only now getting exposure like this because these illegal or otherwise immigrants have something that our leaders dont...B@LLS!! I live in the southern U.S. and have seen what happens when you get an influx of people from another country that DO NOT CARE about our laws or way of living.

 

[Simba's Mom]

Here is my question . . . so what is Mexico's President Vicente Fox doing to better his economy, besides send his people to America? Why don't the Mexicans protest there in Mexico in front of his offices, while the kids skip school to march around the streets to make their statements like they do here in America? Why are the Mexicans not holding him accountable for their lack of jobs and benefits?

I am open to hear any and all answers to this.

I agree!! Vicente Fox is a very big part of the problem. Down here in our newspapers, he was even quoted as saying that one reason he doesn't want the U.S. to make illegal immigration harder is that the Mexican economy depends on all the money sent back by the illegal Mexicans who come to America in search of jobs, then send money back to their families in Mexico. That's probably why our local Western Union offices, where you can send money to Mexico, are packed at the end of the week.

 

[PixieDust32]

I agree!! Vicente Fox is a very big part of the problem. Down here in our newspapers, he was even quoted as saying that one reason he doesn't want the U.S. to make illegal immigration harder is that the Mexican economy depends on all the money sent back by the illegal Mexicans who come to America in search of jobs, then send money back to their families in Mexico. That's probably why our local Western Union offices, where you can send money to Mexico, are packed at the end of the week.

BINGO!

 

[Viking]

You would think so, huh? Sorry but thats not the case. This has been going on for a lot longer than Iraq, its only now getting exposure like this because these illegal or otherwise immigrants have something that our leaders dont...B@LLS!! I live in the southern U.S. and have seen what happens when you get an influx of people from another country that DO NOT CARE about our laws or way of living.

You should be aware that you also have a lot of Americans who don't care about your laws or way of living: More than 2.1 million inmates in US-prisons are sufficient proof for that. A society which has to lock away about 1% of its adult population has a severe problem.

 

[Jabber_Jaws]

You should be aware that you also have a lot of Americans who don't care about your laws or way of living: More than 2.1 million inmates in US-prisons are sufficient proof for that. A society which has to lock away about 1% of its adult population has a severe problem.

Citing an Urban Institute study, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies Steven Camorata noted in 2004: "Roughly 17 percent of the prison population at the federal level are illegal aliens. That's a huge number since illegal aliens only account for about 3 percent of the total population.

 

[lw49033]

Thank you ever so much for your constructive input. Very helpful. I suppose I should be listening to CNN for fair and balanced news.

Compared to Rush Limbaugh, yes, CNN would be an improvement...although you shouldn't take what anyone on tv says without a grain (or a teacupful) of salt.

 

[lw49033]

In 1836, legends Davy Crockett, Jim Bowie and William Travis, along with 180 fearless men, fought Santa Annas two thousand Mexican troops at the Alamo in San Antonio, Texas. No contest! Santa Anna killed every last one of those brave men. Six weeks later, with a cry of Remember the Alamo, Texans beat back the Mexican army and established Texas as part of the United States of America.

Heh. This redneck apparently hasn't heard of the Republic of Texas.