Membership Magic Beyond

[emchen]

I have always considered buy in a sunk cost.

Bold emphasis by me.

but by definition they are not a sunk cost.

I think we are in danger of talking past one another. We are talking about the money we paid to purchase the contracts (the buy in), which by definition is a sunk cost (ie. it cannot be recouped from the seller, DVD). You are talking about being able to rent out the points for double what DVC is offering, which by definition is a potentially recurring revenue stream. A commercial endeavor in other words. Commercial uses of our points are technically not allowed by contract.

 

[Sandisw]

For hybrid members and the season passes, would we be able to use our resale points for them as long as the member qualifies for direct benefits? I couldn't find it anywhere in the details.

For cruises, etc they let you book using resale if your points were bought before restrictions were announced right? So they were grandfathered.

Would it be something similar here? If you have resale points from before they started Membership Magic Beyond, then maybe we will be able to use them for the pass swap but not anyone who bought after?

They have not yet clarified what. I too am waiting to find out which of my points I will be able to trade.

My guess, and only a guess, it will be limited to direct points or resale points bought before 2012, which matches the trading into the Disney collection.

But, it will be great for me if they allow any points because then I will use my SSR points since those were bought resale buy after 2012, instead of some of my VGF !

 

[ctonkgo]

The obvious endgame for Disney is to move all decent benefits of direct DVC to a paid tier. My theory is that all discounted tickets, including Sorcerers Pass, will eventually become part of a paid program available to DVC direct purchasers.

Resale is still a superior option for most people. To sell more DVC, Disney needs to make DVC direct member benefits more worthwhile. However, straight up improving direct benefits doesn't allow Disney to extract additional money from existing direct contract holders.

My DW and I are new to DVC (but not Disney Parks), and in our purchasing direct/resale spreadsheets it simply didn't make financial sense for us to buy direct. We were looking at 150 points at Riviera direct, but that doesn't even get you enough days per year to make use of the Sorcerers pass at anytime of the year we can travel. If we had the option of buying discounted weekday discounted tickets, we may have opted to still go direct.

 

[SL6827]

The obvious endgame for Disney is to move all decent benefits of direct DVC to a paid tier. My theory is that all discounted tickets, including Sorcerers Pass, will eventually become part of a paid program available to DVC direct purchasers.

Resale is still a superior option for most people. To sell more DVC, Disney needs to make DVC direct member benefits more worthwhile. However, straight up improving direct benefits doesn't allow Disney to extract additional money from existing direct contract holders.

My DW and I are new to DVC (but not Disney Parks), and in our purchasing direct/resale spreadsheets it simply didn't make financial sense for us to buy direct. We were looking at 150 points at Riviera direct, but that doesn't even get you enough days per year to make use of the Sorcerers pass at anytime of the year we can travel. If we had the option of buying discounted weekday discounted tickets, we may have opted to still go direct.

Yes. They want more and more money from direct purchasers or those grandfathered in. Could this make an uptick in resale possible?

 

[ctonkgo]

Yes. They want more and more money from direct purchasers or those grandfathered in. Could this make an uptick in resale possible?

My guess is as good as yours. If direct subscriber benefits become worthwhile I could see some people selling off their resale points to get cash for direct purchases.

In the long run though, I think Disney's moves to kill the resale market will only hurt the DVC product. Most educated people understand how bad of an idea it is to buy a timeshare, yet many will still buy into DVC because they A) visit the parks frequently and B) the resale value exists. If they totally wreck the resale value for DVC ala Riviera I would expect a large drop in direct purchases or interest in DVC all together.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Bold emphasis by me.

I think we are in danger of talking past one another. We are talking about the money we paid to purchase the contracts (the buy in), which by definition is a sunk cost (ie. it cannot be recouped from the seller, DVD). You are talking about being able to rent out the points for double what DVC is offering, which by definition is a potentially recurring revenue stream. A commercial endeavor in other words. Commercial uses of our points are technically not allowed by contract.

Well the price a Member rents for should cover both the current cost of dues, plus a portion of the buy in.
So, nothing is truly a sunk cost.

 

[Bearval]

And, I know there are people who no longer support Disney to the degree they did and my DH is one of them…he is not a fan of all the changes so he doesn’t go as much as he used to.


But, if we are talking views, I have had the dumpster view at BRV and it wasn’t enough to ruin my trip. I have overlooked the roof at RIV and VGF again, not enough to ruin my trip.

So if I am stuck with what someone else might think is a horrible view because someone else paid for a better view because views are that important to them to have it, then I am willing to be stuck, even if yes, it benefits a stock holder.

It comes back to seeing things from the lense of a consumer who gets to make decisions when a business makes changes. I am a huge believer in choice too and that we get to make our own choices, regardless of what others believe and think.

Maybe most consumers don’t do things this way…but I do.

Heck, I drive a Dodge truck now because my Chevy dealership wasn’t willing to help me as a long time customer because of new owners. Was I mad because they refused to give me fair value for my trade, without paying them extra? Nope because I got to choose and they ended up losing in the end.

So, Disney is a business and if they make decisions that hurt their bottom line, they will adjust or suffer the consequences.

But I still believe that more choices are always better for consumers and as long as someone is informed ahead of time and know upfront what changes will be, then choices are a good thing

Bringing it back to this particular program, for me, as a consumer, it’s a good deal and I appreciate DVC creating something that allows me to use my membership in a way will save me money, as long I choose to buy it.

ETA: Anyone who doesn’t like aspects of the program can and should let DVC know…but I also think it’s okay that some of us don’t see this particular program as a money grab.

If DVD is charging “extra “ outside of just more points for your view all of that money should be going to support the MFs.

 

[Sandisw]

If DVD is charging “extra “ outside of just more points for your view all of that money should be going to support the MFs.

Not sure what this has to do with MFs. Just because we are DVC owners, it should not preclude being given special fee based programs.

It is not required and is completely voluntary. Yes. I know, people are upset that is not free or that DVd should never charge for benefits. And they have every right to that opinion.

However, OTU points are points they own. They charge $20/pt for owners to purchase if needed.

If you want to get a discount on them, then you can pay a yearly $99 fee and they will now cost you half. Buy more than 5 and it’s a savings.

How is that anything more than lowering the ultimate cost for those owners who are DVC Y that buy them?

Same thing with the AP…pay a trade fee to convert…currently can’t do that. How is that not saving owners money who have extra points they don’t need?

So, what have they really done? Given us things that benefit us in exchange for a yearly fee IF we want to pay that fee.


Those that will choose to purchase this will do so because they end up saving much more than the $99 fee. If they won’t, then they won’t buy.

It’s a win for those of us who see its value and who also aren’t analyzing it for more than what it is.

If someone doesn’t see value, that’s okay. If they are worried it’s a slippery slope and they don’t trust DVC to change all benefits That’s okay. They don’t like when Disney makes any money…that’s okay too

But, this program does give owners savings and benefits that are nice, even if DVD may be getting a win too.

ETA: The biggest thing I keep forgetting is Memory Maker.. if you are not someone e who can add it to an AP for $99, you get that for $99, when it’s costing anywhere from $75 to $210.

 

[Genie+]

95pts for AP can be a good value to alot of owners.

We’re looking at it from over here on the DIS where most of us have spent a good deal of time studying DVC.

Plenty of owners don’t bother with all of that. Especially people who have owned a long time or inherited and now have more points than they regularly need. If they can trade points so they don’t need to pay out of pocket for tickets? That is great!

 

[nalababybear]

I'm just glad you can buy a ticket at Disneyland:. Hope it will be substantive to the socal tickets. Also would be good to expand ap to include mk option on this side.

 

[Tatebeck]

I did get a Member Services representative via chat that confirmed the current plan is 95 points for a new Sorcerer's Pass and 80 for a renewal. They also said that they were being told at this time that it will be direct points only that can be used. (They also said to keep checking the site for updates and that any of this could still change of course)

Now I personally think that it would be ridiculous to restrict the pass purchase to direct points only. I think it will greatly reduce the number of members interested in it. If a member has grandfathered points or has purchased 150+ points direct recently, is eligible for Members Extras, and purchased the Beyond pass, then obviously that member is supporting Disney. And it doesn't matter where the points come from, once Disney has them via trade they wouldn't be restricted to the original 14 resorts or to a single resort anymore anyway. Just seems like a slap in the face.

It also seems like it goes against what the terms and conditions say currently. They say that the member has to be eligible for Members Extras (grandfathered contracts or 150+ direct points currently) in order to buy the Beyond membership. Then the Beyond terms only say that eligible members who purchase will be able to use their points and nowhere in the terms does it differentiate between direct and resale. I told the chat representative that if it truly will be direct only points, they need to update their terms and conditions because that is not what they currently say. If they aren't updated by the time it goes live then I may just purchase it and bug the crap out of them until they let me use my resale points as the terms don't disallow that lol.

But If I have to use ONLY my RIV points every year for the pass, then that means I would be able to stay there less than anticipated, basically forever. If I was able to alternate points then I could use 1 resort for passes and take a break from that resort for a year. Much more desirable.

 

[davidhr]

95pts for AP can be a good value to alot of owners.

We’re looking at it from over here on the DIS where most of us have spent a good deal of time studying DVC.

Plenty of owners don’t bother with all of that. Especially people who have owned a long time or inherited and now have more points than they regularly need. If they can trade points so they don’t need to pay out of pocket for tickets? That is great!

One thing a lot of users here forget, and I’m guilty of that sometimes, is that we are a very small minority of DVC users. Most people don’t go into the details we do. Most people don’t calculate how much each point is “worth”.

It’s good to remember that DVC is not taking decisions just for disboards users.

 

[Sandisw]

I did get a Member Services representative via chat that confirmed the current plan is 95 points for a new Sorcerer's Pass and 80 for a renewal. They also said that they were being told at this time that it will be direct points only that can be used. (They also said to keep checking the site for updates and that any of this could still change of course)

Now I personally think that it would be ridiculous to restrict the pass purchase to direct points only. I think it will greatly reduce the number of members interested in it. If a member has grandfathered points or has purchased 150+ points direct recently, is eligible for Members Extras, and purchased the Beyond pass, then obviously that member is supporting Disney. And it doesn't matter where the points come from, once Disney has them via trade they wouldn't be restricted to the original 14 resorts or to a single resort anymore anyway. Just seems like a slap in the face.

It also seems like it goes against what the terms and conditions say currently. They say that the member has to be eligible for Members Extras (grandfathered contracts or 150+ direct points currently) in order to buy the Beyond membership. Then the Beyond terms only say that eligible members who purchase will be able to use their points and nowhere in the terms does it differentiate between direct and resale. I told the chat representative that if it truly will be direct only points, they need to update their terms and conditions because that is not what they currently say. If they aren't updated by the time it goes live then I may just purchase it and bug the crap out of them until they let me use my resale points as the terms don't disallow that lol.

But If I have to use ONLY my RIV points every year for the pass, then that means I would be able to stay there less than anticipated, basically forever. If I was able to alternate points then I could use 1 resort for passes and take a break from that resort for a year. Much more desirable.

The T and C don’t actually say one way or the other what points can be used. So, while I agree with you that they should be more clear, I don’t think the absence of it changes what points they ultimately define to be “eligible” to trade.

Think of it this way…you can have direct points good to trade into all resorts and have resale points that can’t. But, it would help if the T and C were updated and maybe they will be when they actually role out the specifics.

I can say that it’s consistent with how the write waiving of the $95 fee for the Disney collection trades. It does not include what the eligible points that can be used for that either but we know that it’s only direct or resale bought before 2012.

I do have plenty of direct points to use and will use my VGF points that I can use for now. I thought I was going to do new but realize I can make the renewal work as it will cover a lot of mt early 2026 trips so only need the 80 points!

But, I agree with you, this particular feature is going to be worth it for those who have a larger number of points, especially direct ones, and further support their model of direct points having a feature resale points don’t.

As I mentioned, I keep forgetting about memory maker. I usually add it to the AP for $99 but we really don’t need the unlimited one.

Now, I can pay $99 for the 30 day one included here and consider all the other aspects “free”

So, for 2025, it’s not even costing me anything extra!

 

[Tatebeck]

I can say that it’s consistent with how the write waiving of the $95 fee for the Disney collection trades. It does not include what the eligible points that can be used for that either but we know that it’s only direct or resale bought before 2012.

But the Disney Collection page does specifically mention which points/ownerships can and can't be used. From https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/vacation-planning/how-to-book/disney-collection

"Exchange options in the Disney Collection and options offered through hotel exchange are not available for ownership interests not purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development, LLC after March 21, 2011, and, effective April 4, 2016, Members who have not purchased an ownership interest directly from Disney Vacation Development, LLC will not have access to Membership Extras."

The Beyond page and Beyond terms and conditions do not have any such disclaimer

 

[Sandisw]

But the Disney Collection page does specifically mention which points/ownerships can and can't be used. From https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/vacation-planning/how-to-book/disney-collection

"Exchange options in the Disney Collection and options offered through hotel exchange are not available for ownership interests not purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development, LLC after March 21, 2011, and, effective April 4, 2016, Members who have not purchased an ownership interest directly from Disney Vacation Development, LLC will not have access to Membership Extras."

The Beyond page and Beyond terms and conditions do not have any such disclaimer

Yes, that’s there as a link because that program exists. The Sorcerer Pass is new so nothing yet to link.

My guess is that once the website includes the specific information regarding this program, the link to that will be inserted in the T and C too like the link above for the Disney Collection was inserted.

To add, this has not yet even gone on sale so plenty of time for DVC to get the specifics out there still.

 

[Tatebeck]

I guess we'll see when they update it. It still seems pretty silly to do that though if they want to sell more Beyond memberships!

 

[Sandisw]

I guess we'll see when they update it. It still seems pretty silly to do that though if they want to sell more Beyond memberships!

Honestly I’d bet most people who have heard about this have not even looked at that page nor will they ever.

They will rely on the information that is posted on the website…or shared in the email…and that will be clear before sales start.

ETA: Heck, they haven’t even officially released the 80 and 95 number yet for the trades. It’s only been discovered by people asking.

 

[New Mouse]

95 is an absurd cost if you're points are new. That's $1330 just based off Disney's OTUP valuation.

 

[tx911]

95 is an absurd cost if you're points are new. That's $1330 based off Disney's valuation.

Agree, and I'm not a big fan of 80 either. I'll be using cash for my APs.

 

[Sandisw]

Agree, and I'm not a big fan of 80 either. I'll be using cash for my APs.

It’s definitely not going to be seen as a value to everyone…

Seems though that the value is a bit higher than trading for cruises…and yes, they is not the best way to use points either.

It really will come down to whether someone has extra points to burn and can benefit from saving the cash.

What would be interesting is if anyone would add on more points for this sole purpose of covering the AP regularly.. I’d think not?