Incentivizing direct purchase over resale

[PolyRob]

Id say direct is much more important to own on the west coast since 1/3 of the resorts on the west are restricted. 1/2 when non theme park resorts are taken out of the equation. I do think they need a better DVC AP for DLR.

Even the DL tickets with MMB. No weekends? I want nighttime spectaculars with fireworks!

 

[AstroBlasters]

Even the DL tickets with MMB. No weekends? I want nighttime spectaculars with fireworks!

Yeah…. and the weekdays have shorter hours…

I would take no Fridays and Saturdays if they would give us Sundays…. Sunday nights can be great!

 

[VGCgroupie]

Even the DL tickets with MMB. No weekends? I want nighttime spectaculars with fireworks!

Exactly, I didnt even think about that. If they cant give a decent AP discount at least make the MMB tickets a bit more useable. I would honestly even like if the tickets were good after 1pm or 2pm on weekends.

 

[MartyParty]

As much as I don't like them, I think the resale restrictions are going to be really effective over time to incentivize direct purchases. I agree with many of the complaints about those restrictions, but the reality is that they are going to make the resale product much less attractive over time when compared to a direct contract. That makes it easier to sell direct DVC not on the cost vs resale, but basically as a completely different product. Already 3 (soon to be 4 one would guess) resorts are unavailable if you are a resale owner.

For me it's still been worth it to save $60-70 per point on our resale points (we're 250 direct AK, 200 resale SSR), but it complicates any plans to take a big trip to Riviera or stay in a 2 BR at VDH. Not quite enough to wish I had forked out an extra $12-14K for direct points, but enough to make it clear that even with a blue card already there was a significant tradeoff involved.

Agree on the time component. I think it's a long-time component.

I think of it as a broad-brush stroke of two camps:

1 DVC owners who are in for 7-12 years and then out as the children become adults
2 DVC owners who are in for it the long-haul 20+ years, intended to pass points to the family, or could be Disney adults who will go regardless of kids.

We've discussed this for some time in our family having determined we are in camp 2. DVC direct benefits as we know today will be different in the 2030's, 2040's, etc. By the time our last contract expires our children will be in their early 70's. They are in their early 20's and for now do want to pick up the points/dues once we're gone. With that time horizon, we believe the benefits / enjoyment of being direct has a lot of appeal. Who knows what could be on offer 2050 and beyond.

Now if we were in camp 1, in then out once the kids become adults, I think resale would be the best. Of course, there is the blended approach of some direct and some resale.

I'm not sure most owners give thought to the time component for how long they might want to keep these points. I would guess many on this board are camp 2. Outside this board as a percentage of ownership, I would also guess most are in camp 1 and sell out after 10-15 years.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Exactly, I didnt even think about that. If they cant give a decent AP discount at least make the MMB tickets a bit more useable. I would honestly even like if the tickets were good after 1pm or 2pm on weekends.

I think the thing with Disneyland is that they really don’t need more people in the park than they already have.

 

[808blessing]

In that case just give certain perks only for new people who bought within a new x month period for x amount of months.

If they tier it, then all the big dogs would just collect more perks on existing points. That’s like giving the millionaires a tax cut.

I think what I proposed before might work to get the not-wanting-to buy/spend frugal people off the bench and go direct. So tempt them with a low hanging fruit. That’s what got me off the resale bench somewhat. But maybe I’m not the ideal demographic.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I think the thing with Disneyland is that they really don’t need more people in the park than they already have.

True, but I am in the camp of treat your most loyal customers better than the rest. ie: those that have spent so much money to join the elusive vacation club. Then again I used to think they would give club 33 members the world, and I now know that is not the case. They are treated well, but honestly not as well as I wouldve guessed.

I would be very happy if they offered a better Magic Key discount only to VDH/VGC direct owners that own a certain amount of points. That could also drive sales for VDH.

 

[AstroBlasters]

True, but I am in the camp of treat your most loyal customers better than the rest. ie: those that have spent so much money to join the elusive vacation club. Then again I used to think they would give club 33 members the world, and I now know that is not the case. They are treated well, but honestly not as well as I wouldve guessed.

I would be very happy if they offered a better Magic Key discount only to VDH/VGC direct owners that own a certain amount of points. That could also drive sales for VDH.

Yes, but this is how executives are judged:

 

[PolyRob]

True, but I am in the camp of treat your most loyal customers better than the rest. ie: those that have spent so much money to join the elusive vacation club. Then again I used to think they would give club 33 members the world, and I now know that is not the case. They are treated well, but honestly not as well as I wouldve guessed.

I would be very happy if they offered a better Magic Key discount only to VDH/VGC direct owners that own a certain amount of points. That could also drive sales for VDH.

I really don't know how the CA-based guides do it with families only visiting DL. The onsite perks aren't even there anymore.

 

[Brian Noble]

The same way anyone sells any timeshare: You catch people while they are on vacation, and promise to bottle that magical feeling for decades to come at today's prices.

 

[Kingkonig]

The same way anyone sells any timeshare: You catch people while they are on vacation, and promise to bottle that magical feeling for decades to come at today's prices.

Exactly. Plus, as much as a timeshare seems like a sketchy purchase, it at least feels like you’re interacting with a more honest salesperson than a used timeshare salesman (broker).

Not sure what it is exactly, because the product is (mostly) the same, but from a psychological perspective the consumer can see that the in-person salesperson is showing off the actual product and seems happy to try to sell it to you. A broker? The image is “hey the person who originally bought this doesn’t want it anymore and hired somebody to sell it for them”. People will pay a high premium for what feels like a more positive interaction.

 

[juxtapose]

As a first-time buyer 2ish years ago, we bought re-sale because if we ended up having to sell the contract, we will get more money because it won't have huge restrictions. If they got rid of the re-sale restrictions on new resorts, we'd actually be more likely to buy direct. Buying Riviera at $245 direct (or whatever it is at now) but seeing re-sale is only $115 or below is not good. I'd also be concerned that the new resorts will become hard to book at 11 months as more and more contracts are re-sale and those points are all locked into only that resort.

If we bought points again in the future, I'd be more likely to be direct as we would feel more confident it was a longer-term purchase for us.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Exactly. Plus, as much as a timeshare seems like a sketchy purchase, it at least feels like you’re interacting with a more honest salesperson than a used timeshare salesman (broker).

Not sure what it is exactly, because the product is (mostly) the same, but from a psychological perspective the consumer can see that the in-person salesperson is showing off the actual product and seems happy to try to sell it to you. A broker? The image is “hey the person who originally bought this doesn’t want it anymore and hired somebody to sell it for them”. People will pay a high premium for what feels like a more positive interaction.

I actually felt way more put off by all of the DVC guides I ever came in contact with over the years.

 

[Sandisw]

As a first-time buyer 2ish years ago, we bought re-sale because if we ended up having to sell the contract, we will get more money because it won't have huge restrictions. If they got rid of the re-sale restrictions on new resorts, we'd actually be more likely to buy direct. Buying Riviera at $245 direct (or whatever it is at now) but seeing re-sale is only $115 or below is not good. I'd also be concerned that the new resorts will become hard to book at 11 months as more and more contracts are re-sale and those points are all locked into only that resort.

If we bought points again in the future, I'd be more likely to be direct as we would feel more confident it was a longer-term purchase for us.

People do mention that RiV might be difficult because of resale but during the home resort period it’s all the same.

One thing I do think that is important is that those buying resale RIV…or any future restricted resort resale..are choosing it because they want exclusivity at that resort.

They don’t want to trade out. So, any impact on availability isn’t because they are stuck, it’s because they have decided that the trading aspect of DVC isn’t something they care about.

Now, where you might see impact is during non home resort booking since resale buyer have indicated by their purchase that restricted resort is all the want.

This isn’t about what happens to a resale buyer who fails to book early. That is a choice and if one can’t book during home resort or close to 11 months, it’s not the product to choose.

Now, I get those who use resale value as part of the equation have hesitation to buy.

But, from DVDs perspective, the majority of buyers are not concerned about it or even know about the resale market so no need to move in a different direction.

 

[PolyRob]

The same way anyone sells any timeshare: You catch people while they are on vacation, and promise to bottle that magical feeling for decades to come at today's prices.

Good point! I guess it's just easy for me to say no or be very skeptical of salespeople. We're not the typical timeshare sales pitch people on these boards HAHA

 

[Mirabell Rose]

I think they will do none of the 3 because Disney doesn’t seem to feel the need to pay attention to DVC.

 

[J-Dog]

Clearly it's in DVC's best interest to incentivize direct purchase over resale. As of now, they have chosen to do this by providing some perks at the 150 direct point level as well as diminishing the value of resale points via restricted resorts.

How do you think DVC should best encourage direct purchases going forward?

1. Continue with resale restrictions, further diminishing the value of resale points over time.
2. Decrease the delta between direct and resale buy-in cost via incentives.
3. Increase the benefits of having direct points (i.e. tiered perks based on number of direct points).

I think that both 1 and 3 could/will happen.

We haven't seen any actual evidence that DVD is thinking of rescinding restrictions - it's all basically wishful thinking on our part. Until something changes, I see no reason that #1 won't happen.

I think #3 is a decent carrot that can be used to drive direct sales, but I would be curious as to how that's implemented. If they add perks at the time of buy-in (i.e. current direct sale owners are not considered), I think that could be a disaster. Other industries, notably the wireless industry, have been bitten in the a** before for giving perks to new client but not ongoing clients. Or, if they make it so new perks just materialize for all of us based on the number of current direct points, then that could be useful - and could encourage people to add-on to reach the next tier.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I think they will do none of the 3 because Disney doesn’t seem to feel the need to pay attention to DVC.

I mean…. they are building a new hotel at WDW…. at least one as part of Disneyland FWD… and maybe another WDW hotel conversion at some point…. so, they pay attention….

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

While it is true that RIV has the same home resort exclusivity period, I think what many of us are concerned about is as more and more owners are locked in resale, they will feel pressure to book right at 11mo or even walk, etc…so it will look more like BWV than it does today. I tend to be pretty on top of it at BC and VGC, but for VGF, I rarely book at 11mo, let alone walk, knowing eventually I can get in somewhere I like/tolerate…restricted resale owners won’t be able to use banked points at all if they get locked out of the resort.

 

[Brian Noble]

restricted resale owners won’t be able to use banked points at all if they get locked out of the resort.

They can be sent over to Interval. It's not the best use, but it can salvage some value. And there are some corner cases that are pretty good.

what many of us are concerned about is as more and more owners are locked in resale, they will feel pressure to book right at 11mo or even walk

And that might make Resort-view and Tower studios hard unless you win the fastest-finger game at 8AM, eleven months to the day. But the rest of the categories? Probably not.

Plus, this would happen anyway, because as owners at all of the other resorts find the cheapest rooms hard to book, they get more aggressive at trying to book them. This might happen a little more quickly, but it was happening no matter what.