Membership Magic Beyond

[Tatebeck]

Maybe if they do another firesale like OKW earlier in the year, otherwise probably not

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

It’s definitely not going to be seen as a value to everyone…

Seems though that the value is a bit higher than trading for cruises…and yes, they is not the best way to use points either.

I was also thinking the AP trade value looked a lot better than cruises, especially if it’s an 80 point renewal. We are thinking of doing a first waive sailing and you have to use direct points and the conversion chart is brutal.

As I was catching up tonight, I was thinking that maybe trying to offer more easy (if not high value!) ways for members to convert unnecessary points to APs or tickets might be a way to try to curb renting that undercuts Disney’s hotel busines? “You why give these points to [broker], which is a hassle, when you can get 70% of the value with a few clicks of your mouse?” (Disney if you’re listening, I’m about to rent out some points for the first time but if you could give me even $13-14/dollar on a cruise exchange I would happily go through you indirectly instead…less than 10 is )

 

[Bearval]

Not sure what this has to do with MFs. Just because we are DVC owners, it should not preclude being given special fee based programs.

It is not required and is completely voluntary. Yes. I know, people are upset that is not free or that DVd should never charge for benefits. And they have every right to that opinion.

However, OTU points are points they own. They charge $20/pt for owners to purchase if needed.

If you want to get a discount on them, then you can pay a yearly $99 fee and they will now cost you half. Buy more than 5 and it’s a savings.

How is that anything more than lowering the ultimate cost for those owners who are DVC Y that buy them?

Same thing with the AP…pay a trade fee to convert…currently can’t do that. How is that not saving owners money who have extra points they don’t need?

So, what have they really done? Given us things that benefit us in exchange for a yearly fee IF we want to pay that fee.


Those that will choose to purchase this will do so because they end up saving much more than the $99 fee. If they won’t, then they won’t buy.

It’s a win for those of us who see its value and who also aren’t analyzing it for more than what it is.

If someone doesn’t see value, that’s okay. If they are worried it’s a slippery slope and they don’t trust DVC to change all benefits That’s okay. They don’t like when Disney makes any money…that’s okay too

But, this program does give owners savings and benefits that are nice, even if DVD may be getting a win too.

ETA: The biggest thing I keep forgetting is Memory Maker.. if you are not someone e who can add it to an AP for $99, you get that for $99, when it’s costing anywhere from $75 to $210.

What I was referring to is if they are charging a fee for a room with a better view this money should not be going to Disney or DVD. We all bought into DVC and the rooms with a better view cost more points and we knew that was the process. If DVD starts giving you a "better" room in those sub categories for an additional fee then that is wrong and those funds should be used towards the owners MFs.

 

[PalmettoPath]

As I'm following along this string as a Canadian direct owner, currently shut out from even the opportunity to buy-in to this new benefit (waiting to hear from DVC as to the reasons), it dawned on me that if all such benefits do eventually move to a paid tier that Int'l users are not allowed to buy, then there is no reason for anyone outside of the U.S. to buy direct. DVC would essentially be making resale the only sensible option for non-U.S. residents. I still see this as a devaluing of our original purchase (currently DVC-Y) and will see if there is a legal challenge to be had if all of this comes to pass.

 

[zavandor]

In the past DVC has offered discounted tickets to every member. It was a 4 days tickets, to be used once at each park. This was offered during the off season.
They also offered once the Platinum pass (which included the water parks) for the cost of the discounted Gold pass. This was when Vulcano bay opened, to try and keep people on Disney property.
So there is precedence that when Disney foresees a slowdown and needs to entice people to stay in their parks, they offered tickets to DVC members with a discount. I posted in the past year that I was expecting a deal on tickets and/or APs because of the opening of Epic Universe next year, it wasn't hard to predict given precedents.

There is also a program to exchange points for services outside the DVC programs: cruises. Points are exchanged for a rate that is very similar to the rumored exchange for the AP and it's available for everyone who has direct points.

Finally, the lounge is available with equal access to all members now, with a possible waitlist at peak times. And sometimes meet and greets are offered to everyone with access to the membership extras (Halloween event and welcome home afternoons, whatever they're called).

So DVC took away things that used to be available to everyone (or everyone with direct points after Membership extras were created) and put them behind a paywall.
To sweeten the deal, they added three things that were never offered before and have a clear monetary value:
- waiving the $95 exchange fee
- Purchase of the MM once a year
- BOGOF on OTU points
Anyone who needs any one of those will get back the membership fee. Use two and you're ahead.
This could be great value for some and actually are a net improvement to the offering of the program.

So it's a mixture: some new things and some old things. If you use the things that have monetary value, you'll clearly have an advantage from this. Otherwise, you're worst off.

Personally: when I joined there were very little perks: a dozen of restaurants had a 10% discount for lunch only and a discount on the AP. That's all. Perks right now are much much better. Also, I never purchased a point direct from Disney, I purchased resale and was grandfathered in. So I am not upset about this change, I'm no worst than how I was when I bought.

But had I bought direct points I would be furious! Of course perks are not guaranteed, but DVD uses membership extras as a marketing tool. They told people: buy 150 points direct and you'll have access to perks. People thought that as long as Membership extras existed, they had access to them. Now perks are taken away and new extras are put behind a paywall. And it's likely just the beginning. Look no further than Genie+: it started at $10 per day, it'll probably be $50 after tax this holiday season. Wait until they announce registration instructions for MM. If there is a LL for lounges, why shouldn't there be one for MM registration? If not in 2025, I expect it in 2026.
And If I were a non US resident who had purchased direct points I would be outraged! Not only they took away some perks that used to be free, they're also preventing them to buy the extended membership.

 

[PalmettoPath]

In the past DVC has offered discounted tickets to every member. It was a 4 days tickets, to be used once at each park. This was offered during the off season.
They also offered once the Platinum pass (which included the water parks) for the cost of the discounted Gold pass. This was when Vulcano bay opened, to try and keep people on Disney property.
So there is precedence that when Disney foresees a slowdown and needs to entice people to stay in their parks, they offered tickets to DVC members with a discount. I posted in the past year that I was expecting a deal on tickets and/or APs because of the opening of Epic Universe next year, it wasn't hard to predict given precedents.

There is also a program to exchange points for offering outside the DVC programs: cruises. Points are exchanged for a rate that is very similar to the rumored exchange for the AP and it's available for everyone who has direct points.

Finally, the lounge is available with equal access to all members now, with a possible waitlist at peak times. And sometimes meet and greets are offered to everyone with access to the membership extras (Halloween event and welcome home afternoons, whatever they're called).

So DVC took away things that used to be available to everyone (or everyone with direct points after Membership extras were created) and put them behind a paywall.
To sweeten the deal, they added three things that were never offered before and have a clear monetary value:
- waiving the $95 exchange fee
- Purchase of the MM once a year
- BOGOF on OTU points
Anyone who needs any one of those will get back the membership fee. Use two and you're ahead.
This could be great value for some and actually are a net improvement to the offering of the program.

So it's a mixture: some new things and some old things. If you use the things that have monetary value, you'll clearly have an advantage from this. Otherwise, you're worst off.

Personally: when I joined there were very little perks: a dozen of restaurants had a 10% discount for lunch only and a discount on the AP. That's all. Perks right now are much much better. Also, I never purchased a point direct from Disney, I purchased resale and was grandfathered in. So I am not upset about this change, I'm no worst than how I was when I bought.

But had I bought direct points I would be furious! Of course perks are not guaranteed, but DVD uses membership extras as a marketing tool. They told people: buy 150 points direct and you'll have access to perks. People thought that as long as Membership extras existed, they had access to them. Now perks are taken away and new extras are put behind a paywall. And it's likely just the beginning. Look no further than Genie+: it started at $10 per day, it'll probably be $50 after tax this holiday season. Wait until they announce registration instructions for MM. If there is a LL for lounges, why shouldn't there be one for MM registration? If not in 2025, I expect it in 2026.
And If I were a non US resident who had purchased direct points I would be outraged! Not only they took away some perks that used to be free, they're also preventing them to buy the extended membership.

100% on your last point. That's exactly how we feel. In fact, we purchased direct specifically because of the added benefits...which may soon all be paid-only options that we cannot buy. What a bait and switch.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Is that really what DVC is striving to emulate then? Crappiott?

DVC is inferior to Marriott and has been since they introduced resale restrictions. They are clearly striving to be like the worst of the worst in the timeshare industry. Westgate has resale restrictions. Marriott does not.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

They have not yet clarified what. I too am waiting to find out which of my points I will be able to trade.

My guess, and only a guess, it will be limited to direct points or resale points bought before 2012, which matches the trading into the Disney collection.

But, it will be great for me if they allow any points because then I will use my SSR points since those were bought resale buy after 2012, instead of some of my VGF !

Have they announced the points cost for a sorceror’s pass though? Seems to me like using points to buy an AP is going to be a terrible use of points.

 

[PalmettoPath]

Have they announced the points cost for a sorceror’s pass though? Seems to me like using points to buy an AP is going to be a terrible use of points.

The numbers floating around are 95 for new and 80 for renewal. But not officially posted yet (I believe some posters here have heard this from CMs).

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

95 is an absurd cost if you're points are new. That's $1330 just based off Disney's OTUP valuation.

What? Disney’s OTUP are $20. $20 x 95 is $1,900, not $1,330.

 

[Ruttangel]

What? Disney’s OTUP are $20. $20 x 95 is $1,900, not $1,330.

They are using the BOGOF version of OTUP available within this program, pay for 12 points get 24 points. $240+$99 $339/24= $14pp

However I don’t think you can value 95 points in that way though as it should be opportunity cost of what they could realise

Transfer/Renting could get you a net of $17pp after tax so using that it’s a min of $1,615

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Transfer/Renting could get you a net of $17pp after tax so using that it’s a min of $1,615

I wouldn’t be using the after-tax net figure for this, since you pay income tax on the money you use to buy a sorceror’s pass in cash as well. I’d look at gross, which appears to be around $20.

 

[Sandisw]

Have they announced the points cost for a sorceror’s pass though? Seems to me like using points to buy an AP is going to be a terrible use of points.

Definitely lower price point than if one would rent points and it won’t be seen as a option for everyone.

For me, spending points instead of the cash and not having to deal with a rental, which I don’t, will work out, even if it’s getting just over $11/point in trade value if I do the renewal rate, rumored at 80 points…

I already buy Memory Maker for $99 to add to my AP and it was a lot was than the $210 for the 30 day one Disney charges everyone else who doesn’t have an AP, even though having the unlimited features wasn’t needed.

I will still spend $99 for a Memory Maker product but now have access to additional benefits for that same $99 I was already spending.

This is why everyone won’t see the value. It really is very specific to each persons situation and needs.


ETA: Waiting to see how much the ticket discount is still…that will make a different to the value of the program for those deciding.

 

[Bearval]

The numbers floating around are 95 for new and 80 for renewal. But not officially posted yet (I believe some posters here have heard this from CMs).

Well if it is 95 for new this is a bad decision if you are using VB or HH points, it is going to cost more in the MFs then if you paid cash for the pass. OKW doesn't come out much better, just slightly cheaper than the MFs and it will probably be more with this years increase in dues. You will do better just to rent those points out and then pay cash for the passes. I can't see anyone trading in points for passes.

 

[jennypenny]

There are times when point usage isn't just about the perceived value. I had a horrible accident in May and had to cancel two trips, one of which was with points that couldn't be banked again. I would gladly have thrown those points at my AP renewal in August. I also remember a year with 3 kids in college where I definitely had more points than cash. I probably would have used points for our AP renewal then too.

It's nice to have the option.

 

[Sandisw]

Well if it is 95 for new this is a bad decision if you are using VB or HH points, it is going to cost more in the MFs then if you paid cash for the pass. OKW doesn't come out much better, just slightly cheaper than the MFs and it will probably be more with this years increase in dues. You will do better just to rent those points out and then pay cash for the passes. I can't see anyone trading in points for passes.

Here is why I will. I have no interest in getting involved in rentals. My time is worth more to me than the extra.

I have fewer trips in 2025 so I have extra points that can easily be given up.

I also do a few solo trips every year now and book a 1 bedroom for just me…do one of those three trips in a studio and what I save there pays for my AP!

But, I agree that this is going to be a niche offer for those who prefer to turn their points into something they are paying for and save their cash for something else, even if there is an alternative via renting to get more value out of your points.

ETA. I think the way people view this is going to be based on how they view value as well. The value of my points is in their use for vacation.

 

[muppets3d]

While reading through this thread, I had an epiphany— I would absolutely pay $100/yr to have access to the lounges and I would much rather see Disney monetize access for moderate to heavy lounge users (like me) than shut them down. I’d also pay $100/yr to be able to keep just Starview Station (but ideally all 3) open after dark, say until 8pm…

Anyway, I’m not currently planning to opt-in, haven’t ever needed priority at DLR, I might opt in when new MK lounge opens and I have a trip planned there…but I’d rather pay a bit more and get more perks I specifically like than have Disney cut them back to pad the bottom line. If I could pay an extra $500 a year to get a guaranteed MM, I would be all over it.

You don’t need to pay to access the lounge. You only need to pay if you want ”priority” access. We have no idea what priority means though. Does that mean they just hold a few tables empty on the off chance someone with this add-on walks up? Probably that’s all it means.

 

[Sandisw]

You don’t need to pay to access the lounge. You only need to pay if you want ”priority” access. We have no idea what priority means though. Does that mean they just hold a few tables empty on the off chance someone with this add-on walks up? Probably that’s all it means.

The T and Cs say that you get priority on the waitlist not priority entrance.

The benefit allows you to jump those waiting assuming there is a waitlist. The lounge remains FCFS for all.

 

[Ruttangel]

Definitely lower price point than if one would rent points and it won’t be seen as a option for everyone.

For me, spending points instead of the cash and not having to deal with a rental, which I don’t, will work out, even if it’s getting just over $11/point in trade value if I do the renewal rate, rumored at 80 points…

I already buy Memory Maker for $99 to add to my AP and it was a lot was than the $210 for the 30 day one Disney charges everyone else who doesn’t have an AP, even though having the unlimited features wasn’t needed.

I will still spend $99 for a Memory Maker product but now have access to additional benefits for that same $99 I was already spending.

This is why everyone won’t see the value. It really is very specific to each persons situation and needs.


ETA: Waiting to see how much the ticket discount is still…that will make a different to the value of the program for those deciding.

I don’t quite follow, are you saying you’d buy MMB as it includes Memory Maker?
The MMB expires 30 days after activation and if you travel more than once a year you now wouldn’t have it for one of the trips

 

[Brian Noble]

Westgate has resale restrictions. Marriott does not.

Resale Marriott points can be used for all resorts, but only after paying an education a junk fee to Marriott to requalify the points.