Maybe they shouldn't have a 7 mo and 11 mo. booking period.

[Dean]

OK, you have the guarantee of a 1 month priority though I suspect it'll stay a 4 months at least for a number of years. I thought I was missing something, you know how demanding those BW oweners can be. LOL

 

[PamOKW]

Just to echo what Dean said, no one paid a premium for any DVC resort. Someone who buys HHI today is paying a "premium" over someone who bought 5 years ago. All DVC resorts (bought from DVC) have cost exactly the same when purchased on the same day.

The dues difference is also minimal. $.70 over OKW and $.20 over VWL. $.51 over HHI and actually $.14 less than Vero.

 

[Richyams]

Maybe my being so poor is the reason, but I don't call $0.70 per point in dues a "minimal" difference.

On 430 points, that is $300 per year every year. That is actually the lowest the difference has ever been. The difference on 430 points ranges from $400 to $300 each and every year.

I think that is significant. BWV owners pay that and I think any move away from 7-11 towards 10-11 is bad for DVC and its owners.

And I also think that it is a fair statement to say that many BWV owners paid a premium for their points. They never has a $15 per point buy back off as they did at Vero. Would it be fair to allow people who bought Vero because of the discount to have the same or even a one month disadvantage when booking BWV as someone who paid full price?

 

[Richyams]

Pam made an untrue statement:

" All DVC resorts (bought from DVC) have cost exactly the same when purchased on the same day. "



The VB MB program has long been different than the MB program at the rest of the DVC resorts. There were many days that some people bought BWV using the MB buyback that people bought VB using the MB buyback. Those buying BWV paid more(a premium) than those buying at VB.

 

[Dean]

Rich, it's actually a little of both. To get the MB, you're giving up the points associated. You could say the same about the free passes, especially for thost OKW owners that bought right after that incentive ended. I guess I look at any incentive or discount as just that, the MSRP was still the same. Or you could say that VB was worth much more because DVC was willing to give you $15 pp for each and every point, how's that for reversing the thinking. LOL

Still, I prefer to think of it as if you bought the same number of points and didn't use MB, you'd be at the same cost the same day. I'll say again that the dues are because it costs more to run BW, not as any incentive for a prioritiy over the other DVC resorts.

 

[Richyams]

I understand completely that the dues are what they are because of the cost to run the resort.

Somebody wanting to bathe themselves in the BWV atmosphere and willing to pay the difference in cost in dues, isn't paying specifically for the booking advantage, but they certainly deserve it.

SOmeone who bought at OKW because the love staying in the spacious, relaxing Grand Villas, also deserves a booking advantage.

Wether its cost or preference, we all bought at one resort with a limited ability to stay at the others. Material changes to that are wrong, in my ever so humble opinion.

I still think that there is an element of truth in the staement that many BWV owners paid a premium to stay there.

Many people bought VB simply because they fell for the DVC sales line that the booking window doesn't matter combined with the lower upfront cost that allowed them to afford it......those people don't have a right to the same booking advantage as someone whose home resort is BWV.

 

[RobDoc]

PamOKW did NOT make an untrue statement!

The offered price at every DVC resort is always the same on any given day.

The fact that there is an incentive at VB (also at HH) which differs than one at VWL does not change the offered price. The buyer has the option of using the incentive. If he chooses not to use MB, he will pay the same for VB, HH or VWL.

Last fall, the offered price for BWV, OKW, VB and HH on any day in October was exactly the same- as PamOKW stated. The fact that some (not all) buyers chose to utilize the MB (and give up something in return) does not alter the offered price at all.

This may be nothing but semantics, but it is an important distinction when accusing someone of making an "untrue" statement.

 

[Peterd]

I do agree with Rich and the others about keeping it the same, (who would have thunk it).. I was wondering if they brought up the idea of changing it because they were having trouble selling the offsite properties. If they did change it, there would probably be a run on HH or VB.
I own at both Okw and BW, and would be a little ticked if others that chose to buy at the offsite resorts were now given the same window or a little less than the 11 month window, to reserve as home resort owners. I like the guarentee that we could get a GV at both Okw and Bw at the eleven month window, without having to worry about being shut out from owners who own elsewhere.
Some used to complain about not being able to get rooms at another resort, and we would say, "buy where you want to stay". I don't see why that should change.

 

[Dean]

Rich I assume we are saying mostly the same thing but I'm still not sure. Let me check things out here. First there is a guaranteed 1 month priority for any owners home resort. That priority is currently 4 months but could be changed by DVC at any time and we'd have no real right to fuss about it. ANY owner has the right to their priority at their home resort, regardless of what they paid or what their dues are.

As Doc says, it is semantics as to cost vs. discount. Besides Rich, you sure seem to be taking the liberal side of things lately, are you sure you're all right, LOL.

I too hope that the priority remains at four months. I was trying to remember the main initial jist of this thread. I think it was waiving the priority period because there might be mirror image reservations with matching wait lists for the other resort. They say anything is possible and that everyone has a twin somewhere in the world. Lord help us if Rich and I have a twin somewhere, LOL.

 

[PamOKW]

Thanks Doc. I'll let your reply stand as my rebuttal. Rich, any time you want to show a DVC price list with different prices for each resort you just let me know.

I'm not in favor of reducing the booking window either. But the idea that folks paid a "premium" for BWV is not true either. They chose BWV and paid for it. They pay slightly higher dues to cover the extra amenities at BWV. They are entitled to the same guarantees regarding reservations that every other DVC member receives, no more and no less. There are no special privileges associated with owning at BWV beyond being guaranteed a Home Resort privilege at that resort, which is the same guarantee every other resort owners is granted.

$.70 x 400 or 1,000 or whatever certainly does start to add up. But, it is still $.70 per point -- not an amount that comes with any additional DVC privileges beyond paying for the valet and the slide pool and the other hotel costs.

 

[LindaDVC]

The problem is people are booking reservations they do not want incase their true requests can not be granted!

I am not sure how that problem can be fixed! The only Idea I can think of is a change of plan penalty and I DO NOT WANT THAT!

Lindainkbounc

 

[Dean]

It has long been a recommendation on this board to make a home resort reservation then try for the desired location when the 7 month window opened up. It's also been stated many times to make the reservation you can get then wait list what you would really prefer. I do wonder if they review wait lists for just the problem in question here, I don't know if they do or not.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

The 11 vs 7 month booking advantage really does make sense. Those folks at HH for which you would presume would mostly prefer summer months, would not be able to book the resort of thier choice. 4 months gives one some leeway in making vacation decisions. And at 7 months, we are hearing fo people getting reservations at alternative resorts, which is a major part of the package they purchased.... flexibility. Peak times, stick with your home resort (Christmas and Spring break, off peak you should be able to get reservations at alternative resorts with some potential dissapointment.

Also, didn't the fact that some resorts sell out help moderate unusually high demand for a popular resort?

I bought into the system knowing how it worked, and choosing my home resort to reflect peak vacation periods. I can always add on for 11 month windows at alternative resorts provided they are not sold out. And maybe having a collection of points from several resorts would be nice. Bank one resorts points for this year and use the others, and vice versa for next year. Nice to have options, that was a big seller for me.

 

[ILuvDVC]

Has anyone considered that they might change the window from 11/7 to 11/6 or 11/5??? It's possible, isn't it?

I like the booking window just the way it, but, when they first came out with Vero Beach...I started getting nervous. Because...I couldn't see myself going to Vero Beach Every year, but I knew people were choosing Vero Beach as their home resort, because Vero Beach still had those free passes (I, myself, almost bought there, just for the free passes, but decided there is no way I would go there every year!).

 

[bicker]

I don't think so. I think that it is limited to varying between 11/7 and 11/10. Does someone know for sure?

 

[Joeblack]

I do believe that BWV owners paid a premium (although not reflected in Disney's asking price) for their membership for two reasons. First, they are getting smaller accomodations and paying higher dues than at OKW for the sake of location and arguably themeing.

Secondly, market (resale) prices at BWV have most of the time been higher than at OKW. It would have been a bad move from Disney (that would have probably outraged other resort owners) to make a price differentiation between the different resorts, but the market has usually born a higher price for BWV because supply/demand determines it to be that way. (By the way, I belive that the market is the only force that can determine the TRUE price of something. Not Disney nor any other artificial force).

I would say it is a safe bet to say that it will be easier to sell 150 points at BWV than 150 points at OKW for, say...$68/pt.

Having said all that, I still maintain my position that the only reason to buy in a particular resort is the 7/11 window, and doing away with it would just make no sense.

 

[bicker]

Originally posted by Joeblack
I do believe that BWV owners paid a premium (although not reflected in Disney's asking price) for their membership for two reasons. First, they are getting smaller accomodations and paying higher dues than at OKW for the sake of location and arguably themeing.

While I agree that BWV owners paid a premium, I'm confused by this rationale. The fact is that ANYONE staying in a BWV room is getting smaller accommodations. Furthermore, you don't pay a premium to get something *less* -- you pay a premium to get something *more* so the smaller room isn't a reason for the premium.

 

[Joeblack]

Bicker. Maybe Iam not explaining myself correctly, but, if you have a 50ml olive oil bottle and a 100 ml peanut oil bottle and both cost $3, then you are paying a premium for the olive oil.

If a 1-br at OKW is larger and costs less points to stay at than a smaller 1-br at BWV, then you are definitely paying a premium to stay at the BWC room, aren't you? AndI believe you are correct that you should get "something more" whhen you pay a premium. In this case, you are getting a better location and arguably, a better themeing.

In Real Estate, the most determining point is location, and BWV owners are paying a prime throug sacrificing room space, paying more points and higher maintenance dues just for the sake of staying at a privileged location, although Disney's "official price" is the same.

In other words, points/square feet are best maximized by OKW owners. BWV owners get a better location but don't get the same point/sqft ratio OKW owners do, and therefore, IMHO are paying a premium for the location.

 

[bicker]

Originally posted by Joeblack
Bicker. Maybe Iam not explaining myself correctly, but, if you have a 50ml olive oil bottle and a 100 ml peanut oil bottle and both cost $3, then you are paying a premium for the olive oil.

I'm having difficultly understanding what point you're trying to make given the context of this thread: "Maybe they shouldn't have a 7 mo and 11 mo. booking period." If they got rid of the 11/7 system, and had all DVC members just book wherever they wanted, there would be no difference between the rooms that OKW owners get vs. the rooms that BWV owners get, since they'd be getting the same rooms, eh?

In other words, points/square feet are best maximized by OKW owners. BWV owners get a better location but don't get the same point/sqft ratio OKW owners do, and therefore, IMHO are paying a premium for the location.

And I see those things as balancing out: BWV has better location/theming; OKW has better square footage. So back to the point of this thread: BWV owners are paying more, so what are they getting for THAT premium: It isn't better location/theming -- they're getting better location/theming "because" they're getting less square footage. Rahter, it is the 11/7 program that justifies the added cost BWV owners incur, IMHO.

 

[Dean]

And even if someone paid a premium for BW, the only thing they're entitled to is what's offered in the legal documentation, no more and no less. That means X number of points and the minimum of 1 month of home resort priority, currently a 4 month priority window. A members own personal reasoning and expectations above the legal documentation is just that and has no direct bearing on this discussion. That's true for any DVC owner at any resort, not just BW.

Actually, I would assume that HH and VB owners are at a signigicant disadvantage overall when it comes to flexibility for varied vacations. HH member are likely trying to get into their home resort in summer and/or compete with other members for other resorts. VB is not generally difficult to get but competing for other resorts at the 7 month window must be equally frustrating. The WDW resorts have a certain advantage because you can make home resort plans then change to another resort when the 7 month window opens up thus giving you a guaranteed trip with the exact resort the only question. Of course the VB and HH owners can do the same but that doesn't help them for WDW. Still I suspect those that plan can get something at the 7 month window, the exceptions will likely be BW at certain times of the year and HH for summer.