Max Occupancy in DVC Resorts

[jarestel]

But please do not insult those of us who do abide by them, by saying we don't exist.

I follow rules myself, Sammie. However in my town, if I were to drive at or below the speed limit I'd have been run over from behind a couple of dozen times by now, so it's more or less a defense mechanism to "go with the flow". But I'm trying! Didn't mean to insult anyone, just got carried away making an abstract point.

 

[Dean]

I think guides are working well within the directions management has been giving them concerning room capacity. Discounting guides doesn't address the issue.

Neither the guides nor MS has the authority or ability to make rules or contracts, period. And I'd be very surprised if anyone in authority specifically told them it was OK to tell members that breaking the written rules was OK. No one is arguing that MS currently doesn't enforce the rules but that's a far cry from an "official" blessing.

And I'd agree with Sammie above, I think a large portion of people try to follow all the rules they are aware of, I certainly do to the best of my ability. However, making a mistake does not change the appropriateness of following the rules, no matter how many break it. If you didn't like the "everyone's doing it" analogy, maybe you'd like to compare it to legalizing pot. You can't enforce it so just legalize it. You must attribute the cruise analogy to someone else, it wasn't me.

 

[jarestel]

And I'd agree with Sammie above, I think a large portion of people try to follow all the rules they are aware of, I certainly do to the best of my ability. However, making a mistake does not change the appropriateness of following the rules, no matter how many break it. If you didn't like the "everyone's doing it" analogy, maybe you'd like to compare it to legalizing pot. You can't enforce it so just legalize it. You must attribute the cruise analogy to someone else, it wasn't me.

Dean, Exactly! You have hit the nail right on the head, put your finger on the crux of the matter, and crystalized my thoughts exactly. I have no problem ( not that anyone cares whether I have a problem or not, LOL! ) with folks stating that occupancy limits should be enforced because... ( list REASONS here ). And I DON'T condone or advocate sneaking extra people into rooms or doing anything underhanded in order to get one's own way. But the reason the "rule-follower" argument doesn't wash with me is because if I list all of my guests on the ressie and MS accepts it and books me into a room, then as far as I am concerned, I'm following the rules. And if they one day say, "No, you can't do that anymore", that will be fine and I promise I won't appear here with alligator tears flowing down my face railing about the injustice of it all. I'm just asking the rule followers to show me the same courtesy.

 

[Dean]

Dean, Exactly! You have hit the nail right on the head, put your finger on the crux of the matter, and crystalized my thoughts exactly. I have no problem ( not that anyone cares whether I have a problem or not, LOL! ) with folks stating that occupancy limits should be enforced because... ( list REASONS here ). And I DON'T condone or advocate sneaking extra people into rooms or doing anything underhanded in order to get one's own way. But the reason the "rule-follower" argument doesn't wash with me is because if I list all of my guests on the ressie and MS accepts it and books me into a room, then as far as I am concerned, I'm following the rules. And if they one day say, "No, you can't do that anymore", that will be fine and I promise I won't appear here with alligator tears flowing down my face railing about the injustice of it all. I'm just asking the rule followers to show me the same courtesy.

Which is why I've routinely said that at the present time, any beef is with DVC and MS; assuming reasonable usage. The argument doesn't go away, just the object of it changes.

 

[DisneyDVClover]

We have never had a problem in a 1 BDRM or a Studio we have 2 adults and 3 children the oldest is 8 the youngest is 2 and even for our next trip when he is 3 they were fine with it.

 

[pplasky]

We have never had a problem in a 1 BDRM or a Studio we have 2 adults and 3 children the oldest is 8 the youngest is 2 and even for our next trip when he is 3 they were fine with it.

Just want to add that we were unable to put 5 on a ressie in a studio last time. We were able to put 5 in a 1BR. Not sure why we hit a snag, but it can happen.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

...If you didn't like the "everyone's doing it" analogy, maybe you'd like to compare it to legalizing pot. You can't enforce it so just legalize it.

I can't say that I agree that having 5 in a one bedroom is analogous to using illegal drugs, but that's just me.

You must attribute the cruise analogy to someone else, it wasn't me.

Oops, I don't mean to incorrectly assign an analogy, I must have missunderstood the reference to it being "no different than the cruise industry." Seems to me 5 in a 1 bedroom DVC land resort is very different than the cruise industry.

....Not directed at you but I get amused at those who feel DVC must create something that will work for a family of five or six. To me, it's no different than the cruise industry.

(sigh......)

Seems to me that I hire DVC management and Board to make appropriate determinations for the best interest of our members. I'm glad they have decided 5 in a one bedroom is OK. Enjoy your vacations. :thewave:

 

[Dean]

Oops, I don't mean to incorrectly assign an analogy, I must have missunderstood the reference to it being "no different than the cruise industry." Seems to me 5 in a 1 bedroom DVC land resort is very different than the cruise industry.

I don't recall saying it as it's not really the way I think of it. If I recall, others were discussing the cruise issue at the time. Sorry you're having trouble with the analogies, do you want me to explain them further.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

I don't recall saying it as it's not really the way I think of it. If I recall, others were discussing the cruise issue at the time.

Well, its a direct quote of your statements earlier in this thread. If you'll check the discussion surrounding your cruise statement, you'll see that no body brought up the cruise issue except yourself (at least that I noticed). Apparently, given this quote, your statement:

You must attribute the cruise analogy to someone else, it wasn't me.

was made in error. If I read the statement correctly, you did write "To me, it's no different than the cruise industry." My opinion is that such a statement is flawed, and that 5 in a one bedroom at a land based DVC resort is very, very different than travel accomodations/food services/life jacket and boat requirements on a cruise ship.

Sorry you're having trouble with the analogies, do you want me to explain them further.

Thanks for the offer, but I think that many attempted analogies are so far fetched and non-applicable I do not think further explination would be of benefit. What would be of even greater help is if analogies were used that are even partially applicable to the discussion at hand. As previously stated, there's no way a moving cruise ship occupancy with the amenities, food and sea worthy requirements can compare to a DVC land based room for me, those each have very different requirements. And I cannot really see how 5 in a one bedroom is analogous to using illegal drugs, but then I don't have any experience in that area to draw from. Maybe the the problem is that the one position may not be very defendable beyond the, "....cannot break rules...no flexibility allowed... " mantra.

Regardless, 5 in a one bedroom personally affects our current use of vacation accomodations at our children's current ages. I am bias on this issue and therefore post about it. I do find it very puzzling as to why other posters who say they do not have strong views, at the same time have numerous and multiple posts on the issue. Me thinks somone is attempting to bluff others with proported statements of indifference. Thank goodness MS is now applying some reasonableness to the occupacy issue. We find the one bedroom accomodations very nice for our family, and would not use the second bedroom for our kids at thier current ages. It would be locked off and go totally unused if we got a two bedroom villa at this point. Our children still need supervision, especially in strange environments with balconeys right outside the rooms. It really doesn't make sense for us to rent the two bedroom and then never use the second bedroom.
:thewave:
Best wishes for choosing the accomodations that best fit your familes needs in cooperation with MS.

 

[pplasky]

Regardless, 5 in a one bedroom personally affects our current use of vacation accomodations at our children's current ages. I am bias on this issue and therefore post about it. I do find it very puzzling as to why other posters who say they do not have strong views, at the same time have numerous and multiple posts on the issue. Me thinks somone is attempting to bluff others with proported statements of indifference. Thank goodness MS is now applying some reasonableness to the occupacy issue. We find the one bedroom accomodations very nice for our family, and would not use the second bedroom for our kids at thier current ages. It would be locked off and go totally unused if we got a two bedroom villa at this point. Our children still need supervision, especially in strange environments with balconeys right outside the rooms. It really doesn't make sense for us to rent the two bedroom and then never use the second bedroom.
:thewave:
Best wishes for choosing the accomodations that best fit your familes needs in cooperation with MS.

Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MiaSRN62]

I've followed this thread, but didn't participate until now. I guess I've been a little intimated into thinking I'm a "criminal" or something. But this November, our family of 5 stayed in a 1 bedroom at OKW. I don't see how this particularily compares to some of the analogies offered here either. We were on a waitlist for 2 months for a 2 bedroom but none ever came through. MS was well-aware we were a family of 5 and never said a thing either when making the reservation or at check-in. Honestly, we would have preferred the extra beds (my son slept on an aerobed), but the 1 bedroom was nowhere near as bad as I thought it might be. It was very doable imho. We actually felt like we had a huge amount of space. We actually felt way more cramped when staying in one room (with trundle) at Riverside back in '98. This was considered "legal" ( ) I guess for our family of 5.
The OKW 1 bedroom worked well for our family and honestly, the only time I ever felt like I was possibly doing anything wrong is here on these boards. I've decided to not let some of the opinions of others get to me. It's nice that we can all discuss this rationally for the most part. If the situation arose again where we couldn't secure a 2 bedroom, I'd have no problem booking another 1 bedroom for our family. If MS or the resort itself decided to change their thinking on this matter, then that would be fine too. But I hardly feel like I'm doing anything illegal I agree with other posters who say it comes down to what fits an individual family's needs.

 

[Doctor P]

The OKW 1 bedroom worked well for our family and honestly, the only time I ever felt like I was possibly doing anything wrong is here on these boards. I've decided to not let some of the opinions of others get to me.

That's a nice way to rationalize things, and I am not saying that I wouldn't have done the same thing in your circumstance. However, I find it incredulous that you didn't have any feeling that you were possibly doing anything wrong when you blatantly were violating the terms of your contract, enforced or not. Can't get into your head, but I know that I'm aware when I violate the speed limit and aware that I am "possibly doing something wrong" (your words) even if the policy is not being enforced at a given point in time. That said, I AM glad your trip worked out, and I'm glad you were able to be accomodated.

 

[DebbieB]

I don't get the speed limit analogy. I doubt a policeman is going to tell you "it's OK to go over the speed limit, you have my permission". In this case, DVC is managing the resorts and they are saying it's OK over and over again. They are the ones responsible for managing the contract and it's their decision to make accomodations to the rules.

 

[idratherbeinwdw]

If you didn't like the "everyone's doing it" analogy, maybe you'd like to compare it to legalizing pot. You can't enforce it so just legalize it.

Fine with me. Pot doesn't kill, isn't addictive, and many many fine upstanding citizens indulge without causing any harmful effects to society It should be legal, but that's another thread for another board I suppose.

 

[Doctor P]

Actually, as a management entity, DVC MS has no authority to waive contract provisions. I am just pointing out a fact, and not saying it should be challenged. Just responding to several statements that MS itself has more authority than they truly do.

 

[MiaSRN62]

That's a nice way to rationalize things

Well, I don't believe I am rationalizing anything in my statement. Perhaps you could insinuate I am rationalizing if we snuck the 5th person into the 1 bedroom (ie kept that information from MS and the resort). But this was not the case.
I specifically pointed out to MS that we would require a 2 bedroom because we had 5 people. I was secretly hoping this would increase my chances of getting a 2 bedroom. But the response from MS, was "it won't be a problem" in reference to our 1 bedroom ressie for our family of 5. If it's such a major violation, why did MS let me proceed with the reservation ? Why didn't they say, "sorry, you'll need either 2 studios or a 2 bedroom" and put me strictly on a waitlist ?
In regards to violating a speed limit ???? That endangers lives. How can this be compared to our staying in a 1 bedroom ???? Sorry, I'm just not seeing eye-to-eye on several of the analogies here on this thread.

 

[Doctor P]

Unless directed by DVD (not the same as DVC or MS) to do otherwise, MS has absolutely no incentive to enforce the occupancy limits. They are responsible for management and operating the resorts and providing customer service. Why would they enforce limits on room occupancy with those responsibilities? They can keep more people happy by not enforcing the limits, and unless they are told to do otherwise will not do so. On the other hand, if it could ever be proven that DVD gave the guides instructions or suggested that they might make the occupancy claims or promises that many say have been made, DVD could be in serious trouble and have some liability, IMHO.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

On the other hand, if it could ever be proven that DVD gave the guides instructions or suggested that they might make the occupancy claims or promises that many say have been made, DVD could be in serious trouble and have some liability, IMHO.

Dean & Doctor P, I disagree. There's no way DVD could be in serious trouble or have some liability if they are providing this guidance to MS and guides, your really stretching attempting to make points like these. Contracts all over the place have modifications in actual practice.

It's a very reasonable guideline, why are you so up in arms about it? Is the point just to aurgue? Just because your family doesn't need this option for your vacations? Come on.....

 

[Doctor P]

Captain Midnight,

With due respect, I don't think you understand real estate law and the specific nature of written provisions in timeshare contracts and declarations. The items we are talking about are legally recorded tenets of the binding terms of the existence of the resorts. Yes, contracts can be changed, but things are a little different when you are talking about real estate contracts and those involving condominium declarations that are legally recorded binding covenants on one's deed. Most contracts I suspect you are referring to are neither real estate, timeshare, or recorded covenants/POS documents. The only analogue outside real estate that I can quickly think of would be mutual funds or other securities for which a Public Offering Statement is required. If a firm was knowingly violating the terms of a securities' POS, you can bet the SEC would be interested. Now, don't misunderstand, I'm not advocating any challenge or change, merely pointing out that this is serious stuff (much more serious than people want to believe).

 

[DisneyDVClover]

Actually Dean your quote about pot is funny as we are on the verge of legalizing it in Canada. Another thing I find funny is how people ridicule one another here be is subtly or otherwise I mean after all this is a form of bullying which we all know we don't like to have happen to our children and don't want our children to partae in yet it is fine for adults to do this.Honestly until DVD and DVC start to enforce the occupancy rules or cange it a party of 5 in a 1 bedroom will be fine and will work for everyone who chooses to use it and even for that family that doesn't it is still available to them. I also understand the speeding analogy we have a posted limit of 100KPH on our highways mind you our accepted limit is 120KPH the police will not pull you over for anything from 100-120 but over that and you will get a ticket if caught it is an accepted bend in the rules on the road as is the 5 in a 1 bedroom at DVC resorts why can't people accept that they allow it and until they enforce it it will remain that way.