Mass Shooting at Orlando Club

[5DisneyNuts]

Making sure mentally ill people don't get guns is not going to solve the problem. You are fooling yourself if you think differently. Canada, for one, has a huge mental health problem yet we don't have a mass shooting every day (another one has been reported in NM today or AZ, I can't remember). It's not a mental health problem, it's a gun problem, plain and simple

But, but, the constitution says I can have a gun. Fine, go get a musket and shut up.

There is nothing SIMPLE about this issue - there are MANY components that make up the problem AND solutions.

Reading this thread is a very strong indicator as to why our country is where it is today. I just don't understand how so much hate is contained within a human body...

Discussions showing both sides of an issue are the first step to finding a solution.

 

[Dan Murphy]

In Australia we had a change to our gun laws after a mass shooting in 1996. We haven't had a mass shooting since. It has significantly lowered gun violence.

However, I am fully aware that our countries are different. Firstly, we didn't have a 'right to bear arms' in our constitution. Secondly, we don't have land borders across which guns can be smuggled. It is much harder to bring illegal guns into the country.

Has it removed gun violence? No, of course not. But it has reduced it. Most homeowners don't have a gun, so we have very few accidental shootings at home. We have much less 'suicide by cop' incidents because people don't have guns. Yes, knives can kill and can cause damage, but not as much. Our 'bad guys' do have guns, but most of them use them on each other. It's very rare that they use them (fire them) on totally 'innocent' people.

I don't think it would work the same way in the US though. Gun ownership is too entrenched in your country's psyche (from an outside perspective anyway).

Your country has becone a model for the world community, Michelle. Your Port Arthur shook your country enough to make real change. And the results are there to be seen.

The bottom line is: we obviously don't care.

Very true, Christine, very true.

 

[Planogirl]

Are semi-automatic weapons really necessary? He killed a lot of people very quickly and that is only a small part of what is so disturbing. However if at least trying to ban the semi-automatics potentially saves one life I'm all in favor.

 

[ashley0139]

No ones happy about this. Crazy loonies are going to find a way to carry out there evil plans. Guns or no guns

I never said anyone was happy about this. I said they were okay with it happening, which is exactly what they are, when this keeps happening but nothing changes. 50 people at a night club, 20 SIX YEAR OLDS in a SCHOOL. There's a reason we have far more gun violence than the rest of the world.

 

[desamnik]

If guns weren't available, "they" would use something else. Lets see...hmmm maybe a bomb made from a pressure cooker? That might take out a few. Or let's see maybe we could use their airplanes as missiles. Or maybe they have something new in the works. Guns aren't the problem, they are the weapon. We don't blame the car when a drunk driver gets behind the wheel.

 

[minneylovesmicky]

I could have written this myself.

I just wanted to add that the other issue with introducing similar bans on guns in the States is the cost of a buy-back scheme, which was one of the things that made Australia's ban so successful, would be just astronomical.

I think in Australia there was also a real shift in attitude towards guns and gun ownership after the Port Arthur massacre and a mass realisation that the laws needed to change to prevent this happening again. Yes, there was some backlash (the Prime Minister, John Howard - who was right wing by the way - wore a bullet proof vest when he made the announcement) but it was largely supported by the general public. Now I don't know of anyone who wishes we had more lax gun control.

However, I think for it to work in the USA that realisation had to come a long time ago. The guns and the gun ownership mentality are too widespread now. Maybe if the laws had changed after Columbine things might have been different? Who knows. But I think it is too late for Australia's system to work for you.

I honestly thought after the Sandy Hook shooting, an a ban would have come in then. There was such outrage at the shooting of innocent little kids. That would have been the time.

This mornings shooting is so sad. So many innocent people just out for a fun night, who will never go home, our hearts break for you all.

 

[wvjules]

So because another method could be used let's not look at our gun laws and see if something can be changed?

 

[mnrose]

You're proposing something that has been ruled unconstitutional.

You'll need to propose something that doesn't violate our constitutional rights if you are sincerely looking for solutions.

Got any ideas? Or is it perfectly fine the way things are with gun ownership? How about a law that precludes people like this whack job from getting a gun? (Those on a terrorist watch list?). Oh wait, that law was blocked last time it came up (just after San Bernadino).

 

[tink20]

We just got back from a week long trip to WDW, yesterday. I've been watching the news and reading posts on social media and I am so heartbroken, again. I feel so helpless

 

[Dan Murphy]

I wonder how may lives were saved by the gun ban in Chicago yesterday?
Oh wait...
Yeah, that's the ticket! Lets ban guns! That will surely fix this problem...

Oh, goofy dd, how we wish! We can only dream of a gun ban here in CHicago, can only dream.

So far, in Chicago last week, we have had 10 murders, 9 with guns, 90%. So far in June, 24 killed, 22 with guns, 91%. For this year, 2016, up through last week, 284 murders, 253 with guns, 89%. If there were no guns in Chicago for the year, I think we would have more than the 31 difference shown above. I also know that we would have no where near 284. 1,421 were also shot and wounded, so many with life altering consequences for themselves and their loved ones. Such a waste.

With gun violence here, one looks at comparatives. Last year over Memorial Day weekend, we had 12 killed, 44 wounded with guns. This year, we had 6 killed, half of last year, and 63 wounded, a 43% increase. So, are we doing better, 50% fewer deaths, or worse, a 43% increase in wounded.

We are sadly quite aware of gun violence here in Chicago.

 

[longboard55]

I honestly thought after the Sandy Hook shooting, an a ban would have come in then. There was such outrage at the shooting of innocent little kids. That would have been the time.

This mornings shooting is so sad. So many innocent people just out for a fun night, who will never go home, our hearts break for you all.

No one is asking for a ban. After 911 we made massive changes in our national security. All the Sandy Hook parents wanted was limits on the size of magazines, a very small request for such a horrible tragedy. It was rejected by you know who. Now keep in mind a large capacity magazine has no use at all for anyone other than a mass killer, they are not used for hunting or home protection or even target shooting.

 

[JaxDad]

I'm not Latin, but I'm particularly saddened by all the Latin names I have seen among the victims. I spent a lot of time in Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Panama, and Honduras. My experience is that Latins are generally such a fun-loving people. And I always felt welcomed in those countries. I know it was a Latin-themed night at the club last night, so I picture the victims excited about a fun night on the town. And now this... And their poor friends and family...

We had a special service at our church this evening for this terrible tragedy. I wish I could personally lift up all those directly affected. Hopefully, they will find some peace. I just don't know...

 

[LiveYourLife]

Some of you mentioned the Mom that was on the news who was desperate and frantic to find her son. I just saw an update:

From Stewart Moore, WESH Reporter: "I just spoke to this mom. She says she has not heard back any information about her son, but she still has hope. She says his boyfriend has passed away and she is a realist. But as a mother has to have hope."

 

[thedonduck]

I'm not Latin, but I'm particularly saddened by all the Latin names I have seen among the victims. I spent a lot of time in Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Panama, and Honduras. My experience is that Latins are generally such a fun-loving people. And I always felt welcomed in those countries. I know it was a Latin-themed night at the club last night, so I picture the victims excited about a fun night on the town. And now this... And their poor friends and family...

We had a special service at our church this evening for this terrible tragedy. I wish I could personally lift up all those directly affected. Hopefully, they will find some peace. I just don't know...

It was Hispanic Night at the club.

 

[mom2rtk]

Some of you mentioned the Mom that was on the news who was desperate and frantic to find her son. I just saw an update:

From Stewart Moore, WESH Reporter: "I just spoke to this mom. She says she has not heard back any information about her son, but she still has hope. She says his boyfriend has passed away and she is a realist. But as a mother has to have hope."

That is heartbreaking.

 

[thedonduck]

Some of you mentioned the Mom that was on the news who was desperate and frantic to find her son. I just saw an update:

From Stewart Moore, WESH Reporter: "I just spoke to this mom. She says she has not heard back any information about her son, but she still has hope. She says his boyfriend has passed away and she is a realist. But as a mother has to have hope."

I have been watching the reports hoping this mom has a happy outcome. I just can't imagine living through this on live tv like she has had to do.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Now you are getting into privacy rights issues. Want to hear a shocker. My wife works as a nurse in a hospital. If her patient is declared mentally unstable do to mental health issues not only is she not allowed to inform anybody, neither is the hospital. No ATF, no homeland security, no fbi not even local police. The only way the govt knows if you're mentally unstable is if you say so on your application.

Yep, and that means crazies can obtain gun permits

 

[JoeA]

So here is my rant for the day:

I read through just a few pages and it appears every one is jumping on "gun violence". Has anyone actually said this is an Islamic terrorism issue?

It's not a "gay" issue. It's radical Islamic terrorism. They hate gays but got news for you - they hate us all - ALL OF US, equally. They hate us.

And I'm frankly appalled that people are using Sandy Hook and "mental health" in this thread. It's not a mental health issue. Radical Islamic folks hate us! Hate us! HATE US!

We talk about Canada and Australia and their gun laws but please correct if I'm wrong but I don't believe I've ever seen a Radical Muslim talk about the "Canadian Devil" or the "do away with the Australian way of life".

I think you can throw in a good causation v correlation argument here.

How about this for gun control: no Muslim can buy a gun? And if you've ever seen a shrink then you can't buy a gun (So to make this happen we pretty much need to forget about HIPPA Compliance. Yeah, that's not going to open a box owned by Pandora). It's really not simple.

I really just processed this conversation. My daughters best friend is a gay man. He was over this morning and he and I had talked at length and not once did it become a "gay issue". He related to this in a different way than I due to the connection (if that makes sense), but we talked in terms of human tragedy and suffering. It just breaks my heart to see this happen.

We can have all the gun control in the world but we're really only addressing the symptom and not the disease and are being intellectually dishonest to say otherwise.

Rant off.

My prayers are with all those touched by this horrible event; those who lost their life, those injured, and the families and loved ones left to try and live with the aftermath.

 

[minnie56]

DD just found out a friend of a friend she had met a few times was killed.
My DD said everyone will talk about it for the coming weeks, and then..it will fade ....
Until next time and there will be a next time.
There always is.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

You're proposing something that has been ruled unconstitutional.

You'll need to propose something that doesn't violate our constitutional rights if you are sincerely looking for solutions.

Or we can amend the amendment to the constitution. As we all learned in elementary school, it was intentionally developed to be amended, and so that's what I am working towards. It may well not happen, and we may even need to break up the nation into one for those who care and one for those who do not, but that's the path forward that I see and what I recently left my primary career to help advance. And of course we will likely have a realignment in the Supreme Court's balance in six months that will almost certainly change what many see as vast judicial overreach in D.C. vs. Heller...At which point, since you are clearly such a strict constitutionalist, I know you'll fall into line when we come for your guns.