Mass Shooting at Orlando Club

[LiveYourLife]

That's awesome news! {{hugs}}

<3 @robinb

 

[michellekcm]

Who knows. I guess the only thing we can look at is data from other countries who have bans on guns. Do they have the same number of mass killings countries with legalized guns? If they do, then I guess banning them would not help. If they don't have the same statistics and their's our lower, then I we could say that banning them does work. But honestly, I don't know the data.

In Australia we had a change to our gun laws after a mass shooting in 1996. We haven't had a mass shooting since. It has significantly lowered gun violence.

However, I am fully aware that our countries are different. Firstly, we didn't have a 'right to bear arms' in our constitution. Secondly, we don't have land borders across which guns can be smuggled. It is much harder to bring illegal guns into the country.

Has it removed gun violence? No, of course not. But it has reduced it. Most homeowners don't have a gun, so we have very few accidental shootings at home. We have much less 'suicide by cop' incidents because people don't have guns. Yes, knives can kill and can cause damage, but not as much. Our 'bad guys' do have guns, but most of them use them on each other. It's very rare that they use them (fire them) on totally 'innocent' people.

I don't think it would work the same way in the US though. Gun ownership is too entrenched in your country's psyche (from an outside perspective anyway).

 

[AdamEfimoff]

I am very saddened by this attack. And hope everyone on the team is safe and everyone on this board.

 

[LiveYourLife]

Luis S. Vielma, 22

May you rest in peace and prayers to your loved ones.

 

[mummabear]

It's just awful. My heart goes out to all of those effected.

 

[pat fan]

I have waited all day to respond because I just could not find words. I cannot fathom the kind of hatred that sends a person into a room to murder as many people as possible simply because they may seem different than him. I have no idea how to change the seemingly easy access to guns and to change how many people view them, but I do know that we need to do something. If we sit back and just shake our heads and say that we can do nothing, we have condoned these acts, and after Sandy Hook, I believe that we have done so aleady.

My heart breaks for Orlando, the LGBT community, and the families of those lost and hurt. No one should live in fear, but now it is so.

I think all Americans are in mourning today for our citizens, because that is who was targeted. I wish the gun debate would not be involved in this discussion because this is not some random citizen on a spree because of a mental health issue or even a crime fueled by hatred like we've experienced before (the south during segregation etc..). This is a terrorist act, and it's a different beast and it's horrendous.

 

[kimblebee]

In Australia we had a change to our gun laws after a mass shooting in 1996. We haven't had a mass shooting since. It has significantly lowered gun violence.

However, I am fully aware that our countries are different. Firstly, we didn't have a 'right to bear arms' in our constitution. Secondly, we don't have land borders across which guns can be smuggled. It is much harder to bring illegal guns into the country.

Has it removed gun violence? No, of course not. But it has reduced it. Most homeowners don't have a gun, so we have very few accidental shootings at home. We have much less 'suicide by cop' incidents because people don't have guns. Yes, knives can kill and can cause damage, but not as much. Our 'bad guys' do have guns, but most of them use them on each other. It's very rare that they use them (fire them) on totally 'innocent' people.

I don't think it would work the same way in the US though. Gun ownership is too entrenched in your country's psyche (from an outside perspective anyway).

I'm Canadian so I feel like we would share a lot of the same thoughts when it comes to guns. It's so hard for us to comprehend this because it's just not a part of our daily lives. It's hard for me not to say a lot of things but I know today's not the day.

 

[andiraye]

This is an honest question. Do you believe that people like this murderer would be unable to obtain guns if they were illegal? Personally, I feel that someone so evil as to kill would either get guns illegally or find other ways to carry out his plans. But I'm truly curious as to how others see this playing out if guns were banned.

Hi there. I know I'm jumping into a conversation that is moving quickly at a point that is several hours old.

I think this is a very important question, as it gets at the heart of the disconnect between the people who want to protect gun rights and the people who want more regulation.

The thing for me is, I agree that a law abiding citizen is not going to try to murder 50 people. Of course.

But if guns were more heavily regulated, I think there would be fewer of them in circulation generally, which would make them harder for ill intentioned people to get their hands on. I know there would still be a black market, but supply, particularly the supply of legally available firearms hat can be modified to be more dangerous, and movement would be restricted.

One piece of the gun policy pie that is very important and missing from this discussion (at least to the point I read) is that many, many gun deaths in the US are accidental - people improperly storing or using legal guns. As a first step, more extensive training would be an improvement.

But I also believe this is not a single solution problem. Gun violence in the US is a mutli-faceted problem requiring a multi-faceted solution. Tighter gun regulation, better firearm training, better and more readily available mental health services, diplomacy, foreign aid and military tactics, all working together over a long term period, are required. It's complex and subtle and frankly requires people smarter and more knowledgeable than me.

The thing that truly scares me is that our political and media system has developed to a place where everyone is just shouting at each other, rather than listening to each other in order to come up with the subtle, complex policy solutions that highly complex problems require. We have to find a way to start listening to each other and working together again. The problems facing our country and our world aren't binary - the answers aren't either/or.

And the truly scary part of it is that while all of us are shouting at each other over what the single problem is or is not, nothing is changing and these terrible events are becoming all the more frequent.

 

[Nancyg56]

I think all Americans are in mourning today for our citizens, because that is who was targeted. I wish the gun debate would not be involved in this discussion because this is not some random citizen on a spree because of a mental health issue or even a crime fueled by hatred like we've experienced before (the south during segregation etc..). This is a terrorist act, and it's a different beast and it's horrendous.

I agree that Americans mourn with the victims and their families, and we mourn for ourselves as well. WE know that this can happen anywhere, anytime, and to those who are our own families and friends. But I do not think we can remove the gun discussion though. As long as these weapons are the weapons of choice the discussion will need to happen.

 

[longboard55]

Hawaii is the safest state in the country, (by far) for firearm deaths and violence. Of course in Hawaii you just can not jump over state lines and break the rules. Here are their rules. They strike me as extremely reasonable for law abiding citizens.

Acquiring any firearm within the State requires a permit from your county chief of police. You must be 21 years old and a U.S. citizen. You must be fingerprinted and photographed for a criminal background check and affirm by affidavit your mental health and lack of drug or alcohol addiction or criminal background. You authorize release of your medical history and give the name and address of your doctor (if any). You are not required to find a doctor or provide a medical clearance. Your doctor is required to release any mental health information pertinent to your acquiring firearms. A drunk driving record, history of serious psychiatric diagnosis, or any treatment for alcohol or drug abuse will result in denial of your permit. A letter from a physician will be required to establish that you are “no longer adversely affected”.

 

[CPanther95]

But I do not think we can remove the gun discussion though. As long as these weapons are the weapons of choice the discussion will need to happen.

That would only mean something if terrorists couldn't change their weapon of choice.

 

[CPanther95]

Hawaii is the safest state in the country, (by far) for firearm deaths and violence. Of course in Hawaii you just can not jump over state lines and break the rules. Here are their rules. They strike me as extremely reasonable for law abiding citizens.

Most states would never allow their constitutional rights to be denied at the discretion of a local county chief of police.

... and rightfully so.

 

[Nancyg56]

That would only mean something if terrorists couldn't change their weapon of choice.

I know. It is definately a problem that I have no idea how to solve.

 

[longboard55]

Most states would never allow their constitutional rights to be denied at the discretion of a local county chief of police.

... and rightfully so.

Hawaii has 20% the death rate of arizona. How long can we ignore the facts. We are talking tens of thousands of lives a year

 

[CPanther95]

Hawaii has 20% the death rate of arizona. How long can we ignore the facts. We are talking tens of thousands of lives a year

Wow.

Imagine how many lives we could save if we didn't allow people the freedom to speak or protest in public, or how much prime real estate would be available if we banned all churches.

Imagine how many terrorist attacks we could prevent if we didn't need search warrants to search anybody suspected of sympathizing with terrorists - or we could detain them indefinitely until we were satisfied they weren't a threat.

Those pesky constitutional rights sure do get in the way of running a safe, productive government.

 

[pat fan]

But I do not think we can remove the gun discussion though. As long as these weapons are the weapons of choice the discussion will need to happen.

They are not always the weapon of choice. What about airplanes? On 9/11 they used planes. The Tsarnoves used pressure cookers. Guns are not the problem with terrorists. Terrorists are the problem. For me, it's a whole separate discussion from any kind of other gun related issue, whether it's a domestic dispute involving a gun, an accidental home shooting, russian roulette, anything. Completely separate.

 

[longboard55]

Wow.

Imagine how many lives we could save if we didn't allow people the freedom to speak or protest in public, or how much prime real estate would be available if we banned all churches.

Imagine how many terrorist attacks we could prevent if we didn't need search warrants to search anybody suspected of sympathizing with terrorists - or we could detain them indefinitely until we were satisfied they weren't a threat.

Those pesky constitutional rights sure do get in the way of running a safe, productive government.

Maybe we should take away airline pilot licensing while we are at it,
Hawaii has all the rights you mention including the right to own a gun. They just do not let mental patients buy them. So whats you solution, how is doing nothing working out. Lets ask the Sandy Hook parents

 

[CPanther95]

Hawaii has all the rights you mention including the right to own a gun.

Sure, you can own it, you just can't protect yourself with it unless the chief of police says you can.

It's a moot point however. The draconian Hawaii carry laws have already been ruled unconstitutional by the federal courts.

 

[Irish_Mike]

In light of this heinous attack, I have but one request.

Do not let this become another "moment of silence" every year, but allow it to enact change. Sit down with your children, grandchildren, nieces and nephews - and explain to them why this hatred of anyone - straight, gay, black, white, hispanic, anyone - is not right. Teach them and educate them.

 

[elphaba91]

In Australia we had a change to our gun laws after a mass shooting in 1996. We haven't had a mass shooting since. It has significantly lowered gun violence.

However, I am fully aware that our countries are different. Firstly, we didn't have a 'right to bear arms' in our constitution. Secondly, we don't have land borders across which guns can be smuggled. It is much harder to bring illegal guns into the country.

Has it removed gun violence? No, of course not. But it has reduced it. Most homeowners don't have a gun, so we have very few accidental shootings at home. We have much less 'suicide by cop' incidents because people don't have guns. Yes, knives can kill and can cause damage, but not as much. Our 'bad guys' do have guns, but most of them use them on each other. It's very rare that they use them (fire them) on totally 'innocent' people.

I don't think it would work the same way in the US though. Gun ownership is too entrenched in your country's psyche (from an outside perspective anyway).

I could have written this myself.

I just wanted to add that the other issue with introducing similar bans on guns in the States is the cost of a buy-back scheme, which was one of the things that made Australia's ban so successful, would be just astronomical.

I think in Australia there was also a real shift in attitude towards guns and gun ownership after the Port Arthur massacre and a mass realisation that the laws needed to change to prevent this happening again. Yes, there was some backlash (the Prime Minister, John Howard - who was right wing by the way - wore a bullet proof vest when he made the announcement) but it was largely supported by the general public. Now I don't know of anyone who wishes we had more lax gun control.

However, I think for it to work in the USA that realisation had to come a long time ago. The guns and the gun ownership mentality are too widespread now. Maybe if the laws had changed after Columbine things might have been different? Who knows. But I think it is too late for Australia's system to work for you.