Marathon Weekend 2022

I'm preeetttyyy sure I gave myself a compound stress fracture in my foot on Sunday, during my 20-mile longest run (just under 5 hours). That is just about the worst timing with 4 weeks until race day. Going in for x-rays on Monday to see whether I'll be able to run, or just cheer y'all on.
[Reaches for another donut]
This is what I've been saying about all that over-training. It isn't good for you. Better to just slog it out over the course of the weekend and then spend 2 weeks learning to walk again...

(Yes, said very tongue in cheek. I hope the x-rays are negative).
 
SAFD:

Justified: staying onsite. As a frequent visitor to Disneyland before the pandemic, the total immersion factor of staying onsite at WDW helps make WDW different from Disneyland given the obvious similarities that the two resorts share and that Disneyland only has about 10 fewer attractions in its 2 parks than WDW's 4 parks.

Not justified: I have yet to convince myself that I can justify a deluxe resort as much as I love the themeing on many of them.

Will i massively regret *not* wearing a hat/visor for the full? Have sunglasses, but just realized I haven't planned for a visor.
Very possible. I use a visor to help keep the sun out of my eyes when it rises. I choose not to wear contacts and don't carry prescription sunglasses with me during races, so a visor is an absolute necessity for me. I also prefer visors to baseball caps because visors allow for the heat to escape the top of your head. And as someone who spent a few miles in both 2019 and 2020 wearing an ice bag on his head to help keep cool during the race, the visor is much easier to use as a cradle for the ice bag so you're not having to hold it on your head. I was really feeling the heat during 2019 and think that the ice bag on my head starting around mile 23 may have been the difference in keeping me cool enough. At the very least, I think it benefited me mentally and helped me finish faster. Given the heat in 2020, I started the ice bag on my head around mile 13 as a preventative measure given the heat that day.
That is the way I was reading it. Not that I was worried that they would check my exact pace (image of Soup Nazi: "No bling for you! Next!"), but that I had to finish ahead of the sweepers on all 4 races. Not really a concern on the first 3, but a bit of one if too much photo-taking and ride riding on the full.
Basically I'm down to over-thinking and wondering what I've missed, not planned, or incorrectly assumed since I haven't been down there in a while.
The key is just to finish each race and not get swept. I have finished part one of a 10K/Half challenge race behind at least one of the balloon ladies and there was no problem whatsoever. I finished the race and had been ahead of the balloon ladies for the entire race except the very, very end.

I think the key to character photos for slower runners is knowing that you may not be able to get every photo and finish the race. That may require having to choose between photo ops, but if finishing is your main goal, then it's part of your equation especially with challenge races.

I've benefited greatly from the DIS character photo ops text thread sent out during the races. It allowed me to decide which photo ops were more important to me. In one case, I knew that there was a photo op in Epcot that I really wanted so I was able to skip earlier photo ops if I didn't love the line in an attempt to save my time for that photo op near the end of the race. I hope that will be around again this year.
 
I'm preeetttyyy sure I gave myself a compound stress fracture in my foot on Sunday, during my 20-mile longest run (just under 5 hours). That is just about the worst timing with 4 weeks until race day. Going in for x-rays on Monday to see whether I'll be able to run, or just cheer y'all on.
Oof.
What do you mean by compound? That means the bone went through the skin, which I'm fairly sure you would be certain of.
 

Got my last long run in today! 13.1 miles, which I also counted as my SW Virtual half. Nothing over 6 miles for the next three weeks and I'm thrilled! Feels good to have the hardest part over. I'm definitely worried about completing the marathon as I was really hurting at the end today. But I think if I take it really slow I can do it. Good luck to everyone on this weekend's long runs! You got this!
 
I was thinking about driving in from WL for the races. What time do you think we should be aiming on arriving to Epcot so that we're not going to be snarled in traffic?
 
I was thinking about driving in from WL for the races. What time do you think we should be aiming on arriving to Epcot so that we're not going to be snarled in traffic?

The general answer is always "the earlier the better".

For the 5k/10k, you would have to deal with the ramps from World Drive/Epcot Drive closing at 4 am. Not sure how much traffic comes from that direction, but I would expect that you could leave by 3-3:15 and be okay. If you're a gambling person, maybe 3:30--but that might be tight.

For the 1/2 and full--it's a lot more complicated since they will close World Drive offramp and Epcot drive the night before at 10:30, so no taking Seven Seas Drive to Floridian Way to World Drive to Epcot Center Dr. You would need to take a different route--(World Drive to Vista to Bonnet Creek to Buena Vista (the worst road!) to World Drive to Epcot. If you still want to drive, leave early.
 
As someone who rarely wears sunglasses (need prescriptions is a pain) when not running, I highly recommend having them. I was very happy in 2020 because I was running directly into the sunrise from AK to HS (as in it was right in front and impossible to avoid). Even with sunglasses it was hard on the eyes.
 
When is everyone starting their taper? Was going to try one last long run with 12 miles on the 25th and 24 miles on the 26th but having second thoughts. Already completed a 8 and 16, 9 and 18, 10 and 20, and plan on a 11 and 22 this weekend. Just getting worried of blowing a gasket this close to the Dopey with all the hard work. TIA
I'd be very curious about DopeyBadger's take on the taper.
 
I was thinking about driving in from WL for the races. What time do you think we should be aiming on arriving to Epcot so that we're not going to be snarled in traffic?
I'm a BIG fan of driving to the races, even when staying on site... but for WL, nope: I'd take the bus, at least for the half and full. WL gets hit with road closures for the half and full and that could be a mess.
 
I'm preeetttyyy sure I gave myself a compound stress fracture in my foot on Sunday, during my 20-mile longest run (just under 5 hours). That is just about the worst timing with 4 weeks until race day. Going in for x-rays on Monday to see whether I'll be able to run, or just cheer y'all on.

Let us know as soon as you do. Good Luck.
 
The general answer is always "the earlier the better".

For the 5k/10k, you would have to deal with the ramps from World Drive/Epcot Drive closing at 4 am. Not sure how much traffic comes from that direction, but I would expect that you could leave by 3-3:15 and be okay. If you're a gambling person, maybe 3:30--but that might be tight.

For the 1/2 and full--it's a lot more complicated since they will close World Drive offramp and Epcot drive the night before at 10:30, so no taking Seven Seas Drive to Floridian Way to World Drive to Epcot Center Dr. You would need to take a different route--(World Drive to Vista to Bonnet Creek to Buena Vista (the worst road!) to World Drive to Epcot. If you still want to drive, leave early.
I'm a BIG fan of driving to the races, even when staying on site... but for WL, nope: I'd take the bus, at least for the half and full. WL gets hit with road closures for the half and full and that could be a mess.

I think both of you are in general agreement that the two long races is better to bus it. I can understand why, with that road in front of WL being part of the course.

Thank you for the advice!
 
SAFD:
Justified:
-My DVC dues, yikes have cash prices for Disney hotels gotten expensive. Plus, since I tend to spend more time hanging out at resorts and the pool than in the parks while I'm at Disney, I like spending the time at nice resorts.
-Runsdisney events!

Not justified:
-Starting to get that impression about my annual pass. For the past few trips I've only been popping into the parks for a couple of hours a day, unless I've had guests or some big event like the 50th was going on. I might drop it and just stay at the resorts for a few years.
 
I'd be very curious about DopeyBadger's take on the taper.

#1 - Do what your training plan tells you to. You chose that training plan for a reason, and the author wrote it in such a way for a reason. So follow through on the conclusion of what you've been following for the last several months.

With that out of the way, the taper is going to depend on the distance of the race, and the individual. Some highlights, the longer the race distance, the more the volume drops proceeding the race. With little exception, the taper should maintain intensity even though the volume of the plan is dropping.

-Both a 5k/10k require minimal tapering. Typically the volume does not change much, but potentially the last workout prior (3-4 days out) is going to be at a slightly lower volume or extended resting intervals. But since the 5k/10k are short (relatively speaking), it's easier to balance the current volume with being race ready. A taper for a 5k/10k is more about maintaining that sharpened sword.

-A HM taper is usually 2-3 weeks. The volume should fall some during the taper period, but does not need to be as aggressive of a volume drop as a marathon. The intensity of workouts should remain similar up until about 5-6 days from the race. The volume of the hard workouts should drop some with the last workout at a slightly lower volume or extended resting intervals. Depending on the person, some may benefit from strides on the day prior to the event. This has to do with the tightening of the hamstrings and whether the runner is predominately a Type 1 or Type 2 muscle fiber runner. The day before the HM should be no more than 60 min and no less than 20 min. There are some runners who find an off day proceeding the event is better, but that happens less often.

-Beginner marathon runners, or those who have done let's say four or less, should stick with a traditional 3 week taper. The taper should drop in volume each week from peak to something like ~85%, ~75%, and then during race week all the mileage during the week excluding the marathon itself should be between 40-60% of peak. The intensity should remain the same during the taper. The volume of the hard workouts should drop over time. A marathon is much more devastating to the mitochondria than the shorter distances, so we need ample time from the last true hard workout. A good rule of thumb is 10 days out in order to reap the benefits, but recover enough. A shorter intense workout can occur within 5-6 days of the marathon, but it just needs to be a taste compared to the previous hard workouts in the marathon training, and likely an easier workout than you would see at 5-6 days out from a HM. Again, the focus for the marathon should be on recovery more than another hard workout to maintain that sharpened sword. A proper marathon taper has been shown to improve performance by about 3-4%. For a 4:00 hr runner, that's 7-10 minutes of improvement. Depending on the person, some may benefit from strides on the day prior to the event. This has to do with the tightening of the hamstrings and whether the runner is predominately a Type 1 or Type 2 muscle fiber runner. The day before the M should be no more than 60 min and no less than 20 min. There are some runners who find an off day proceeding the event is better, but that happens less often.

-Veteran marathon runners will learn that a taper is not a one size fit all. While the large majority of runners will do best with a traditional 3-week taper, there is data to suggest that some runners excel on a 4-week or 2-week taper. So as you gain more experience and learn more about how your body responds to certain kinds of training, and how much recovery is needed before another run, etc, then you can tinker with the taper to illicit a potential higher gain in overall performance. There are some professional runners who have even found a strange 5-week taper system where they peak super early for the race, then drop volume WAY down, then do some normal training for the last 3 weeks to be their best taper methodology.

Keep in mind during the marathon taper that you are likely to feel sluggish. For most it happens about 4-14 days from the race. Your body is changing over to a mindset of repair/rebuild instead of making new gains. So what may have felt easier just 7-10 days ago, suddenly feels more difficult. This is a marathon taper trap. Do not try to chase that sharpened sword feeling. Your endurance is what you need and it takes far longer for that to truly fade away. If the taper is accurately aimed to race day, then about 1-2 days out from the race is when you're going to start to feel much much better. In fact, I know some runners who don't "feel good" until the morning of the marathon itself. So trust your cumulative training, and don't sabotage yourself late trying to chase one more hard workout in advance of the marathon.

The hard part about studying different marathon tapering dynamics is that it's hard to find research subjects for these studies. In a proper training macrocycle for a year, most runners should limit themselves to two maybe three marathons. So you're really limited on your attempt numbers in the span of say five years. That makes it difficult to find study subjects willing to try something "abnormal" from the traditional 3-week taper because you run the risk of losing that 3-4% performance gain. That's why more often than not, the research on tapers revolves around veteran marathon runners who are looking to squeeze that last ounce of juice from their potential.
 
New race dates added:

2022 Disney Wine & Dine Half Marathon Weekend powered by AfterShokz
November 3 – 6, 2022

2023 Walt Disney World Marathon Weekend
January 4 – 8, 2023

2023 Disney Princess Half Marathon Weekend presented by CORKCICLE
February 23 – 26, 2023

2023 runDisney Springtime Surprise Weekend
April 13 – 16, 2023

Disney Parks Blog post:
https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/b...23-season/?CMP=SOC-DPFY22Q1wo1216210011A&s=09
 
This data might be helpful in trying to come up with a ballpark figure (link). This is the starting position of runners (corrals in 2018) vs their actual finish time.

View attachment 630515

So for instance, runners who had a POT for 4:01-4:30 (which was a 1:24-1:35 10 miler or 1:54-2:08 HM) finished the race at expected time about 20% of the time. And about 50% of runners who had a POT for 4:01-4:30 finished in about 4:30-5:00. So if you consider yourself an average person experiencing the runDisney race, and have other race times of about 5:30 marathon equivalent or less, then you'll finish about 30-60 min slower than your estimated marathon time based on a POT type submission (other personal historical race).

At the extreme end, about 90% of runners in each of the different corrals finished in less than 2 hours compared to their estimate. So for those 4:01-4:30 runners, almost all had finished in 6:00-6:30 or less.

So in value terms, let's say you ran a 2:15 HM recently. That would slot you in the 4:30-5:00 POT bucket in previous races. So if you're average, then assume something like a 5:00-5:30 hour finish. If you're on the extreme end, you'd finish in 6:30-7:00 hours.

The amount of runners who drop back in corrals is minimal in comparison to the whole field, so that part is being ignored in my above analysis.
I hope that this doesn't come across as a completely deranged question, but how much time would you estimate that it would add on to your finish time if you stop for every picture stop? Assuming that I run my expected time which is 4:30, would stopping for every picture
#1 - Do what your training plan tells you to. You chose that training plan for a reason, and the author wrote it in such a way for a reason. So follow through on the conclusion of what you've been following for the last several months.

With that out of the way, the taper is going to depend on the distance of the race, and the individual. Some highlights, the longer the race distance, the more the volume drops proceeding the race. With little exception, the taper should maintain intensity even though the volume of the plan is dropping.

-Both a 5k/10k require minimal tapering. Typically the volume does not change much, but potentially the last workout prior (3-4 days out) is going to be at a slightly lower volume or extended resting intervals. But since the 5k/10k are short (relatively speaking), it's easier to balance the current volume with being race ready. A taper for a 5k/10k is more about maintaining that sharpened sword.

-A HM taper is usually 2-3 weeks. The volume should fall some during the taper period, but does not need to be as aggressive of a volume drop as a marathon. The intensity of workouts should remain similar up until about 5-6 days from the race. The volume of the hard workouts should drop some with the last workout at a slightly lower volume or extended resting intervals. Depending on the person, some may benefit from strides on the day prior to the event. This has to do with the tightening of the hamstrings and whether the runner is predominately a Type 1 or Type 2 muscle fiber runner. The day before the HM should be no more than 60 min and no less than 20 min. There are some runners who find an off day proceeding the event is better, but that happens less often.

-Beginner marathon runners, or those who have done let's say four or less, should stick with a traditional 3 week taper. The taper should drop in volume each week from peak to something like ~85%, ~75%, and then during race week all the mileage during the week excluding the marathon itself should be between 40-60% of peak. The intensity should remain the same during the taper. The volume of the hard workouts should drop over time. A marathon is much more devastating to the mitochondria than the shorter distances, so we need ample time from the last true hard workout. A good rule of thumb is 10 days out in order to reap the benefits, but recover enough. A shorter intense workout can occur within 5-6 days of the marathon, but it just needs to be a taste compared to the previous hard workouts in the marathon training, and likely an easier workout than you would see at 5-6 days out from a HM. Again, the focus for the marathon should be on recovery more than another hard workout to maintain that sharpened sword. A proper marathon taper has been shown to improve performance by about 3-4%. For a 4:00 hr runner, that's 7-10 minutes of improvement. Depending on the person, some may benefit from strides on the day prior to the event. This has to do with the tightening of the hamstrings and whether the runner is predominately a Type 1 or Type 2 muscle fiber runner. The day before the M should be no more than 60 min and no less than 20 min. There are some runners who find an off day proceeding the event is better, but that happens less often.

-Veteran marathon runners will learn that a taper is not a one size fit all. While the large majority of runners will do best with a traditional 3-week taper, there is data to suggest that some runners excel on a 4-week or 2-week taper. So as you gain more experience and learn more about how your body responds to certain kinds of training, and how much recovery is needed before another run, etc, then you can tinker with the taper to illicit a potential higher gain in overall performance. There are some professional runners who have even found a strange 5-week taper system where they peak super early for the race, then drop volume WAY down, then do some normal training for the last 3 weeks to be their best taper methodology.

Keep in mind during the marathon taper that you are likely to feel sluggish. For most it happens about 4-14 days from the race. Your body is changing over to a mindset of repair/rebuild instead of making new gains. So what may have felt easier just 7-10 days ago, suddenly feels more difficult. This is a marathon taper trap. Do not try to chase that sharpened sword feeling. Your endurance is what you need and it takes far longer for that to truly fade away. If the taper is accurately aimed to race day, then about 1-2 days out from the race is when you're going to start to feel much much better. In fact, I know some runners who don't "feel good" until the morning of the marathon itself. So trust your cumulative training, and don't sabotage yourself late trying to chase one more hard workout in advance of the marathon.

The hard part about studying different marathon tapering dynamics is that it's hard to find research subjects for these studies. In a proper training macrocycle for a year, most runners should limit themselves to two maybe three marathons. So you're really limited on your attempt numbers in the span of say five years. That makes it difficult to find study subjects willing to try something "abnormal" from the traditional 3-week taper because you run the risk of losing that 3-4% performance gain. That's why more often than not, the research on tapers revolves around veteran marathon runners who are looking to squeeze that last ounce of juice from their potential.
That's really interesting. Once again, you hit the nail on the head regarding the lack of research available. The data that one can get from a veteran marathon runner can only be extrapolated for the use of a beginner marathon runner. Nevertheless, thank you for the information. I can only imagine that it will help A LOT of the people participating next month!
 
I hope that this doesn't come across as a completely deranged question, but how much time would you estimate that it would add on to your finish time if you stop for every picture stop? Assuming that I run my expected time which is 4:30, would stopping for every picture

First thing to do is to throw away any true notion of how fast you can run a marathon, especially if it is your first one. You'll see race equivalency calculations (like McMillan, Daniels, Hansons, etc.) say that if you can run a HM in X, then you can run a marathon in Y. That's true for the upper echelon of converters, but for the large majority of people that sets up false hopes. Only about 6% of runners actually hit that conversion value seen in classic calculators. And it doesn't matter whether you're a slow runner or a fast runner, the calculation is off for all speeds. See this link for more details (link).

With that being said, it's hard to make a definitive calculation on how long it would take you to stop at every character stop. Because I'll assume you put a 4:00-4:30 estimate which means you're going to start with 12-44% of the field ahead of you depending on whether you start at the front of s2 or the back. Let's assume you start at the front of s2. At the beginning of the race, you're going to see minimal lines comparatively. Because you have very few runners ahead of you. As the race progresses and you continue to stop more and more, those that started behind you will pass you. Some of those runners stop for nothing, some stop for select characters, and others stop for everything. Those that stop for everything will likely stay behind you if you also stop for everything, started ahead of them, and are faster than them. So that's all to say, the lines will start off shorter, and then get progressively longer as more runners catch you. We also know that about 20% of runners stay pretty close to their seeded time. So that's not an insignificant number of runners passing you making the course more congested as you go. Based on the data I posted earlier, I would say it's reasonable to assume an extra 45-75 minutes of time from an ideal performance marathon. That's not including any potential adjustments for adverse weather conditions. That does include the potential for stopping for a theme park ride like TOT. But it's hard to be more accurate than a wide ballpark guess.

I think other runners could more easily give you anecdotal data as to what they perceived to be their ideal marathon fitness level, and how fast they actually fan a Disney marathon with all the picture stops.
 
First thing to do is to throw away any true notion of how fast you can run a marathon, especially if it is your first one. You'll see race equivalency calculations (like McMillan, Daniels, Hansons, etc.) say that if you can run a HM in X, then you can run a marathon in Y. That's true for the upper echelon of converters, but for the large majority of people that sets up false hopes. Only about 6% of runners actually hit that conversion value seen in classic calculators. And it doesn't matter whether you're a slow runner or a fast runner, the calculation is off for all speeds. See this link for more details (link).

With that being said, it's hard to make a definitive calculation on how long it would take you to stop at every character stop. Because I'll assume you put a 4:00-4:30 estimate which means you're going to start with 12-44% of the field ahead of you depending on whether you start at the front of s2 or the back. Let's assume you start at the front of s2. At the beginning of the race, you're going to see minimal lines comparatively. Because you have very few runners ahead of you. As the race progresses and you continue to stop more and more, those that started behind you will pass you. Some of those runners stop for nothing, some stop for select characters, and others stop for everything. Those that stop for everything will likely stay behind you if you also stop for everything, started ahead of them, and are faster than them. So that's all to say, the lines will start off shorter, and then get progressively longer as more runners catch you. We also know that about 20% of runners stay pretty close to their seeded time. So that's not an insignificant number of runners passing you making the course more congested as you go. Based on the data I posted earlier, I would say it's reasonable to assume an extra 45-75 minutes of time from an ideal performance marathon. That's not including any potential adjustments for adverse weather conditions. That does include the potential for stopping for a theme park ride like TOT. But it's hard to be more accurate than a wide ballpark guess.

I think other runners could more easily give you anecdotal data as to what they perceived to be their ideal marathon fitness level, and how fast they actually fan a Disney marathon with all the picture stops.
Once again, thank you for generously sharing your knowledge. It is sincerely appreciated.
 




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