Marathon Weekend 2018

I'm a certified weather geek, and know just enough to get myself into trouble. Below is picture of the forecasted temps at 1 PM on january 5th. Based on
this graphic from the GFS model, it looks like temps are going to be right around 70 degrees which is consistent with most of the weather outlet (accuweather, weather.com, etc) projections. I'll do my bet to keep you posted using everal weather models. Just a tough time of year to dedicate time.

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That's neat. It will be interesting to watch your posts as we get closer to the race.
So we’re going to be off property and will drive ourselves most mornings, but for the marathon we’ll take so long that we’re going to leave the rental car with the rest of the family. I know many Uber to the start and that’s what we plan on doing, but I am new to Uber/Lyft - does anyone have experience with any surge pricing race weekend?
I've never Ubered to the start of a race but there have been times after mile 24 that I really wanted to Uber to the finish....

Still too earlier for weather talk!
There's no such thing as too early.

I am very concerned I have a stress fracture or other injury. :(

Last night before bed I noticed some pain in my left foot but now this morning it's even worse. I had a stress fracture a few years ago on my other foot, and this feels similar.
I hope that it's not a fracture.

I know a couple weeks out from a marathon my mind starts going crazy I analyze every ache as a major injury.
 
At Disney races recently my plan has been " run to the next character stop". My goal is to get a picture with every character that's out on the course when I go by.

For those that are doing Galloway and that stop for pictures how does that impact your intervals. Do you just essentially restart your timer when you leave each character stop? IF you treat the character stops as extended walk breaks do you adjust your other intervals?
 
One issue I have is the run portion of the run/walk.
For example, if you are trying for a 12 minute mile and doing a 30/30 or 1/1 ratio.
That would mean a 6 minute run/6 minute walk.
No matter how you split it up the total is the same, 1/1 ratio.

Contrast that with doing a 12 minute mile with a 3/1 ratio.
That would mean 9 minutes of running and 3 minutes of walking.

To me, the 6 minute run would require greater speed and more effort than the 9 minute run, thus being less fresh at the end.
Of course, this assumes the walk portions will be equal in pace.

That is why I questioned the 1/1 ratio for the pace groups in the 5:15 goal.
I guess it comes down to the pace of the run portion.

I'll try and take a stab at it! I'm not a run/walker. I'm a researcher in Vitamin D who likes to read endurance running scientific articles. So I'm by no means an expert on physiology or the run/walk method. But I'll try to explain it.

Screen Shot 2017-12-21 at 6.40.24 AM.png

So, the 1:1 ratio does require a greater speed as you say. In the above example, the 1st and 2nd set of paces use 1:1. If keeping the walk pace the same (16:00), then the run pace must be a 9:36 in a 1:1 ratio. Whereas, the 2:1 ratio does allow for a slower run pace (10:40).

Also true, that if the ratio stays 1:1, then the paces remain the same regardless of the duration. So a 30/30 for 9:36/16:00 and 180/180 for 9:36/16:00 are both an average pace of 12:00 (5:15 marathon).

The key difference is how the body physiologically responds to these paces at these durations. Different physiologically relevant paces have different responses in the body.

The following chart is from the paper "Interval Training for Performance: A Scientific and Empirical Practice: Special Recommendations for Middle and Long Distance Running. Part I: Aerobic Interval Training" by L. Veronique Billat

Screen Shot 2017-12-21 at 6.46.21 AM.png

The purpose of this paper is actually on doing speed work for continuous runners. But I equate that speed work for continuous runners is the same physiologically speaking as someone who uses run/walk as a running strategy. So this is where the difference between 30/30 and 180/180 comes in for a person aiming for a 5:15 marathon with a 9:36/16:00 min/mile. The 9:36 pace for a 5:15 marathon runner falls around mile pace to 3k pace. Depending on how long you run at this pace determines how the body responds. If you run 9:36 for 3 minutes you'll elicit a different response than 30 seconds. 30 seconds keeps the run under the duration that really pushes the breathing, VO2max response, etc. But running at 9:36 for 3 minutes has a much greater impact on these physiological responses.

Now, the question comes down to the rest period. Can you recover equally well after 30 seconds of Rest vs 180 seconds of Rest? The Rest response appears to not be linear. Rather than recovering at an equal pace dependent on length of duration, it appears the recovery response is more exponential. So the greatest amount of recovery response occurs very quickly. Once you hit about 30 seconds the recovery response starts to tail off. It's one of the reasons that 30 seconds can work well, but 180 seconds may not elicit much additional benefits beyond the 30 second mark. Now if the 3 minutes at 9:36 causes more damage, but the additional 3 min Rest doesn't add significant (it does add more, but at a slower rate than the initial 30 sec) recovery advantages over 30 seconds Rest, then you can see how over the course of a long distance race the strategy might hurt in the end.

Now, this is why run/walk can be so individual. Not everyone's response to paces is exactly the same for a 5:15 marathon goal. Some people's VO2max can be different even though they have a similar goal time. So if the 9:36 shifts to a slower physiological pace, then a different response by their body to that pace. So maybe their 9:36 is more sustainable for a long duration because it's more like 5k pace rather than one mile pace, even though they still have the 5:15 marathon goal pace.

Comparing the 2:1 to 1:1 comes down to where the 10:40 run pace is to the 9:36 pace. Is it 5k vs one mile physiologically? Or is it 10k vs 5k? Now combine where that pace is physiologically to the duration you are maintaining it for. Is the bodies response to 30 second of 9:36 run the same as 10:40 for 1 minute over the course of 100 to 200 intervals (does one slowly build fatigue over time where the other maintains at a steady rate?)? Since Galloway is recommending a 30 sec walk break one thing he is doing is helping runners find a sustainable run pace/duration that can be maintained with an optimal length recovery interval. Again, it's no guarantee and that's why trying lots of ratios and durations helps people find their individual sweet spot.

So when I evaluate run/walk ratios to help runners make a training plan I try to find where their run pace falls physiologically and then how long they are running at it.

Just my two cents and like I said I'm by no means an expert on the subject.

I am very concerned I have a stress fracture or other injury. :(

Last night before bed I noticed some pain in my left foot but now this morning it's even worse. I had a stress fracture a few years ago on my other foot, and this feels similar.

With the holidays, and my insurance, it will be weeks before I can get an x ray.

I'm thinking I will just lay off my feet for the next two weeks and hope for the best.

This goes beyond Dopey though. I had a very special running based trip to South America planned for two weeks after Dopey. I am so worried!

Wishing you the best outcome!
 
I am very concerned I have a stress fracture or other injury. :(

Last night before bed I noticed some pain in my left foot but now this morning it's even worse. I had a stress fracture a few years ago on my other foot, and this feels similar.

With the holidays, and my insurance, it will be weeks before I can get an x ray.

I'm thinking I will just lay off my feet for the next two weeks and hope for the best.

This goes beyond Dopey though. I had a very special running based trip to South America planned for two weeks after Dopey. I am so worried!
Hoping for the best for you, pixie dust your way that with the rest it will heal whatever it is!
 


Also, lots of people who run Galloway intervals can actually prove they can run a 4:30 Marathon ...
I have run a sub-4 hour marathon using run/walk intervals. Adding walk intervals has really made distance running enjoyable for me again. Distance runing became an issue for me when I hit 45 years old without the walk intervals, but it is now a joy once again.
 


I am very concerned I have a stress fracture or other injury. :(

Last night before bed I noticed some pain in my left foot but now this morning it's even worse. I had a stress fracture a few years ago on my other foot, and this feels similar.

With the holidays, and my insurance, it will be weeks before I can get an x ray.

I'm thinking I will just lay off my feet for the next two weeks and hope for the best.

This goes beyond Dopey though. I had a very special running based trip to South America planned for two weeks after Dopey. I am so worried!

Laying off is the best option, unless you can find some sort of cross training that doesn't bother it. I'm doing a lot of recumbent biking for a knee issue. Hoping the best for you!
 
I am not a Galloway run/walk person, but have seriously been considering moving to it for my long runs. To me, I feel that any method that gets you moving and keeps your confidence up and makes running more enjoyable can only be a win. I am as impressed with Galloway runners as I am with people who run straight through. I am a middle of the pack girl at Disney races, and I have been seriously and impressively passed by some hard core run/walkers! I love it! I really don't understand any unnecessary negativity thrown at it as a method. Oh and I am one that likes to have music while I run as well, I didn't think that was something that needed to be looked down on either. Kinda thought that the individuality of running was the fun part, to see how differently people do things to get to the same result (finish X amount of miles). I love being at a race and seeing the different ways people approach things. To each their own I think!

@VAfamily1998 I hope some rest helps you! Never fun to have pain or an injury this close to a goal you work so hard for. Sending good thoughts!!!
 
I do have some advice (from my running coach) for those who, like me, enjoy their run/walk intervals. If you want to make the run segments easier, pick one day every week (or every other week) and do a short run (3-5 miles) with a longer run interval than you regular run interval, but with the same walk interval.

The idea is to improve your VO2 Max by running at the same pace that you generally run on your run intervals, but extending the distance, thereby increasing the body's need for efficient use of oxygen during those intervals. This is what helped me run the sub-4 hour marathon a few years ago running 3-1 intervals. Once/week I was running 10-1 intervals (I worked my way up to that), but any increase in the run interval helps. You will find that your easy pace on those normal run/walk intervals will increase, helping you to run faster without an increased effort.

We are all different, but this really helped me. I still do it - only once/week. But you need to introduce something like this early in your training cycle, so it is too late to add it this year.

Anyone else have other training ideas to help improve run/walk pace or success?
 
@rteetz, another part of marathon history was the Chip-n-Dale Marathon Relay in 2012.
I believe that was the only year they tried that?
EDIT: Oops, just read again about the older relay option.

Does anyone know when they started the first marathon?
I know in 2007 it was a 6:00 AM start time.
I preferred that.
 
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