MAN DO I NEED YOUR HELP!-update post 273

[zumbergc]

what i'm hoping is that with the working second shift, your son will see DGF less. Get her out of his head. He needs to get out of the house too.

Then if he is out of their house, and either living at your house or in apartment without DGF. He will then not see her as much, and start to see things in a different light.

Spend time with his friends, go out with his friends without his GF. Just get a different perspective of his freinds who are not engaged, and just dating, with no current intent on marriage. Just learning how to be on your own, make decisions.

If he can go a week without her in his head, then 2 weeks. Sometimes when your young you enjoy the drama, and excitement of what is going on. Some people thrive on the drama.

Wish you the best of luck.... sometimes its hard to get out of relationship that you know is not working... but you can do it!!

 

[Tinkabella]

Your poor son ! I sat here and read this whole thread and it reminded me so much of my first relationship. I was 16 and he was 19, like your son's relationship...we had tons on drama. I wanted him with me all the time, I threw fits, cried, I built my world around him. If he wanted to see his friends I put on a huge circus and would torment him for days after. Basically I WAS YOUNG. When we broke up I thought my world had crashed. My ex BF was not a bad guy, he was a normal 19 year old who needed to experience life as a young adult. Fast forward a few years...met my husband in university and could not believe how different thing were from the start. Not only was our relationship completely different....I was different, with maturity come self confidence and self esteem. I hope your wonderful son understands that LOVE alone can't make things work, it is simply not enough. Everyone needs to grow and mature and develop a sense of who they are before they can commit to growing a stable relationship. I think of it like building a house. You need both partners to have a stable foundation (self esteem/maturity) or eventually the bricks will crash from the weigh of life's everyday struggles.

OP's son...if you reading this, know that we are not judging you ! I have a TON of respect for you . You sound like a mature young adult who is trying to make a good start in life . Sometimes people start on the same path but end up going different directions. If I could offer any advice it would be this....enjoy life ! Your 20ies are wonderful, formative years and virtually anything is possible. You will never get this time back. In 10 years you will be worried about marriage/kids/ house payments/401k's.....Your 20ies are a time for experiencing the differences that life has to offer. Live alone for awhile, travel if you can, and plot a course that will lead you to the best future possible.

...In case you are wondering....I still run into ExBF and we always have a smile and a kind word for each other.

 

[OceanAnnie]

OP, thank you for the update. I know this is hard on everyone. You and your DS had a great talk. You gave him a lot to think about and he is taking your advice into consideration. That is wonderful, that you have such a good relationship with your DS.

Your poor son ! I sat here and read this whole thread and it reminded me so much of my first relationship. I was 16 and he was 19, like your son's relationship...we had tons on drama. I wanted him with me all the time, I threw fits, cried, I built my world around him. If he wanted to see his friends I put on a huge circus and would torment him for days after. Basically I WAS YOUNG. When we broke up I thought my world had crashed. My ex BF was not a bad guy, he was a normal 19 year old who needed to experience life as a young adult. Fast forward a few years...met my husband in university and could not believe how different thing were from the start. Not only was our relationship completely different....I was different, with maturity come self confidence and self esteem. I hope your wonderful son understands that LOVE alone can't make things work, it is simply not enough. Everyone needs to grow and mature and develop a sense of who they are before they can commit to growing a stable relationship. I think of it like building a house. You need both partners to have a stable foundation (self esteem/maturity) or eventually the bricks will crash from the weigh of life's everyday struggles.

OP's son...if you reading this, know that we are not judging you ! I have a TON of respect for you . You sound like a mature young adult who is trying to make a good start in life . Sometimes people start on the same path but end up going different directions. If I could offer any advice it would be this....enjoy life ! Your 20ies are wonderful, formative years and virtually anything is possible. You will never get this time back. In 10 years you will be worried about marriage/kids/ house payments/401k's.....Your 20ies are a time for experiencing the differences that life has to offer. Live alone for awhile, travel if you can, and plot a course that will lead you to the best future possible.

...In case you are wondering....I still run into ExBF and we always have a smile and a kind word for each other.

I think Tinkabella's post bears repeating. It's sound advice woven into experience. I'm not judging your DS either. I think we have all either been there or seen the warning signs for others in relationships. Experience and history can can reveal a lot.

Sometimes we all can be too close to a situation to see things for what they are. I'm glad your DS is taking a break and moving into his own place. It's a powerful move in taking back his life and future. Whatever the future holds, if he can stand on his own, build security, and have a plan, he has a great start. I'm sure he will enjoy a drama/pressure free zone.

My "first love" had a terrible drinking problem. It would arise on the weekends and towards the end spilled over to weekdays too. Nice guy, but didn't know when to say when. I wasted a lot of weekends catering to him. Watching and worrying over him. How that happened, I don't know. I think I'm pretty smart. But emotions can get the best of you! I'm sure I had my problems too. I was young. He was very handsome and nice. And I thought I was in love. I shudder to think what my life would have been like had I married him.

Real love can wait. There is nothing wrong with slowing things down. I applaud your DS for his decision on no s*x.

 

[EthansMom]

It sounds like your son has a good head on his shoulders... just really needed some unbiased opinions.

The best advice I could give to your son right now would be that he needs to live his life for himself... do the things that make HIM happy. And he needs to set some boundaries with DF and her family. If DS continues to do what THEY want and to roll over to make sure DF is happy, then he'll be setting the tone for the rest of his relationship.... DF and her family will always expect him to do what they want and they will always expect DS's wants to take last place.

It's important that DS be himself rather than the person that DF and her family want him to be.

Your DS may think that this drama is a temporary thing and will blow over once they're married. Unfortunately, it's par for the course. The wedding is not making all of this drama, the people are and the people won't be any different once DS and DF are married... there will just be a different reason for the drama. IMO, the first year AFTER the marriage and the first year after having a child are two of the hardest years of marriage... the year before the marriage was cake compared to those two.

Regarding DS's question about "Do girls really go off their BC?" Yes, they do... especially the younger and imature ones. My StepDad was married to a woman who was a real piece of work. He always let her have her way in all things to keep the peace. When their relationship started going south and he started taking more of a stand for himself, she stopped taking her BC without telling him. She got pregnant and he felt that he had to stay in the marriage even longer to help with the baby. And then he had to deal with the drama after the marriage was over. The ex made his (and his chid's) life miserable by taking him to court as often as allowed over petty stuff and denied him visitation with his child (even going so far as not being home at the time he was supposed to pick up his child)... She used and manipulated him and his child for decades.

And my StepDad isn't the only man I've ever known that had that kind of thing happen to him... it's surprisingly common. I know when my son is old enough that it would matter, I'll be telling him to ALWAYS use protection on his end, no matter what.

 

[Scurvy]

OP - Thanks for the update! I hope that when my son is older that he and I have the kind of relationship that you and your son have. I'm glad to hear that your son is taking the time to really think through all of this. Who knows - maybe his girlfriend really will turn out to be "the one" for him, but hopefully she will do some growing up before they make things permanent. I can remember the drama when I was her age - the difference between 17 and 20 (or older) is huge for girls. I personally don't think any girl is ready to be married when she is still in the drama-filled teen years. And of course her parents aren't doing her any favors. It sounds like she is going to have quite a shock when she finally starts having to deal with the real word and not always getting her way.

I'm a big believer in couples that are "meant to be together". If the two of them really are "meant to be", then waiting a while won't matter in the long run. If they aren't "meant to be", then they shouldn't be getting married now anyway.

 

[cseca]

I just have to chime in and say:

To the mom: Great job for keeping a wonderful relationship with your son enough that he would listen to you! Don't sell yourself short, whatever he decides to do you've done your best to tell him the consequences.

To the son: I'm proud that you're listening to your mom and reading the boards before making up your mind. Good luck with your decision, I don't know if you're a spiritual person but praying always help...

Also, from a personal experience what all PPs have said about living alone and supporting oneself is SO true. Unless you've lived alone before you will never learn about yourself to the fullest. Living with someone be it parents or bf or spouse will require you to compromise AND rely on them to a certain level. When you live alone, you have no one to rely on but yourself (as long as you don't run to your parents for help all the time). That'll make one grow up faster. And to learn how to budget! Oh my... that is so important. Unless your GF knows what it means to budget I'm afraid your marriage won't be off to a good start. They say that the biggest issue in a marriage is MONEY. People get into fights and subsequently divorces because of it. So if you truly intend to continue with the wedding make sure you lay it down with her who is responsible for what. That goes for everything, not just for money (budget). Housework (chores), kids (if you ever want any), etc. And if you two can't agree or compromise on them then you'll have a lot to think about before walking down the aisle.

Like some PPs said, she is young. Sometimes there are mature young ladies but from what we've been hearing she is yet to get there. Make sure to let her know that there is no reason not to wait when she's that young. If you two are meant to be then it will be. Don't make her or her family force you into marriage and then regret it in the end.

BTW, love goes both ways. If you're willing to do all these things to make her happy then she should to. If she only wants to take without giving that's not love...

Again good luck and we wish you all the best

 

[momejay]

I just don't get it. Doesn't this bride to be realize that this is one day in her life? For the same cost of ostrich feathers for the tables, she could probably have living room furnature?
My daughter is 15 & in this "teenage phase" right now where she thinks that as long as we have plastic we have money. The idea that the bill needs to be paid at the end of the month doesn't cross her mind.
I think if they aren't discussing issues with you, even if they are & your opinion doesn't matter, that you should give them a budget to work with. Give them a check for the amount you would have paid for what you wanted for the wedding. Then offer another check as a wedding present, to your son, that they can use to buy furnature or pay for the rest of the wedding.
My brother was in love & married a wonderful girl, but they spent all their money on their wedding & had nothing left, after the honeymoon, to buy household items. If you can't afford groceries, you don't spend $7,000 on a dress you wear once! (Even if you are planning to sell it on Ebay) You never know when your niece will have chocolate covered strawberries all over herself & will hug you from behind!

 

[OceanAnnie]

I want to add that marriage should be a partnership. What does the FDIL bring to the relationship? In all honesty, it doesn't appear to be much. She should want to have some means to provide for herself and/or her future family. What would she do if the marriage doesn't take place? Stay at home and let her parents take care of her? She should have a plan that doesn't begin and end with snagging a man. She doesn't cook, clean, or do laundry? She should be able (and want) to do these things for herself, it comes with wanting to be independent! Declaring that she doesn't want to ever work and the "no household work" stance, would be the biggest turn off ever for me (if I were a man). Being a woman if a man couldn't do those things (earning a living and/or contribute to upkeep of the household) it would be a deal breaker. It wouldn't be a partnership. It would be a lopsided, and unbalanced.

From what has been presented, it looks like your DS would be basically taking on a child. Who wants to work all day and come home and cook and clean while someone (ablebodied!) sits on their rear and eats bon bons all day? Added to the non-contributions she is demanding and full of drama. The very thought of a life with someone like this is the definition of misery to me.

It's pretty clear why the FFIL was pushing her to date your DS. I can imagine the FILs have had quite enough.

I really do wonder what the FDIL brings to the relationship.

 

[horseshowmom]

More support here...

I congratulate the young man for stepping back and catching his breath. I know that's a hard thing to do, but better that than being swept up in a tidal wave. Time is the one thing they've got plenty of right now.

 

[iggbees]

i've been following this for a while, but haven't posted. i don't have any advice about the wedding, but i do have some about the gf.

i'm glad to hear that your son has taken some adult steps in this relationship. moving out on your own is a fantastic way to see whether you want to be with the person you are with, especially at 20 years old. i'll be 26 in a month and live with my boyfriend (of 5 years) who will be 27 soon, in our own place and he still doesn't feel the need to get married just yet. i totally respect his opinion and feel horrible pressuring him to think about it. although, i have to admit that i am thoroughly ready to get married and i know that he is the person that i want to be with.

i didn't meet my boyfriend until i went away to college and even then i didn't meet him until i was 21. i never felt the need to have a high school relationship, let alone get married at that age, because i was so immature then. i also wanted to go to college and do something for myself before thinking about who i wanted to marry. even in college i made immature decisions about who i dated, i once went for a completely arrogant guy who went to an ivy league school and thought the world revolved around him. although i thought he was good looking, i quickly realized that was not the person that i wanted to spend the rest of my life with. when i met my current boyfriend i knew he was the one, because we could never stay mad at each other (one of us would burst out laughing) and he treated me with respect. he was a person that i WANTED to be around, not dread when i saw him because i was afraid what he was going to say or how he was going to act. my boyfriend would never think of telling me what i could and couldn't do and who i could be friends with and vice versa. that would make for a real downer on the relationship, one i know i couldn't handle.

i guess i basically just want to say that at 20 years old, its not the end of the world if he decides that the person he is with is not the right person for him. he may feel pressured to marry them because they are overbearing (and from the sounds of it the parents might have an influence too), but he shouldn't feel the need to settle because he's been with them for a long time. some high school relationships work out, but many don't. i don't even talk to the people from my high school anymore, because i moved out of state and just have no real reason to keep in touch.

tell him to go out and meet new people and then see if this relationship is the one he wants. he may just find someone who appreciates that he is hard working and considerate. good luck.

 

[Pixie Dust for Me!]

OP and son,

OP, you are a much better mom than I would be in this situation. I'd be the one yelling at my son for seeing this girl in the first place. Thank goodness I have time to learn from your example (since my DS is only 10)!

For the son...As someone who married her high school sweetheart (and is still married to him)...please take your time! I met my DH when I was 16 (he was 17). We both graduated from high school, went to college and got married AFTER college. Yes, we waited nearly 6 years to get married. In retrospect, I think we still got married too young! I think we should have waited another 2 years. But we were young, in love and eager to be married. Now, as we near our 20 year mark...we were recently reflecting on our 20 years of marriage. Our first 2 were hard because we both still had some growing up to do. The next 5 flew by with career commitments. The next several were spent trying to have a child. We dealt with bitter disappointment and then were finally blessed with a wonderful child. Now, as we approach 20 years, we are rock solid and have learned how to have fun again as a couple. Marriage is NEVER easy. It takes work, commitment and patience.

A lot of people have posted that they don't believe the young lady (teenager) is ready for marriage. Let me tell you, in no uncertain terms SHE IS NOT! She's looking for the romantic notion of it all and is not ready for the work that marriage entails. Trust me, planning the wedding is really the easy part....staying married, loving one another and raising a child together is the hard stuff (and it isn't for sissies!). Give yourself a gift...take your time and DON'T be talked into or pressured into marriage. Yeah, you love her...but trust me, she's in love with the idea of being in love. You see a lifetime together...she see's the big fancy dress and party. You see a house and maybe children one day....she sees a fancy house that she can "play" in. You see a happy life together...she sees you bringing her flowers and being treated like a princess.

Some have said that she may be irresponsible and try to hold on to you by getting pregnant. She may just do that...or she might "fake" a pregnancy and then say she lost the baby. She might get desperate to hold on to you and do anything. It only shows how immature she is. The fact that she calls you at work on your cell phone and yells, whines or cries (repeatedly), shows that she's still in the temper tantrum mode of a child... not the reasonable "honey, can we talk this over quietly after you get off work" mode of an adult.

I truly feel bad for you. I hope that you take this time for yourself to do the things that a 21 year old young man needs to do. Yes, you are an adult...but trust me, you have some wild (or mildy wild) oats to sow and you should do it now! Don't tie yourself to an immature teenage young woman. Let her grow up first and then you can marry her. You'll both be happier in the long run...and your children will too! You don't have to break things off with her if you don't want to....but, if you love her, give her the time to finish growing up...and then you too can be preparing for your 20th wedding anniversary in about 22 years!

Good luck to the OP and her son,

K

 

[mom2faith]

SO much I could say....

But I would like to write to the OP's son for a moment (I hope you are still reading responses):

1. Yes people do "plan" pregnancies to trap others. A friend of mine did it, and it did not work out for her. Instead, like your mom told you, she is trapped in a lifelong commitment to a guy who can't stand her and she can't stand him. And who suffers? Of course the child does.

2. I was engaged and planning my dream wedding to a guy I was with for 7 years. It was a simple wedding and there was no drama, but one day I looked at him and realized this was not what I wanted. I can go on and on, but he was immature and spent too much money and did not have a stable job....I just realized this is my one and only shot at life, and this is not what I want!! 1 year later I married DH and I could not be happier.

3. DH comes with parents that I often think are the in-laws from hell!! Let me tell you, I love him and I know he did not chose his parents, but red flags before the wedding mean there is more to come. And fighting with In-laws strains a marriage, plain and simple. After 7 years we still are working out the kinks (he is also aware is family is no picnic), but if the relationship was strained before adding the fussy in-laws - well it never would've survived. I would have to say it is our #1 cause of arguments in our house. (And you already argue over money, jobs, etc, add crazy in-laws and you are in for a long haul!!)

Good luck to both of you!!

Keep us posted!!

Amy

 

[cheshireqt]

Thanks OP for posting an update. It sounds like a seed has been planted and just needs to grow. Great job on the communication with your son.

To the OP's son: spend some time with your friends and maybe even get out some on your own. You may find that you have lost sight of who you are and allowed yourself to be defined as something else through your relationship with your GF and her family. Really think about where you want to be 2 years, 5 years and 10 years from now. Really think about who you are and what your hopes, ambitions and dreams are. You may find that marriage is something you want in 5 years, after fulfilling some of those dreams or at least putting the building blocks in place to achieve them. 21 years old with a teenage bride and possibly a kid (I agree this is extremely likely) will make even the most basic of dreams extremely impossible to achieve.

 

[bumbershoot]

I've only read from post 273, didn't even read the original post!

Just wanted to make a suggestion, if he still kind of things that females don't get pg on purpose. If Tom Leykus is still on the air, have him listen to that show. He is rather offensive in many ways, BUT he sure does have good advice for people when they don't want to deal with a pregnancy. No matter what, no matter the relationship or how much you think that the Pill is being taken, use other protection. Double up that protection *no matter what*, if you don't want to be trapped in that way. That goes for women, too...you never know when the pill might fail, so double up.

Tom Leykus is funny...his advice is for people who want to be single and fancy-free, or at least childfree for awhile, but it's pretty much the exact same advice that Dr Laura gives, just in reverse. If you want to stay single and childfree, don't date this type of person. If you want to be married, don't date THAT type of person. If we'd all follow their advice based on what we want out of our lives, we'd be much happier!


Good luck to your son!

 

[disneynewbee]

If it was me I would write a check for what I was going to spend if they used my hall, dj, etc. Tell them that you can only afford what you can afford and so if they want the fancier shindigs they have to pay the difference whether the couple pays it or her parents. Sounds like your future dil is kinda high maintenance hope your ds can afford it. Heck dh and I had to pay for our own wedding and a lot of couples have to now a days so they should be thankful for whatever you can give.

 

[clh2]

Thanks to all who has to nicely shared their opinions, history, examples, and ideas. I guess being mom, sometimes things are taken as seriously as it is taken when given by complete stangers.

I will post more when and if anything happens. Who knows...second shift, renting his own place again and no se*, I might be posting really soon.

Wow - as a "DISmom" I couldn't be more proud

And WOW - your son has really impressed me.

Please do post any updates!!!

 

[momxx5]

Kudos to both you and your son.

I am so happy (as a mom of 3 boys and 2 girls) to see a great open relationship with a 20somthing son and his mom. I hope to have that type of relationship.

I also have to say that once your DS experiences life in his "own" home, the new shift time of his job and some freedom to hang out with his friends, he may find that they are other people in the world worth sharing friendships with, he may find that there are girls/women who behave differently and show him the respect that he deserves. I pray that this is a learning time for him. He has not really had the opportunity to spread his wings and soar.

As for little miss priss, well it is possible that she may wake-up and find a big reality smack her in the face. God forbid anything doesn't come out as planned.

May time be on their side and may they each come to appreciate the best in each other.

(PS DH & I lived together for a full yr before I would even discuss marriage. We were 24 & 29. I think spending a whole year.....the ups, downs, holidays, births, deaths, life.....can really set the tone and show how each one handles and compromises in each situation.)

 

[Smile4Me]

OP Thanks for the update!

Another piece of mom's advice that I've carried around since I was a teenager is "When it comes to se*, its not about being physically mature or ready,,its the emotions that come with it, and being emotionally mature and ready."
At one point she flat out said to me "It can really mess with your head!"

And its amazing how things change when you remove it from the situation!

Keep your heads up and know we're all rooting for you!

 

[Deb & Bill]

To the OP's son, I don't know if you are religious or not, but here is something that I remember when I was planning my wedding to my husband of 27 years.

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always preserves."
-- 1 Corinthians 13:4-7

I hope you find out what you really want to do and it makes you happy.

 

[eeyorethegreat]

This thread has truly scared me. As a Mom of 4 kids ages 9 to 14, I know that marriage is still a bit away for them but I can't imagine the concern-more the pain of seeing your son go through this. I hope that I could deal with something like this as appropriately as you have and moreover I hope I don't ever have to!

OP son, please understand that this isn't about your Mom not wanting you to get married this is about her wanting you to get married to the RIGHT person. There is NOTHING more important to a mother (a parent) than having her child (regardless of the age of that child) be healthy and happy. Mom can see that 1. This relationship is not healthy and 2. If a relationship isn't going to be healthy you aren't going to be happy.

OP son, I am glad to hear that you are taking a step back, moving out on your own, without GF. I have to say ... I don't mention this often to many and here I am posting on a public forum...one of my biggest regrets is that I did not live on my own before I got married- I lived with DH- then my fiancé. Now, our marriage is great we have never ever had the issues that you and your GF are having. Even so I wish that we had each had some time individually to grow and mature , to make it on our own for at least a year before getting married. OP Son, I am so glad to hear that you are taking this step because you really do need it, you need to experience life on your own as an adult and learn the lessons that this experience has to teach you before you make the commitment of marriage. I am also glad to hear that you are planning on taking the VERY mature step of abstaining from S**. And trust me right now your GF is feeling that she has lost control of you (which truly I hope she has she shouldn't control you) and she has one power left, the power to get you into bed and make a baby with you. She has this power and from everything I have read here about the way she conducts herself and her life with you, she WILL use that power. You will have to be stronger than that and stick by your decision to abstain.

OP I wish you the very best in helping your son through this time. Love him as you always have and he will see that you only want the very best for him.

OP son, I am glad to hear that you are slowing down taking a breather and becoming an adult in YOUR OWN right. I know that everyone here even though we have never met you wants the very best for you. We want to hear a happy ending to this story not just for you but also because you represent to us the "possibility" that is own own children. And I can tell you that the parents here who are hoping for you to have a happy life don't want things to continue the way they are! Take care of YOURSELF right now that needs to be your first and foremost responsibility!!